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Hannibal

Ya Ali Madad instead of Salam Alaikum ?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Sorry for jumping in (I have not read the thread in full). It says in Zyarat of Hazrat Fatima (SA):

"Peace be on you,

O wife of the representative of Allah,

the best creation, after the Messenger of Allah".

-----------

WS

Edited by Orion

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yes i agree, to call to mind ali ( ie to say ya ali ) is an act of worship

but however i do not think we should say ya ali madad when we greet, coz ya ali madad is a dua, and salam is a greeting, therefore ya ali madad is more importatnt and should only be used when in diffuclties, not as a tool for showing off the fact your shia

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Again, nobody is contending that saying Ya Ali Madad is not allowed.

Salam Alaikum has its place, and Ya Ali Madad has its place, and they shouldnt be confused.

Just as namaz has its place and sawm has its place.

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QUOTE (Abbas786 @ Aug 7 2003, 02:54 PM)

Salam Alaikum

I believe nooraniyyat, ismat, etc of the Prophet (S) and Imam ALI (A) is the same, but there is small difference which is manifested from the ahadeeth that who followed who? Who gave the orders? If they both the same in every single way, and one is not inferior or greater than the other even by an atom's weight, why did one choose to lead and the other choose to serve and follow?

quote - bro asad

i agree.........good point.

- if both of u had any knowledge of youm e alast, then u would have regretted making this statement. I can vouch for it.

- ya ali(as) - Inni mohtajun elaika fid duniya wal akhira.

akhbari

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if both of u had any knowledge of youm e alast, then u would have regretted making this statement. I can vouch for it.

Bro if you had any intention of helping us or sharing knowledge, you wouldnt come here with your insulting one liners.

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salaam aleikum

bro asad - u know me better. mark out any post in my entire stay on shiachat - to anybody - which was repulsive leave alone insulting.

Read the statement carefully with an open mind. your reply clearly shows how u viewed my post. Points of view are not made by insults. U could have at best replied to my hadees.

i still reiterate what i had written in my post which u termed as an insult. The crux to knowing ahlebait is not from this world. Al muraad o minal marifa hiya marefatin nooraniyya.

akhbari

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bro akhbari

If there is no difference between Rasoolullah pbuh and Maula Ali (as), why in Dua Nudba the former be addressed as "Sayyid al Akbar" and the latter "Sayyid al Asghar" . There is no doubt on authencity of the doa, and it is a teaching of Imam Zaman (as), so who would know better than he?

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Yaa Ali Madad

Again, nobody is contending that saying Ya Ali Madad is not allowed.

Thankyou for your comment brother, it has been settled !

Yaa Ali Madad

QUOTE

YAA ABAL GHAISOO AGHSEENI YAA ALI ADRAKNI

Anwarul-alvia pg 261

Would anybody like to comment about this greeting ?

So it is apparent that Yaa Ali Madad can be used.

Yaa Ali Madad

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Guest AR

YA Allah MADAD

i still find the greeting Ya Ali Madad(Oh' Ali Help me) quite strange

YA Allah MADAD

Allah-U-AKBAR Allah-U-AKBAR Allah-U-AKBAR

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Yaa ali Madad

i still find the greeting Ya Ali Madad(Oh' Ali Help me) quite strange

After all the comments you still find the greeting strange astaghfurullah.

Momin gallay laga kai kahoo Yaa Ali Madad

Aur Munkar ko tum jala kay kahoo Yaa ali Madad

Shoukat meri leihad mai woh manzar ajeeb tha

Jab mainay khud Ali say kaha Yaa Ali Madad

(This is not targeted at you or anyone)

Yaa Ali Madad

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talvaar786,

Salaam Alaykum

Salaam is the Islamic greeting. I am not against Ya Ali Madad, but it is used a help when someone is in trouble or needs help, but not as a greeting.

So why is it used as a greeting? I am still confused as to why Ya Ali Madad used as a greeting?

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Yaa Ali Madad

YAA ABAL GHAISOO AGHSEENI YAA ALI ADRAKNI

Anwarul-alvia pg 261

Why are you confused ? Are you not from Pakistan ? does your uncle not use Yaa Ali Madad ? tell me You never heard anyone say Yaa Ali Madad in Karachi ?

As I said earlier in my comments I am not against saying Salaam Alaikum but I would like to give my salam to him who is of legitimate birth. Have you read the Quran does not Allah (SWT) say clearly that Do not make the enemies of Islam as your friends - now we have an open enemy (like Wahabies) and Hidden enemies (like Maqessers) therefore I say Yaa Ali Madad and if he/she replies happily then I know he is momin and will say salaam alaikum but if his/her face changes then I know he/she is an enemy. I do not give salaam to enemies.

My main objective has been achieved that saying Yaa Ali Madad is definitely not a bidah.

By the way I know you like poetry, Did you like the poem about Yaa Ali Madad by Shoakat Raza Shoakat from Pakistan.

