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DaSouljah

Ayatullah khameni - What did he do?

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Salaamun Alaikum,

I have been having discussions with another brother. And he does not like Ayatullah Khameni for many reasons (ie. vetoing, attitude, etc.) And he told me to do some reasearch on him. Can someone name all the good he has done (for Iran and Islam)? Something another leader couldn't have done.

Wasalaam

Abbas

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bismillah

(salam)

well so many ppl didnt  n don't like imam khominei (ra)either n they all thought n still do think he didnt do nothin for iran...BUT they r all wrong n VERY wrong...n alahmdulialh imam khamenie has done aloooot and i love him very much n those who say he hasnt done nothing they r the ones who should go and do some research bout him. n nyways u can never make everyone happpy...but i dunno how can ppl not like him!!!!

Ya Ali

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Aslamo 3alikum,

Also some of the followers of Ayatollah Imam Shirazi (r.a) dont like him, because of what happened to him after his death (at his funeral and all) ...and also some of the followers of Ayatollah hmm montazeri? I aint sure abt the name dont like him, since that Ayatollah is in house arrest......and also many people dont like him because they dont like Iranians  :D ( i met many of them)

hehe ;)

Edited By Peer Syed Sahib on 1033113599

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the best well always be hated, ex, iranians  ;)  IMAMS(PBUT)  ;)  what can we do.

anyways, by THE GRACE OF Allah ALMIGHTY he has been a great huide and leader for the nation of iran and the ummah of islam.

there is too much to write and remember but ill give you a couple examples, when america wanted to attack afghanistan the brother of Agha Kthatami (a muslim reformer) was saying lets attack afghanistan and help america the way turkey helpd against saddam then america will make us rich the same way they did for turkey, but the IMAM said no way. if we had attackd or hlpd more than we did we would still be in afghanistan,

america would have made the war longer and gave us heavy casualties.

then there are the people that want better ties with america but the IMAM sais not until we are strong enough cuz america would embarrass us.

about montazeri tuff.

Ayatollah  Shirazi (ra) , wel Khala Hajar proved it to be fake, and you can ask her to prove it again. (thanks Khala :)  ).

about his past in iran, there are alot of web sites about it and more. ill find a few links and copy paste a few words.

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(salam)

I dont know how she proved it fake, but I heard it from many people, and also saw some pictures, and whole article at shianews.com ..thanks

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bismillah

(salam)

God knows best what is happening in Iran with certain scholars.  

Not only has western human rights group such as Amnesty International reported about the treatment of certain scholars (they have an actual report titled "Human Rights Violations against Shi'a Religious Leaders and their Followers), but also SHIA HUMAN RIGHTS groups.  There are many scholars who have also written about their mistreatment.  Only Allah knows best what really happens.  

Obviously, there are many people out there whose aim is to bring down the Islamic Ummah by disuniting us, and thus "fake" reports have arisen.  However, for us to say nothing is going on and everything is fine....when there is evidence and western groups and muslim news agency (shianews.com), human right groups both shia and non-muslim, and the scholars themselves are telling stories of not only mistreatments, but persecution.....is to be abit  :nono:

The Holy Prophet said: "The one who sees a wrong action done should prohibit it by his deed, if he is capable, of course; and if he cannot do that, he should prohibit it by his tongue, but if he is not able to do even that, he may forbid it by his heart."

Wasa'il-ush-Shi'ah, vol. 16, p. 135

Everyone has an opinion of what goes on, based on the evidence they have seen.  If people feel there is mistreatment against scholars, they have a right to forbid the evil by their tongues or heart.

We must remember that incidents that have been told to occur are against the greatest people among our communit: our scholars.

Imam Hassan 'Askari, the eleventh Imam, [a] said:

"The scholars of our followers (Shi'ah) are the guards of the bounds of Islam. Then, anyone of our followers who undertakes this (duty) is superior to the one who fights in the battle against the Romans, (because this one defends the theological bounds of our followers)."

AI-Ihtijaj, vol. 2, p. 155

Regarding Syed Shirazi  (ra) , it was not only regarding the problems at his funeral, but many other problems during his life.  He lived oppressed and died oppressed.  

It is not only him but many other scholars. There are many...but here are a few names that have had reported some form of violations was carried out against them  (God knows best what really happened):

Grand Ayatollah Sayed Mohammad Sadeq Rouhani

Ayatollah Sayed Hassan Tabataba'i-Qomi

Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri

Ayatollah Mahdavi-Damaghani

Grand Ayatollah Ya'sub al-Din Rastgari

Grand Ayatollah Shirazi

Hojjatoleslam val moslemin Sayed Morteza Shirazi, the second son of Grand Ayatollah Shirazi,

Hojjatoleslam Sayed Mehdi Shirazi, the fourth son of Grand Ayatollah Shirazi

Hojjatoleslam Sheikh Fazel Fazeli

Hojjatoleslam Muhammad Saleh Hedayati

Hojjatoleslam Sheikh Makki Akhound

Hojjatoleslam Sheikh Ja'far Ghani

Sayed Javad Rouhani

Grand Ayatollah Mohammad Rouhani, the elder brother of Grand Ayatollah Mohammad Sadeq Rouhani.

Sheikh Mohammad Reza Mamaghani,

Sheikh Hassan   Aram,

Sheikh Safa Khatib,

Sayed Abolghasem Mojtahed-zadeh and Ayatollah Misbah

....and many others

I am not trying to disunite us here, but i am barely stating scholars names that have reported mistreatment.  Allah knows best what really happened.  With numerous reports by shias, non-muslims, human right groups, and scholars themselves, we cannot blame people (especially us shia) having a thought of what goes on against certain scholars, keeping in mind why shias always try to stand up for Justice no matter where it may be (tragedies of AhlulBayt).

 The Holy Prophet said: "There are two groups of my Ummah that when they are pious, my Ummah will be upright and when they are immoral my Ummah will be corrupt."

The Messenger of Allah was asked who they were, and he answered: "The religious scholars and rulers."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 2, p. 49

May Allah forgive me if i offended anyone (may those people forgive me too), it was not my intention.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and inshallah i will respect all others.... and Allah knows best.

Wassalam

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bismillah  

i just hate it when iranians complain, but i even hate it more when non iranians complain.

some of those scholars would leave the defence of islam and jahad and give power to non mujahid types, and some of those are just fabrications, i really dont care, its you who will answer to your LORD THE ALMIGHTY for your foolishness in talking about subject you know nothing of!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps, the article on shianews.com was not by some islamic reporter it was by a brother in canada( salam alaikum bro lol), so its not grade a,  even you can get an article on, even i can.

wasalam

ps, if some of thing i have heard are true i would have killd them for it, thank Allah our LEADER is forgiving.

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i just hate it when iranians complain, but i even hate it more when non iranians complain.

its you who will answer to your LORD THE ALMIGHTY for your foolishness in talking about subject you know nothing of!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ps, the article on shianews.com was not by some islamic reporter it was by a brother in canada( salam alaikum bro lol), so its not grade a,  even you can get an article on, even i can.

wasalam

ps, if some of thing i have heard are true i would have killd them for it, thank Allah our LEADER is forgiving.

bismillah

(salam)

First and foremost brother sag_IMAM-REZA, i am deeeply sorry if i offended you in any way.  That was not my intention.  May you and Allah forgive me.

i just hate it when iranians complain, but i even hate it more when non iranians complain.  

"O you men! We have created you of a male and a female, and then We made you (into different) races and tribes so that you may know each other.

