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Salamun alaikum, I am new to this forum so before I begin a big hello to all! My question is aimed at more of the academic crowd so please only serious responses and hold the flamethrowers I am currently reading Al Ghayba by Al-Numani which is undoubtedly a treasure trove for information on the Twelve Imams (A.S). However there are 2 pages which are troubling me and I am not sure if these are the translators notes or Numani's (R.A) himself? On Page 132-133 of the English translation there is a quote from the Old Testament about "I have responded to your prayer regarding Ishmael.... He will beget twelve great men". "Ishmael will be delegated, he is called Mabad or Mamad that it means Muhammad. He will be a master over the people. From his progeny there will be twelve men. They will be imams and masters, whom people will imitiate: Their names will be Taqobeet, Feeethwa, Thabeera, Mafssora, Massmoo'a. Domoh, Thabo, Hathar, Yathmo, Bator, Nouqass and Qeedmuwa". It would appear this is used to substantiate the 12 imams (A.S) although I do not think this is satisfactory based on the following: i.) Most Christian and Jewish scholars have a consensus that these are the descendants of Ishmael (Ishmaelites). ii.) The names sound very similar in some cases to the Hebrew names of the Ishmaelites: The ones I have put in bold sound similar to the names listed in the hadith above: Nebaioth (נבית) Kedar (קדר) Adbeel (אדבאל), established a tribe in northwest Arabia. Mibsam (מבשם) Mishma (משמע) Dumah (דומה) Massa (משא) father of a nomadic tribe that inhabited the Arabian desert toward Babylonia. Hadad (חדד) Tema (תימא) Jetur (יטור) Naphish (נפיש) Kedemah (קדמה) So in summary could some kind soul(s) please confirm: 1.) Is the above included in the Arabic version of Al Ghaybah and does it appear Nu'mani is quoting the Old Testament to use as a proof for the Twelve Imams (A.S) ? 2.) What do you think to these names actually being the Ishmaelites as per the Judeo/Christian consensus? Of course we have a plethora of hadith from Shia as well as Sunni sources proving the 12 imams which are sufficient, so it would seem unwise to perpetuate something which could be untrue, I'm sure I'm not the first one to flag this Jazakallah & Allahumma salli ala muhammad wa alee muhammad
Jews and Christians are told that the prophet Abraham almost sacrificed his son Isaac. He almost did this because God told him to. Abraham is said to have proven his fear of God by almost killing Isaac. I have read that Muslims believe that it was the son Ishmael that was almost sacrificed. Jews and Christians strongly disagree with Islam. As a Catholic, I am taught to respect Muslims because they hold on to the faith of Abraham. I believe in the Quran, but I am Christian, I am not Muslim! But I believe that Abraham was told to sacrifice both Ishmael and Isaac. With Ishmael almost being sacrificed first, then some years later, Isaac almost being sacrificed. The cunundrum solved! Both Ishmael and Isaac were almost sacrificed by Abraham.
The bible mentions in Genesis the covenant that God made with Abraham and that of Ishmael becoming a great nation: Genesis 17:20King James Version (KJV) 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. Do you think the 'Twelve Princes' refers to the 12 Imam's? They were technically from the progeny of Ishmael? Do you know if there are any other links that could be made within the Bible or the Torah to Islam that has to do with some sort of forecast like the above example? I know there's something about 'a greater sacrifice' when Abraham was put to a test by God...Right?
Salaam alaykum. Please keep in mind that I am merely studying Islam, so I am neither Shi'a or Sunni and I hold no biases about either. I'm friends with a Shi'a Muslim who has quoted the bible as a reference to the coming of the 12 Imams. I will ask him when I see him next but I'm interested in getting feedback from your fantastic community in the meantime! This aforementioned reference is where it says: "Twelve princes shall [ishmael] beget, and I shall make him a great nation." [Gen. 17:20] But later on, The Bible actually names these twelve men and says they are the twelve sons of Ishmael: "And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth: and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah; [Gen. 25:13-15] And right after that they make reference to the twelve princes again: "These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; these are the twelve princes according to their nations." [Gen. 25:16] Am I missing something deeper that he understands? Can anyone shed some light on this? Thank you so much for reading and I look forward to hearing your responses. - Alizée
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