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wahashimi

Karbala and Shaam

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Salaam Alaykum,

Is what Bibi Zaineb(AS went through in Karbala and Shaam the most difficult test ANY female would have gone through EVER for ALL TIME, past present and FUTURE?

Wasalaam

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(bismillah)

I'm sorry, are you asking a question, or are you just stating a statement?

If its a question, then thats a very interesting one. It was a very difficult thing to indure. But in Islam, there is no character that tasted pain more than Imam Ali whos entire life after the prophet became filled with pain and sarrows.

(salam)

Edited by NoorFatima

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Imam hussein (as) was the blood and hadrat zeinab (as) was the tongue of the mission

in islam the one who speaks has it harder its the more difficult of the two

she did something very difficult

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(salam)

As her name says: The pride of her father

She did everything to uphold Islam...you be amazed if you read more on her life.

You cannot forget her mother, Lady Fatima tuz Zahra the leader of the women of paradise, sayyidatul nisa ahlul jenna

Wassalam, Sarah

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Yes, It was the toughest to be faced by any human being

Imam Zayn al-Abidin(as) said "On the night of 11th Muharram I saw my Aunt Zainab praying the night prayers and it was the first time I saw her praying sitting(position) due to extreme grief, sorrow, pain, exhaustion"

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Salaam Alaykum Bros and sis,

The reason I ask this is because on many occassions I have heard ppl saying things like

"If a momin woman was raped multiple times in her life, and had to raise illegitamate children, at the same time she kept her hijab and kept her religion, if she was abused as a child by her own parents, and yet she still loves Allah(swt), surely isn't that more than what Bibi Zaineb went through?"

To be honest I didn't have an answer. This brother was referring to the many women in Yugoslavia and Palestine and other places around the world. He also showed me a video of this Bosnian Hijabi girl, she must have only been in her mid 20s, she was crying and saying basically, "If the world wont help us then please at least send us contraceptives to protect us from the gang rapes we recieve from soldiers every day". When I saw that video I swear it really killed me inside.

To be honest, I really am not sure nemore. I mean I have heard certain things that there were women who were raped at Karbala. But I have never heard that it was any of the Masooms. Some of the other women apparantly.

Now when I look at it like that....majority of the women in Karbala saw their own families die on the battle field just like Bibi Zaineb(AS), all of them were rounded up and chained jus like Bibi Zaineb(AS), however if some of them were raped and had to bear illegitimate children, which DID NOT happen to Bibi Zaineb(AS) would u then say that what they went through was worse than what Bibi Zaineb(AS) went through?

I guess in my mind I think to myself sometimes that more depraved things COULD have happened to the Bibis at Karbala and Shaam but they didn't, but they are happening to Muslim Women all over the world today.

I am not sure.........think I will ask an Alim about this subject??

A part of me believes that the "Tragedy" of Karbala is not WHAT happened, but "WHO" it happened to...that is the tragedy.

well....glad I got that off my chest.

Wasalaam

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in urdu there is a couplet:

khoon-e-shabbir ka maqrooz hay bashar

khoon-e-shabbir hai maqrooz be-rida zainab ka :cry:#

Translation:

The world owes a debt to the blood of Husayn (as)

Husayn's (as) blood owes a debt to the bareheaded Zaynab (as) :cry:

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Talking of couplets heres another one in regards to this situation

Veer Ne, La Ila Bachaya Hai, Dheke Sajday Me Sar Kataya Hai,

Tu Bachaya Hussain Ka Masqad, Diti Apni Nasal Goha Zainab...

(your) brother saved 'la ila' (tawheed) by prostrating and giving his head,

you saved Hussains mission, by giving your 'nasal'...

Another punjabi one..

Shabbir Ne, Deen Bachaya,

Shabbir Nu Bhai'rn Bacha Gayi...

Shabbir saved Islam,

And Shabbir was saved by his sister

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The reason I ask this is because on many occassions I have heard ppl saying things like

"If a momin woman was raped multiple times in her life, and had to raise illegitamate children, at the same time she kept her hijab and kept her religion, if she was abused as a child by her own parents, and yet she still loves Allah(swt), surely isn't that more than what Bibi Zaineb went through?"

