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Found 10 results

  1. have questions as I start the knowledge journey. Who were Amavides?
  2. See 37:39 in this video, he says the Imams like Imam Jaffer (عليه السلام) taught Shiism, yet still chooses to follow Imam Malik who he says did not narrate from Imam Jaffer because he knew he was Shia, he also claims most of our perspective on the holy Imams ((عليه السلام)) is correct (unlike other Sunni scholars who say most of it is fabricated). This should raise many question as to why he chooses to follow Imam Malik over the Imams ((عليه السلام)): He seems to oppose how some shias want to bring their children up with a very black and white view of history (good guy vs bad guy), where they hate and curse muawiya and say that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was surrounded by his enemies (which he says would imply he primarily failed his mission); he keeps asking "what is the end goal" of all this hatred, and claims history was a lot more nuanced than the shias make it out to be (see min 55 +). He also says this sort of "tunnel vision" is why children are leaving Islam, turning to kufr ideologies, becoming atheists: Note: whilst I disagree with him, I respect how he promotes shia-sunni unity and his interactions with the Shia community.
  3. Salaam, The recent sectarianism in Pakistan has been caused by shia views on Abu Sufiyan, Muawiya and Yazeed. Below are a few hadith on Muawiya. Shias can consider this a tool to make a case against Muawiya should there be a need. Sunnis can consider this a learning tool. I will not be responding to this thread to maintain my objectivity. Others are free to respond of course. Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyan appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali), whereupon be said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said about him that I would not abuse him and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camels. I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) say about 'Ali as he left him behind in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). 'Ali said to him: Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said to him: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there is no prophethood after me. And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger, and Allah and his Messenger love him too. He (the narrator) said: We had been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory. (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed: "Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) called 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family. Sahih Muslim Book 44, Hadith 50 https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/50 Zirr reported: 'Ali observed: By Him Who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessings be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me. Sahih Muslim Book 1, Hadith 146 https://sunnah.com/muslim/1/146 Narrated Ibn Al-Musaiyab: The companions of the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Some men from my companions will come to my Lake-Fount and they will be driven away from it, and I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge of what they innovated after you left: they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam). Sahih Bukhari Book 81, Hadith 174 https://sunnah.com/bukhari/81/174 (there are 6 other narrations like this one) Based on this simple evidence, is a discussion even required on Muawiya being RA or LA?
  4. I decided to Update the thread because we have more Sunnis on Shia Chat, I would like someone to debate me on this, @Cherub786 @eThErEaL @Maulana Than after I Pick someone than I will debate him/her, similar to my last debate, so we can maintain a peaceful and uninterrupted Debate
  5. Plz don't curse Muawiya, or any other person in your posts, Doing that will only make our relations worse.
  6. https://historyofislam.com/contents/the-age-of-faith/muawiya/ I strongly Advise you read the above link. A Sunni' professor, describing Sunni perspective of the History of Muawiya. For those among my Shia brothers who believe their Sunni Brothers say RadiAllahu 'Anhu after Muawiyah, you can see that the Sunni's do not do that, at all. For those of you who want to see a Shia Acadamic, who is well known (and whom I saw lectures at UMAA this year), I refer you to Nabil Hussayn :http://scholar.princeton.edu/nhussen/links/term/400 and if you're lazy, here http://scholar.princeton.edu/nhussen/links/pro-alid-sunnis-المنزهون من اهل الحديث The above is a scholarly study on the Pro-'Ali Sunni scholars, that many of you may or may not know The reason I made this post is because I came across certain rhetoric over here making ill based sweeping generalizations that the MAJORITY of their Sunni brother's despise Ali and Revere Muawiyah so much so that they say RA after his name, The first step in Unity is to dispel ignorance and misconceptions from both sides. I've gone through great lengths with my Sunni' brothers to dispel and normalize their misconceptions of the Shia', now I feel I must do the same here. This: Modern Sunni literature Despite his endeavours in the expansion of the Caliphate and the establishment of the Umayyad Dynasty, the persona of Caliph Muawiyah I evokes a controversial figure in standard Islamic history whose legacy has never quite