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In the Name of God بسم الله
wahashimi

Was Jinnah a Shia or a Sunni?

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Jinnah wasn't even a muslim as far as I am concerned.  As discussed and proven in other threads the man had an affinity for alcohol, pork, and women.  Thus him being a shia or sunni means nothing.  You cannot be a muslim by name, only by your actions.

wa'salam

we are no one to judge if any one is muslim or not. claming others non muslim is whabhi act.

(salam)

An individual should not be praised because of couple of accomplishments and other deviant behavior ignored. A human, who calls himself a so called Muslims, has a responsibility in front of the ummah. If he wasn't a Muslim than I would have more respect for him. I can post so many references from the Quran and hadiths to prove he wasn't a Muslim. But, I will not dwell into this because some people have a sensitive spot in thier heart for him. Whether he goes to heaven or hell, Allah knows. But this does not mean a munafiq should be praised! (I can easliy prove that he was).

Yes, he did fight for muslims to have thier own land. He was brave in that aspect. Like I posted earlier, partition was not a good decision. Especially for the Shia Muslims. I have posted Ayatollah Khomenei's opinion on that.

Edited by zain1

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I have posted Ayatollah Khomenei's opinion on that.

So how come Ayatullah Khameini praised him and called him a freedom fighter?

Edited by YouthOfAli

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So how come Ayatullah Khameini praised him and called him a freedom fighter?

(salam)

Read bro Ali786 post. Partition was a bad idea, Ayatiollah Khomenei said so also.

Jinnah was part of giving Muslims thier own country, hence is given credit.

Just to let you know, thier would be no Pakistan if the Hindus kicked the British out. Remember, Hindus were the majority fighting the British!

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Just to let you know, thier would be no Pakistan if the Hindus kicked the British out. Remember, Hindus were the majority fighting the British!

Just to let you know, the British would still be ruling India if there was no parition. There were more Hindus that had been bought by the British in the time of the East India Company that Muslims!

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Just to let you know, thier would be no Pakistan if the Hindus kicked the British out. Remember, Hindus were the majority fighting the British!

Just to let you know, the British would still be ruling India if there was no parition. There were more Hindus that had been bought by the British in the time of the East India Company that Muslims!

(salam)

Britain could have left without a partition. Why do you think Gandhi was begging Jinnah not to seperate the land.

If you read Ayatollah Khoomenei's interview "...but said his only minus point was that he did not have sufficient vision. Because Jinnah settled for two-fifths of Indian territory to establish Dar-ul Islam. Had he and the Muslim League waited, in due course the whole of India could have been revived as the homeland it was before the advent of the British". The muslims could have increased in numbers and could have dominated the governement. Who knows, India could of had more Muslims than Hindus right now!

Edited by zain1

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An individual should not be ised because of couplef accomplishments and other deviant behavior ignored. A human, who calls himself a so called Muslims, has a responsibility in front of the ummah. If he wasn't a Muslim than I would have more respect for him. I can post so many references from the Quran and hadiths to prove he wasn't a Muslim. But, I will not dwell into this because some people have a sensitive spot in thier heart for him. Whether he goes to heaven or hell, Allah knows. But this does not mean a munafiq should be praised! (I can easliy prove that he was).

well put!

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If British still contolled India, it would have been a better place than today(compared to Paki). You should know that living in Britain 

From what my father tells me, as he lived in India and then later migrated to Pakistan, it was the British who put all this corruption into the subcontinent in the first place. So I guess no, it would be the same, if not worse.

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Salam Alaikum

hmmmmmmm just a few words...

Everything seems to indicate that Jinnah was a Shia Muslim, except a fancy few judges in a Paki court room!!:D Need i say more?

And

everybody's a sinner, but Jinnah created a state for muslims. Whatever his character/iman was seems to me tried to do whats right for the muslims. give him some slack.

In those days there were all sorts of rumours everywhere, how does one know what kind of character jinnah was? Lots of anti Jinnah movements from the sunnis mullas came about for his sound judgemetn and giving rights to women, etc. they started many rumours against him. All we can say of his fate inthe hereafter is "Allahu A'lam".

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From what my father tells me, as he lived in India and then later migrated to Pakistan, it was the British who put all this corruption into the subcontinent in the first place. So I guess no, it would be the same, if not worse.

(salam)

Actually I edited that part, because I did not want to topic to sway away from partition.

But I will answer it anyways.

Corruption? You know the Indias/Pakis are the experts of corruption. You going to blame the current situation on British?