To be honest I didn't have an answer. This brother was referring to the many women in Yugoslavia and Palestine and other places around the world. He also showed me a video of this Bosnian Hijabi girl, she must have only been in her mid 20s, she was crying and saying basically, "If the world wont help us then please at least send us contraceptives to protect us from the gang rapes we recieve from soldiers every day". When I saw that video I swear it really killed me inside.

To be honest, I really am not sure nemore. I mean I have heard certain things that there were women who were raped at Karbala. But I have never heard that it was any of the Masooms. Some of the other women apparantly.

Now when I look at it like that....majority of the women in Karbala saw their own families die on the battle field just like Bibi Zaineb(AS), all of them were rounded up and chained jus like Bibi Zaineb(AS), however if some of them were raped and had to bear illegitimate children, which DID NOT happen to Bibi Zaineb(AS) would u then say that what they went through was worse than what Bibi Zaineb(AS) went through?

I guess in my mind I think to myself sometimes that more depraved things COULD have happened to the Bibis at Karbala and Shaam but they didn't, but they are happening to Muslim Women all over the world today.

I am not sure.........think I will ask an Alim about this subject??

A part of me believes that the "Tragedy" of Karbala is not WHAT happened, but "WHO" it happened to...that is the tragedy.

well....glad I got that off my chest.

Wasalaam 

   

Dear bro,

I understand what you are saying. I also used to think about this but not anymore. You really can't compare someone's problems with those of bibi zainab (as). Be it murder, rape, raising illegitimate children, unjust usurpation of rights or mental torture etc. The reason being that when you compare the CONDITIONS under which bibi zainab (as) went through all the tortue in karbala, kufa and shaam you would realize that surely, such an incident has not been witnessed by history and the world will never ever see such a calamity till Qiyamah. The most important factor being, that bibi zainab (as) POSSESSED the power to get rid of her problems. Had she prayed to Allah (swt) the whole army of Yazid would have been destroyed in an instant! Some ppl might find this wierd but it is the truth. Such was the power of the ahlulbait. If she wanted she could have taken revenge there and then in the court of Yazid. If she wanted she could have prevented her veil from being snatched. She could have showed the ppl of kufa and shaam, what Allah does to those who laugh at the daughters of Ali ibn Abu talib (as). She could have prevented the death of bibi ruqaiyah (as). But she was the daughter of Ali (as) and Fatima (as) who was there becasue of a mission. She was there to protect her grandfather's message. If someone swears at your parents what would you do? If you had the power you might punch them in their face, or at least reply with a similar swear. But your real test would be if you remain quiet and tolerate them.

We do not need to discuss all the calamities that bibi zainab (as) had to face since we all know the details. But the important thing is how she behaved under the situation.

Now if you talk about the women of palestine etc...well, it is true that they are going through a lot but tell me...do they have the power to stop all that?? And would they bear through all this if they DID have the power (hypothetically speaking). I don't think so...

wasalam,

wassee

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Guest abaleada
Salaam,

So what does everyone think?

What is the TRUE tragedy of Karbala?

Is the Tragedy who is happened to...or what actually happened? Or is it both?

Wasalaam

(salam)

The tragedy continues today and is replayed every time the oppressed cry out and we ignore their cries. It is replayed every time we enter majlis, cry, and exit to forget about our beliefs and `ibadat that were fought for so hard on that day. How empty becomes the meaning of Karbala when we retell the story, shed crocodile tears, and ignore the message of our Prophet and Ahlul Bayt.

-Abbie

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Salamun Aleikum brothers & Sisters

I mean I have heard certain things that there were women who were raped at Karbala. But I have never heard that it was any of the Masooms. Some of the other women apparantly.

This statement is seriously a very disgusted one. How can my dear brothers and sister take something like this and that too without any reference. Try repeating this disgusted sentence infront of any rightly giuded Fuqahas and they will slap you there and then.

What else can i say to the Shi'i brothers and sisters than to please identify those who say such things and understand their ground realities.

Salamun Aleikum wa rahmat'Allah wa barkatoho

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Yaa Ali Madad

If a momin woman was raped multiple times in her life, and had to raise illegitamate children, at the same time she kept her hijab and kept her religion, if she was abused as a child by her own parents, and yet she still loves Allah(swt), surely isn't that more than what Bibi Zaineb went through?"

Washimi please explain yourself what are you trying to say ?

