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Charlie Chan

[Merged Posts] Uday & Qusay Hussein dead?

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i am against their burial ceremony i dont even want them burried on the holy sand of iraq or anywhere else

but the sooner they are in their graves the sooner they will be punished for all their disobiedience towards Allah swt and sins.

is it true that Udday clubbed a man to death in the middle of a banquet? i heard he killed the man (in a party!) who intruduced Saddam to his second wife, Udday being the son of the first was a little upset...

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Iraqis that may have feared a return of the Tikriti family, may no longer fear them, and consequently, they may become even more opposed to the U.S. occupation, since they no longer have any concern about the possibility of the former regime returning to re-exert its repressive authority, as it did after the uprising of 1991.

agree 110%

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As Iraqis view pictures of Saddam’s dead sons, doubts linger,

attacks continue

By MATT MOORE

Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) — The United States released grisly photos

Thursday to convince Iraqis that Saddam Hussein’s sons were dead

and to weaken support for an anti-American insurgency. But some

Iraqis saw the pictures of the bloodied, bearded men as a ruse.

The photographs of Odai and Qusai Hussein were immediately

broadcast by U.S.-sponsored Iraqi TV, CNN and two Arab satellite

television networks widely viewed in Iraq. The Al-Sa’a newspaper

held its front and back pages open to publish them Friday morning.

“This is a U.S. ploy to try to break the spirit of the

resistance,” said Jassim al-Robai, a computer engineer who was

sharing an ice cream tart with two friends at a restaurant in

Baghdad. After seeing the images, Al-Robai said he wasn’t convinced

that the brothers were killed in a gunbattle with U.S. soldiers.

At a Pentagon news conference, Secretary of Defense Donald H.

Rumsfeld said it was his decision to release photos of the dead

sons and that it was “not a close call.” He did, however,

acknowledge that it ran counter to the U.S. military’s unwritten

convention of not showing images of enemy war dead.

Some in the military preferred the photos of the bloodied bodies

not be publicly released, out of concern for losing the moral high

ground in arguing against such treatment of U.S. war dead in future

conflicts.

Rumsfeld likened the circumstance to 1989 when Romanian dictator

Nicolae Ceausescu was overthrown and executed. “It was not until

the people of that country saw him — saw his body — that they

actually believed that the fear and the threat that his regime

posed to them was gone,” Rumsfeld said.

Washington had hoped that the deaths of Odai and Qusai would

weaken the insurgency, but an attack on a convoy Thursday killed

three Americans from the division that led the assault on Saddam’s

sons’ hide-out in the northern city of Mosul.

L. Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator of Iraq, said Thursday

that the deaths of Saddam’s sons — and Iraqis’ acceptance of this —

“will, in fact, in time help reduce the security threat to our

forces.”

    “I would not be surprised to see an uptick in violence against

our forces,” said Bremer, standing alongside Rumsfeld at the

Pentagon. “But I think in the long run it will also hopefully

encourage more Iraqis to come and give us information about more

Baathists."

Two U.S.-military photos released Thursday showed a man

identified as Qusai with bruises and blood spots around his eyes.

That face was far more intact than the other, identified as Odai;

the mouth was open and the teeth showing.

The face of what appeared to be Odai, the older brother, was

severely bloodied. A gash ran from his left eye to the right corner

of his mouth, and bruises and blood covered his bald forehead.

Both men were heavily bearded, which left some Iraqis

speculating that they may have been trying mask their identities.

They have been on the run since the regime collapsed April 9.

The photos showed the upper torsos of the men, who were

bare-chested — one lying on bloody, white sheets, the other in what

appeared to be a body bag. Both had their eyes closed, the lids

darkly purpled.

Abbas Fadhil, a 44-year-old barbershop owner in Baghdad, said he

had no doubts after seeing the pictures on Iraqi TV that the

photographs were of the brothers.

“The doubts will remain because the coalition forces didn’t

show them from the front and the sides, didn’t show their

profiles,” he said, adding Qusai’s photograph was a perfect image

of him.

“They should show more pictures to be more convincing,” he

said.

Alla Khalifa, 32, a barber in the shop, said he doubted the

pictures of Odai were authentic because he appeared slightly

overweight.

“Odai is a tall man and thin, but the picture shows him as

short and thick,” he said while shaving a customer’s face.