been able to shed the taint of his opposition to the Rashidun Caliph, Ali ibn Abi Talib. The late (Sunni) theologian Mawdudi (founder of Jamaat-E-Islami) wrote that the establishment of the caliphate as (essentially) a monarchy began with the caliphate of Muawiyah I. It wasn't the kind where Muawiyah was appointed by the Muslims. Mawdudi elaborated that Muawiyah wanted to be caliph and fought in order to attain the caliphate, not really depending upon the acceptance of the Muslim community. The people did not appoint Muawiyah as a caliph, he became one by force, and consequently the people had no choice but to give him their pledge of allegiance (baiah). Had the people not given Muawiyah their allegiance at that time, it wouldn't have meant so much as losing their rank or position, as much as it would have meant bloodshed and conflict. This certainly couldn't have been given preference over peace and order. Following Hasan ibn Ali's abdication of the caliphate, all the Muslims (including the Sahabah and Tabi'een) gave their pledge of allegiance to Muawiyah I, bringing an end to civil war. That year was called the Aam Al Jamaat (Year of Congregation). As Mawdudi pointed out, Muawiyah's own speech during the initial days of his caliphate expressed his own awareness of this:[146] By Allah, while taking charge of your government I was not unaware of the fact that you are unhappy over my taking over of government and you people don’t like it. I am well aware of whatever is there in your hearts regarding this matter but still I have taken it from you on the basis of my sword… Now if you see that I am not fulfilling your rights, then you should be happy with me with whatever is there The above taken from Wikipedia, with proper citations. Legacy Mu'awiyah greatly beautified Damascus and developed a court to rival that of the Byzantines. He expanded the frontiers of the empire, reaching the very gates of Constantinople at one point, though failing to hold any territory in Asia Minor. Throughout the Umayyad dynasty which he founded, its borders would be commensurate with those of the Islamic community (with the exception of the short-lived rival caliphate in Mecca, 680–692). No later caliphate would share the same borders as the whole ummah. Sunni Muslims credit him with saving the fledgling Muslim nation from post civil war anarchy, although many are critical of his controversial decision to designate his son as his successor, thereby converting the caliphate from an elective office to a monarchy. He nonetheless attempted to preserve the form of the election however, by causing his nobles and the chiefs of the empire to elect and swear allegiance to his son in his own lifetime, a tradition that endured for several succeeding dynasties. Later Sunnis decided that preservation of unity was more important than how the leader was chosen, and concentrated more in their writing on the caliphate on the qualities that were needed rather than on how he should be selected. Like Uthman, he tended to favor Arabs in general (and his own family in particular) over others. However, his administrative skills are widely acknowledged. It is said that friends and critics alike recognized his quality of hilm (civilized restraint). He shared this with his predecessors but not their humility and simple lifestyle. In contrast to their simple dress and table, he dressed and ate like a king. He began the transformation of Damascus, his capital, into a center of culture and learning. The Sunni view of Mu'awiyah Mu'awiya is not recognized as one of the four rightly guided caliphs. Most of the early Sunni historians saw his rule, and that of the Umayyad dynasty that followed him, as a descent into mere worldly rule (mulk), kingship rather than religious leadership. These historians were writing after the fall of the Umayyad dynasty to the Abbasids, and hence their writings reflect the Abbasid justifications for the Umayyad overthrow. Few later Sunni historians wholeheartedly defend Mu'awiyah. However, they do not dispute his right to rule. Sunni clerics and scholars have generally preached submission to authority, even when authority is less than perfect. Sunnis tend to view communal dissension with horror and accept flawed rule as preferable to civil war (fitnah). @ The above taken from http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Muawiyah @kirtc @Gaius I. Caesar @Abu-Jafar Herz @Tawheed313 @Sarah2016 @shiaman14
  7. As Salaamu Alaikum. I found this alleged secret letter from Umar to Muawiyyah. You may already know about it. If it is true then it will be an amazing revelation. It is in Urdu. Will you or someone you know translate it for me, as accurately as you can, from Urdu to English and post mail or email it back to me? I realize that this is not a high priority project and I know you are extremely busy. Therefore, if you know of someone who has the time and interest I would appreciate it if you could invite him to assume the task of translation. If you can provide me with the same letter in the original Arabic that would be helpful as well. I definitely would like to keep it for my own research and study and not publicize it due to its sensitive content. Let me know what you think. email: mujahidein@yahoo.com file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Ahmad/My%20Documents/Downloads/umars%20letter%20to%20mavia%20(3).pdf umars letter to mavia.pdf .