Yaa Ali Madad

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Why are you confused ? Are you not from Pakistan ? does your uncle not use Yaa Ali Madad ? tell me You never heard anyone say Yaa Ali Madad in Karachi ?

No I am not from Pakistan, no I never heard my uncle using Ya Ali madad as a greeting, no I don't know if people say Ya Ali Madad as a greeting in Karachi because I live in London.

Have you read the Quran does not Allah (SWT) say clearly that Do not make the enemies of Islam as your friends

Quran also says use salaam as a greeting to Muslims. If they are enemies of Ahlul Bayt (as) openly, then I would never give salaam to them. But we don't know what is in the hearts. So if one says he is Muslim, we should say Salaam. :)

Did you like the poem about Yaa Ali Madad by Shoakat Raza Shoakat from Pakistan.

I haven't heard it.

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I can't belive this is still going on, surely it is fairly obvious that Muslims should be united in one big group. Saying Ya Ali Madad seperates sub-continental shi'a from the Arab, Persian and other groups. Furthermore it brings about even more division between sunni and shi'a.

As soon as innovations like this start taking place cracks appear - Salaam Alaykum is the worldwide greeting to be used by fellow Muslims to one another, how can there be any possible discussion? Why do people have to start adding and detracting from it?

If Sunnis started saying "Ya Abu Bakr Madad" instead of Salaam Alaykum or EVEN in addition to it, imagine what we shi'a would say to them - so listen and learn.

Wa Salaam

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Guest AR
If Sunnis started saying "Ya Abu Bakr Madad" instead of Salaam Alaykum or EVEN in addition to it, imagine what we shi'a would say to them - so listen and learn.

true

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Yaa Ali Madad

But we don't know what is in the hearts.
bro I have given you the way on how to find out whether someone is legitimate or not, just say Yaa Ali Madad and then see his/her face. This is the method used by Hazrat Salman and Hazrat Abuzar.

I have also you a reference of a greeting used by our beloved Prophet:

YAA ABAL GHAISOO AGHSEENI YAA ALI ADRAKNI

Anwarul-alvia pg 261

Brother shis boy :

As soon as innovations like this start taking place cracks appear

You think this is an innovation - what about the above greeting ?

Bro remember do not forget your own religion in the pursuit of making sunnies happy.

Yaa Ali Madad

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Salaam,

Can you show any hadith or references where it is stated that you must say "ya ali madad" to someone to test their faith, or furthermore how YOU personally can claim to be the judge of any character - you do not know what is in the hearts and minds of people. Some people may not even know what Ya Ali Madad means, so how can you possibly justify its use in that sense?

It is an innovation if used as a greeting. Period

As for Sunnis, Allah himself says in the Quran that Muslims must be unified, not seperated on groups of ethnicity.

Wa Salaam

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Yaa Ali Madad

Thankyou for your reply respected brother Shiaboy83 :

Can you show any hadith or references where it is stated that you must say "ya ali madad" to someone to test their faith

If you have read this thread carefully you will have noticed that I am not against saying Aslaam Alaikum. The discussion is that some people view saying Yaa Ali Madad as Bidah and I have given a reference of greeting from Prophet Muhammed (SAW) :

YAA ABAL GHAISOO AGHSEENI YAA ALI ADRAKNI

Anwarul-alvia pg 261

to someone to test their faith, or furthermore how YOU personally can claim to be the judge of any character

There are references from the Imam's about how to find out whether someone is of legitimate birth or not- just start talking about virtues of Maula Ali (as) and see his/her face. This is the method used by Hz Salman Farsi and Hz Jandab ibnay Janada (Hz Abu Zar).

Yaa Ali Madad

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Salaam,

You have provided just ONE reference, even then where is the contextual analysis? You are using that reference to justify turning Ya Ali Madad into a greeting worthy of Salaam Alaykum, and then daring to suggest you judge a persons faith and eman on how they react to someone saying Ya Ali Madad. Saying Ya Ali Madad as a form of greeting is indeed an innovation - for we have been commanded by God to greet other Muslims in a specified manner, it is not up for discussion - you are not wiser than God.

People are judged on their faith, their prayers and their Aamals, not on whether they smile or not when Imam Ali's name is mentioned. Only Allah is a judge of character, everything else is pure speculation.

Wa Salaam

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Salam Alaikum

YAA ABAL GHAISOO AGHSEENI YAA ALI ADRAKNI

Anwarul-alvia pg 261

Please tell me how you interpret this as a greeting, and not as a call for help.

As for the testing of somebody being momin or not, if u throw a "Ya Ali Madad" at an Ismaili or Ghali or a barelwi Sunni, their faces will surely light up and they will reply in similar fashion. What has this proven? Nothing.

Please give proof and stop this rhetorical nonsense.

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Yaa Ali Madad

Are you saying that Hazrat Salman Farsi and Hazrat Abu Zar never used the Maula Ali as finding out whether someone is legitimate or not ?