While some in the Arab world criticized the United States for

releasing what they believed were fake photographs, others argued

that even if they were authentic, releasing them was wrong.

“When Iraq broadcast photos of dead American soldiers, the U.S.

considered that against human rights,” said Jordanian political

analyst Sahar al-Qassem said. “So, why are they violating that now

by showing such inhumane pictures?”

Middle East television stations, magazines and newspapers

regularly run images of the dead and dying — often Arab victims of

Israeli-Palestinian clashes — that are more graphic than

photographs carried in U.S. media. Saudi Arabia and Iran

occasionally publicly execute criminals, saying Islam allows such

displays as a deterrent.

The military paired the death pictures with the brothers’ images

in life for comparison. Also released were X-rays of Odai’s leg

that was severely injured and underwent reconstructive surgery

after an assassination attempt in 1996.

Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said

X-rays, dental records and four former members of Saddam’s regime

had confirmed that the dead men were Saddam’s sons.

Forensics experts said the photographs offered few details to

make specific identifications. Conclusive evidence would need to be

collected in autopsies, they said.

“These photos are not really useful for forensic identification

work,” said Johnnie T. Wilson, a forensics expert in the Kansas

City, Mo., crime laboratory. “They don’t show enough to comment on

how good the work is.”

Odai, 39, and Qusai, 37, were killed in a gunbattle with U.S.

forces after an Iraqi informant tipped the Americans to their

presence, according to the military.

The military has said the brothers and a third man, believed to

have been a bodyguard, were killed Tuesday by TOW missiles fired

into the villa where they were hiding. A fourth person in the

house, believed to be Qusai’s teenage son Mustafa, was shot to

death by troops storming the house after the missiles devastated

it.

An Iraqi tipster led the United States to the brothers, weeks

after the military offered a $15 million reward for information

leading to the capture or death of either.<QA>

The next likely issue is what to do with the remains of Odai and

Qusai.

A U.S. official with the civilian administration running the

country said the group was consulting with the Governing Council of

Iraq on how to bury the bodies. According to Islamic tradition,

Muslims must be buried as soon as possible after their deaths.<QA>

Associated Press writers Hamza Hendawi and Sameer N. Yacoub

contributed to this report.

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Guest Slave of Zahra
I'm sorry, but thats not them.

assalamu alaikum

i do not think it is them but it is hard to tell... bro ali what makes u say that?

UmAli

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It all sounds too silly, 2 of his sons killed in a battle that they CHOSE to fight?

Why on earth would they stay in Iraq knowing everyone out there is out to get them?

Why did Saddam not mention anything with regards to this on his previous tape?

All sounds too fishy.

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Guest Slave of Zahra

assalamu alaikum

bro ali

is there any evidence u would accept?? to prove it is them.. unless it was a muslim source i do not think i could accept american proof .. if say some of the shia clerics confirm it would u then believe it.. i am like u it is just way too convenient if u ask me which no one did..u just seemed to be theonly one besides me who did not believe it..

UmAli

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Salaam alaikum

I don't think I would consider that a "muslim source" <_< All that is is a bunch of men wrapped in a turban supporting a bunch of murders ,rapist and bullys. Whos to say they aren't just going off of the same news reports everyone eles is. Anybody who supports saddam and his son's obviously have no reasoning skills or common sense.

wa salaam

aliya

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I heard a report saying that Tony Blair said that he didnt 'do it'. He never gave the order for the soldiers to kill the Hussien brothers. This shows that the soldiers did know that the villa had the two inside thus they had a viable target and objective. But why kill them? The american and british solders are trained well enough to run Recon and raids into building. These two guys were the best lead the coalition troops had to the where abouts of sadamme and WMDs. It just doesnt make sense thats all.

my thought exactly!

They wasted dozens of missile on the house. I guess they must have wanted to make sure that the body of whoever is inside the house is beyond recognizable so they can pass them off as Uday and Qusay

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I heard a report saying that Tony Blair said that he didnt 'do it'.  He never gave the order for the soldiers to kill the Hussien brothers.  This shows that the soldiers did know that the villa had the two inside thus they had a viable target and objective.  But why kill them?  The american and british solders are trained well enough to run Recon and raids into building.  These two guys were the best lead the coalition troops had to the where abouts of sadamme and WMDs.  It just doesnt make sense thats all.

my thought exactly!

