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mwajeeh

Four Imams Of Ahl-e-sunnah

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AOA,

I HAVE A QUESTION TO MY SUNNI BROTHERS IN THEIR BELIEF YOU ARE SAID TO BE ON THE RIGHT PATH IF U FOLLOW ANY ONE OF THEIR FOUR IMAM i.e. ABU HANIFAH,MALIK,SHAFAI OR HANBALI.MY QUESTION IS THAT WHO HAS DECIDE THAT FOLLOW ANY ONE ALL R RIGHT COZ IN THEIR TEACHING THAT IS NOT MENTIONED BUT WE FIND ABU HANIFAH IS CONDEMED BY THE THREE LATER IMAMS ETC.IF IT IS DECIDED BY THE FIFTH PERSON WHO IS HE AND BY DOING THIS WE FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF IMAMS .

RGDS

WAJEEH :(

Edited by mwajeeh

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AOA,

I HAVE A QUESTION TO MY SUNNI BROTHERS IN THEIR BELIEF YOU ARE SAID TO BE ON THE RIGHT PATH IF U FOLLOW ANY ONE OF THEIR FOUR IMAM i.e. ABU HANIFAH,MALIK,SHAFAI OR HANBALI.MY QUESTION IS THAT WHO HAS DECIDE THAT FOLLOW ANY ONE ALL R RIGHT COZ IN THEIR TEACHING THAT IS NOT MENTIONED BUT WE FIND ABU HANIFAH IS CONDEMED BY THE THREE LATER IMAMS ETC.IF IT IS DECIDED BY THE FIFTH PERSON WHO IS HE AND BY DOING THIS WE FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF IMAMS .

RGDS

WAJEEH :(

Sallam u Alaikum

If you are talkign about Khatib Baghdadis book where slander is commited against the Imams then that book has been rejected, censored and refuted many times in various Sunni books.

Sallam u alaikum

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AOA,

I HAVE A QUESTION TO MY SUNNI BROTHERS IN THEIR BELIEF YOU ARE SAID TO BE ON THE RIGHT PATH IF U FOLLOW ANY ONE OF THEIR FOUR IMAM i.e. ABU HANIFAH,MALIK,SHAFAI OR HANBALI.MY QUESTION IS THAT WHO HAS DECIDE THAT FOLLOW ANY ONE ALL R RIGHT COZ IN THEIR TEACHING THAT IS NOT MENTIONED BUT WE FIND ABU HANIFAH IS CONDEMED BY THE THREE LATER IMAMS ETC.IF IT IS DECIDED BY THE FIFTH PERSON WHO IS HE AND BY DOING THIS WE FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF IMAMS .

RGDS

WAJEEH :(

Sallam u Alaikum

If you are talkign about Khatib Baghdadis book where slander is commited against the Imams then that book has been rejected, censored and refuted many times in various Sunni books.

Sallam u alaikum

I have a question leading off of that. Since Sunni is not a sect, but a group of sects, HAnbali, Maliki, Shafi and Hanafi, and the Prophet pbuh says only ONE sect will go to Jannah, which of these sects are on the truth, because the Imams differ in their rulings and cannot be all correct.

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why dont u people read about the evolution of fiqh b4 posting rubbish, 1st off they r NOT sects they r schools of thought, all the imaams had different guidelines on deducing hadiths and implementing them. no imam condemmed another imam thats [Edited Out]!!!! all the imams have written that if u find a hadith that i have contradictory ruling 4 take the hadith. all the hadiths used by the imams come from the very same source and that is our rasool pbuh

i dont want 2 enter in2 a long debate cause its pointless with u lot all i can advise is u read about fiqh 1 excellent book is called the evolution of fiqh by abu ameenah bilal phillips

p.s poiyut u must be a qadi ur givin out taqfirs like no mans business, make urself known in public this ummah needs qadis :blink:

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Sallam u Alaikum

Allow me to answer these questions.

Brother Najm said it correct. These are not SECTS but are MAdhabs who are officially recognized as being correct. A Sunni can follow any of these Madhads. These MAdhabs agree in 85 percent of their rulings.

The only reason there are differences is because for e.g Imam MAlik Adapted the Amal of Medina NOT because he thought the others were wrong but to him the Fuqaha and Hadith Scholars of Medina were more sound and he considered medina to be the centre of religious teaching and those who followed the Prophet best.

