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In the Name of God بسم الله
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shiaofhussayn

#1 Imam Ali Ibn Abi Taleb (as)

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Here Is Another Sermon Of Mola Ali (as)

SerMon no 88.........

About the attributes of Allah and some guidance

Praise be to Allah who is well-known without being seen, Who creates without pondering over,

Who has ever been existent WHEN

there was no sky with domes,

nor curtains with lofty doors,

nor gloomy night,

nor peaceful ocean,

nor mountains with broad pathways,

nor curved mountain roads,

nor earth of spread floors,

nor self-reliant creatures.

He is the Originator of creation and their Master. He is the God of the creation and its feeder. The sun and the moon are steadily moving in pursuit of His will. They make every fresh thing old and every distant thing near.

He distributed their sustenance and has counted their deeds and acts, the number of their breaths, their concealed looks, and whatever is hidden in their bosoms. He knows their places of stay and places of last resort in the loins and wombs till they reach their end.

His punishment on enemies is harsh despite the extent of His Mercy, and

His compassion on His friends is vast despite His harsh punishment.

He overpowers one who wants to overcome Him, and

He destroys one who clashes with Him.

He disgraces one who opposes Him and

He gains sway over one who bears Him hostility.

He is sufficient for one who relies on Him.

He gives one who asks Him.

He repays one who lends to Him.

He rewards one who thanks Him.

O' creatures of Allah,

weigh yourselves before you are weighed and

assess yourselves before you are assessed.

Breathe before suffocation of the throat.

Be submissive before you are harshly driven.

Know that if one does not help himself in acting as his own adviser and warner then no one else can (effectively) be his adviser or warner.

post-22-1070814996.jpg

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Sermon Of Mola Ali as

Book:-Nahjul Balagha

(Peak of Eloquence)

Sermon No.3

The famous sermon of "Shiqshiqayya". A description of the first three Caliphs and Imam Ali's(A.S.) patience over the usurpation of his rights.

Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Qahafa (Abu Bakr) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death).

I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was [Edited Out]ing in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

(Then Hazrat Ali quoted al-A'sha's verse):

My days are now passed on the camel's back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir's brother Hayyan.

It is strange that during his lifetime he (Abu Bakr) wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one (Umar) after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore. One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.

Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group and regarded me to be one of them.

But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high.

One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder. With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah's wealth like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.

At that moment, nothing took me by surprise, but the crowd of people rushing to me. It advanced towards me from every side like the mane of the hyena so much so that Hasan and Husain were getting crushed and both the ends of my shoulder garment were torn. They collected around me like the herd of sheep and goats.

When I took up the reins of government one party broke away and another turned disobedient while the rest began acting wrongfully as if they had not heard the word of Allah saying:

That abode in the hereafter, We assign it for those who intend not toexult themselves in the earth, nor (to make) mischief (therein); and theend is (best) for the pious ones. (Quran, 28:83)

Yes, by Allah, they had heard it and understood it but the world appeared glittering in their eyes and its embellishments seduced them. Behold, by Him who split the grain (to grow) and created living beings,

if people had not come to me,

and supporters had not exhausted the argument,

and if there had been no pledge of Allah with the learned to the effect that they should not acquiesce in the gluttony of the oppressor and the hunger of the oppressed,

I would have cast the rope of Caliphate on its own shoulders, and would have given the last one the same treatment as to the first one.

Then you would have seen that in my view this world of yours is no better than the sneezing of a goat!

(It is said that when Ameerul Momineen reached here in his sermon a man of Iraq stood up and handed him over a writing. Ameerul Momineen began looking at it, when Ibn Abbas said, "O' Ameerul Momineen, I wish you resumed your Sermon from where you broke it." Thereupon Imam Ali (A.S.) replied, "O' Ibn Abbas it was like the foam of a Camel which gushed out but subsided." Ibn Abbas says that he never grieved over any utterance as he did over this one because Ameerul Momineen could not finish it as he wished to.)

wa salam

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Imam Ali (as) First in many Fields

1. He was the only man to be born in the Kabah (The house of God)

2. He was the first to offer homage to the Holy Prophet (pbuh&HF)

3. He was the first to offer prayers after the Holy Prophet (pbuh&HF)

4. He was the first to offer his services for Jihad.

5. He was the first to receive religious instructions from the Holy Prophet (pbuh&HF)

6. He was the first to compile and codify the Quran

7. He was the first to be styled as "brother" by the Prophet (pbuh&HF) and on every occasion

8. He was the first to give burial to the Prophet (pbuh&HF)

9. He was the first to offer to sleep in the Prophet's (pbuh&HF) bed on the night of his emigration to Medina

10. He was the first to be appointed commander in all those battles in which the Holy Prophet (pbuh&HF) didnot participate personally