They wasted dozens of missile on the house. I guess they must have wanted to make sure that the body of whoever is inside the house is beyond recognizable so they can pass them off as Uday and Qusay

i dont really think that this is what brother Dhozakar was implying. i mean not that I completely or blindly believe the US government or media (the later of which is the spokesperson for the former) in every soundbite of information that they spew forth, but let's face it, Uday and Qusay (like their father) are not invicible or superhuman, and its quite likely that they were killed in these attacks.

why US troops killed them is probably pretty complicated. in reality, Uday and Qusay are two nobodys, and the only importance attached to them is that which emanates from their father. without him most people wouldnt even know their names.

also, its probably better to kill off some of these high-ranking officials and individuals BECAUSE of what they know (at least the more rebellious among them or those who havent chosen to bend over backwards for the US), particularly about the cuddly and promiscuous US-Iraq liason during the 80's, the sell of chemical and biological agents from the US and other Western countries, the US assistance in aiding Saddam crush the Shi'ite rebellion of 91, and other tidbits of information that could indict the US in a good chunk of Saddam's gruesome crimes.

Edited by Frodo

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Why wouldn't you trust an American source? In America, we have FREEDOM, so independent reporters can speak the truth without fear of punishment... compared to many other countries (like Iraq!) where the government (or at least the former government under Saddam) would kill you for saying something they didn't want you to say. (Remember the Information Minister's insistence that "There are no Americans in Baghdad"?).

Now tell me ~ given these facts, why would you trust an Iraqi source before you would trust an American source? Tariq Aziz himself confirmed the identities of the bodies. Why do you STILL not believe they are dead?

Peace,

The Rock <><

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Salaam,

By suggesting their bodies ought to be cremated or thrown to the dogs, you are no different to them. The differentiating feature between the sons of Saddam and us are that we are shi'a Muslims and thus ought to practise what we preach.

They will have to account for their sins to Allah, just as we will - meanwhile unless they publicly rejected Allah they are still Muslims of some sort or other, albeit very bad ones - and thus still ought to have Islamic burials in accordance with Quran and Sunnah.

Wa Salaam

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Salam,

however worst they were, they were muslims and proper burial must be accorded.

Who knows what actually happened and they may died with shahadah and the brothers may have repented and only Allah knows.

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Guest Slave of Zahra
Why wouldn't you trust an American source? In America, we have FREEDOM, so independent reporters can speak the truth without fear of punishment... compared to many other countries (like Iraq!) where the government (or at least the former government under Saddam) would kill you for saying something they didn't want you to say. (Remember the Information Minister's insistence that "There are no Americans in Baghdad"?).

Now tell me ~ given these facts, why would you trust an Iraqi source before you would trust an American source? Tariq Aziz himself confirmed the identities of the bodies. Why do you STILL not believe they are dead?

Peace,

The Rock <><

assalamu alaikum

show me where i said iraqi source.. i said muslim source meaning shia cleric as in like seyyed seestani for example... and no i do not trust american news sorry i am an american and they do lie whether u want to admit it or not .. i have had my share of run ins with the politics of this govt and i have never commited a crime nor have i ever done anything to harm anyone ... freedom is an illusion in this country .... u r free as long as u conform... i live in the bible belt south so trust me on this i have first hand experience so unless some reliable 3rd party as sis roya said provides some dna .. then and only then will i believe it...

UmAli

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Only question I have ... what's the deal with the BAD QUALITY?! I could have used my 200 dollar digital camera and gotten a better shot! Sheesh.

Seriously, why are the pictures so grainy.

Oh, btw YAHOO has clearer pictures, but not any better.

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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We've got a big enough crisis in the US about misuse of the intelligence we had without compounding it by throwing away the opportunity to get more. So what if they didn't surrender. So what if they shot back.

These were not foot soldiers, these were the sons of Saddam, an intelligence gold mine. They were undoubtedly well versed in any guerilla resistance plans, wmd caches, party infrastructure, the list goes on.

Look, we were willing to spend $30 million to get these guys because of who they were and what they knew. Apparently we'll be paying out the reward. Too bad all we get for it is a few grisly pictures of them spread out on a plastic sheet.

Freaking incompetence strikes again.

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bis.gif

(salam)

These pictures are not enough evidence and they will never be. They are unreliable and they are completely different than how they look like.

