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  1. Wa salam alaikum! (did I spell that right?) I have a question about which I would love to hear a Muslim perspective. It regards Jesus Christ, a favorite for all of us. In my conversations with Muslims, many say things like "Jesus never claimed to be God." So I would like to know what you (the Muslims on here) would say about this passage from John chapter 8: 54 Jesus answered, “If I want glory for myself, it doesn’t count. But it is my Father who will glorify me. You say, ‘He is our God,’ 55 but you don’t even know him. I know him. If I said otherwise, I would be as great a liar as you! But I do know him and obey him. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad.” 57 The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?[j]” 58 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I am![k]” 59 At that point they picked up stones to throw at him. But Jesus was hidden from them and left the Temple. [emphasis mine; for full context, check here] In this passage, we see Jesus expressing several important things. God is his father Jesus is older than Abraham Jesus uses the name of God {"I am"} as a description of himself. The Jewish authorities recognized this as a claim to divinity, as evidenced by their grabbing of stones to kill him. God vindicated this claim by hiding Jesus so he could leave the Temple safely. What are your thoughts about this passage?
  2. (bismillah) Greetings to everyone. I made this above post in the thread "Trinity And Omnipotence" in reply to Christianlady. I think it could be used as a good springboard to start the discussion. Although I would prefer this discussion to remain between Christianlady, Placid, and I, if any of you have a point to make, feel free to do so. I challenge anyone to find one clear, concise statement where Jesus himself states that he is God. You will find none. Whereas in the OT, God makes it clear again and again that He is the Lord, and that He is God, Jesus never does it. The main point of this topic, or the main question(s) is: Why is Jesus divine? How is divinity being attributed to Jesus? Although quotation of scripture can be used to support points, try to make the quotations concise and use what you need, not the whole chapter or so. I'll be using the KJV for my quotes. A few more things that I want to state (so we have a base for the discussion): ----Did any of the prophets in the OT believe in the Trinity or the divinity of a human being (or prediction of the divinity of a human being)? "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?". Guess where that quote came from. Not the Qur'an, but the Bible (KJV). ---Did Jesus think he was divine? If he thought he was God, he could not be a man, like us, because a man does not think he is God. If he thought he was a man, then he could not be God, because God does not think He is a man. And he could not have thought he was God-man, because one, there is no scriptural evidence for that, and two, it is illogical and does not make sense. ---Jesus could not do anything of himself. "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." -John 5:30 God should be able to do what he wants. ---"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord"-Mark 12:29. I bolded the words I wanted to stress. First, Jesus said OUR God. If he was God, rather than the messenger of God, shouldn't his wording be a tad bit different to be correct? Next, God is one Lord. Now, Christians claim Jesus is God. But so is the Father. Now they, are both one God. If I agree with this, there is one problem; they could then not be one Lord. There would be two Lords, one God. The Father and the Son. ---"For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed"-Malachi 3:6. This statement, if true, would mean Jesus is not God because he changed from God to become manifest as a human. So, he changed form. ---" But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." -Mark 13:32. Woah, hold on there. Jesus is God, All-Knowing, yet he doesn't know about that day and that hour? ---"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" -John 14:9. This quote means Jesus is one with the Father, right? Wrong: "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." -John 5:37. ---"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:"-Acts 2:22. This quote, with the words I bolded, should speak for itself. Jesus is a man APPROVED of God. Not a man who IS God. ---"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."- John 17:3. The only true God is the one to send Jesus. God didn't send himself.There is a sharp distinction. ---One of the more important points is that if Jesus is God because he has no father, then shouldn't Adam be God because he has neither a mother nor a father? In fact, he should be a greater God because at least Jesus has a mother. And finally: Jesus being the son of God (as Christians say) doesn't make him divine, because: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."-Romans 8:14. Giving Jesus divinity creates much confusion. But wait I thought "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."-1 Corinthians 14:33. It makes much more sense that Jesus is the messenger and prophet of Allah سبحانه وتعالى. That is a lot of writing, I am eager for the responses. Thank you for reading. May Allah (TBRK), guide us all to the right path.
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