Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
amazing wonders by allah

Lifting the index finger in tashahud - Question

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

salaam, sorry if i annoy you with all these questions but I seen my sunni friend praying and she raised her index finger during tashahud. I asked her why and she told me that it was when she said lailahailala and it was to express tawheed. Is this also a shia practice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Lifting the index finger up and pointing it towards Qiblah (makkah, which you're already facing) is done in tashahud, because they say that in hadith that the prophet (saw) used to raise his index finger up too.  But I don't know about this hadith's story nor it's authenticity.  I don't know actually whether the hadith said the prophet (saw) was seen lifting his finger up one time, or that he always did that.

I don't think shia scholars have mentioned you have to do that in prayer.  I don't see it's importance either.  As far as I know I haven't seen shia's do it.

Salam.

Edited By Mujahid on 1031646244

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaams

Well when i was from the sunni school of thought, it was to my understanding that the sunni do it to represent that there is only one khuda, hence lifting the index finger.

Was-salam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salaamu alaikum

I was wonderin about that as well

I know an Iraqi shia girl and she lifts her finger and I asked her later, why do you do this? and she said, her grandma does it.

so shes just aopeing granny.

hmm

salaams

baheera

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

can someone please post the proof that this is a fabrication/innovation/etc??

Salaam alaikum,

The following is an excerpt from A Shi'ite Encyclopedia

https://www.al-islam.org/es/node/28078#subject-personality-umar-part-1-creation-new-islamic-law

[Mod Note: Start of quote:]

Subject: The personality of Umar

          (Part 3: More on prayrs)

This concerns pointing the finger during the salat, after reading the recent posts on this issue, a few questions come to my mind

    1- Who instituted this practice ?

    2- Was it practiced by the Prophet (pbuh&hf) ?

    3- If yes, please cite the references !

    4- If no, then how did this come into practice ?

Here is my answer :

    Omar was the one who instituted this practice. As

    far as my knowledge asserts, I have not come across

    a hadith that asserts it's truthfulness. Here is

    the reference

    He [Omar] was saying prayers once when at the verse

    ' Then Serve the Lord of this House ' he pointed

    his finger to the Ka'ba. Shah Waliullah remarks that

    a gesture of this kind is permitted in prayers.

Sunni references:

    - ' Al Faruq ' Life of Umar the great-Second caliph

      of Islam, Volume II of II, page 314

      Shibli Numani, Publishers Sh. Muhammad Ashraf

      Lahore, Pakistan

    - Izalatul Khifa, Volume III of IV, page 346

      Shah Wali Ullah Muhaddith Dehlavi,

      Publishers Qadeemi Kitab Khana, Karachi

      Pakistan.

Also the book ' The Reliance of Traveller ' doesn't mention a hadith in this context (as far as practiced by the Prophet, May Allah Bless him and his progeny) ... If this was practiced by the Prophet(pbuh&hf), please prove it! [Mod Note: End of quote]

-----

However, I have seen references in Shia books about raising the finger, not in salat, but as a sign of bearing witness to the Unity of Allah.  I believe this is what is meant by the action, but it is not allowed in salat, because there is no evidence that the Prophet(pbuh&hp) did this.  We can't add anything new to the salat, even something so small as lifting the finger.

From the book, Al-Imám al-Mahdí, The Just Leader of Humanity

2) The two maids at Imam 'Askarí's residence have related that when the Imam of the Age was born he sat on his legs and raised his finger toward the sky [bearing witness to the Unity of God]. Then he sneezed and said: "Praise be to God, the Lord of the universe."

Ithbát al-hudát, Vol. 7, p. 292; Ithbát al-wa#iyya, p. 197.

From the book,Fatima the Gracious

"Fatima used to speak when she was in her Mother's womb; when she was born, she fell on the ground in a prostrating position with her finger raised." [5] Sirat Al-Muwla, Dhakha'er al-Uqbi.

WaSalaam, Hajar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bismillah

(salam)

Why would simply lifting your finger invalidate a salat? ..when the intention of salat is what's known.

I just wanted to ask if you really thought of this sentence before typing it, brother Mujahid.

If the intention of salat was enough then why dont we pray while eating or pray facing just any place not necessarily the Qiblah.  Anything not mentioned by the Prophet  pbuh  is a bid'a and cannot be taken into consideration.

wa salam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam,

There are lot of ahadith about this in different collections.

Example in Sunan Abu Dawud:

Book 3, Number 0984:

Narrated Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to point with his finger (at the end of the tashahhud) and he would not move it.

Book 3, Number 0986:

Narrated AbuMalik Numayr al-Khuza'i:

I saw the Prophet (peace be upon him) placing his right hand on his right thigh and raising his forefinger curving it a little.

But there are ahadith about this in the collection of Muslim, Nasaa'i, Ahmad, Haakm, ibn Khuzaimah, Ibn al-Jaarood, etc., etc.

If the shias don't have any hadith about this, it's their problem, but this isn't innovation.

was salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salamz

my sunni friend doesn't just hold up his finger, he moves it up and down till he stands up or finishes the salat. I was like, man, why do you do that for? He said, he reackons there are hadith that the rasool used to do it, because shaytan was playing in rasools mind, and making the finger go up and down was a symbol of pushing shaytan down. Like you know those cartoons where a big rock falls on one of the charecters head, and then it keeps bouncing on them till they are burried in the ground, that kinda thing.

i was like, ooooooooo kkkkkkkkkkk

the other one i don't get, is why the sunnis bend their right foot kinda thing. It looks funny cause it makes them lean to the left side. is that a umar thing too???

wassalamz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Bro Hussain, can you also show the hadith from Sahih Muslim, if that one has it too.  Thanks.

How authentic is Abu Dawood?  ...were those hadiths talking about prayer though?

Thanks for the info

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bro Hizbullah, you have a point and I have kept that in mind.  However, you have drastically changed the whole scenario, that is not the same issue.  Coughing and sneezing is allowed during prayer, why wouldn't be lifting your index finger if the meaning of it is only for good.  The intentions/belief is only for good, one thinking that the prophet (saw) did do this.  Anways, this in no way compares to eating or not facing qiblah, as we already know the former is not allowed and the latter is obligatory.

My question was wether doing it or not (lifting the index finger), why would it invalidate your prayer?  I know the prayer must be performed correctly.  But how do we know if the prophet (saw) did or did not do this?  as we see Bro Hussain has some hadiths about it, the next thing is to understand where these hadiths came from.  What they are talking about.  Whether they're reliable.  Allah (swt) can fault us for making a mistake I guess, but a mistake can be of two kinds, intentional and not intentional.  How do we know of these?  knowing for sure.

Salam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salamz,

Brother Mujahid, here is one from Sahih Muslim:

Quote
Book 004, Number 1202:

'Abdullah b. Zubair narrated on the authority of his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sat for supplication, i. e. tashahhud (blessing and supplication), he placed his right hand on his right thigh and his left hand on his left thigh, and pointed with his forefinger, and placed his thumb on his (milddle) finger, and covered his knee with the palm of his left hand.

The Sunan of Abu Dawud is a respected authentic collection, it is one of the so called "Sihah Sitta".

Can you give me some ithna asheri hadith about this topic? What do your sources say about the "jalsa"?

It's interest me. :) Thanks,

was-salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...