Surely the most honourable of you with Allah is the one who is most pious among you; surely Allah Is All-Knowing & Aware." (The Qur'an 49:13)

Yes, i am not Iranian.  I have Lebanese background.  Inshallah you have nothing against that since we are all muslims and that we all have a right to express our opinion.

its you who will answer to your LORD THE ALMIGHTY for your foolishness in talking about subject you know nothing of!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I try to obtain as much knowledge as i can on this subject and i  have being extensive research because it obviously worries me that our scholars are being harrassed, tortued and oppressed,just like AhlulBayt(a.s.) were.  You may have more knowledge then me in all areas including this, may Allah reward you for this since "The virtue of knowledge is more beloved with Allah than the virtue of worship." The Holy Prophet pbuh....Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 1, p. 167

I too have seeked knowledge in this particular subject, and i have come to my own opinion.While i repsect your opinion, i hope you can respect mine.

Surely, i will be answering to my Lord, Allah the All-Mighty, the [b:post_uid0]Knower[/b:post_uid0] of all things.  However, i do not believe i am "foolish" when it comes to my views.  I have heard reported incidents from all people including the scholars themselves.  Like i said, i have researched the subject, and i have not let my pride come in my way. When it comes to me forming an opinion, i seek Allahs help, not to let my pride and arrogance come in my way.  

ps, the article on shianews.com was not by some islamic reporter it was by a brother in canada( salam alaikum bro lol), so its not grade a,  even you can get an article on, even i can.

Of coarse a person wrote the article, and yes i know i can write an article to shianews.com. May Allah reward shianews.com for a wonderful job.  The point i was trying to make was that shias, non-shias, westerners, time magazine, CNN, shia human right groups, amnesty international and the SCHOLARS themselves have reported this incident.  Not only the funeral incident but many other incidents.  If you think the funeral incident was a "fake", that is your opinion brother, i will respect that.  To me however, i have a different opinion.  God knows what really happened.  But i am sure, that my view (and many others) cannot be blamed for 'foolishness' especially in light of what i have heard and seen.

Also, it isnt just the funeral incident.  If you take that away becuase you think it is 'fake', then there are many other incidents involving mistreatment to many other scholars who themselves have spoken out about it.  I have already listed a few names in my previous posts.  I tend to believe these scholars when i hear their stories.  You may not, andd you are entitled to your own opinion .  I respect yours, i hope you can repsect mine.

The only reason i speak of these things is because someone raised it, and i believe that some scholars are being oppressed for their views.  

Many people therefore try to express their opinion that something is going on in Iran against certain scholars, and that this is unjust.  Thus as Imam Ali says "May Allah have mercy upon the person who services a right and removes a wrong, or refutes an injustice and establishes justice." Ghurar-ul-Hikam, p. 181 Thats all i ad many others are trying to do brother. Injustice is occuring all around the world, and we shia try to refute this.  For e.g. in Palestine, Checheyna, Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, USA.  

Many people try to follow the Holy Prophets  pbuh words and apply them not only to the above countries but where ever it may occur......even Iran.  "The one who sees a wrong action done should prohibit it by his deed, if he is capable, of course; and if he cannot do that, he should prohibit it by his tongue, but if he is not able to do even that, he may forbid it by his heart."  I, and many others, believe there is injustice and a wrong being done with all the reports against certain scholars, and i try to prohibit this with my heart and tongue.  

ps, if some of thing i have heard are true i would have killd them for it, thank Allah our LEADER is forgiving.

Hmmm.....im not sure if you are talking about the scholars in question.  In that you meant, if the things you heard of what certain scholars did, you would of killed them for it.  Well, unfortunately, some scholars did get KILLED for it (whatever they did).  While others have been tortued, which i see it worse than killing.  While others are put under house arrest, like Saddam has done to my marjei Syed Seestani (may Allah prolong his life) in Iraq.  Lets remember that many of the scholars are marjei who have followers around the world.

So im not sure how 'forgiving' that really is.  Im not sure if you really know the depth of the word 'forgiving'.  I thank Allah that he is forgiving, and that he will establish justice.  

Back on to your opinion that you would 'KILL' the scholars ( including marjei) if what they did was true (perhaps for just having a different view), im not sure if you know the Islamic Sharia, but i would believe that would be considered murder, and you would be accountable for killing all humanity.  Im not sure if you have realised what you just said, that you would KILL certain scholars.  I find that seriously appauling.

I will finish off my post with a famous supplication, which inshallah is granted soon.  

اللهم انا نرغب اليك في دولة كريمة تعربها الاسلام وااهله وتذل بها النفاق واهله وتجعلنا فيها من الدعاة الى طاعتك والقادة الى سبيلك وترزقنا بها كرامة الدنيا والاخرة

O' Allah! We eagerly desire that You assign us to the just, fair Islamic government, (the which is really the rightful government of Imam Mahdi, may Allah hasten his reappearance). Through his auspicious government, thou reactivate and dearly love Islam and its followers while thou humiliate hypocrisy and the hypocrite. And, in that period, include us among those who invite people unto Thy obedience and lead them to Thy path of guidance; and, endow us the honour and grandeur of both this world and the next.

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 91, p. 6

Once again sag_IMAM-REZA, i am sorry if i offended you, please forgive me, that was not my intention.  May Allah bless you and all of us.

Wassalam

\

Edited By Ya Ali on 1033283527

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bismillah  

A Brief biography of

Ayatullah al-Udhma Sayyid Ali Khamenei

"Right from the assassination attempt on my life, I had a feeling that Allah had chosen me for a great task for which I had prepared . At the time I did not know the nature of the task. However, I had no doubt that I would be ready to shoulder a great weight in His way for the sake of the revolution and in the service of you, Oh people.

1. Birth and Lineage

His Eminence Ayatullah al-'Udhma al-Haj as-Sayyid 'Ali al-Husaini al-Khamenei (May Allah prolong his life) was born in 1939 in the Holy City of Mashhad, Iran, in a respected scholarly family.

His father, Ayatullah al-Haj as-Sayyid Jawad, was amongst Mashhad's erudite 'ulama (clerics).

For years on end, he used to lead Fajr (morning) prayers at the Guharshad mosque and dhuhr (midday) and 'Isha (evening) prayers at the Bazaar-e-Mashhad mosque. He was a well-known preacher.

His mother was the daughter of Sayyid Hashim Najafabadi (MirDamadi), one of the well-known 'ulama of Mashhad. She was a chaste and honourable woman, who had knowledge of religious injunctions. She had very high moral principles.

2. His Childhood

Ayatullah al-'Udhma Sayyid 'Ali Khamenei lived his childhood under the care of his father, who was a loving parent and committed to bringing up his children in the best way. He spared no efforts in teaching them. Those years were very hard on Sayyid Khamenei because of poverty. He said, " I can recall that sometimes we had nothing to eat. At dinner time, my mother used to take the money which my grandmother gave me and my brothers and sisters, to buy milk and raisins for us to eat with bread."

3. His Education and Studies

At the age of five, Ayatullah al-Udhma Sayyid 'Ali Khamenei and his elder brother Sayyid Muhammad were sent to Maktabkhaneh (Qur'anic classes). Then they were enrolled into a religious primary school by the name of 'Dar ut Ta'lim e Diyanati'.

After he finished the primary school course, he attended evening classes in a state school, without the knowledge of his father, and obtained a certificate. He then enrolled in a secondary school for two years where he obtained a certificate.

As for religious studies, he studied Arabic grammar at the religious school. He read some of the books from "Jami' al-Muqaddamat", which are Arabic syntax books, under the supervision of his father. At the age of fourteen he joined the Sulaiman Khan school to study religious sciences. After completion of the study of Arabic grammar and the preliminary religious sciences he studied some of the Intermediate religious stuides (Sutuh) till the end of Lum'ah (concise but comprehensive text of Fiqh). Subsequently he joined the Nuwwab Religious Seminary to complete his Sutuh level of studies at the young age of sixteen.

This led to his attending Bahthil Kharij (graduation classes) under the supervision of Ayatullah al-'Udhma Sayyid Milani.