11. The honor of the propagation of the Quranic Sura, "al Bara'at" fell to Imam Ali's (as) lot

------------------------------

Imam Ali and the Ancient Prophets

1. God gave Adam the knowledge of His names, while Ali held the entire knowledge of the Book of Allah.

2. Adam was married with Eve in the Garden of Paradise, while God married Imam Ali (as) with Fatima (as) in heaven

3. God styled Noah as a "Grateful Creature" and he was called the Second Adam, while Imam Ali (as) was styled as "Abu'l Ummah"

4. God made Abraham the "Imam" or the "Leaders of men", while Imam Ali (as) was the Imam of all creation, men and Jinnis

5. Moses was brought up in the house of Pharoah, while Imam Ali (as) was brought up in the house of the Prophet (pbuh&HF)

6. Moses threw his rod which became a serpent, whereas Imam Ali (as), while still in the cradle, cleaved the snake into two

7. Moses name has been mentioned 230 times in the Quran, while Imam Ali's (as) has been referred to in 300 places in the Quran

12. He was the only man to be titled as the "Second Aaron" by the Prophet (pbuh&HF)

13. The honor of owning a house which opened into the courtyard of the Prophet's (pbuh&HF) mosque was reserved for Imam Ali (as) alone

14. He was the first to have the honor of being nominated by the Holy Prophet (pbuh&HF) as his succesor, testator and vice regent.

YA ALI

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Lanatollah Nasibi + Moqaser

He was of noblest birth for both his father and mother were Hashimites.

He was the only person to be born in the Kaaba (the house of God).

He was the only Divinely authorized witness and Attester that Prophet Muhammad is the Messenger of God. (Surah Raad Verse 43, Surah Hood Verse 17 and Surah Saha Verse 6.).

He was the first to offer prayers after the Holy Prophet.

He was the only one to offer his assistance to the Holy Prophet at the gathering of Dawat-e-Asheera.

Ali was the only one (except the Holy Prophet) whom God inspired with Divine Secrets.

He was the first to compile and codify the Quran.

He had the distinction of being styled as “Brother” by the Prophet on both the occasions of “before Hijrat” at Mecca and after Hijrat at Medina.

Ali was the only one named by the Holy Prophet to bathe his body after his death.

Ho was the only warrior to stick to his post on the battlefield in all battles and who never once turned his back.

It was he who was appointed Commander in all the battles in which the Holy Prophet did not partici­pate personally and was the Standard Bearer when the Prophet participated.

He was the great warrior who succeeded in killing all adversaries who fought against him.

It was Ali who caught and conquered pagan ‘Jinns’ many of whom accepted Islam.

The honor of the propagation of the Quranic Surah “Al-Baraat” (the Immunity) fell to Ali’s lot, the Prophet saying that either he himself or Ali could do it and no one else, thereby raising him Supreme above all others.

It was he on whom the Holy Prophet bestowed the title “a Second Aaron.”

The privilege of removing the symbols of Arab paganism from the Kaaba (after the conquest of Mecca) was also reserved for Ali.

Ali had the good fortune to have the sublimest woman of the world Fatima as his wife and a unique father-in-law like the Prophet and sons like Hasan and Husain.

Ali had the honor of being nominated by the Holy Prophet as his Successor, Testator and Vicegerent.

Ali was also honored by being styled “Moula” (Master) of the “Ummah” (nation) by the Holy Prophet, by the mandate of God.

Ali is the one who (long before the creation of the universe) came into being along with the Holy Prophet each of them being a fragment of the same ‘Noor’, (Light), Muhammad having the Prophethood and Ali having the ‘Vilayath’. (Authority).

Ali while in the stage of ‘Noor’ has been the Divine Professor who imparted knowledge to Gabriel and other angels - hence known as the Teacher of Gabriel.

Ali is the only one who continues in himself the attributes of all the Prophets put together.

Ali is the Head of all the Spiritual Lines of the Ahl­e-Tariqat and Sufis.

Ali is the replica of the Holy Prophet and is to him what the head is to a body.

The Prophet and Ali alone could come to the Mosque when under the obligation of a bath.

Ali’s door, like that of the Prophet, that opened in the Mosque was retained while the doors of all others were closed under a Divine Mandate.