Similarly, if we take Imam Shafii we see he has a ruling saying, "Whoever touches the hair, skin or nails of women his Wudhu is broken." The other 3 Madhabs do not do this. Why? The simple reason is because Imam Shafii has taken precaution and decided to apply the Stricter ruling even though the proof may be weaker. This does not mean he rejects the ruling of Abu Hanifa or Malik ( I cannot mention Ahmad as he came afterwards). Imam Shafii considers them a Dispensation i.e meaning a less stricter ruling.

The Question the Sister asked:

Yes they did come after the prophet around 80 years after him i beleive. Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam MAlik both met notable Sahabas.

Sallam u Alaikum

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Sallam u Alaikum

Dear brothers, it seems you do not understand what im trying to say. Ill take a different approach.

The 4 Imams have a difference in opinion the same way your Marjaa does. Just like Imam Khameini may not agree with a ruling by Ayatullah Shirazi, or Fadlullah with Sistani. This doesnot mean that they are different "Sects".

As a friend of mine told me The fact that the Imams of the Sunnis didnt agree with anothers ruling does not prove that there are 4 sects.

Sect means when one side does not agree with the parts of FUNDAMENTAL belief of teh other side, in a way that he cannot call the other side a true BELIEVER. The Fundamental beleifs of all these Imams is the same, it is only in secondary matters that they may disagree on just like all the MArjaa-e-Taqleed believe in the 12 imams, their divinity etc but may differentiate regarding other secondary matters.

Sallam u Alaikum

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(bismillah)

(salam)

if we take Imam Shafii we see he has a ruling saying, "Whoever touches the hair, skin or nails of women his Wudhu is broken."

Yeah, that'll do loads of good showing that Islam doesn't discriminate against women. :rolleyes:

I'll bet that came from an Abu Hurairah hadith.

Edited by Ali786

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(bismillah)

(salam)

if we take Imam Shafii we see he has a ruling saying, "Whoever touches the hair, skin or nails of women his Wudhu is broken."

Yeah, that'll do loads of good showing that Islam doesn't discriminate against women. :rolleyes:

I'll bet that came from an Abu Hurairah hadith.

Sallam

The same way people think Shias "Use" the Ahly Kitab because they can only do Muta with them and cant marry them permanently liek Sunnis can. Anyway , wasnt this off topic? Also as i mentioned (or may not have ) Imam Shafii says the evidence is weaker but he has applied it as a precaution.

Sallam

Edited by salmany

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(bismillah)

(salam)

The same way people think Shias "Use" the Ahly Kitab because they can only do Muta with them and cant marry them permanently liek Sunnis can.

A poor, nonsensical example. Tell me how this is the same as saying a dog, donkey, or woman in front of you will invalidate your namaaz.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

The same way people think Shias "Use" the Ahly Kitab because they can only do Muta with them and cant marry them permanently liek Sunnis can.

A poor, nonsensical example. Tell me how this is the same as saying a dog, donkey, or woman in front of you will invalidate your namaaz.

Sallam u Alaikum

Brother the topic is about "The 4 Sunni Imams"

Sallam u Alaikum

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The 4 Imams have a difference in opinion the same way your Marjaa does. Just like Imam Khameini may not agree with a ruling by Ayatullah Shirazi, or Fadlullah with Sistani. This doesnot mean that they are different "Sects".

AoA,

Ok Brother im agree that they r like r Marajaas and they can differ in their thoughts but my brother they never condemed each other and we offer pray on a single mosque and their is no difference of way of offering namaz but on ur side it doesn't happen did they also do Qyas :( there and if they r not 4 sects why their mosques are build side by side why u didn't offer a pray on a single place.

Rgds

Wajeeh

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Sallam u Alaikum

your question regarding the Prayer. It is a fact that all 4 madhabs can pray side by side and they do. Just a few weeks i was praying with a Maliki, who pray with their hands down. Now, why do we pray different? Let me explain:

Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafii and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal all pray with their hands folded.

However, Imam Malik prays with his hands down, liek Shias. However, this is not because he says praying with hands folded is wrong. If he though this he would not have included hadith in his book Muwatta which states the Prophet initially prayed with hands folded. Imam MAlik was very strict in regards to where he took his rulings from. He concentrated mainly and followed what the people of Medina did and what the prophet did in Medina. The prophet, according to some traditions prayed with his hands folded in MEcca and then when he went to Medina he prayed with his hands down. Since Imam Malik follows the Amal-e-Medina he accepted and adopted the Shia way of praying.

I hope that clears that out.

