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wagwan aight basically, i read about istihalah and im bare confuddled innit. Like what even on earth is happening. SO AS WE KNOW ISTIHALAH MAKES ANY NON HALAL CONSUMPTION PRODUCT, SUCH AS GELATIN, WINE, ETC HALAL 100% SINCE IT IS NOT CONSIDRED THE ORIGINAL PRODUCT ANYMORE VIA CHEMICAL CHANGE OR PRODUCTION. IM NOT CONFUSED ABOUT THIS I ALREADY KNOW THIS BIT READ BELOW PLS: iM CONFUSED ABOUT HOW AM I MEANT TO DETERMINE IF something has gone thru istihalah, for example a gelatin is used in marshmellows, but that gelatin is heated, boiled, baked and blah blah, and a marshmellow clearly looks nothing like gelatin (nor tastes looks or feels like it ) many i have heard sheikhs say that any product saying "gelatin" on the back is halal bcuz its gone thru istihalah I DONT DOUBT THEM NOT SAYING I DO BTW !! SO DONT COME @. ME. WHAT IM SAYING IS... HOW DO I KNOW THAT THING HAS GONE THRU ISTIHALAH IS IT COMMEN SENSE OR MORE INTRICATE MY OPNION CURRENTLY IS THIS ALL products labelled to have gelatin in them are perbissible to eat due to the process of chemical change it undergoes THIS IS ALSO THE OPINION OF LATE AYATOLLAH KHUI (رضي الله عنه) alaamun alaykum, The following question on gelatine and beef fat was kindly answered by Moulana Rizvi. He has provided an extensive discussion on the question of gelatine, and Agha Khui's fatwa on this matter. Wasalaam, Mustafa Rawji Moderator, ABDG-A ___________________________________________________________________ INITIAL QUESTIONS & ANSWERS: Question 1: What is the ruling on Gelatin? Can gelatin derived from cows and pigs be used? Answer RE: Gelatin On the queston of gelatine, I am quoting what I have written in January 1989 in the Shama newsletter produced in Vancouver, BC. I have just added few comments to further clarify the issue. A. What is Gelatine? Gelatine is an animal protein substance having gel-forming properties, and is used primarily in food products. It is derived from collagen, a protein found in animal skin and bone. This means that gelatine can be derived from animal skin or animal bone. B. The Basic Rule of the Shari`ah: The shari`ah rule about animal skin differs from that of animal bone: SKIN: Animal skin or anything made from it can be considered tahir (pak) only if the animal had been slaughtered Islamically. Consequently, the gelatine derived from animal skin would be considered najis unless we know that the animal had been slaughtered Islamically. [Those present-day mujtahids who consider the animal slaughtered unIslamically as tahir but haram -- their opinion does not affect this answer that much because in their opinion, even if that animal skin is tahir, it is still haram for consumption by human beings.] BONE: Animal bone is considered tahir even if the animal had not been slaughtered Islamically. Bones have been exempted from the rule of maytah [i.e., an animal slaughtered unIslamically or died by itself]. However, this does not include the bones of pigs and dogs. (See Minhaju 's-Salihiyn [vol. 1, p. 109 and vol. 2, p. 336] of the late Sayyid al-Khu`i and al-`Urwatu 'l-Wuthqa, p. 20-21) Consequently, the gelatine derived from animal bones (other than pigs and dogs) is tahir even if the animal was not slaughtered Islamically. C. The Practical Problem: Having stated the above, we are faced with a practical problem: The labels on food products do not specify whether the gelatine was derived from animal skin or animal bones. So what should we do? Can we assume that it has been derived from animal bones and consider it tahir or not? When I sent this question to the late Ayatullah al-Khu`i in December 1989, he replied: "Yes, it can be considered tahir." This answer is based on the shari`ah principle that if an item can originate from two sources: one pak and other najis -- in cases of ambiguity, you can assume that it is pak. D. Accepted that it is tahir; but is it also halal? There are some people who would not be satisfied with the answer of Ayatullah al-Khu`i and pose the following question: "Accepted that it is tahir (pak); but is it halal for consumption as food item?" In my question to Ayatullah al-Khu`i, I gave the example of cheese and sweets with gelatine. It is quite obvious that I was asking the late marja` about eating those items, and not just touching and feeling them!!! However, to satisfy those who would like to see the words "halal and religously eatable," I will quote a detailed answer of the Ayatullah al-Khu`i to three questions sent to him from London. Q. Is gelatine derived from dog or pig tahir? Is gelatine derived from halal animals (like cows, goats, etc) but not slaughtered according to shari`a tahir? Is gelatine derived from non-halal animals other than dog or pig, tahir? A. "If a najis or haram matter from any category whatsoever changes into another than its original category, then it is considered tahir as long as it did not come into contact with another source of najasat. And the rule for gelatine in all the three cases is same as what we have mentioned above. "But in case the gelatine does not change, then: "If it is derived from parts of dogs and pigs or an animal which feeds on human excrement and has not been quarantined, then it is haram and najis. "Similarly, [it is haram and najis] if it is derived from those parts of the maytah which are other than its bones. "But if the gelatine is derived from the bones of other than dogs and pigs, and has not become najis because of a secondary najasat, then it is permissible to eat it and eat whatever has been mixed and submerged into it." The last paragraph of Ayatullah al-Khu`i's answer fully supports what I had written in Shama in Janaury 1989. E. Issue of Istihalah in Gelatine: In the first part of Ayatullah Khu'i's answer, he says: "If a najis or haram matter from ANY CATEGORY whatsoever changes into another than its original category, then it is considered tahir as long as it did not come into contact with another source of najasat." This is based on the rule of istihalah -- chemical change which makes a najis item tahir (mutahhirat). To know if such a change occures in the final product known as gelatine, we have to refer to the experts of food industry. After my article was published, a brother from Minnesota, USA, was kind enough to send for me a copy of an hand-out distributed by General Foods (the manufacturer of Jell-o, the gelatin dessert). A paragraph in that hand-out, in my opinion, clearly gives the expert's view about the chemical change (istihalah) which takes place in manufacturing of gelatine. While reading the below quotation, keep in mind that these people do not have the slightest clue about the issue of istihalah in our shari`ah! It says: "It is interesting to note that during manufacture of gelatin, chemical changes take place so that, in the final gelatin product, the composition and identity of the original material is completely eliminated. Because of this, gelatin is not considered a meat food product by the United States government. The plant is under supervision of the Federal Food and Drug Admininstration. If the government considered gelatin a meat food product, the plant would operate under the Meat Inspection Branch of the Department of Agriculture." (From General Foods Corp. New York.) If this is not istihalah, then what is it? In final conclusion, all types of gelatine is tahir and halal. For those interesting in reading my 1989 article on 'RENNET, PEPSIN & GELATINE' may contact my office at: Islamic Education & Information Centre, 135 Sheppard Avenue East, North York, Ontario, Canada M2N 3A6 Tel: (416) 223-2162 Fax: (416) 223-2528 Question 2: A change in the state of a najis substance is deemed to make it halal. Can you elaborate on this? What level of change is required? Is beef fat or other animal fat used in cookies/dougnuts/cakes/fries deemed to have been transformed so as to make it halal? Answer: You are talking about istihalah which we have mentioned above in answer to question no. 1. Istihalah means change or more precisely, a chemical change which places the item under a list which is different from its original grouping. The examples you have mentioned do not qualify for istihalah; and are, therefore, still najis and haram. On details on the issue to taharat and najasat, see my "RITUAL & SPIRITUAL PURITY" available from IEIC whose address and tel. # have been given under answer no. 1. Yours in Islam, Sayyid M. Rizvi ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: Just for clarification, you stated in the last posting regarding gelatine that "all types of gelatine is tahir and halal." Does this mean that when we see gelatine in a list of ingredients where nothing else is questionable, ethn we are to assume that the gelatine comes from an animal other than a pig or a dog i.e. an animal that is tahir but has not been slaughtered according to Shari`ah. Please answer this question as per Ayatullah Khui and Seestani. ANSWER: As mentioned under "C" in the original answer, you can assume that it is tahir and halal. And if you read the last part about istihala "E", then all kinds of gelatine becomes tahir and halal. Yours in Islam, Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi

Salaam brothers and sisters I have been debating with my friend lately as to why we don't eat Pork and meat that hasn't been slaughtered in the halal way. I showed him a lot of the reasons and scientific evidence out there, many which I got from the ShiaChat itself. However in the end he ended up saying that eating Pork or non halal meat hasn't ever negatively effected him or his family and friends. He continues to explain that his grandfather who's 70 is very healthy and fit, as well as how healthy he is (which is all true). So in that regard I unfortunately didn't know how to respond, so I was wondering, are there any other reasons out there? I really want to understand this myself to be honest. I also know that, even if Pork was supposedly healthy, we still wouldn't eat it because it doesn't have a neck. Thank you.

Asalamu Alaikum, I have always been told that pigs, carnivores, and insects are things that we, as Muslims, are forbidden to eat yet when my biology professor told me that pork was only banned during the rise of Christianity and Islam since it wasn't simply cooked well enough. Today you can eat pork just fine as do millions of people. When I told my mother about this she believed me but she told me that the other reason as to why we don't eat pork, carnivores or insects is since we would get the characteristics of those creatures when we eat them. Such as a pig, who doesn't mind if its companion is sleeping with another pig, eating carnivores would make us more aggressive, and that we should eat camel meat since its very protective of its mates. I'm still not sure if this is really true or not since many people eat insects in the far east and they seem to be doing practically well for themselves. They don't see it as gross because they got used to it over time and integrated it into their culture. When I told her that she tried to change the subject. I hope some one can give me an answer to this since it seems to cause no trouble to the human body or psyche if we eat any type of animal or insect.

Salam brothers and sisters peace be upon you all! the question goes like i have a friend who has been married to a chinese wife. She was a non believer before but converted to a muslim even though she doesnt have alot of knowldege about shia islam and she is still like a new born baby , naive. She did this just to be able to marry my shia brother. So now the problem is she still eats pork, no hijab, she doesnt drink alcohol by the way. When shes with her husband she avoids pork. But when they are at her moms place sometime she cooks pork and she has to eat it because it is impolite if she doesn't. My friend even said that it is really hard to make her practice islam because of the surroundings and culture n tradition in china. Even its really hard for himself to follow islam and really hard to explain about islam to her. Many problems regarding religion for them but they are true lovers as he said. So i would appreciate any help frombrothers and sisters here. Even im not sure what is the thing im tryingto ask but i hope all brothers and sisters here are clever enough to get my point as a muslim and shia living in non believers society. Really hard! salam. Jazakallah

Pork extracts have been found in a halal meat product during tests carried out by Birmingham City Council. The council said the pork was found in packs of 20 Humza brand chicken burgers with a best before date of 10 May 2013. There is no evidence to suggest Roshan Foods, who distributed the product, has caused the contamination deliberately, a spokesperson said. The council said it was working closely other local authorities to trace "where and how this has occurred". The pork extracts were found while checking for adulteration with horsemeat or other non-specified meat species, a spokesman added. The council said investigations were "on-going" and the Birmingham-based company involved is "co-operating fully". Their retail and catering customers have been notified and a product recall has started, the council said. A spokesperson said further sampling on other products produced by the company has been carried out and the results should be known "by the end of next week". souce: http://www.bbc.co.uk...ingham-21956961

The company which supplied halal food found to contain traces of pork DNA to prisons has been named. McColgan's Quality Foods Limited was the source of "the very small number of halal savuory beef pastry products," said food distributor 3663. The County Tyrone company said it was co-operating with The Food Standards Agency. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21312752