Ayatullah al-'Udhma Khamenei in addition to Fiqh and Usul also learnt and taught Islamic Philosophy, Rijal (Biography of Narrators of Holy Traditions), Diraya (Science of Comprehension of Traditions), Astronomy and Tafsir (Quranic Exegesis). He studied under eminent scholars and jurisprudents like Ayatullah Mirza Javad Agha Tehrani, Ayatullah Hakim, Imam Khomeini, Ayatullah al-'Udhma Burujardi and 'Allamah Tabatabai.

Ayatullah al-'Udhma Khamenei spent most of his student days in Mashhad. In 1947 he also visited the Holy City of Najaf where he studied for two years. In 1958 he migrated to Qom where he studied for six years.

4. Teaching Career

His Eminence Ayatullah al-'Udhma Sayyid Khamenei started teaching early in his student days. Whatever he learnt with his God-given ingenuity and great devotion, he taught with complete mastery.

He expalins, "I started teaching right after I graduated from the primary school, during the time of my religious studies at the Islamic seminary. I supervised the learning of two elderly students, who were reading the book "Sarf -e-Mir". Up to 1958, at which time I started living in Mashhad, I used to teach Arabic syntax and grammar, figures of speech, principles of jurisprudence and jurisprudence.

In Qom I also combined study with teaching. After my return from Qom to Mashad in 1964, teaching was one of my main occupations. During these years, and until 1977, I supervised students at the level of advanced sutuh, teaching Makasib (an advanced profound text of Fiqh) of Sheikh Ansari in jurisprudence and Kifayah in usul (an advanced profound text on principles of Jurisprudence) and 'Aqaid (beliefs)."

Ayatullah al-'Udhma Sayyid 'Ali Khamenei obtained a licence for ijtihad (deduction of legal judgements) from his teacher, Ayatullah al-'Udhma Hairi in 1974, after attending bahth ul-kharij for more than fifteen years.

Throughout his political career after the victory of the revolution, as testified by his colleagues who pursued academic discussions with him, he never abandoned his research and teaching. He would manange his time skillfully to engage in study and research especially in the field of Fiqh.

5. His Struggle from 1962 Onwards

A great part of his life has been dedicated to struggle, either through his writings, speeches, or taking up arms, especially when the late Imam inaugurated his Islamic Revolution in 1963. A detailed description of his struggles would require several volumes. However, a brief outline follows.

Responding to the call of Imam Khomeini (May his soul rest in peace) in 1962, the centre of religious learning, seat of knowledge and heart of jihad in Qom assumed an invigorated role. With courage and zeal, 'ulama and students alike took it upon themselves to disseminate the messages of the Imam and other religious authorities to every corner of Iran. Their instructions and calls were printed and circulated widely through the support and help of all popular forces. This new found vigour and zeal spread to the other centres of theology in the country, especially the Islamic seminary of Mashhad.

Ayatullah al-'Udhma Sayyid Khamenei (May Allah prolong his life) played a decisive role in this awakening. Alongside his activities in Qom, he strengthened his bond with the 'ulama and students of Mashhad. Counting on the activities and support of the 'ulama of Khurasan, he succeeded in mobilising theology students in a better way.

His fiery sermons exposing the treachery of the regime and widespsread activism against the oppressive Pahlavi rule led to his arrest and imposition of harsh treatment.

He was forced to do menial work, kept in solitary confinement, insulted and severely humiliated, threatened with death and subjected to other tortures in jail.

After his release from detention, Ayatullah al-'Udhma Khamenei decided to settle in Mashhad instead of going back to Tehran or Qom. He took up teaching as his prime concern. He gave classes in Qura'nic commentary, specially tailored for theology students, and other classes for university students and youth. He used these classes as a platform to disseminate revolutionary ideas, a rallying point for revolutionaries, and a centre for awakening. These classes turned into an axis of popular sentiments and Islamic dissent.

These activities in the fields of knowledge, teaching, jihad and service of the people contributed to Ayatullah al-'Udhma Khamenei's becoming, with time, a focus of jihad in Mashhad. People came to see him from far flung places in Iran. He in turn had contacts with the people in all areas.

Ayatullah al-'Udhma Khamenei thus, commanded the respect of the Iranian people for his integrity, morality and courage. Invitations from many bodies and institutions in Iranian towns and cities such as Isfahan, Kirman, Yazd and Tehran were raining down on him to come and give lectures and talks. He spared no efforts to make use of all occasions to disseminate Islamic revolutionary ideas, tell the truth about the regime's practices, and encourage people to adhto the path of jihad and revolution.

Besides his lectures, the books he either wrote or translated gave life to revolutionary ideas and fervour. Books like the Treaty of Imam Hasan (peace be upon him) The Future is This Religion's, and The Role of Muslims in India's Awakening played a great role in educating the youth and grooming them for revolution.

After the departure of Ayatullah al-'Udhma Burujardi in 1970, Ayatullah al-'Udhma Sayyid Khamenei embarked on the task of promoting Imam Khomeini as a Marj'a, (religious authority); he thought the time was right for such a move; the years 1968 to 1971 witnessed the building of peaceful revolutionary culture. The youth were still taking their first steps in the realm of revolutionary Islam.The 'ulama became their most deadly weapon. The latter did not miss the opportunity of spreading pristine Islamic knowledge and sciences amongst the youth, using every available medium, be it the pulpit of the mosque, private classes, free and open discussion sessions, or publishing books and leaflets. Sayyid Khamenei calls this period the " years of clandestine activities."

As he was keen on educating revolutionary cadres, enlisting the support of trusted elements, and establishing contacts with activists, he accepted an offer to combine teaching with the task of leading prayers, i.e. being the Imam of the congregation.

Capitalising on the strength the Islamic movement had achieved , it was thought fit and timely to create organised Islamic cells, headed by the 'ulama and those well-versed in jurisprudence and politics instead of ordinary people or politicians. The first of these cells was set up, headed by the late Imam Khomeini and supervised by revolutionary ulema in Mashad.

The Mujahidin 'Ulama League was born; its emergence was a prelude to the founding of the Islamic Republican Party after the revolution.

The activities of the League were responsible for mobilising and organising millions of people in marches and demonstrations during the period 1977 to 1978. Sayyid Khamenei's role in establishing the League was pivotal. It is worth noting that the Savak prevented him from leaving the country for ten years from 1965.

His exile lasted till 1978, the year when the masses took the upper hand so much so that matters went out of the hands of the regime. Availing himself of the turmoil into which the ruling establishment was thrown, Sayyid Khamenei returned to Mashhad to continue his jihad with a vengeance.

6. During and After the Revolution

1. Membership of the Revolution Command Council

Besides the leader, the Revolution Command Council played a major role in administering the revolution and eventually rendering it triumphant.

2. Member of Imam Khomeini's Reception Committee

3. Representative of Imam Khomeini in the Revolutionary Council in the Defence Ministry

4. Commander of Revolutionary Guards

5. Imam of Tehran Friday (Juma'h) Prayer

6. Member of the Islamic Consultative Council in the first term.

7. Imam Khomeini's counsel in Supreme Defence Council

8. President of the Republic for two consecutive terms

7. His Leadership

After the sad demise of the founder of the Islamic Revolution, the Council of Experts on 4th June 1989 unanimously elected him to the Leadesrhip post of the Islamic Revolution and the Muslim Ummah.

During his wise leadership he has succeeded in discharging his responsibilities in the best manner and steers the revolution on the same pristine path trodden by the late Imam Khomeini. It is no wonder for he is one of the disciples of the Imam.

We pray he continues his firm but wise leadership till the reappearance of the Awaited Saviour of mankind, the Original Leader of the Global Islamic Revolution, the Holy Imam al-Mahdi (may our souls be sacrificed for him)

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bismillah

salam alaikum wa rahnat'ALLAHI wa barakatuh

"O you men! We have created you of a male and a female, and then We made you (into different) races and tribes so that you may know each other.

Surely the most honourable of you with Allah is the one who is most pious among you; surely Allah Is All-Knowing & Aware." (The Qur'an 49:13)

Yes, i am not Iranian.  I have Lebanese background.  Inshallah you have nothing against that since we are all muslims and that we all have a right to express our opinion.