Ali is the one who was ordained to assist all Mess­engers of God from Adam to Jesus, hiddenly and to come out openly to assist the Holy Prophet.

Ali is the sole one divinely designated as the Hand of God, Face of God, Eye of God, Ear of God, Tongue of God and Symbol of God.

He is the only one, acknowledgment of whose ‘Vilayath’ (authority) along with the Prophethood of Muhammad is the basic requisite for the Pro­phethood of any Messenger of God.

Like the Holy Prophet, Ali was bestowed upon with miracles, such as on two occasions he made the sun come back from the west when it had already set.

Besides the Holy Prophet, Ali is the only one, de­parture of whose soul depends on his own will.

He is the distributor of Kausar and will allot Heaven or Hell as deserved.

Lanatollah Nasibi + Moqaser

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A man asked Imam Ali (a.s.) in Masjid-e-Kufa, “What is the distance between me and (pointing towards the sun) and the sun”.

It is worth mentioning here about the complexity of this question. This man was an Arab. And in the Arabic language the numbers or count is limited upto one thousand (1000). The count in arabic does not exceed 1000. The answer to the question this man asked dealt in millions (distance).

It was like a challenge to Imam Ali (a.s.) to answer him in a convincing manner without confusing him.

Imam Ali (a.s.) answered : “If an Arab horse starts walking from here and continues walking for 500 years, then he (horse) will reach the sun.”

The man got convinced and walked away.

But it is for us now to ponder on what Imam Ali (a.s.) said. This one sentence of Imam Ali (a.s.) shows and proves the genius that Imam Ali (a.s.) was.

Imam Ali (a.s.) said “If an Arab horse…”, the average speed of an arab horse is 22 mph (miles per hour).

If a horse runs the full day (24hours) it will cover approximately 520 miles. This gives us the distance the horse will cover in 24 hrs (one day).

To calculate the distance covered by the horse in one month we multiply it 520 by 29.5 (Taking an average of the number of months in urdu callender. Assuming that 6 months are of 29 days and 6 months are of 30 days.). It gives us something around 15,500. The horse covers 15,500 miles in one month (30 days).

To get the distance that he will travel in one year we multiply it by 12. Since there are 12 months in a year. It gives you 1,86,000.

Then multiply 1,86,000 by 500 as the horse should run for 500 years. It gives you 9,34,00,000 miles.

Now if you ask an astronomer about the distance of sun from the earth he will tell you that the distance is never constant. The orbit of the earth is oval in shape. Sometimes it comes nearer to the sun and on occasions it distances itself from the sun. When the earth is closest to the sun its distance is 9,10,00,000 miles and the distance when it is farthest from the sun is 9,48,00,000 miles. When you take an average on these two distances it comes around 9,30,000 miles.

Imam Ali (a.s.) 1400 years back told us about the distance of the earth from the sun. This also proves that Imam Ali (a.s.) was a genius in Astronomy, Zoology and Arithmetic.

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(salam)

Amazing!

The closest reasonable estimate for the distance between the earth and the sun was made in 1671 when the telescopes were reinvented! The figure that we have today, of aprrox. 93 million miles, was only established in 1961-ish.

Thanks for sharing this info bro, do you have a reference for that hadith?

When you take an average on these two distances it comes around 9,30,000 miles.

Correction: 93,000,000 miles :D

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Brother Troy The knowledge possessed by our Imams is unmatched by anone in any era.

if u desire to know more abt the knowledge of ali (as) i suggest u read nahjul balaga. u'll find therein beautiful words of wisdom and knowledge on varied aspects of our life.

I do not have the reference of the above hadith frm any book. I heard this incident in a Majlis of Maulana Sadiq Hasan Saab. The Topic of this Majlis was Islam and Modern Age.

if u want i can give u the year and venue of the majlis after checking it in the CD.

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A man asked Imam Ali (a.s.) in Masjid-e-Kufa, “What is the distance between me and (pointing towards the sun) and the sun”.

It is worth mentioning here about the complexity of this question. This man was an Arab. And in the Arabic language the numbers or count is limited upto one thousand (1000). The count in arabic does not exceed 1000. The answer to the question this man asked dealt in millions (distance).

It was like a challenge to Imam Ali (a.s.) to answer him in a convincing manner without confusing him.

Imam Ali (a.s.) answered : “If an Arab horse starts walking from here and continues walking for 500 years, then he (horse) will reach the sun.”

The man got convinced and walked away.