Why are you so against it ? It is to show our love and affection for our Imam ? I am not against saying salaam but trying to tell you that it is not a bidah ?

If you think it is bidah I ask you to get me a fatwa of a living scholar ?

Yaa Ali Madad

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Salam Alaikum

Yaa Ali Madad

Are you saying that Hazrat Salman Farsi and Hazrat Abu Zar never used the Maula Ali as finding out whether someone is legitimate or not ?

Why are you so against it ? It is to show our love and affection for our Imam ? I am not against saying salaam but trying to tell you that it is not a bidah ?

If you think it is bidah I ask you to get me a fatwa of a living scholar ?

Yaa Ali Madad

Why put words in my mouth? Why not just answer my questions?

I don't deny that hazrat Salman and Abu Dharr used the fadhail of Imam Ali (A) to find out who is legitimate and who is not. But as far as I know and am sure, you are not Salman or Abu Dharr. They did amazing things in their life, one was a member of Ahlul Bayt, the other was the most truthful person. Hazrat Salman could speak to dogs to order them to guard the streets from robbers and bandits, and Hazrat Abu dhar was promised Heaven and one of the greatest companions of the Ahlul Bait (A). Dont compare yourself to them.

Secondly I am not against saying Ya Ali Madad, I say it all the time, but that is between me and Mola. Are you saying I have no affection for our Imams ?? Just because I say Salam instead of calling Imam Ali (A) to help me? Why should I publicize that I say Ya Ali Madad? Should I show off? No, like i said above, its between me and Mola. I dont need to prove to anybody, least of all you, that I am legitimate and what my Iman is.

So far you havent given any proof that it was Masoomeen's (A) sunnah to skip Salam Alaikum, and say Ya Ali Madad instead. Why shuold I find u a fatwa from a mujtahid when u attack the same people? I dont want to bring forth their names and fatwas proving that the usage of Ya Ali Madad instead of Salam Alaikumas a form of test of Iman is a bidah, otherwise they would be victims of your insults and accusations of taqseer, etc.

If it is not bidah, bring your proof. Answer my question. Stop rhetorical nonsense.

please answer these questions:

Salam Alaikum

YAA ABAL GHAISOO AGHSEENI YAA ALI ADRAKNI

Anwarul-alvia pg 261

Please tell me how you interpret this as a greeting, and not as a call for help.

As for the testing of somebody being momin or not, if u throw a "Ya Ali Madad" at an Ismaili or Ghali or a barelwi Sunni, their faces will surely light up and they will reply in similar fashion. What has this proven? Nothing.

Edited by Abbas786

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Yaa Ali Madad

No, like i said above, its between me and Mola. I dont need to prove to anybody, least of all you, that I am legitimate and what my Iman is.

Did i ask you to prove anything ? I am merely qouting you narrations ? Why are you getting angry ? As I mentioned before i am not against saying salaam but my mission is to prove that you cannot call saying Yaa Ali Madad as bidah - its that simple - Its all about Ishq my brother - Maula Ali (as) ka zikr ibaadat hai ?

let me tell you a qoute from a very famous book Kokabadurri - the author narrates that in one of the doors of heaven will have shining Emeralds on it and the door will greet its entries by saying Yaa Ali Yaa Ali ? What do you say about this ?

Yaa Ali Madad

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Did i ask you to prove anything ? I am merely qouting you narrations ? Why are you getting angry ? As I mentioned before i am not against saying salaam but my mission is to prove that you cannot call saying Yaa Ali Madad as bidah - its that simple - Its all about Ishq my brother - Maula Ali  ka zikr ibaadat hai ?

let me tell you a qoute from a very famous book Kokabadurri - the author narrates that in one of the doors of heaven will have shining Emeralds on it and the door will greet its entries by saying Yaa Ali Yaa Ali ? What do you say about this ?

Salam Alaikum

No, I am not angry. I am trying to get a few points across which you keep on avoiding and changing what i am saying to you.

As for asking me to prove anything, you are not asking me, but you wish proof of legitimacy of birth and a smile in reply of Ya Ali Madad to prove that I am a Shia and momin, in order to give me Salaam. Where do u derive a precedent for this kind of test of iman?

that is offensive to the whole ummah

you made yourself clear that u r not against salam, and i have never said the contrary and have understood that. and i have made myself clear that i am not against dhikr of Imam Ali (A), so why dont u understand that??? Why do u start preaching me about it like i am against it ??? I dont need preaching from the enemy of the ulama. alhamdulillah, the ulama have taught me the fadhail of Imam Ali (A)

until u tell me that u understand that the issue is not saying Ya Ali Madad and dhikr of Mola Ali, i cant be bothered to speak to u on this issue

PS its not anger, its frustration that all along i been talking to brick wall

Ya Ali Madad!

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Agar koi shak nahin hai to Jis jaga tum Allah aur rasool Pak ka naam lo tho meray Maula kaa naam zuroor layna

Who says I don't? :huh:

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