I mean I have heard certain things that there were women who were raped at Karbala. But I have never heard that it was any of the Masooms. Some of the other women apparantly.

What the hell are you writing ? do you know what you are writing ? how dare you right that i have heard that this happened ? do you have no shame ? do you not know the dignity of the prophets family ? on what basis do you right this ? Would you talk about your own sister or daughters like this ?

Astaghfurullah Astaghfurullah ? What is happening to these so called shias ?

I demand that you do tawbah for this action !

Yaa Ali Madad

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Salaam Alaykum,

When I was in Iran. I was talking with some Alims in Qom. What they told me is that not EVERYTHING is known about what happened in Karbala...some of the information is too devastating to even live if you hear. And only CERTAIN Alims have been able to know this information as they have spoken directly to the Imam-e-Zamana(AS)

One such Alim is Ayatollah Behishti ( I think)...his level of Irfan and closeness to Allah(swt) is so great that every Muhurram he ACTUALLY WITNESSES Karbala's events as they happen...he actually is on the battlefield and can see it happening, he can feel the heat and the sand beneath his feet, because Allah(Swt) has allowed the veils to be removed from his eyes...however at the point of Imam Hussain(AS)'s shahadat his veils are returned.

There is an event where apparantly one of the most beautiful men who loved the Imams and Rasool, had his head cut off. This was done because he had long hair and it was very beautiful...many men were envious of him. He also had a beautiful Mashallah practising wife. The soldiers cut off his head and burnt his hair to disrespect him. They then took his wife and raped her, and the "general" of the army made her his concubine. May Allah curse that man. This was during Abu Bakrs time. My point is that these type of thing DID happen.

I WAS NOT referring to the Holy Prophet's family. The Women of Karbala were NOT just from Rasool's family. Many of them were wives of supporters of the Imam(AS)

At the end of the day a brother has already answered the query very well. Brother Wassee which I think you should read.

My point was regarding tests...trials. In my opinion Rape is THE MOST WORST THING a momin woman or any woman can go through. IN my opinion THERE IS NOTHING IN HELL OR EARTH worse than rape. That is my opinion and ppl are free to disagree.....do u understand so far?? RAPE = worst crime against a woman...okay??

Okay...next...my point was that Bibi Zaineb(AS) DIDN'T go through that. Yet there are Momin Ladies today who are raped on a daily basis until they are killed, they are all over the world. .......okay?? U understand???

Now my QUERY ( it was a query ) was regarding this....did Bibi Zaineb(AS) go through the Ultimate test....is there no other test for All time worse than Bibi Zaineb's(AS)...?? That was my query...

Please read my posts and other's in future talvaar..everyone else seemed to understand and posted a reply....it is strange that you didn't?

Wasalaam

Edited by wahashimi

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Salaam.

Taken from: http://members.tripod.com/~mdhasan/Ali/chap33.htm

Maalik protested and gave another alternative to Khalid, that he should be taken to Abu Bakr where he can discuss the matter with Abu Bakr. But Khalid did not agree to this and ordered Zarar to behead Maalik. As Zarar approached Maalik, Maalik turned to his wife who was standing behind him and said, "It is because of you that Khalid is murdering me." Zarar then beheaded Maalik in the presence of Abdullah bin Umar, Abu Qatada and some Ansars and Maalik’s wife. Khalid then ordered the head of Maalik to be burnt and a pot of food to be put on it for being cooked. As Malik’s hair were very beautiful Khalid ordered that the fire must be put to the hair first. Abdullah ibn Umar, Abu Qatada and the Ansar protested but to no avail. Khalid then took hold of Maalik’s wife and raped her, and took her as his mistress. Khalid then got all the men of Bani Haifa killed and their ladies were taken as prisoners and slaves. They were all brought to Madina and lodged in the Prophet (S.A.W)’s mosque. It was from these slaves that Ali (A.S.) took the hand of Khoola and made her his wife. Mohammad bin Hanafia was the third son of Ali (A.S.) from her.