But it is for us now to ponder on what Imam Ali (a.s.) said. This one sentence of Imam Ali (a.s.) shows and proves the genius that Imam Ali (a.s.) was.

Imam Ali (a.s.) said “If an Arab horse…”, the average speed of an arab horse is 22 mph (miles per hour).

If a horse runs the full day (24hours) it will cover approximately 520 miles. This gives us the distance the horse will cover in 24 hrs (one day).

To calculate the distance covered by the horse in one month we multiply it 520 by 29.5 (Taking an average of the number of months in urdu callender. Assuming that 6 months are of 29 days and 6 months are of 30 days.). It gives us something around 15,500. The horse covers 15,500 miles in one month (30 days).

To get the distance that he will travel in one year we multiply it by 12. Since there are 12 months in a year. It gives you 1,86,000.

Then multiply 1,86,000 by 500 as the horse should run for 500 years. It gives you 9,34,00,000 miles.

Now if you ask an astronomer about the distance of sun from the earth he will tell you that the distance is never constant. The orbit of the earth is oval in shape. Sometimes it comes nearer to the sun and on occasions it distances itself from the sun. When the earth is closest to the sun its distance is 9,10,00,000 miles and the distance when it is farthest from the sun is 9,48,00,000 miles. When you take an average on these two distances it comes around 9,30,000 miles.

Imam Ali (a.s.) 1400 years back told us about the distance of the earth from the sun. This also proves that Imam Ali (a.s.) was a genius in Astronomy, Zoology and Arithmetic.

SubhanAllah this is so amazing thanks bro for sharing this with us! :D

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(salam)

Imam Ali (a.s.) answered : “If an Arab horse starts walking from here and continues walking for 500 years, then he (horse) will reach the sun.”

Would it be impolite for me to mention that no horse ever has walked at 22mph?

This link shows an Arab horse which won a one day 100 mile race running at an average speed of 12.71 mph:

Arab Racing

So presumably walking speed over a day would be considerably less than 12.7 mph?

Maybe the hadith isn't authentic? Where did you get the 22 mph figure from?

In gentle mischief

Gulliver

Edited by Gulliver

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This is a mockery of Islam. How is that average speed calculated? Average speed at the fastest pace, average speed over a certain distance, just how? It seems to me that you can put any number that matches the reality into equation and then proclaim infinite knowledge! I'm sure had the narration been 1000 or even 250 years, you could have come up with the proper number to gleefully arrive at the required conclusion. How distasteful.

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(salam)

I agree that not even an arabian horse could "walk" at 22mph, but since you don't have the hadith then you most probably paraphrased it, which probably resulted in a slight error when wording it.

There's no problem with the average speed of an arabian horse being 22mph, although I agree that it would be more convincing had the actual hadith been provided for us to look at.

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(salam)

There's no problem with the average speed of an arabian horse being 22mph

I'd say there was, as you have no idea of the distance measure. Why not 21 or 23mph? Or 35mph?

What's the average speed of a human being?

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(salam)
There's no problem with the average speed of an arabian horse being 22mph

I'd say there was, as you have no idea of the distance measure. Why not 21 or 23mph? Or 35mph?

What's the average speed of a human being?

(bismillah)

Where the hell did you get 35 mph from ?? since when do horses trot at 35mph ??

I smirked when I saw it, but no need to be outrageous.

Edited by Abdulhujjah

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Where the hell did you get 35 mph from ?? since when do horses trot at 35mph ??

I smirked when I saw it, but no need to be outrageous.

(salam)

LOL! Same place you got "trot" from! :D

Even if we relax the assumption that the horse was not walking, as in the OP, - then to say a horse has an average speed of X makes no sense without a distance measure. Over a sufficently short distance, horses can easily reach 35 mph. The top speed of a horse is something like 45 mph.

My point would have still been valid if I'd said 100 mph tho'. Can you see why now?

Do you believe the hadith, as is recounted above, is authentic?

In haste

Gulliver

Edited by Gulliver

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(salam) Dede Gorgud!

You don't have to call me stupid. If there's something you know that I don't you can explain it to me patiently and there's a chance it will enter even into my thick skull. Do you honestly think that Hazrat Ali (as) would endorse you calling anyone "..obviously too stupid.."?

One who imagines himself to be all-knowing will surely suffer on account of his ignorance.