Sallam u alaikum

Edited by salmany

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AoA,

Brother Yesterday i read the book "Introduction Of Islam" by "Abu Khair Khasafi" a hanafi scholor,in the chapter of "Introduction to fiqh-e-islami" he says #3 principle of fiqh is Qayas (and u says that once who is doing Qayas taking help 4rm satan),wat it means is it small diference.and after 80yrs pls point out the name of the sahbi that is alive and wat his age and how many yrs the imam take lesson 4rm that sahabi,and y one imam is called imam-e-azam coz if u know that a person is the gr8 scholor in their counterpart then u should follow him,and btw abu hanifa is also known for his Qayas and he is the master of Qayas.

Ahl'ul Sunnah's recognized scholar Imam Fakhruddin Razi, writes as follows in "Risalaah thurjeeya Madhhab Shaafee" as taken from "Isthaksa Al Alhfam" page 233:

"Imam Ahmad Hanbal was asked about Imam Malik. The reply was 'his Hadith are correct but the narrators are weak.' Then someone asked him about Imam Shafi'i, the reply was, 'his Hadith and opinion is correct.' Then someone asked about Imam Abu Hanifa, he said "Nauman's opinion and his hadith bear no value'."

Rgds

Wajeeh

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Guest abaleada
madhab = sects

A madhhab in Sunni Islam is based on the methodological teachings of one of four classical Sunni leaders who became accepted as mujtahids. Shortly after the fourth was developed, consensus was reached among Sunni `ulama to declare an end to the age of major ijtihad, keeping ijtihad thereafter within the bounds of the methods set out by one of the four major Sunni mujtahids. These methods, btw, differ only after three or four. Since then, the differences between the madhahib are similar to the differences that exist between the maraja of Shi`i Islam. The benefit of shi`i Islam is that no-one has declared an end to ijtihad.

If we would stop slinging slurpy slogans around and try to learn about each other, we would actually get somewhere. Unfortunately, we let our egos get in the way. A`udhu bi rabbi nas...min al jinati wa nas.

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Guest abaleada
Sect means when one side does not agree with the parts of FUNDAMENTAL belief of teh other side, in a way that he cannot call the other side a true BELIEVER. The Fundamental beleifs of all these Imams is the same, it is only in secondary matters that they may disagree on just like all the MArjaa-e-Taqleed believe in the 12 imams, their divinity etc but may differentiate regarding other secondary matters.

(salam)

bro I don't know, think that the definition might lie somewhere in between; Shi`i and Sunni have at core three central beliefs (Allah, Prophecy, Hereafter) from which otehr fundamental and obligatory beliefs are based...after thamt many fundamentals are similar...can you explain more?

Edited by abaleada

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Firstly brother, I do not think any of them do Qiyas because it was first practiced by Shaitaan and is rejected.

(salam)

??

Abu Hanifah?

¿¿

Sallam u Alaikum

Abu Hanifa practiced the Ra'y not Qiyas. Qiyas was practiced by the Zahiri school of thought.

Sallam u Alaikum

*Note : Qiyas was rejected by the Zahiris and practiced by Imam Al Azam and the othe rMadhabs.

Edited by salmany

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Abu Hanifa practiced the Ra'y not Qiyas. Qiyas was practiced by the Zahiri school of thought.

I don't want to sound rude bro, but do you know what Qiyas is?

Qiyas - using one mas'ala and applying it to a similar mas'ala.

For example,

Is salaat greater or fasting?

Of course salaat. But when a women menstruates she has to make up for fasts but not salaat. Abu Hanifa did not agree with this logic, and said, if I'm not mistaken, that a women has to make up for her salaat as well. That is qiyas.

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Sallam u Alaikum

Qiyas is Analogical deduction and Ra'y is Juridical opinion.

I really dont know the similarity between the two as i havent read about then indepth.

Abu Hanifa i beleive did Qiyas, but Rarely EG

Al-Baqir asks Abu Hanifah if he is the one who is changing the Deen of his (al-Baqir's) grandfather through the use of Qiyas. Abu Hanifah denies that he is changing the Deen. In order to demonstrate the falsehood of the rumours, he then goes on his knees in front of Imam al-Baqir and uses the comparison between, (1) the share of a man and a woman in the spoils of war; (2) fasting and prayer with regard to a woman in menstruation having to pay in the former and not the latter; (3) urine and semen in respect of the method of purification for either one.

After this lucid demonstration of his usage of Qiyas only where there is no textual evidence, and strictly adhering to the authority of text where it exists, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir stands up and kisses Imam Abu Hanifah on his forehead. (Manaqib Abi Hanifah by al-Kardari, p. 99)

According to Shias something else happened, but we consider that a forgery.