Habibi i said what i said out of love for you, from what i have heard on iranian news sources some people on that list that you gave are anti-islamic revolution, if they get their way wether they want it or not(one i have even heard from many sources wants it) the islamic rebublic would fall, then slowly iran would become another saudi or iraq, it will take longer for iranians to lose their country but right away all support to HIZBALLAH and other Mujahideen would be cut, it your a** im worried about then irans.  

I try to obtain as much knowledge as i can on this subject and i  have being extensive research because it obviously worries me that our scholars are being harrassed, tortued and oppressed,just like AhlulBayt(a.s.) were.  You may have more knowledge then me in all areas including this, may Allah reward you for this since "The virtue of knowledge is more beloved with Allah than the virtue of worship." The Holy Prophet ....Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 1, p. 167

I too have seeked knowledge in this particular subject, and i have come to my own opinion.While i repsect your opinion, i hope you can respect mine.

shame on you for comparing IMAM KHAMENEI to the corrupt nasibi khalifs, shame. this reminds me of people who revolted against HAZRAT AMEERAL MOMENIN  (as), ponder about it, they had sources just like you do, and just like you they thought they were right.  

Many people therefore try to express their opinion that something is going on in Iran against certain scholars, and that this is unjust.

my uncle took me to a house of a scholar, i wont tell you his name or much about him, he has powers believe it or not, a very lovely man, he too is under house arrest. as i spoke with him i almost fell in love, until he opend his mouth about politics and how the aid to palestine should stop and how aid to HIZBALLAH should stop, and how iran should have a democracy. there are more Holy shmucks like him, and they deserve to be underhuse arrest for not knowing what the heck they are saying when it comes to politics and for not knowing what affects it can have.now some have said and done worse this man has.  

Back on to your opinion that you would 'KILL' the scholars ( including marjei) if what they did was true (perhaps for just having a different view), im not sure if you know the Islamic Sharia, but i would believe that would be considered murder, and you would be accountable for killing all humanity.  Im not sure if you have realised what you just said, that you would KILL certain scholars.  I find that seriously appauling.
 

and in the QURAN we are told that if a group rebels against an islamic govt, we can kill them.

remember how many alema heads our IMAM MAHDI (may Allah hasten his reappearance) will cut off.

salam alaikum wa rahmat'ALLAHI wa barakatuh

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image

the above is the man that made our century

there are many more Montazeris in the world, May Allah ALMIGHTY save us from their foolishness.

Translation of Ayatollah Khomeini Letter Dismissing Montazeri

The text of Ayatollah Khomeini's historic letter was recently printed in Abrar.

Tehran ABRAR 22 Nov 1997, page 2.

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.  To Mr. Montazeri.

My heart is broken and filled with blood now that I am writing a few words to you.  Perhaps one day the people will realize the facts by reading this letter.

In your recent letter to me, you said that, in accordance with the Shari’ah, you give priority to my views over your own.  I consider God my witness when I point out the following issues:

Since it has become clear that after me you are going to hand over this country, our dear Islamic revolution, and the Muslim people of Iran to the liberals, and through that channel to the hypocrites [Mojahedin-e Khalq], you are no longer eligible to succeed me as the legitimate leader of the state.  You, in most of your letters, speeches and stances, have shown that you believe the liberals and hypocrites should rule in this country.  It is so clear that your remarks have been dictated by the hypocrites that I did not see any point in sending a reply.  For instance, thanks to your speeches and written work, the hypocrites took advantage of your stance in defense of their ilk to promote a number of their comrades—who had been condemned to death on charges of waging an armed struggle against Islam and the revolution—to positions of authority.  Can you see what valuable services you have offered to arrogance?  On the issue of the murderer Mahdi Hashemi [a supporter and relative of Ayatollah Montazeri, who was later executed], you considered him to be the most religious person on earth.  Despite the fact that it was proved to you that he was a murderer, you kept sending messages to me to spare his life.  There are so many other examples, similar to that of Mahdi Hashemi, that I cannot be bothered to mention them all.

You no longer have the power of attorney on my behalf.  Tell the people who bring you gold and money to take them to Mr. Pasandideh’s [Khomeyni’s elder brother] residence in Qom or to me in Jamaran. Praise be to God, you yourself will not have any financial commitments from this date.

If, in accordance with the Shari’ah, you do consider my views to be superior to yours (which certainly the hypocrites will advise you that it is against your interests to do so; and no doubt you will become busy writing things which will further deteriorate your future), then you should listen to the following words of advice I am giving you.  It breaks my heart and my chest is full of agonizing pain when I see that you, the fruit of my life’s labor, are so ungrateful.  However, by relying on Almighty God, I give you the following words of advice, and it will be up to you whether you make a note of them or not:

One: Try to change the members of your bureau so as to avoid feeding the hypocrites, Mahdi Hashemi’s clique, and the liberals from the sacred charity funds donated to the Imam.

Two: Since you are a gullible [sadeh lowh] person and are provoked easily, do not interfere in political matters, and maybe then God will forgive you for your sins.

Three: Do not write to me ever again, and do not allow the hypocrites to pass state secrets to foreign radio stations.  Four: Since you became a mouthpice of the hypocrites and your speeches have conveyed their wishes and letters to the people via the mass media, you have inflicted heavy blows on Islam and the revolution.  This is a great act of treason against the unknown soldiers of the Lord of the Age, may our souls be sacrificed for him, and against the sacrifices made by the illustrious martyrs of Islam and the revolution.  If you wish to save yourself from hell fire, you had better confess to all your sins and mistakes and maybe then God will help you.

I swear to God that from the start I was against choosing you as my successor, but at the time I did not realize you were so gullible.  To me you were not a resourceful manager but an educated person who could benefit the religious seminaries.  If you continue your deeds I will definitely be obliged to do something about you. And you know me, I never neglect my obligation.

I swear to God that I was against appointing Mahdi Bazargan as the first prime minister, too, but I considered him to be a decent person.  I also swear to God that I did not vote for Bani-Sadr, as the president either.  On all these occasions I submitted to the advice of my friends.  In the midst of my pain and suffering, I wish to address our dear people from the bottom of my broken heart:

I have made a pledge with my God not to forgive evil individuals ever, if I am not obliged to do so.  I have made a pledge with my God that pleasing Him [God] is much greater priority than pleasing my friends and other people.  If the entire world were to rise against me, I would never abandon justice and the truth.  I do not care about history and current developments.  I am only interested in performing my religious duties.  In addition to my pledge with God, I have promised the decent, noble, and honest people to inform them of the facts when the time is appropriate.  Islam’s history is full of instances of treason by its prominent figures against Islam. Try to make sure that you are not influenced by the lies broadcast by foreign radio stations.  These radio stations dictate their lies with so much joy and enthusiasm these days.  I beseech Almighty God to grant patience and tolerance to this old father of the dear Iranian people.  I beseech God to forgive me and to take me away from this world so that I no longer have to experience the bitter taste of my friends’ treachery.  We all submit to God’s will.  We have no power without God’s will.  Everything comes from Him.  Wishing you peace: Ruhollah al-Musavi al-Khomeyni; dated: Sunday 6 Farvardin 1368.

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bismillah

(salam)

mashallah, sag_IMAM-REZA, very well done.

I really find it strange how can people doubt about Imam Khomeini (ra) or Imam Khaminei or the Islamic government in Iran.  Just look at Hizbullah, they are a mini Irani government in Lebanon and Allah(swt) was pleased with them and He made them defeat their enemies.  And look at all the other shi'i jihadi groups who arent following wilayatul faqih.

I dont plan to do any fitnah or anything like that but at first i didnt use to believe in wilayatul faqih but Allah(swt) guided me after i looked at this world and who is pleased with Allah and who Allah is pleased with and i couldnt find except Hizbullah and the Islamic Republic of Iran.  And some brothers proved to me al wilayah using science and it was simply beautiful and anyone could have got convinced.