Even if they provide us with thousands of pictures we won't believe them. Besides, I don't prefer that the arrogant coward Americans kill Saddam (LA) and his criminal family, I prefer they get killed by their victims, the Iraqi people, NOT by their accomplice in the crime. They should be prosecuted and executed by Iraqi people in an Islamic court according to the Islamic law.

If we are true Muslims and real Mujahideen, we would have killed them with our hands long time ago, not rely on the enemy of Allah and our enemy, the Great Satan, to do an evil favor for us.

Moreover, I don't believe that America would kill the criminal Saddam and his family. Saddam and his criminal gang have been taken to a safe haven before the war has started.

This is another OBL game!

Sayed Hashimi

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Seriously, why are the pictures so grainy.

LOL.

Very good point.

I'm telling you, someone took an old dead fish and rubbed it all over this issue.

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Salam,

however worst they were, they were muslims and proper burial must be accorded.

Who knows what actually happened and they may died with shahadah and the brothers may have repented and only Allah knows.

I know that y'all are muslims, but I think one might look to history, in this case Christian/German history.

Martin Luther, had started the Protestant reformation in Europe during the early 16th century, and this had also led to a series of civil wars in Germany, then called the Holy Roman Empire. During one of these conflicts, in 1546, Martin Luther had died in Eisleben, which was subsequently overrun by the army of the Catholic Emperor, Charles V.

Some of Charles's Catholic supporters suggested that he desecrate the tomb and exhume the body so that the Catholics could make sport of it. The Emperor responded wryly that "I make war on the living, not on the dead." And then commented that "He is already before his judge."

I realize that Uday and Qusai Hussein are not in the same category as Martin Luther - Dr. Luther was not a murderer, pervert, or sadistic rapist, like Saddam Hussein's sons. But to desecrate his tomb was not the proper course of action, not because Luther's offense of splitting Christianity was not grave, but because it was beneath the emperor's dignity to do so.

Personally, I'm not that wrapped up in it - but it is an interesting way of looking at it.

Greg

(I know, I know, I have got to stop with the history- but sometimes I get a little carried away)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I'm sure very soon they will show us a picture of dead Saddam!

yea thtll come just before election day.. Bush re-elected...whata nice plan... :)

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Salam,

I believe you have all missed the point.

This is just a distraction to take light away from America's Justification for war.

America understands that it had no justification for its self proclaimed war and now is trying to find an excuse to justify it. These pictures are just another stunt.

Side note: Bush's popularity is on the slide, then there are pictures of Saddam's sons. Coincidence? I think not.

Bottom Line that we must never forget is that they are still in Iraq.

When are they going to leave. This is the question they want us to forget by tieing us up with these trivial issues.

Regardless of how many sons of Saddam they have killed, Please Brothers and Sisters we musnt forget to keep asking americans When Are you going to Leave?

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July 24, 2003

Many Iraqis Unswayed by Grisly Photos

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 5:40 p.m. ET

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- The United States released grisly photos Thursday to convince Iraqis that Saddam Hussein's sons were dead and to weaken support for an anti-American insurgency. But some Iraqis saw the pictures of the bloodied, bearded men as a ruse.

The photographs of Odai and Qusai Hussein were immediately broadcast by U.S.-sponsored Iraqi TV, CNN and two Arab satellite television networks widely viewed in Iraq. The Al-Sa'a newspaper held its front and back pages open to publish them Friday morning.

``This is a U.S. ploy to try to break the spirit of the resistance,´´ said Jassim al-Robai, a computer engineer who was sharing an ice cream tart with two friends at a restaurant in Baghdad.

After seeing the images, Al-Robai said he wasn´t convinced that the brothers were killed in a gunbattle with U.S. soldiers.

At a Pentagon news conference, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld said it was his decision to release photos of the dead sons and that it was ``not a close call.´´ He did, however, acknowledge that it ran counter to the U.S. military´s unwritten convention of not showing images of enemy war dead.

Some in the military preferred the photos of the bloodied bodies not be publicly released, out of concern for losing the moral high ground in arguing against such treatment of U.S. war dead in future conflicts.

Rumsfeld likened the circumstance to 1989 when Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu was overthrown and executed. ``It was not until the people of that country saw him -- saw his body -- that they actually believed that the fear and the threat that his regime posed to them was gone,´´ Rumsfeld said.