Now to your point:

Obviously the longer the distance needed to travel, the slower the average speed will be. But thousand years ago, there were no "average speeds", so Imam Ali  had to make the man imagine the speed of a horse, and bearing in mind that there were no numbers over thousand back in those days. In any complex math problems you have to make certain assumptions, and because of the complexity of this question, you had to assume that the horse was travelling at a constan speed

The orignal point of quoting the hadith is to show just how astonishingly accurate the distance estimation was. 22 mph was the number quoted in the analysis. If you're saying that all the number had to be was what someone imagined it to be, then maybe the prediction wasn't all that precise?

Where do you think the number 22 mph came from? I think it was deliberately put there afterwards to make the numbers fit. As you say, (and as I've been saying throughout the thread), without a distance measure an average speed is meaningless. Maybe you have a better reason for that exact number that you're not sharing?

The top speed of an Arabian horse is about 45 mph (it might have been slightly slower in those times, I don't know) - so the hadith could have been more precise by saying "If a horse gallops at top speed non-stop day and night for 236.5 years then he will reach the moon", but it wasn't. There would have been no room for ambiguity then.

Why do you think it was important to have an ambiguous claim?

The purpose here is not to mock Hazrat Ali (as), but to try to analyse these miraculous claims first before regurgitating it out to the rest of the world (besides, I'm an atheist now, and don't believe in Hell). I agree with mahdi in that claims like these which are uncritically accepted by believers do not do the image of Islam any favours.

In obvious stupidity

Gulliver

Edited by Gulliver

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This is the reference of the majlis from where i quoted this tradition.

The Majlis was recited by Maulana Sadiq Hasan Saab in 1998. The topic of the Ashra was Islam & Modern Age. The majlis was recited on 1.5.1998.

If you get this Majlis, Maulana starts reciting this tradition from the 45th min.

I have the this majlis in video format. Tats y i m unable to upload it.

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This is the reference of the majlis from where i quoted this tradition.

The Majlis was recited by Maulana Sadiq Hasan Saab in 1998. The topic of the Ashra was Islam & Modern Age. The majlis was recited on 1.5.1998.

If you get this Majlis, Maulana starts reciting this tradition from the 45th min.

I have the this majlis in video format. Tats y i m unable to upload it.

Hmm...bro Muntazir I think they're looking for a direct reference. Citing a majlis of a scholar in which he mentions it would be a secondary source :) , unless that is he cited the reference as he speaks.

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(salam)
There's no problem with the average speed of an arabian horse being 22mph

I'd say there was, as you have no idea of the distance measure. Why not 21 or 23mph? Or 35mph?

What's the average speed of a human being?

(salam)

Lets bear in mind the following from the OP:

It was like a challenge to Imam Ali (a.s.) to answer him in a convincing manner without confusing him.

I have no intention to enter a mass discussion on something so trivial, because I have no problem believing such a hadith, whether the hadith be true or not, as Ali Ibn Abi Talib (as) has made such statements before and this one would come as no surprise.

Let's look at the reality of the statement and its purpose. We are sitting here judging the situation of the common folk of around 7th-8th century arabia with our 21st century knowledge and understanding. The case is simply that a man bumped into the Imam (as) and happened to ask such a question so the Imam responded in words that are appropriate and comprehensible to this man - not to you and me nor for this day and age.

Imam Ali (as) could have provided a detailed answer but he was not posing a theory or proclaiming a discovery. Given the circumstances and the 'purpose' of such a statement, we should not expect detailed laboratory reports.

The fact of the matter being that the statement, providing its authenticity, is astonishing since this knowledge was not available until 1961.

Thanks,

Wassalaam.

Edited by MajiC

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Where do you think the number 22 mph came from?

Bro, you answered your question yourself :

The top speed of an Arabian horse is about 45 mph

You just said that the TOP speed of an average Arabian horse is 45mph. Now since here we are talking about a HUGE time of 500 years we will have to make some assumptions. And the most appropriate one would be that if a horse were to continuously travel for 500 years it would travel equally between its maximum and lowest possible speeds. Theoretically, I dont believe there can be an exact minimum speed of a horse. But we can say that THEORETICALLY it can approach zero. (Again, I am saying this because its a matter of 500 years and we are assuming that the horse NEVER stops, BUT still the min speed ~ 0). So the average speed would be :

(45 + 0)/2 = 22.5 mph

So even if someone wroked their way backwards to plug in 22 in the equation, it turns out that this would be the most appropriate value when taking into account such a huge distance. Imam Ali must have made this assumption.

Edited by wassee mohammad

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(salam)

*sigh* I just knew that someone was going to use this argument.

45 mph, that's roughly twice 22 mph!

And an average is bit like a middle isn't it?