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Corruption? You know the Indias/Pakis are the experts of corruption. You going to blame the current situation on British?

(salam)

Zain1, I trust my father more than you. He's lived in both India and Pakistan and is a pure desis.

You're a mudblood lol :P

Need I say more? :D

P.s. No disrespect intended.

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Salam Alaikum

I understand bro zain's points, and agree a bit. Sometimes I think it was a plan of British to divide the people. And it may have been better if India had not been separate. On the other hand, who knows what would hav ehappened if India remained one country. We can only guess.

Imam Khomeini's advice may have been good, but wasnt a bit too late? :)

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Britain could have left without a partition.

Why do you think Gandhi was begging Jinnah not to seperate the land.

Britain left Kashmir disputed for a reason. Pretty much the same reason as they created the state of Israel a year later.

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(salam)

Zain1, I trust my father more than you. He's lived in both India and Pakistan and is a pure desis.

You're a mudblood lol :P

Need I say more? :D

P.s. No disrespect intended.

(salam)

I was born in India, still have Indian citizenship...so :P

Lets not be in denial....India/Pakistan probably has more corruption than any other country. That is why both countries are improving at such.........a............slow..............rate.

I understand bro zain's points, and agree a bit.Sometimes I think it was a plan of British to divide the people. And it may have been better if India had not been separate. On the other hand, who knows what would hav ehappened if India remained one country. We can only guess.

Shukran my paki bro :D

Imam Khomeini's advice may have been good, but wasnt a bit too late? 

Like Ayatollah Khomenei said Muslims are to rule. We have Islam on our side, that means Allah also. Who knows, India could have been majority Muslims by now. Why settle for 2/5ths when we could have had the whole, in a peaceful manner. Still repecting other faiths. My opinion, Allah knows.

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Britain could have left without a partition.

Britain left Kashmir disputed for a reason. Pretty much the same reason as they created the state of Israel a year later.

(salam)

Us Indians/Pakis like use that as an excuse because that issue has not been resolved yet. It has been 50 years, but jahils on both sides cannot come to an agreement. It seems the most convenient conclusion is the blame the Britain.

The British left the subcontinent, forgive them for not organizing every little detail before being kicked out.

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I was born in India, still have Indian citizenship...so  :P

My father has Indian , Pakistani and British citizenship so :P

Lets not be in denial....India/Pakistan probably has more corruption than any other country. That is why both countries are improving at such.........a............slow..............rate.

Nowhere have I denied that India and Pakistan have corruption. But it was the British who installed that corruption.

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Nowhere have I denied that India and Pakistan have corruption. But it was the British who installed that corruption.

(salam)

For the sake of argument. Then it was India/Pakistans job to eliminate corruption, but rather has increased since the Britain left.

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Us Indians/Pakis like use that as an excuse because that issue has not been resolved yet. It has been 50 years, but jahils on both sides cannot come to an agreement. It seems the most convenient conclusion is the blame the Britain.

The issue of Kashmir will never be resolved. Because the US does not want it to be resolved.

The British left the subcontinent, forgive them for not organizing every little detail before being kicked out. 

The question is why did they come in the first place? Why should I forgive a colonialist state that ruled over my homeland for 300 years with no justification?

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(salam)

Man you reply fast! Seems like I'm playing a tennis match!

The issue of Kashmir will never be resolved. Because the US does not want it to be resolved.

Now don't blame US for this also :!!!: They weren't even in the picture in the last 50 years, because they don't care. You always want to blame others rather than ourselves.

The question is why did they come in the first place? Why should I forgive a colonialist state that ruled over my homeland for 300 years with no justification?

Fine don't forgive them, blame them for the rest of eternity. By the way, it sounds funny that you won't forgive Britain, but you are living thier right now :!!!:

Double standards :P

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Man you reply fast! Seems like I'm playing a tennis match!

I live on Shiachat.

Now don't blame US for this also  They weren't even in the picture in the last 50 years, because they don't care. You always want to blame others rather than ourselves.

Remind me Zain1, how many UN resolutions have been passed about Kashmir?

Fine don't forgive them, blame them for the rest of eternity. By the way, it sounds funny that you won't forgive Britain, but you are living thier right now 

I don't forgive the government. The British people are nice :D

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Then it was India/Pakistans job to eliminate corruption, but rather has increased since the Britain left.

That I agree with. But the initiation was done by the British. I always say, look for the root of the problem.