And I just wanted to remind you of this hadeeth:

...The enemy of your enemy is your friend...

Iran and sayed ali khaminei are the enemies of Israel and USA. And they,according to the hadeeth, should be our friends. So do as this hadeeth says and avoid talking about our 'alims.

wa salam

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In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

sag_Imam_Reza, very well said, I have noticed that the Islam of America (i.e. the opposite of the revolutionary Islam of Muhammad(S)) has become more and more prevalent and that "believers" are becoming more and more confused - including some of the Ulema.

The faction of the Hujjatiyyah (the group that Mr Shirazi and others belong to) seem to be gaining strength outside Islamic Iran and Lebanon where the Party of Allah (Hizbullah) promote the true Islam, the revolutionary Islam.

This is a direct attack on the true Islam by forces that are loyal to the "Shaytaan-e-Buzurg" (Great Satan) - as stated by our beloved Imam al-Khumayni(A).

I was very distressed to find a thread basically set up to instigate name calling on Imam Khamenei(HA), the Leader of the Muslim Ummah, the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen.

Previously on this forum, there were people who were badmouthing other Ulema this is becoming one of the biggest faults within the muslims in the west, and it is something which is created by America and her allies to keep us divided and squabbling amongst each other.

For the first time since the very short government of the Imam Hassan(A), the believers have a situation where we have a government of honour and dignity, where Allah has given us the means - via the system of Wilayah - to move the true Islam forward.

Without the Wilayah System, there would be no Hizbullah, there would be no Islamic Resistance anywhere, and the Islam of Muhammad(S) would have been relagated to the "Mosque" in much the same way the the highly revolutionary truth that Jesus Christ(A) brought down with him was rendered impotent by the priests of the Roman Empire.

Any person who rejects the system of Wilayah - which is the true revolutionary Islam of Muhammad(S), and claim that this is an "innovation" by Imam Khumayni(A) are in fact providing tacit support for the enemies of Allah and the enemies of the true Islam, even though they may not actively work against it.  This is based on very simple Islamic rulings.

Let me elaborate:

We know that Islamically, and this is something for which there are many proofs, and the event of the 10th of Muharram and the martyrdom of Imam al-Husayn(A), his family and companions and the imprisonment of Imam as-Sajjad(A), Sayyedah Zaynab(A) and the other women of the family of al-Husayn(A) lend even more strength to this argument:

If someone does not rise up against a despotic and oppresive system, but remains silent in the face of oppression then they are providing tacit support to the oppressor.  We do not follow the religion taught by Paul who betrayed Jesus Christ(A) and said that "we should turn the other cheek" in the face of oppression, never.

Did Imam al-Husayn(A) not say "Hayhaat Min adh-Dhillah!" (We will never tolerate humilation).

At this current time the believers have a single leader who we can turn to, and who guides the believers towards the truth, and forbids them the falsehoods, and yet we choose to follow the leaders who turn us away from truth and take us towards falsehood.

The choice is simple: there is the Islam of Muhammad(S), and there is the Islam of America.

The system of Wilayah, the system that Hizbullah follows, and the system that has been able to destroy the combined world army in the first gulf war, and that has humilated and thrown the Zionists out of South Lebanon and will ultimately release al-Aqsa and all of Palestine from the clutches of Talmudic Racism (i.e. Zionist).

Why is it that the west trembles at the mention of the name "Hizbullah"?  Because they know it is the truth.

Anyways, I know that I will have upset a few people by saying what I have - but the bottom line is - it is the truth - search yourself and you will know it to be true - research it - read about it - ask questions - it is easy to get hold of me if you want to ask me questions - but there are many people who know far more than me and can give you far more elequant answers than I can.

Do not waste time rising to the distractions that the enemies of Allah place before us - let us unite under the banner of the Wilayah and break the global arrogance that is engulfing the world - an arrogance that every person is tired of - Muslim and non-Muslim.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

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Guest YA ZAHRA

Assalaamu Alaikum

I have one question:

Is the oppression of Shia Ulama [b:post_uid0]acceptable[/b:post_uid0] because they have a different opinion than that of Ayatollah Khamenei?

Edited By YA ZAHRA on 1033428088

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shame on you for comparing IMAM KHAMENEI to the corrupt nasibi khalifs, shame.

I did not compare Ayatollah Khamanei with the caliphs.  I compared the tragedies that happened to AhlulBayt (obviously much much bigger and thus hard to compare) with the tragedies of some scholars.  Im not sure if you have seen torture marks on people, but it isnt a pleasant sight, trust me.  

this reminds me of people who revolted against HAZRAT AMEERAL MOMENIN (as) , ponder about it, they had sources just like you do, and just like you they thought they were right.

Firstly, me pondering and speaking out against the treatment of scholars in Iran, is not “revolting”.  Imam Ali a.s. always wanted to hear the poeples complaints against his government, so he can take action.  He always answered peoples questions.  He used to finish his sermon and address the people’s problems personally.

And it isnt the same.  You cannot compare ‘Imam’ Khamanei with Hazrat Ammeral Momenin a.s..  Imam Ali a.s. answered peoples questions.  How dare you say that me questioning the treatment of scholars in Iran is equal to the revolting agaisnt Imam Ali a.s.  Iran unfortunately is not infallible.  Iran can committ mistakes.  The shame must be on you.    You are now equating millions of muslims (including the scholars) of revolting against Imam Ali a.s. just because they are worried about the treatment of scholars.  Thus it is you who are equating millions of muslims to the corrupt nasibi khalifs.

I did ponder about it.  Alhamdulilah, before i was misguided.  I was basically following a tunnel vision, not believing a word people say that was happening to scholars.  I asked many people, scholars and asked Allah swt for help.  Alhamdulilah, with Allah swt help i have not let my pride, arrogance in the way for surely “there is an extremely uncomfortable place in hell for those who are arrogant” Imam Jafar Sadiq as.  I have an opinion brother, which i feel is right.  You have a differing view.  I guess only Allah swt knows.  

there are more Holy shmucks like him

Hmm....brother i feel sorry for you.  Calling scholars,mujtihads,marjei and millions of muslims around the world (therefore including me) a “HOLY SCMUCK”.  I’ll let you call me holy schmuck, its ok.  However i must remind you that “nothing is more ornamental than courtesy” Imam Ali a.s.  

But lets get back onto those Holy Schmucks, the scholars including marjei.  I have never and will never call Syed Khamanei or anyone else for that matter a holy schmuck.  However, if someone is in power, and something wrong happened under his power, am i not allowed to ask him whats going on.........ohhhh thats right....that is rebelling, revolting against the Islamic government.  Brother, may these scholars or should i say “holy schmucks forgive you on the day of judgement.  Must you be reminded of the status of scholars?

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and they deserve to be underhuse arrest for not knowing what the heck they are saying when it comes to politics and for not knowing what affects it can have.now some have said and done worse this man has.

House arrest......its sad brother.  Not only would you kill this scholar, but you would aslo put them under house arrest.  Its funny....really.  Can you please give me the Islamic ruling on house arrest, especially when someone gives his/her opinion on Islamic Politics or religion for that matter.  That means, if i dont follow your view on Islamic Politics and what is going on with the oppressed scholars, that means i should be put under house arrest???

Whoever helps out the Islamic Ummah, i love and respect.  This includes Iran, Hizbullah, my scholar Syed Seestani and all the scholars.  The scholar in question (in your story) has his views, and i may not agree with him, but that does not give me the right to put him under house arrest!  However, its unfortunate that you intend to mean anyone who has an opinion against your political view should be under house arrest because  for

not knowing what the heck they are saying when it comes to politics
 I guess only you do.