So this is what Hazrat Ali (as) must have meant. Yep. Definitely.

And the most appropriate one would be that if a horse were to continuously travel for 500 years it would travel equally between its maximum and lowest possible speeds

Why Wassee Mohammed? Why would he need to assume this? This is at least as tenuous as just plugging in 22 mph and calling it an average speed. There isn't, nor has there ever been a horse that could cover 528 miles in a day. This is a nonsense.

If you wanted to be precise and to remove any and all doubt, why not say, "If a horse gallops at top speed non-stop day and night for 236.5 years then he will reach the moon"? No ambiguity there.

Actually better still, why not have a man sprinting at top speed for about 500 years? That ought to do it.

Why do you think it was important to have this ambiguity?

All this tortuous stuff about half the top speed being the walking speed of an Arabian horse that never quite comes to rest but spends the other half of the time sprinting, so that it covers unfeasibly large distances in short times is just spinebusting apologetics gone crazy.

I don't know - maybe you don't, or can't, see that. Maybe that just comes from me being on the other side of the divide. I'm concerned here because it may mean that ultimately I'll never be able to have meaningful dialogues with Muslims on such matters.

It could just be a weak hadith you know, I'm not necessarily claiming that Hazrat Ali (as) was actually wrong.

In abeyance

Gulliver

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(salam) Majic!

Actually, I agree with you. I had no intention of turning this into a big discussion either, so I'm going to bow out of this thread now and stick to lurking on this forum, but posting on the Atheism forum.

2 short comments before I go:

Comments like this:

I have no problem believing such a hadith, whether the hadith be true or not

I really hope was a typo.

This mess could have been avoided if the hadith was for a man sprinting non-stop at top speed for 500 years. That would still have been relevant to 7th - 8th century arabs, been relatively precise and avoided ambiguity. Yet this wasn't said - and it makes me wonder why.

In communicado

Gulliver

Edited by Gulliver

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This mess could have been avoided if the hadith was for a man sprinting non-stop at top speed for 500 years. That would still have been relevant to 7th - 8th century arabs, been relatively precise and avoided ambiguity. Yet this wasn't said - and it makes me wonder why.

In communicado

Gulliver

(salam)

If the hadith is authentic and provided it has existed for hundreds of years, at least before the first reasonable estimate for the distance between the earth and sun, which was made in 1671 of 87,000,000 miles, then an analogy which included the numbers 500 years (time) and 22mph (speed) is amazing and it's accuracy is undeniable, whether one likes to admit so or not.

Given the circumstances and to avoid complexity the Imam (as) used the simple formula: Distance = Speed x Time.

We may look at this today and righfully point to the fact that a horse cannot "literally" travel that distance without a "break" and that average speed varies, but the reason that this ambiguity exists is made clear when we bear in mind that the Imam (as) was addressing a common man of 8th Century arabia, who was probably ignorant of the real mathematics involved, given these circumstances the Imam (as) chose his words so as to avoid confusion. Thus, if we look at this hadith with an unprejuidaced mind we cannot deny it's accuracy, and providing it's authenticity, we cannot deny it's credit.

Thanks,

Wassalaam.

Edited by MajiC

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Salaam Allaikum

The Tradition as quoted by Ali (as) was : If an Arab horse starts walking from here, he will reach the moon in 500 years.

The other part of my post here onwards was the explanation of this hadith by Maulana Sadiq Hasan Saab. Imam (as) didnot mention the figure of 22mph.

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Guest DjibrilCisse

Allahu Akbar.

I was almost crying of hapiness when I read the post, then I almost cried of pity when I read the posts of all the haters.

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Salaam Allaikum

The Tradition as quoted by Ali (as) was : If an Arab horse starts walking from here, he will reach the moon in 500 years.

The other part of my post here onwards was the explanation of this hadith by Maulana Sadiq Hasan Saab. Imam (as) didnot mention the figure of 22mph.

Yes bro...when a reference is requested, you would usually have to cite the hadith book the hadith is taken from (Wasa'il al-Shia, Bihar al-Anwar, al-Kafi, etc), which will then usually provide the chain of narration for the hadith. It's just nice to have the direct source for hadiths, for future reference/use :)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

On an Ismaili site it says:

Once a person asked Ali, "What is the distance between earth and the sun?" Ali said, "Suppose a horse runs day and night without any break from earth to sun, it would take 500 years to reach the sun."

the url is:

http://ismaili.net/histoire/history03/history347.html

I couldn't find a primary source for the hadith.

Hur

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