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Read the Reddit comments to understand what the thread was about, since the post has since been deleted. ....................................................................................... I'm so tired of the utterly nonsensical and VERY COMMON Sunni notion of 'I am happy to seek unity with Shias as long as they don't curse/insult/abuse any Sahaba, and especially NOT Aisha, Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman. Firstly, any Shia claim regarding the sahabi that happens to go against the Sunni narrative is considered insulting. Secondly, and more importantly, is that the same notion is true for Shias... You are insulting the Ahlul Bayt by not accepting them as divinely appointed leaders of Allah, and infallible individuals, and perfect preservers of the religion of Islam, and a high means of seeking closeness to Allah (intercession). Not only are you insulting revered Shia figures by not following them, you are commiting MAJOR shirk by giving a false attribute to Allah, by saying that Allah has not always appointed an infallible leader on this Earth, and that there currently isn't an infallible leader. Furthermore, the real kicker is that plenty of revered Shia figures, such as Abu Talib (رضي الله عنه), are considered kuffar by Sunnis. Is this not insulting? So, how can we Shias unite with Sunnis based on their own fallacious logic? Shias are the minority, and Sunnis are the majority. It makes Sunnis think that they are Orthodox and that they have to unite with Heterodox for political and humanitarian reasons, and that Shias must make [ridiculous] compromises. Shias are far more receptive to the unity message, because we actually understand Sunni Islam, and can see the commonalities. We understand that we can't make Sunnis compromise on their beliefs. Simply by being the minority within Islam, by nature we Shias already understand Sunni beliefs, whereas Sunnis have a basic strawman understanding of Shia beliefs... which is natural, considering that they are the majority. Anyways, the point of my post is the following: Let's compile a list of revered Shia figures that are not given their proper status by Sunnis, according to Shia Islam... with an explanation given. ...This is to show that we Shias and Sunnis can unite, but we cannot unite upon revered figures and imamah. ...This will also serve as a way of showing Sunnis that this argument of theirs makes no sense. Another important question we may ask is "What about commonly revered figures like Imam Ali (عليه السلام) who is given different status in both sects? Can we unite upon Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?" ...a common Sunni criticism of political unity is that "Ali ibn Abi Talib (رضي الله عنه) is given an improper status in Shia religion because they call upon him... tawassul (intercession) of the 'dead' is Shirk! So there is absolutely no room for unity since we can't even agree on the status of the sahabi" [yes, I am aware that the Imams (عليه السلام) are still alive, but Sunnis don't believe this...] I would love to hear your thoughts. Wassalam. JazakAllah Khair. Fi sabilillah.

Salam alaykum. I was Sunni until a few months ago when I started to research Shia Islam. Convinced of the imamate of Ali, Hassan and Hussein, I then had to decide between Twelver, Zaidi and Ismaili. To cut a long story short, now I am Twelver. However I would like to know what is the Twelver perspective on the Ismailis. My main question is specifically why is Musa al-Kadhim the seventh Imam and not his brother Ismail? Any other comments related to Twelver and Ismaili perspectives of each other is welcome.

Salam alaykum. I was Sunni until a few months ago when I started to research Shia Islam. Convinced of the imamate of Ali, Hassan and Hussein, I then had to decide between Twelver, Zaidi and Ismaili. To cut a long story short, now I am Twelver. However I would like to know what is the Twelver perspective on the Zaidis? Specifically 1) why is Muhammad al-Baqir the Imam and not his brother Zayd ibn Ali? The Zaidi view is related to the challenge for caliphate because Zayd led a rebellion whereas al-Baqir did not so what is the response to that? 2) Why is their madhab different to the Jafari madhab? 3) Are they viewed in the same way a one of the four Sunni madhabs would view each other, as in there is some differences but ultimately they are very close, or is it seen that there is a bigger separation between Twelver and Zaidi than this? Any additional comments related to Twelver-Zaidi dialogue is welcome even if it is not about these three questions. Also I'll post about Twelver-Ismaili differences separately so that both threads can be more focused.

...What do you do ? I personally engage in discussions with them : the Bible, the history of their sect born in NYC, invite them to read Quran.

A short clip by a revert Shia scholar on how to lead a dialogue with non-Muslims and how to bring them to Islam.