Im thinking, did Imam Ali as put people under house arrest, or did used to treat pows, and slaves as better as he would treat himself.  And they are pows!  These people are scholars!!  They have an opinion in all areas of Islaimc politics.  I guess next, is that anything that does not relate to Syed Khamaneis fiqh, those scholars must be put under house arrest.................................hmm hang on. Its unfortunate mistreatment to certain scholars has happened with regards of their differing opinion of Tatbeer in Ashura.

and in the QURAN we are told that if a group rebels against an islamic govt, we can kill them.

Firstly, people are NOT rebelling against Iran.  I definately am not.  I am merely raising questions and want Iran to improve.  Does that mean, under Islamic Law, that because i have a different view on Islamic politics that i must be put to death?  Does that mean if i hear of news that scholars are being mistreated, and i protest against this, i must be killed and put under house arrest? Hmmm......well, why dont you come kill me now.  

I am not a rebel.  When someone does good for the Islamic Ummah, i applaud them.  When someone does something bad, i protest against them.  The Holy Prophet said: "The one who sees a wrong action done should prohibit it by his deed, if he is capable, of course; and if he cannot do that, he should prohibit it by his tongue, but if he is not able to do even that, he may forbid it by his heart."  Wasa'il-ush-Shi'ah.  Am i not allowed to prohibit this wrong action, as i believe it is occuring and many others do as well, with my deeds, tongue.  Well i cant can i!  Because you will kill me or put me under house arrest, since this is your Islamic Law.  Therefore, i will surely prohibit it by my heart.  Surely, Allah knows what is in peoples hearts.

Many scholars have been raising their voices to certain incidents.  Both the scholars who are under house arrest (for their differing views) and scholars “outside house arrest”.  Arnt these “Holy schmucks” as you put them allowed to do so?  For e.g.

Grand Ayatollah Kazem Shariatmadari himself was placed under house arrest. Grand Ayatollah Shariatmadari died in June 1986. His supporters were prevented from holding a public funeral and he was buried secretly in the middle of the night in a remote place.  Now, lets put aside what he did or said which lead to his mistreatment.  But isnt it a rite for every muslim to have a proper burial rite....let alone a marjei??

Its incidents like these that lead people to speak out.  And surely people did of this incident.  I would of.  

These events led Grand Ayatollah Mohammad Reza Golpaygani to write the following to Grand Ayatollah Khomeini:

"the true arbitration of [the quarrel] between Your Excellency and Ayatollah Shariatmadari ... is in the hands of Almighty God. I deem it necessary to express my intense regret over the events of the burial, which has occurred without the required ceremonies and paying of respects and the covert burial [of his body] in an unsuitable place. I expect now that you will personally provide recompense ... for the insults which have been directed at him and his position as marja-ye taqlid".

Hang on..Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Golpaygani, who was the supreme religious authority of the Shi'a world after the death of Grand Ayatollah Khoei, who supported the Islamic Revolution (as i do), but when something happened he rose up, spoke out against it.  Does that make him a HOLY SCKMUCK???  Does that mean he should of been put under house arrest or even killed, as you would like to do??

I am not revolting.  I am not rebelling.  I am merely speaking out when something wrong happens.  This is what many scholars do, and have done, and have unfortunately paid the price for such action, simply because they were following the words of the Prophet (saws) when he says "The one who sees a wrong action done should prohibit it by his deed, if he is capable, of course; and if he cannot do that, he should prohibit it by his tongue, but if he is not able to do even that, he may forbid it by his heart."

This was an incident that occured in 1986.  I believe many incidents have taken place since then against scholars, who have done nothing whatsoever, but merely express their own opinion.  Im thinking, would Ayatollah Mohammed Golpaygani have said anything if he saw what happened to Syed Shirazis body at his funeral.  Lets take that away since people think its “fake”.  What would Ayatollah Mohammed Golpaygani have said about all the house arrests, the mistreatment and the tortue that is going on to many scholars.  But then again, he would be a holy Schmuck.

 

remember how many alema heads our IMAM MAHDI (may Allah hasten his reappearance) will cut off.

Yes Imam Mahdi (may Allah hastenhis reapperance....since his government will surely be just) will cut off ulema heads.  But does this give you and other ulema the right to start it now.  Obviously you would love to start now, because you have grasped all knowledge, and no one is allowed to have a different view to yours.  How do you know that it wont be the scholars closest to you and me??!  Well, you obviously dont.  So, lets leave the cutting off of heads of our scholars to Imam Mahdi  (may Allah hastenhis reapperance), and lets try to focus on the fact that it might be our heads, and thus try to improve ourselves.

Shabbirh -

If someone does not rise up against a despotic and oppresive system, but remains silent in the face of oppression then they are providing tacit support to the oppressor. We do not follow the religion taught by Paul who betrayed Jesus Christ(A) and said that "we should turn the other cheek" in the face of oppression, never.

Did Imam al-Husayn(A) not say "Hayhaat Min adh-Dhillah!" (We will never tolerate humilation)

TRUE INDEED.  We will never tolerate humiliation.  We must stand up against oppression where ever it may be happening.  Can a bit of oppression happen in Iran, are they sinless????? No they are not.  Imam Mehdi (may Allah hasten his reappearance) government is.  We may not speak against Imam Mahdis government, since his is just.

Lets see if oppression/corruption can happen in Iran or in any Islamic government

The Holy Prophet said: "There are two groups of my Ummah that when they are pious, my Ummah will be upright and when they are immoral my Ummah will be corrupt."

The Messenger of Allah was asked who they were, and he answered: "The religious scholars and rulers” Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 2, p. 49

The Holy Prophet said: "There will come a time for my Ummah when their rulers will be cruel, their scholars will be greedy and have little piety, their worshippers (will act) hypocritically, their merchants will commit usury and conceal the defects of their buyings and sellings and their women will be busy with the ornaments of the world. Hence, at this time, the most vicious of them will dominate over them, and their good doers will invocate but they will not be answered” Bihar-uI-Anwar

It sure can.

May Allah forgive me if i have offended anyone, that was not my intention.  I am barely stating my opinion, and inshallah, we are not disunited by such opinions, since it is USA/Israel and the enemies of Islam main goal to disunite us.  

 

Wassalam

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786-110

(salam)

1 very important point I would like to add.....a quote from the late Sayyid Khomeini.. and he says "Anyone who governs a country is responsible for all oppression that happens within the country regardless of whether he has knowledge of it or not, so therefore Shah was an opressor and a tyrant" (This is not verbatim..it is only my translation of the inaugural speech delivered by his eminence).

I can't ellaborate, because I'll get banned, so much for freedom of speech.

Imam Ali  pbuh said "O' Kumayl, Say the truth in all circumstances"

Wasalaam

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(salam)

The faction of the Hujjatiyyah (the group that Mr Shirazi and others belong to) seem to be gaining strength outside Islamic Iran and Lebanon where the Party of Allah (Hizbullah) promote the true Islam, the revolutionary Islam.

This is a direct attack on the true Islam by forces that are loyal to the "Shaytaan-e-Buzurg" (Great Satan) - as stated by our beloved Imam al-Khumayni(A).

[b:post_uid0]Shabbirh[/b:post_uid0]What do you mean to say?? that the Late Ayatollah Al-Udhma Imam Shirazi(ra) was from the party of Satan (naudubillah) or what???

I considered to him to be the most learned marji' of his time...and I was at some site, it indicated the report from some American agency, that the [b:post_uid0]Fatwas of Ayatollah Shirazi(ra) kept the American govts. away from attacking Iran[/b:post_uid0]

I dont know how can you say that Ayatollah Khameini is true, and all others so many Ayatollahs are/were from the party of Satan..(may Allah forgive us) ???

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Grand Ayatollah Kazem Shariatmadari himself was placed under house arrest. Grand Ayatollah Shariatmadari died in June 1986. His supporters were prevented from holding a public funeral and he was buried secretly in the middle of the night in a remote place.  Now, lets put aside what he did or said which lead to his mistreatment.