  8. This is an extremely important topic, and I don't want to be controversial; but it is important to discuss in my opinion, and the reasons why we are seeing a plague in Muslim societies today. I won't go into the specifics of what happened right after the death of the Prophet(S) to avoid sounding controversial. Let us say that Hazrat Umar was a good administrator of the Islamic empire, and kept a tight lid/control over affairs. The empire grew very rapidly after the death of Prophet(S), in fact, too rapidly, which caused a lot of problems. However, after the death of Hazrat Umar, rifts based on tribal affiliations and families started taking place within the Muslim community. The Ummayads started to influence matters, and challenged the writ of the state. I would say that the problem with the Muslim community even during the time of Prophet(S) was that the people that had directly fought Muslims in the Battles of Badr and Uhad, people/munafiqs such as Abu Sufyan and Khalid bin Waleed, started gaining prominence in the Muslim Ummah once they entered the realm of Islam, and after the life of the Prophet(S) during the caliph's times. It were these people, and their progeny (Muawiya was the son of Abu Sufyan, Yazid was the son of Muawiya) that caused the destruction of Muslim society, and caused tremendous pain and suffering to the family of the Prophet(S). It was clear from the death of Hazrat Umar, that the Muslim community started disintegrating rapidly, with the Ummayads (and Abbasids later on) trying to grab power at the expense of the state. Imam Ali (AS) saw Muawiya responsible for the first great fitna, and in-fighting between Muslims in the Battle of Jamal and Siffin. Imam Hasan (AS) had to settle with Muawiya through a peace treaty, and was then poisoned to death. It was abundantly clear that under Yazid, and bloodthirsty, power grabbing people; Islam would have gone undergone total destruction, and Imam Hussain (AS) made the ultimate sacrifice in Karbala. However, with the rise of ISIS and other militant groups throughout the world, we can see all this emanated after the life of Prophet(S), with the gradual disintegration of the Muslim Ummah. Green - Region under the control of Imam Ali (AS) Red - Region under the control of Muawiya Blue - Region under the control of Amr bin Aas It absolutely boggles me how anyone can call the progeny of Abu Sufyan (Muawiya, Yazid), and Abu Sufyan companions of the Prophet(S), when they were responsible for creating fitna in the Muslim society for their thirst for power; and are the reason why we see the plague in the Muslim world today. There are more and more Wahabi and Deobandi scholars coming out today, praising Yazid (calling him Yazeed ® nauzibillah) and claiming Imam Hussain (AS) was wrong. Calling Yazid the rightful caliph, and Imam Hussain (AS) a rebel. This is the reason why the Muslim world, and especially the Arab world, has its plague.
  9. Some Muslims expressed their unfavorable impressions of Mu'a`wiya in his time. They are as follows: 1. Ibn 'Abba`s: 'Abd Allah b. 'Abba`s, a great Muslim thinker, expressed his opinion of Mu'a`wiya saying: "Mu'a`wiya has no quality to bring him near to the Caliphate.(Al-Mas'u`di, Ha`mish b. al-Athïr, vol. 6, p. 7). 2. Sa'sa'a bin Soha`n Sa'sa'a bin Soha`n al-'Abdi, a great Muja`hid, met Mu'a`wiya in the days of his government, and he asked him: "Which Caliph you have seen me?" Sa'sa'a answered him courageously, saying: "He who rules the people by force, governs over them with pride, and sizes (power) with the means of falsehood, lying, and trickery, is not a caliph! By Allah, at the Battle of Badr, you had neither a sword nor an arrow! You and your father were among those who fought against Allah's Messenger, may Allah bless him and his family! You are a freedman, and son of a freedman. Allah's Messenger, may Allah bless him and his family, released you. Therefore, how is the caliphate appropriate for a freedman?(Al-Mas'u`di, Ha`mish b. al-Athïr, vol. 6, p. 7). 3. Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba, Mu'a`wiya's friend and partner in sins, came to Mu'a`wiya and heard him saying a tradition thereby he slandered the great Prophet. Hence he was dissatisfied with him, left him, went to his son Yazid, and said to him: "I have come from the most malicious of all the people!" Then he related the tradition to him.(Al-Mas'u`di, Muru`jj al-Dhahab, vol. 2, p. 342). 4. Samra bin Jundub Samra bin Jundub, who was a hypocrite and liar, was among those who were indignant with Mu'a`wiya. That was when he removed him from the office of Basrah. Hence he said: "May Allah curse Mu'a`wiya! By Allah, if I had obeyed Allah as I obeyed Mu'a`wiya, He would never had chastised me! (Al-Tabari, Ta`rikh (first edition), vol. 6, p. 157). With this we will end our speech about Mu'a`wiya. He who carefully considers Mu'a`wiya's policy finds it full of acts of disobedience to Allah and His Messenger such as murdering the free, chasing the reformers, violating women, and spreading crimes and offenses.
  10. Leture of Wahabi ulema Ishaq on Mu'awiya. So some people those who say that Khilafat was not Mu'awiya's aim rather to take revenge,what will they response?
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