I wanted to send this to the list earlier. Here are a friend's observations and "Conversion Manual" when I argue with our Sunni brothers. There might be other manuals out there but this one has worked for me so far :). *** Important Note*** All Arguments should preferably be in email/written form. Do not waste your breath on it. Force them to READ not listen. Genuine ones will read and convert. Non genuine ones will quit bothering you. Guaranteed. PRECONDITIONS 1. Have a sympathetic attitude towards Sunnis. Feel sorry for them that apparently confessing Islam, they are still so far away from the real message.Do not feel mad at them. Do not show your ingrain anger over Saqifa and Karbala. These poor simplistic brothers (sisters) of ours are genuinely brainwashed for ages and are worthy of our compassion, not anger. 2. Never get defensive on the questions they ask us. They mostly ask us benign questions such as alam, tazia, zuljinah which are at most mustahib but not wajib. They might also ask about mutah and divorce, having belief in those are wajib but practicing those are not. Key here is "do not get defensive". 3. Use the "Sunni Itch" in your favor. Notice how during every Muharram, your Sunni friends suddenly realize that you are a Shia and start asking questions primarily about the topics listed above. I call this "Sunni Itch". Here's how to channel this "Sunni itch" to cast doubt about their religion. Once you do that, they become conditioned to come to the right path except a majority of those who are plain stupid to see the light or have "seals on their hearts" as Allah has said in Quran. Almost none of them would ever denounce Islam so do not fear that you are going to make anyone reject Islam through your discussions. DISCUSSION CONDUCT 4. Never abuse Umer, Abu Baker, & Usman. Sunnis are programmed to revere them so deeply that most Sunnis would accept the insults to the Prophet (sawaw) but would be found justifying the actions of Sahaba. Show hadith, events, and instances from Sunni literature which breaks this infallible status of the Sahaba from Sunni psyche. 5. Keep repeating this line - "no one has the right to change the sharia' of Prophet except for Allah and Prophet" while repeating the changes and innovations brought in by primarily Umer (others were too simplistic or ignorant to add things in the religion anyway). 6. Whenever discuss the crimes of these BIG THREE (Umer, Abu Baker, Usman), DO NOT be disrespectful. 7. Whenever discuss the crimes of Abu-Sufyan, Muawiah, and Yazeed, BE VERY disrespectful. Still do not use the foul language. 8. Your Sunni friend will soon notice this which you could use to argue later as how complacent the BIG THREE were in planting the Muawiah gang in Syria and thus implicate the BIG THREE in the Karbala crimes as well. Then you could take them back to Saqifa. 9. Hazrat Ayesha - try to avoid discussing her saying you do not want to discuss her since she was one of the wives of the prophet (sawaw). Gain higher moral ground by saying that certain things need not be mentioned due to her being one of the "mothers of momineen". This is also making this itch incredibly unbearable which you could use later in your advantage. Of-course discussion of faux-Islamic history can not be completed without her but she is the BIGGEST DEMAGOGUE Sunnis have and you could use her as your last big bang. 10. Arguing succession to prophet-hood - there are two groups of Sunnis. a. Half of them claim Abu Bakr was "nominated". Ask "nominated" group to show proof from hadith. Refute their false hadith with bunch of Ghadeer hadith from their books. "Nominated" group is more dogmatic so argue based on hadith and Quran. b. Other half claim Abu Bakr was "elected". Ask "elected" group as to why the later generation of Muslims should abide by that election anyway. "elected" group is relatively more logical and you can at least get them accept your point of view based on sound argument. 11. Sunnis for most part not knowing their religion, swindle between hadith and Quran. Once you checkmate them on hadith, they will claim that let's argue only based on Quran. It is important that you bring them to say this. Because once they come to say "let's argue based on Quran", Quran is full of clear ayat which could be used to support your claim. ATTACK 1. Have your Sunni friend count how many salat he (she) has prayed so far in life. Ask the importance of "wudhu". Show ayat of Quran according to which they perform wrong wudhu. 2. Ask to count "sawm" fasts he (she) has done in life time. Show ayat of Quran that all his (her) fasts were "broken" and are invalid according to Quran since they could not wait another 15 minutes. 3. Number of salats = 5, number of times to read that salat = 3. prove it according to Quran. Ask them why and according to which hadith they go against it. You will being them to say that "it is optional" - invite them to pray magrib and isha with you together one after another. Remember for Sunnis, praying and fasting are among the five pillars of their religion. Your attack on them performing these wrong will go a long way. 4. Use hadith saqlain - the famous hadith quoted in Sunni and Shia sources both. Ask them to show you the hadith of "Quran and Sunna". 5. Never let them come back to discuss "alam, tazia, zuljinah" or "mutah, divorce, or sajdigah". Once they will understand Imamat, these things will get cleared in no time. 6. Keep on offensive on other things Sunnis do wrong. Never let them take the podium to have you justify your faith. 7. Bottom line - Keep them on defensive. There are two benefits to it - a. Most important, you have conveyed the true religion of prophet Muhammad (sawaw) to them. Now they would not be able to complain on the day of judgment. b. The least, you have got a Sunni monkey off your back. More likely he (she) would not bother you again. 8. Never sever ties with your Sunni brothers. Always include yourself in their functions etc. Always be their friends. How else would we have them listen to the real story of Islam? And most important of all, always stress on unity between various currents of Islam. Sunnis are misled confused folks but still, they are Muslims and should be treated as such. (this line is in light of instructions of Imam Sadiq (sa)). PREPARE YOURSELF 1. Read and use books such as "Peshawar Nights", "Then I was guided", "Shia by Ay. Tabatabai'". 2. Read your Quran. I've found Agha Mehdi Puya's tafseer very helpful. Maulana Farman Ali's is excellent as well. 3. When you find yourself out of proofs, visit www.al-islam.org and search. 4. Most important of all, ask for help from Imam of Time (af) before starting this discussion. Pray for the lost Sunni soul to come to the right path. Sincerity to this effect also goes a long way. Don't argue for your ego... 5. Find the real un-edited Siha-e-Satta if you can. FOLLOWUP 1. Pretty much during the course of all this Sunni belief shattering process, you have created following feeling in your Sunni subject (I meant brother/sister). a. Depression b. Anger c. Self Pity d. DOUBT 2. By this time he (she) has also recognized that you are a tough nut so make sure they don't run away saying "we can not judge" - a famous Sunni line of retreat. 3. Be persistent. Keep bringing them to the discussion, keep sending them emails of the stuff which goes in line of your discussion. DO NOT let them off the hook. THEY started the discussion. YOU end it. Talk to them about the stuff you emailed them. Keep asking them until either they do "tabarra" on Umer and the team in-front of you :), at which time they will ask more questions and inshAllah see the light, or apologize and ask you not to bother them again... Good luck arguing -