Salam o Alekum,

I just wanted to point out that I remember seeing the interview of Ayatollah Shariatmadari in which he admitted his mistakes and said something like "mun sharminada am" (I am sorry...).

I think it is important to look at what "mistakes" these ulema commited and why they had to be put under house arrest.

As far as "house arrest" it self, the example I remember is when people of Madinah had surrounded his house and put the 3rd Khalifa Uthman under vertual house arrest. (Note: I am just giving an example from history and not comparing Khulfa with Ulema)

Also Late Ayatullah Sheerazi was not under house arrest. I have seen photos of him visiting places (before his death).

Ya Ali, putting Shariatmadari and Montazari in your list has weakened your case as they were both condemned in the time of Imam Khomeini (ra). This has thrown you in the camp of those who were against Imam Khomeini (ra) himself and the Inqilab.

Khuda Hafiz.

Edited By Orion on 1033474784

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image

can there be such a thing as love with an old man, the sweetest man these eyes have seen

may Allah bless him with the sadaqa of the masoomeen (as)  and grant him the best of the places in jannah

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786-110

(salam)

Orion Posted on Oct. 01 2002,08:06

Shariatmadari in which he admitted his mistakes and said something like "mun sharminada am" (I am sorry...).

U gotta be kiddin mate...you know too well that they can make a man speak chinese with torture methods. Many people in the Middle East have confessed to crimes that they haven't committed due to torture methods.

P.S Iran isn't infallible

N.B Shariat Madhari vouched for Khomeini when he was going to be executed by the Shah before he was exiled.

Wassalaam

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(salam)

I dont know how can you guys critiza such great personalities like Grand Ayatollah Imam Muhammad Shirazi, and Grand Ayatollah Shariat Madari...

If those great Ayatollah could be sinfull, and wrong, and from the party of Satan, the please don take it harsh to say such words for Agha Khomeini and Agha Khamenei, as well, since [b:post_uid0]ALL[/b:post_uid0] of them were the GRAND AYATOLLAHS...

I just cant get, how can you guys be like this!!

I didnt mean to criticize Agha Khomeini or Khamenei, but for me, it is also not good to criticize such great ulemas like Imam Shirazi and Agha Shariat Madari....

What was their sin??? just that Agha Shirazi got some kinda conflict with the [b:post_uid0]politically more powerful leader than him? (Agha Khamenei)[/b:post_uid0]

or what did Shariatmadari do?? just because he wasn't with the [b:post_uid0]politically supreme leader of his time?[/b:post_uid0]..

Although Agha Khomeini and Khamenei both were Grand Ayatollahs, so I think the only think which differenciates them was that both were politically more powerful...

and for me that doesnt matter....none of our Imam got that Power..except Imam Ali....

nor our Imams (as)  were elected by any Ijma of scholars or by voting...

anyways..

ma salama

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Salam Alaykom,

Ya Ali, putting Shariatmadari and Montazari in your list has weakened your case as they were both condemned in the time of Imam Khomeini (ra). This has thrown you in the camp of those who were against Imam Khomeini (ra) himself and the Inqilab.

Orion, i know what he did, and yes i know he admitted to certain things even though it is easy to make people confess to things.....Like i said, does that mean if i protest against his treatment of his burial rites, does that make me a rebel, or revolting against the islamic government.  

What i am saying in terms of Ayatullah Shiariatmadari, is exactly what Ayatullah Golyapaygani said, that he was ashamed of his treatment.  Ayatullah Golaypaygani knew the disagreement between him and Ayatullah Khomeini, but he said he will leave it in the hands of Allah swt.  He still made sure that he (Ayatollah Shariatmadari) should have rights.

"the true arbitration of [the quarrel] between Your Excellency and Ayatollah Shariatmadari ... is in the hands of Almighty God. I deem it necessary to express my intense regret over the events of the burial, which has occurred without the required ceremonies and paying of respects and the covert burial [of his body] in an unsuitable place. I expect now that you will personally provide recompense ... for the insults which have been directed at him and his position as marja-ye taqlid".

I too like to EXPRESS MY INTENSE REGRET!!!!!  So i guess you are throwing Grand Ayatullah Golaypaygani in this group as well??!!

I do not care who condemned who, does that mean that if Ayatullah Khoemeini condemned someone, therefore Allah swt has condemned them??.  I stand up for the rights of muslims, that is all!  Like Ayatollah Golaypaygani did.  He did not care what the marjei did, he knew what he did, he left the disagreement between him and Ayatullah Khoemeni in the hands of God.  

Does that mean i and also others like Ayatullah Golaypaygani am against Ayatullah Khoemeni and therefore becuase of that against God...astagfriallah??!!

But alhamdulilah, at least i will be in a [b:post_uid0]just[/b:post_uid0] camp!

You say Syed Shirazi was not under house arrest, like people say that the funeral incident is a "fake" and that is your opinion, many others believe in the contary.  The point isnt about Syed Shriazi being under house arrest, the point is there is a problem in Iran concerning the mistreatment of scholars!!!!!! What about all the other scholars...  You can debate all you want, but there are instances of mistreatment.  This includes house arrest, tortue and continous harrassment.  

As far as "house arrest" it self, the example I remember is when people of Madinah had surrounded his house and put the 3rd Khalifa Uthman under vertual house arrest. (Note: I am just giving an example from history and not comparing Khulfa with Ulema)

Hmm, well what is funny is that certain scholars that are put under house arrest are not even given TRIAL!!!!!

House arrest is not a punishment under Islamic Law, especially not for having differing political view.  Alhamdulilah i havent been put under house arrest......well not yet.

Ya Ali, putting Shariatmadari and Montazari in your list has weakened your case as they were both condemned in the time of Imam Khomeini (ra).

I did not put Ayatullah Shariatmadari in my case....Ayatullah Golaypaygani did!  Like Ayatullah Golaypaygani stood up for the rights of Ayatullah Shariatmadari, i will also stand up for other oppressed Ulama and their rights.  In Islam, all people have rights.  This includes normal people, muslims, scholars and prisoners.  

SCHOLARS that were part of the revolution, that helped it and formed it, that CREATED it are also raising their hands in forms of protest against certain incidents.  PLS GET THIS THROUGH YOUR MINDS:  if i protest, it does not mean i am against the country, it simply means i am trying to establish JUSTICE, FORBID EVIL, ENJOIN THE GOOD (Furoo-e-deen).  

No offence to all........i will not post anymore in this topic , since it looks like it is disuniting us and the fact that i am busy with studies.  Trust me i am not 'chickening out', i can write all day and night, but i have better things to do than engage in debates on politics....i am also scared that one of you is going to come and put me under house arrest, because i am a "holy schmuck" (as saq_Imam-Reza put i) and eventually kill me...  :P

Also, i am sick of repeating myself....and receiving replies that i am against the islamic government, therefore i should be killed, how dare you say anything against Iran etc..etc..etc..Its a bit like how the sunnis argue.  They believe that their caliphs were not sinless

(i am not implying certain people are like caliphs, just giving a practical e.g. in terms of how ppl argue), but when someone dares to say anything against their caliphs that they committing a sin/oppression, they jump in the air screaming you are against God!!.....I will leave Allah to judge.

I am not against Iran.....becuase then you are saying that Syed Golaypaygani is against Iran and many other marjei, even those today that are not under house arrest.........I, like many others, am against "wrong".  If someone is oppressed, i will try and raise that persons right, by speaking against that oppression.

Please people, do not let your pride come in the way.  The truth hurts, Iran is not sinless.

Please people, listen to what YA ZAHRA said.  He/she put it so easily, so nicely, unlike me.....even if he/she does not agree with me, YA ZAHRA raises a good point:

I have one question:

Is the oppression of Shia Ulama acceptable because they have a different opinion than that of Ayatollah Khamenei?

And also like AbdulHujjah said......Imam Ali (as) said "O' Kumayl, Say the truth in all circumstances".....exactly like Ayatollah Golaypaygani did!

I WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO..............REMEMBERING a quote from the late Sayyid Khomeini (thanx AbdulHujjah).. and he says

"Anyone who governs a country is responsible for all oppression that happens within the country regardless of whether he has knowledge of it or not, so therefore Shah was an opressor and a tyrant" (This is not verbatim..it is only my translation of the inaugural speech delivered by his eminence).

Wassalam

p.s. pls forgive me for any offence.....i am sorry.  Inshallah, we are all blessed by Allah swt and are guided.

Edited By Ya Ali on 1033479079

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Salam o Alekum,

Look, there is a big difference between you and Ayatullah Golaypaygani. He was a graet alim and Marje. He has the right to raise his objections with another Marje. Don't forget that (if I remember correctly)  it was Ayatullah Golaypaygani himself who prayed "Namaz e Janaza" for Imam Khomeini (ra) and was accepted as a leading Marje Taqleed after him.

Also when you say "so many scholars" you should remember that the Majority of Shia Ulema today are with Inqilab.

There were people who betrayed Imam Ali (as), Imam Hassan (as) and others. It is human nature that not all people agree with something. I am almost sure people will raise doubts when our Imam (ATF) comes.

Khuda Hafiz.

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(salam)

We had a similar thread on the old ezboard forum that I would recommend checking out.  I believe Bro. socrates and Sis. Hajar provided ample proof that Ayatollah Shirazi  (ra) was not under house arrest.  This was admitted in the Jewish-run Financial Times newspaper.

The people who are spreading these rumors were enemies of the revolution from the beginning.  Imamiyah.org, which I believe is run by the Imamiyah organization in Pakistan, has fueled these rumors.  They are regarded many in Pakistan as Shi'ah-wahabbis and opponents of the revolution.  

It's imperative that we investigate the source of these reports before accepting them as truth.

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Salam o Alekum,

Look, there is a big difference between you and Ayatullah Golaypaygani. He was a graet alim and Marje. He has the right to raise his objections with another Marje. Don't forget that (if I remember correctly)  it was Ayatullah Golaypaygani himself who prayed "Namaz e Janaza" for Imam Khomeini (ra) and was accepted as a leading Marje Taqleed after him.

Also when you say "so many scholars" you should remember that the Majority of Shia Ulema today are with Inqilab.

There were people who betrayed Imam Ali (as), Imam Hassan (as) and others. It is human nature that not all people agree with something. I am almost sure people will raise doubts when our Imam (ATF) comes.

Khuda Hafiz.

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Salaam alaikum,

When saying this we still need to place Iran under the spotlight and ask why are so many Shia Ulama being oppressed?

The first question is are the ulema being oppressed?  We shouldn't believe gossip and slander without checking into it.  Spreading it, is even worse than listening to it. It was an outright lie that Sayid Shirazi(ra) was ever under house arrest.  If that was a lie, what else is untrue?  We have to research these allegations and not be so gullible.

In iran today, there is difficulty spreading the Marji3ia of a Shia Alim, if he doesnt agree with the fiqh of the Wilayat Al-Faqih leadership.

That is just bunk.  Do you know what fiqh is?  All the marja have their own risalahs and their followers are free to choose whichever marja they want and to follow him on fiqh matters.  None of the marjas have the exact same ideas on fiqh, there are always some minor differences.  Most of the marjas have their own websites.  And you say they are having difficulties spreading their Marji3ia?  Sayid Khamene'i has even recommended that people in Iran follow someone other than him. He has said that there are enough marjas for people to choose someone other than himself.  I believe this is because his position puts certain time restraints on him, and he isn't able to be as accessable to his Muqallid as he would like to be.

The differences between some of the Scholars is based on political ideology, not on fiqh matters.  If there are differences, they can express their ideas, but to try and undermine the government, which some of them have done (both directly and indirectly) is not allowed.  To associate themselves with counter-revolutionary groups, is also not allowed.  There is no government in the world that tolerates this. Imam Ali(as) didn't tolerate it either.  What do you think his war with Muawiyya was about?

WaSalaam, Hajar

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Salaam alaikum,

When saying this we still need to place Iran under the spotlight and ask why are so many Shia Ulama being oppressed?

The first question is are the ulema being oppressed?  We shouldn't believe gossip and slander without checking into it.  Spreading it, is even worse than listening to it. It was an outright lie that Sayid Shirazi(ra) was ever under house arrest.  If that was a lie, what else is untrue?  We have to research these allegations and not be so gullible.

In iran today, there is difficulty spreading the Marji3ia of a Shia Alim, if he doesnt agree with the fiqh of the Wilayat Al-Faqih leadership.

That is just bunk.  Do you know what fiqh is?  All the marja have their own risalahs and their followers are free to choose whichever marja they want and to follow him on fiqh matters.  None of the marjas have the exact same ideas on fiqh, there are always some minor differences.  Most of the marjas have their own websites.  And you say they are having difficulties spreading their Marji3ia?  Sayid Khamene'i has even recommended that people in Iran follow someone other than him. He has said that there are enough marjas for people to choose someone other than himself.  I believe this is because his position puts certain time restraints on him, and he isn't able to be as accessable to his Muqallid as he would like to be.

The differences between some of the Scholars is based on political ideology, not on fiqh matters.  If there are differences, they can express their ideas, but to try and undermine the government, which some of them have done (both directly and indirectly) is not allowed.  To associate themselves with counter-revolutionary groups, is also not allowed.  There is no government in the world that tolerates this. Imam Ali(as) didn't tolerate it either.  What do you think his war with Muawiyya was about?

WaSalaam, Hajar

Assalaamu Alaikum

Dear sister hajar thank you for your response.

I think the mere fact that Sayyid Shirazi's son has lash marks on his back after completing his khariji studies on the concept of wilayat al-faqih is proof enough. This is however another issue and i personally dont want to go into it.

Let us try to reach some common ground. Would u agree that there are some Ulama who claim to be oppressed? or is this also mere gossip and untrue? Because if u think there are no such claims then the objective of this discussion has become little.

On a second note, i hope i do know what fiqh is, but perhaps u can enlighten me. Please review what i said because i did not mention fiqh on its own, i was trying to mean the fiqh of wilayat al-faqh leader often becomes the law and hence problems arise between the Islamic ruling of the Marji3 and the ruling of the land. Other examples are the concepts of Wilayat Al-Faqih and Wihdat Al-Wujud which have caused problems and even violence from behalf of iranian officials in an attempt to stop ulama from having different opinions on these matters.

The example of Imam Ali (as) waging war on mu3awiya is problematic in our topic. I dont think this is what u mean but one reading it would think u are suggesting some of the ulama in qom are comparable to mu3awiya.

Wasalaam

Edited By YA ZAHRA on 1033611655

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Salaam alaikum,

I think the mere fact that Sayyid Shirazi's son has lash marks on his back after completing his khariji studies on the concept of wilayat al-faqih is proof enough. This is however another issue and i personally dont want to go into it.

So you just want to throw something out and not have it challenged.  It proves absolutely nothing.  How did he get the lashes, for what reason, when, and who lashed him?  

Would u agree that there are some Ulama who claim to be oppressed?

I believe there are some ulema who make such claims. I also believe there are even more people who exagerate every little thing, and make false claims about oppression.  

The example of Imam Ali (as) waging war on mu3awiya is problematic in our topic. I dont think this is what u mean but one reading it would think u are suggesting some of the ulama in qom are comparable to mu3awiya.

The comparison is not as far fetched as you may believe. Those who are creating fitna at this critical time in our history, are doing a great disservice to Islam and the Ummah.  

WaSalaam, Hajar

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Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

I considered to him to be the most learned marji' of his time...and I was at some site, it indicated the report from some American agency, that the Fatwas of Ayatollah Shirazi(ra) kept the American govts. away from attacking Iran

What fatwas by ayatollah Shirazi kept america from attacking Iran?

I think we should respect the scholars, these arguments are not necessary.

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