P.S. This is my 3,500th post :D

Edited by YouthOfAli

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Remind me Zain1, how many UN resolutions have been passed about Kashmir?

(salam)

We all know UN is a joke.

India and Pakistan can sit down and end the conflict once and for all.

My dream is to unite India/Pakistan/Bangladesh together :cry:

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(salam)

We all know UN is a joke.

And why is that? No prizes for guessing.

India and Pakistan can sit down and end the conflict once and for all.

My dream is to unite India/Pakistan/Bangladesh together 

They can. When India and Pakistan put the interests of Kashmir first, not the interest of their masters.

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We all know UN is a joke.

And why is that? No prizes for guessing.

(salam)

:!!!: You know I was trying to help you out by avoiding the UN, but you asked for it. :!!!:

First UN resolution

U.N.RESOLUTION August 13, 1948.

This is the most significant resolution passed by the UN on the state of Jammu & Kashmir. It clearly states that Pakistan was to vacate its troops from the whole of the state. It also mentions, albeit indirectly, that Pakistan had consistently lied on the question of whether or not its troops were involved in the fighting in Jammu & Kashmir. Once the then Pakistani Prime Minister conceded that Pakistani troops were indeed involved, the UN had no option but to ask for their withdrawal. That the withdrawal never took place, is another story.

I wonder who was the one not listening and lying to the UN first? :P

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What's the source of this by any chance?

(salam)

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/documents/jku...resolution.html

Just to add the recent news!

Pak comes under UN fire for PoK rights violation

New Delhi, Aug 24: Pakistan came under severe attack both at the just concluded United Nation sub-committee on human rights and its sidelines for gross violation of the rights in Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir and maltreatment of people and uprising in northern areas like Gilgit and Baltistan.

Traditionally a battle ground for India and Pakistan for last seven years, the focus this time shifted to PoK with several international groups charging Pakistan with gross human rights violations in the occupied areas.

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You yourself said UN is a joke, so I guess whatever they say is worthless anyway.

(salam)

:!!!: Back peddling huh? :!!!:

Yes, UN is a joke. Even though I can use the UN to make a strong argument against Pakistan!

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Back peddling huh? 

Yes, UN is a joke. Even though I can use the UN to make a strong argument against Pakistan!

You're the one who passed an opinion on the UN not me.

I just used it as an example.

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he belonged to a family which arrived from persia. mainly of ismaili influence. probably the same time the first agha khan arrived in mombay

his family had over the generations in india elements fo hindus, sunnis, shias 12, and khojas (businessfamilies which converted to agha khanism)

later during the change of the century mohammad ali jinnahbhai changed his name to mohammad ali jinnah and even got more attacked to the mainstram islam. he was sunni at the end of his life. but his example of beeing tolerant was great.

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he is dead now, whatever he has done, either good or bad, he has seen it in his grave, why bother to spend time to discuss about his imman, when we don't know about our own imman, in pakistan, its state policy to consider jinnah as a sunni, they want to declare pakistan as a sunni state and how they can take the fact that a sunni state was came into existance because of the leadership of a shia, they will deny it and shia will remember it by holding the majlis at his death annaversary and that stone at khurrasaan immam bargah, will still show him as those who have served the shia community, and as i remember, once in london england, on the occasion of round table conference, he send the message that he can not come there since it was a'shura on that day.

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For those who love taking a swipe at Jinnah's agreed not-so-Islamic-lifestyle-despite-a-Shia-background are only doing because their Indians and their blind nationalism loves taking swipes at anything Pakistani :P GROW UP...this aint 1965/71/whatever

Gandhi's ideas for a unified India were too utopian (and too Hinduism inspired) for me to believe and I really doubt they would have worked at all. Jinnah's were too in the sense that he didnt actually give a clear idea as to how Pakistan would be governed by a certain system, but hey the Quaid won in the end, and here we are still arguing like the 3rd world duffer desis that we are over things that are obvious.

Islam Zindabad

Edited by Suprah

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Aslamo 3alikum,

Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a Khoja Shia Ithna Ashari...

His father was named JINNAH, because he was born because of the dua which his mother made on some Zuljinnah in Lucknow, India..

They used to hold Majlis every year in their house..

The piece of cloth which was used in making the first flag of Pakistan was the cloth in which they used to distribute the sweet after every majlis..

Ahh

There is a very good speech by Zameer Akhtar on this .. I dont know where to get that speech from .. he delivered it 4-5 years ago at Rizvia Imambargah on 8th Rabi ul Awwal..

Wa'Salam

Ali

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