Sallam u Alaikum

Edited by salmany

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Firstly brother, I do not think any of them do Qiyas because it was first practiced by Shaitaan and is rejected.

(salam)

??

Abu Hanifah?

¿¿

Sallam u Alaikum

Abu Hanifa practiced the Ra'y not Qiyas. Qiyas was practiced by the Zahiri school of thought.

Sallam u Alaikum

Sallam u alaikum

I think i have spoken here without prior knowledge and i would liek to clear this matter out.

Qiyas is not rejected. It was practiced rarely by the schoalrs when nothing was mentioned in the Quran or sunnah. Qiyas can be carried out only in a Shariah governed state when a solution to problem cannot be found through Quran, Sunnah and Ijma.

This can confirm Qiyas' authentication that when Prophet Muhammad chose Muaz bin Jabal as Governor, he asked him what he will do if a problem rises. He said he will follow the Quran, and if it is not clear there then will consult Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) and in case if it fails to satisfy then he will use his own judgment (Qiyas). Prophet Muhammad encouraged him on listening to his reply.

Another hadith tells:

“Judge upon the book of Allah, upon the Sunnah of the Prophet and if you do not find it in that, then use your personal opinion”.

You should know that Qiyas is a type of Ijtihad in a way just like Masalaha and Istihsan and the laws derived from Qiyas is weaker then those from the Quran and Sunnah.

I also mentioned that the Zahiris did Qiyas, but i was actually mistaken. Zahiris were actually the ones who rejected Qiyas and made arguements against it which were all refuted.

One must also know that although Qiyas is legally valid it is not permissible under some conditions.Hanafis say that Qiyas is applicable to "Tazir" penalties which have been laid down by Parliament/Courts and not by Quran and Sunnah specifically... but not to Hadud punishments prescribed in the Quran and the Sunnah and so on.

I apologize for my mistake.

Sallam u Alaikum

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AoA,

Brother

First u say

Firstly brother, I do not think any of them do Qiyas because it was first practiced by Shaitaan and is rejected

then

Qiyas is not rejected. It was practiced rarely by the schoalrs when nothing was mentioned in the Quran or sunnah. Qiyas can be carried out only in a Shariah governed state when a solution to problem cannot be found through Quran, Sunnah and Ijma.

:D

????????????????????????????????????????

which one is the right one brother or a new fatwa is issued by any of 4 imam :cry:

or u trying 2 say that scholors=satan :(

and ur comments req. on this coz it is not 4rm baghdadi books

Imam Fakhruddin Razi, writes as follows in "Risalaah thurjeeya Madhhab Shaafee" as taken from "Isthaksa Al Alhfam" page 233:

"Imam Ahmad Hanbal was asked about Imam Malik. The reply was 'his Hadith are correct but the narrators are weak.' Then someone asked him about Imam Shafi'i, the reply was, 'his Hadith and opinion is correct.' Then someone asked about Imam Abu Hanifa, he said "Nauman's opinion and his hadith bear no value'."

Rgds

Wajeeh

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Sallam u Alaikum

Yes i was mistaken as i said. Qiyas is a part of our Deen. I actually heard the other statement from somewhere else and didnt check it.

As for your last hadith, this was the same thing referred to in Khatib Baghdadis book. I think this may just have been a copy from his book. It has been refuted various times and is rejected.

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AoA,

No Brother it is not 4rm Khatib Baghdadis book. neither the below ref.

Ghazali's Mutahawwal, Shafi'i's Nuqtu'sh-Sharifa, Zamakhshari's Rabiu'l-Abrar, and Ibn Jauzi's Muntazim. Imam Ghazali says in his Mutahawwal, "There are many mistakes in Abu Hanifa's work. He had no knowledge of etymology, grammar, or hadith." He also writes, "Since he had no knowledge of hadith, he relied on his own conjecture. The first being who acted on conjecture was Satan."
Jarullah Zamakhshari, the author of Tafsir-e-Kashshaf and one of your pious ulema, writes in Rabiu'l-Abrar that Yusuf Bin Asbat said: "Abu Hanifa rejected at least 400 hadith of the Prophet of Islam." Yusuf remarked that "Abu Hanifa said: 'Had the Prophet of Islam known me, he would have accepted many of my sayings.'"
:(

n u didn't asnwer my last querry which is

fter 80yrs pls point out the name of the sahbi that is alive and wat his age and how many yrs the imam take lesson 4rm that sahabi,and y one imam is called imam-e-azam coz if u know that a person is the gr8 scholor in their counterpart then u should follow him

Rgds

Wajeeh

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Guest abaleada

(bismillah)

(salam)

Salmany, bhai, a homework for you: find some of the texts about which you told me affirming the unity and respect among the four imams of the Sunni madhahib. If you need a jumpstart, then google "site:http://www.sunnah.org tawassul.org" without the quotation marks. Once there, do a ctrl+f on "hanifa" without the quotation marks. But that's only if you need a jump start. You do have a clip about Imams Shafi`i and Malik.