Washington had hoped that the deaths of Odai and Qusai would weaken the insurgency, but an attack on a convoy Thursday killed three Americans from the division that led the assault on Saddam's sons' hide-out in the northern city of Mosul.

L. Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator of Iraq, said Thursday that the deaths of Saddam's sons -- and Iraqis' acceptance of this -- ``will, in fact, in time help reduce the security threat to our forces.´´

``I would not be surprised to see an uptick in violence against our forces,´´ said Bremer, standing alongside Rumsfeld at the Pentagon. ``But I think in the long run it will also hopefully encourage more Iraqis to come and give us information about more Baathists.´´

Two U.S.-military photos released Thursday showed a man identified as Qusai with bruises and blood spots around his eyes. That face was far more intact than the other, identified as Odai; the mouth was open and the teeth showing.

The face of what appeared to be Odai, the older brother, was severely bloodied. A gash ran from his left eye to the right corner of his mouth, and bruises and blood covered his bald forehead.

Both men were heavily bearded, which left some Iraqis speculating that they may have been trying mask their identities. They have been on the run since the regime collapsed April 9.

The photos showed the upper torsos of the men, who were bare-chested -- one lying on bloody, white sheets, the other in what appeared to be a body bag. Both had their eyes closed, the lids darkly purpled.

Abbas Fadhil, a 44-year-old barbershop owner in Baghdad, said he had no doubts after seeing the pictures on Iraqi TV that the photographs were of the brothers.

``The doubts will remain because the coalition forces didn´t show them from the front and the sides, didn´t show their profiles,´´ he said, adding Qusai´s photograph was a perfect image of him.

``They should show more pictures to be more convincing,´´ he said.

Alla Khalifa, 32, a barber in the shop, said he doubted the pictures of Odai were authentic because he appeared slightly overweight.

``Odai is a tall man and thin, but the picture shows him as short and thick,´´ he said while shaving a customer´s face.

While some in the Arab world criticized the United States for releasing what they believed were fake photographs, others argued that even if they were authentic, releasing them was wrong.

``When Iraq broadcast photos of dead American soldiers, the U.S. considered that against human rights,´´ said Jordanian political analyst Sahar al-Qassem said. ``So, why are they violating that now by showing such inhumane pictures?´´

Middle East television stations, magazines and newspapers regularly run images of the dead and dying -- often Arab victims of Israeli-Palestinian clashes -- that are more graphic than photographs carried in U.S. media. Saudi Arabia and Iran occasionally publicly execute criminals, saying Islam allows such displays as a deterrent.

The military paired the death pictures with the brothers' images in life for comparison. Also released were X-rays of Odai's leg that was severely injured and underwent reconstructive surgery after an assassination attempt in 1996.

Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said X-rays, dental records and four former members of Saddam's regime had confirmed that the dead men were Saddam's sons.

Forensics experts said the photographs offered few details to make specific identifications. Conclusive evidence would need to be collected in autopsies, they said.

``These photos are not really useful for forensic identification work,´´ said Johnnie T. Wilson, a forensics expert in the Kansas City, Mo., crime laboratory. ``They don´t show enough to comment on how good the work is.´´

Odai, 39, and Qusai, 37, were killed in a gunbattle with U.S. forces after an Iraqi informant tipped the Americans to their presence, according to the military.

The military has said the brothers and a third man, believed to have been a bodyguard, were killed Tuesday by TOW missiles fired into the villa where they were hiding. A fourth person in the house, believed to be Qusai's teenage son Mustafa, was shot to death by troops storming the house after the missiles devastated it.

An Iraqi tipster led the United States to the brothers, weeks after the military offered a $15 million reward for information leading to the capture or death of either.

The next likely issue is what to do with the remains of Odai and Qusai.

A U.S. official with the civilian administration running the country said the group was consulting with the Governing Council of Iraq on how to bury the bodies.

According to Islamic tradition, Muslims must be buried as soon as possible after their deaths.

------

Associated Press writers Hamza Hendawi and Sameer N. Yacoub contributed to this report.

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Ok, here is some better quality pictures:

mdf322963.jpg

mdf322978.jpg

Why does the beard look so damn FAKE!

I have seen that Talibani beard before. Didnt Mullah Omar sported a similar beard (the on which is attached on Uday face)?

What a coincidence! Just when US whack them they are sporting a beard. Islamphobic.

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