As the news of the murder of Maalik and his tribe, and the rape of his wife by Khalid spread the Muslims became very angry and upset. But Abu Bakr was very happy over the tragedy, and he declared, "No other woman can produce such a brave person as Khalid’s mother." [Tabari, Vol. 4, Page 11] Umar who was very angry at the attitude of Abu Bakr shouted, "Stone Khalid to death, he has raped Maalik’s wife." Abu Bakr replied, "No, I cannot do that. Khalid must have erred in performing his duty." Umar: "Sack him atleast." Abu Bakr: "I cannot put this sword back in the sheath which Allah has pulled out on my opponents." [Tarikhe ibne Khallekaan, Vol. 5, Page 172. Tarikhe Tabari, Vol. 3, Page 241]

===============================================

Yazid was worse than any of these people such as Khalid...May Allah(swt) curse them both.

Wasalaam

Edited by wahashimi

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I mean I have heard certain things that there were women who were raped at Karbala. But I have never heard that it was any of the Masooms. Some of the other women apparantly.

wahashimi you have heard "certain" things and some people have said "certain" things. And I can assure you that whosoever believes in or agrees to the above qoute, his/her mother, sisters and daughters have done "certain" things which result in such disgusting beliefs.

When I was in Iran. I was talking with some Alims in Qom. What they told me is that not EVERYTHING is known about what happened in Karbala...some of the information is too devastating to even live if you hear. And only CERTAIN Alims have been able to know this information as they have spoken directly to the Imam-e-Zamana(AS)

One such Alim is Ayatollah Behishti ( I think)...his level of Irfan and closeness to Allah(swt) is so great that every Muhurram he ACTUALLY WITNESSES Karbala's events as they happen...he actually is on the battlefield and can see it happening, he can feel the heat and the sand beneath his feet, because Allah(Swt) has allowed the veils to be removed from his eyes...however at the point of Imam Hussain(AS)'s shahadat his veils are returned.

I WAS NOT referring to the Holy Prophet's family. The Women of Karbala were NOT just from Rasool's family. Many of them were wives of supporters of the Imam(AS)

And has Aqa Behishti or another Alim actually said what you presented in the first qoute above? I am certain that no Alim, including Aqa Behishti, has ever said anything like that!!! God forbid and I repeat GOD FORBID if someone claiming to be an Alim actually has uttered the same filth as you have, then his mother, sisters and daughters have also done "certain" things to have the same filthy mind as yours.

In my opinion Rape is THE MOST WORST THING a momin woman or any woman can go through. IN my opinion THERE IS NOTHING IN HELL OR EARTH worse than rape. That is my opinion and ppl are free to disagree.....do u understand so far?? RAPE = worst crime against a woman...okay??

I do like your style. No one would disagree that rape is the worst thing a woman can go through. Your respect and sympathy for the women is really appreciated so why not use it to throw filth at the ladies in the camp of Imam Hussain (as). Well done lanati!!!

I have seen the mods here ban people for various things but in this case the administration seems to be silent. I hope they act in the strictest of manner and delete the filth from your posts.I am sure you wouldn't do that yourself.

Innama Ureed Allah Le Yuzhiba Ankumur Rijsa Ahlil Bayt e Wa Yu Tahirikum Tatheera

Edited by Chittar

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Salaam Alaykum,

Lanati??!!

Dont worry bro..I forgive...May Allah Forgive you and save u from your stupidity.

I am sorry, but ure stupidity is blinding you from my query....maybe the malang hawzas you come from teach you to act like this so no worrys.

It is strange how non shianews.com ppl seem to understand the point I am getting at..

I am angry at your comments towards my mother and my sisters...may Allah forgive you for your backbiting against them...but I cannot let my anger get to me...so the best I can do is forgive u. Inshallah I hope that your mother and sisters are in the best of health and Imaan.

Neways....it is obvious that these Shianews muqallids using an alliance with the malangs will turn this into some sort of fight now...so I am going to speak to an Alim about this topic. And then see what he says.

My resident Alim is in Iran at the mo, does anyone have any Alims email addresses? Does anyone have Sheikh Arif from Birmingham or Molanna Maqbool Hussain Alavi's from Peterborough email address? If not dont worry I will travel to their Jamaats some time soon as I havent seen them in a while.

For now, I request that the mods close this topic. I wanna thank the mods for not closing it immediatly and having the Ilm to understand the issue that was trying to be discussed..Mashallah all of you thankyou :-)

It is at times like these that we can see the BIG difference between the good work our Mods/Admins do....and backward village-like drivel these Malangs/shianews.com muqallids spurt out.

May Allah Guide us all the the right path.

Wasalaam

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