Barakallahu fikum

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Guest abaleada

(bismillah)

(salam)

As far as I have heard, doesn't that ruling concern touching an already ghayr-mahram female?

(bismillah)

(salam)

if we take Imam Shafii we see he has a ruling saying, "Whoever touches the hair, skin or nails of women his Wudhu is broken."

Yeah, that'll do loads of good showing that Islam doesn't discriminate against women. :rolleyes:

I'll bet that came from an Abu Hurairah hadith.

Edited by abaleada

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As far as I have heard, doesn't that rulings concern touching an already ghayr-mahram female?

(bismillah)

(salam)

if we take Imam Shafii we see he has a ruling saying, "Whoever touches the hair, skin or nails of women his Wudhu is broken."

Yeah, that'll do loads of good showing that Islam doesn't discriminate against women. :rolleyes:

I'll bet that came from an Abu Hurairah hadith.

Sallam

I can see i had made some erroneous claims, Praise be to Allah who increased my knowledge.

As for the touching of the female, it is only touching of one who is not your Mahram.

The word used in the verse: "Or if you touched women" is Lam and some of the Ulema have stated that Lam can refer to touching with ones hand. There are two more verses in the Qur'an using the form lamasa, which also means to touch; one of them is clearly a reference to physical touch, (6:7), but the other (72:8) means to "stretch towards" or "reach."

Lastly the Hadith is not from Abu Hur but of Malik ibn Shahab - Salim bin Abdullah bin Umar - his father who said:

مالك عن ابن شهاب عن سالم بن عبد الله بن عمر عن أبيه قال :" قبلة الرجل امرأته وجسها بيده من الملامسة , فمن قبل امرأته أو جسها بيده فعليه الوضوء ". وهذا إسناد في نهاية من الصحة كما تراه

-- A mans kissing his wife or touching her with his hand are both considered touch (mulamasa). Therefore, whoever kisses his wife or touches her with his hand, should make wudu.

Edited by salmany

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Guest abaleada

(bismillah)

(salam)

Salmany, bro, you had an answer to my question in your sig file on sunniforums: "Imam Shafi said: People are children before Abu Hanifa in fiqh".

Just because it's summer doesn't mean that you can't have homework bhai. What is the reference for that quote? Do you have any others wehreby the Imams or `ulama of the four madhahib supported each other?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Salmany, bro, you had an answer to my question in your sig file on sunniforums: "Imam Shafi said: People are children before Abu Hanifa in fiqh".

Just because it's summer doesn't mean that you can't have homework bhai. What is the reference for that quote? Do you have any others wehreby the Imams or `ulama of the four madhahib supported each other?

Sallamu Alaikum

al nasu `iyalun `ala abi hanifa fi al fiqh = people (scholars) are all the dependents of Abu Hanifa in fiqh. Dhahabi relates it in Tadhkirat Al huffaz in the chapter on Abu Hanifa.

I had typed up a Biography of Imam Abu Hanifa Recently. Here are some Qutes from it:

a. Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Hussain ibn Fatima Bint Prophet Muhammad:

Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Ali the great grandson of the Prophet Muhammad (Allah Bless him and grant him peace) said:

How commendable are Abu Hanifas manners and how sublime is his skill in Fiqh!

b. Imam Malik ibn Anas ibn Malik

The founder of the Maliki school of thought, Imam Malik is reported to have said when asked about Imam Abu Hanifa:

Yes, I saw him and I saw him to be a man of such caliber that if he claims that this pillar of wood is made of gold he will prove it to you!

c. Imam Shafi Al Hashmi

The founder of the Shafi school of thought, Imam Shafi is reported to have said:

The person who wishes to excel in Fiqh is bound to be in need of Imam Abu Hanifa. He was a person who was divinely guided with Fiqh by Allah. I have not seen a greater Faqih then him.

d. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal

The founder of the Hanabli school of thought, Imam Ahmad is reported to have said:

In terms of Ilm, piety, abstinence from this dunya and preference of the hereafter, Abu Hanifa occupied such a lofty position that no one else could reach. May Allah shower his mercy on him!

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