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I took ShiaChat Mod's suggestion of not posting 'off topic' comments in a thread about Yasir Habib's statements, so I'm posting a new thread specifically discussing the issue of cursing and insulting him and his followers which I feel is something important to discuss. It might not be my 'call' to decide what's breaking the rules or what's not, but this a problem plaguing all our communities which is why I've chosen to create the thread in the Social/Family/Personal section because we can all fall victims to such abuse and it's damaging manifestations. My two cents on the issue: Whilst Yasir Habib does not have the following nor the large fan base as other 'religious authorites', he still has people who respect him and view him as their role model. Surely that makes him a 'religious figure' that shouldn't be cursed? Even if we were to say, for arguments sake, that he's not Shia and he's in fact the enemy of Shia; Yasir Habib would at least be included in the list of enemies of Allah Ta'ala and Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) as well as the misguided 'scholars'. Cursing them is also ‘strictly prohibited’ on ShiaChat: Cursing of the 3 "Caliphs" (Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman by name or number) and of any of the Holy Prophet's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) wives, as well as Sunni scholars is strictly prohibited. Because if we as a society tolerate the cursing and insults of any 'controversial leader', then their followers are next on the demonising list, and the divisive labelling only becomes worse; whilst all such abuse can be nipped in the bud with a robust and balanced code of conduct. Your thoughts?
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Brothers and sisters, I need a serious answer. Is cursing (sending L'anah) openly haram? No? Which hadiths support this vision? Note: I'm asking about l'anah, not insulting.
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Read the Reddit comments to understand what the thread was about, since the post has since been deleted. ....................................................................................... I'm so tired of the utterly nonsensical and VERY COMMON Sunni notion of 'I am happy to seek unity with Shias as long as they don't curse/insult/abuse any Sahaba, and especially NOT Aisha, Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman. Firstly, any Shia claim regarding the sahabi that happens to go against the Sunni narrative is considered insulting. Secondly, and more importantly, is that the same notion is true for Shias... You are insulting the Ahlul Bayt by not accepting them as divinely appointed leaders of Allah, and infallible individuals, and perfect preservers of the religion of Islam, and a high means of seeking closeness to Allah (intercession). Not only are you insulting revered Shia figures by not following them, you are commiting MAJOR shirk by giving a false attribute to Allah, by saying that Allah has not always appointed an infallible leader on this Earth, and that there currently isn't an infallible leader. Furthermore, the real kicker is that plenty of revered Shia figures, such as Abu Talib (رضي الله عنه), are considered kuffar by Sunnis. Is this not insulting? So, how can we Shias unite with Sunnis based on their own fallacious logic? Shias are the minority, and Sunnis are the majority. It makes Sunnis think that they are Orthodox and that they have to unite with Heterodox for political and humanitarian reasons, and that Shias must make [ridiculous] compromises. Shias are far more receptive to the unity message, because we actually understand Sunni Islam, and can see the commonalities. We understand that we can't make Sunnis compromise on their beliefs. Simply by being the minority within Islam, by nature we Shias already understand Sunni beliefs, whereas Sunnis have a basic strawman understanding of Shia beliefs... which is natural, considering that they are the majority. Anyways, the point of my post is the following: Let's compile a list of revered Shia figures that are not given their proper status by Sunnis, according to Shia Islam... with an explanation given. ...This is to show that we Shias and Sunnis can unite, but we cannot unite upon revered figures and imamah. ...This will also serve as a way of showing Sunnis that this argument of theirs makes no sense. Another important question we may ask is "What about commonly revered figures like Imam Ali (عليه السلام) who is given different status in both sects? Can we unite upon Imam Ali (عليه السلام)?" ...a common Sunni criticism of political unity is that "Ali ibn Abi Talib (رضي الله عنه) is given an improper status in Shia religion because they call upon him... tawassul (intercession) of the 'dead' is Shirk! So there is absolutely no room for unity since we can't even agree on the status of the sahabi" [yes, I am aware that the Imams (عليه السلام) are still alive, but Sunnis don't believe this...] I would love to hear your thoughts. Wassalam. JazakAllah Khair. Fi sabilillah. -
Hello I know that cursing is not permissible but what is the ruling when it comes cursing in your thoughts? If there is rulings what sources do the come from? Hadith,Quran, what marja? I have this problem where I repeat the words I hear in my mind and in most shows/movies nowadays or videos on social media platforms almost everyone swears. So I'm confused if it's haram to swear in your mind thanks
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Bismillah ir Arahman ir Rahim Salamu Alaikum! ***Note: I'm still very new to Ahlul Bayt*** So I have been seeing issues of cursing the cursed ones and seeing it crossover with unity and tolerance. I know it seems weird. I have come across two main ideas about this: 1. Some, like Sheikh Yassir al-Habib - I hope I wrote his name correctly. But some like him point out how in the Qu'ran other Prophets of Allah were tested with disbelieving wives, traitors, hypocrites, etc. And sees no reason to not curse and insult openly. 2. Another line of thinking I have found is more like Dr. Syad Ammar Nakshawani (not sure if I wrote that right either). His line and others more like him, is not betray your beliefs, but to still be respectful and tolerant of others. That extra care like this helps with unity and to not be the cause of Shi'a deaths all over the world. I am still so new to this so its a bit overwhelming and incredibly confusing me, lols. I am curious about others' opinions on this. Shukran.
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(salam) (bismillah) I came across this fatwa by al-Sistani that has been recently given. I found it interesting. Sunday, October 13, 2013835 MasonDearborn, MI 48124United StatesSee map: Google MapsQuestion No. 100644 The subject of the question: Insulting the companions and wives of the prophet (s.a.w.a.) --------------------------------------------- The Question: as-Salamu Alykum wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuhu, A video clip has been seen several times on social network web sites showing a congregation during the martyrdom of al-Imam al-Jawad (a.s.). This group of people from the area known as al-A'dhamiyyah are shown shouting out insults upon 'Omar, A’isha, and others. Is this type of behavior condemned by the supreme religious authority, especially since it involves the insult of religious figures of our brothers of the Sunni school of thought, and it could potentially fuel unrest amongst the people of Iraq and jeopardize peace? The Answer: In The Name of Allah, The Beneficent, The Merciful This type of behavior is condemned, strongly denounced and contrary to the commands of the Imams of the Holy Household of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.) to their followers. Allah is The Guide. The Office of Ayatullah Sayyid al-Sistani The Holy City of Najaf 12/2/1434 Source: https://secure.imam-us.org/fatwa/companions?utm_source=Sayyid+Sistani%27s+fatwa+about+the+Prophet%27s+%28s.a.w.a.%29+companions&utm_campaign=Sistani+Companion+Sahabah&utm_medium=email (salam)- 38 replies
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Yasir Habib, whom majority of twelvers do not like and acknowledge, is no different than Allama Baqir Majlisi of past. Below are some proofs out of hundred available from books of Baqir Majlisi, which are no different than what Yasir Habib say in his lectures and in public gatherings. It has been narrated in Taqrib al Muarif from the freed slave of Ali bin Hussain (i.e Imam Zain ul Abideen) that he asked the Imam, I have the right over you, inform me about Abu Bakr and Umar. Imam said : Both of them are unbelievers, and whoever loves them is also unbeliever [meaning all sunnis]. Haqqul Yaqin, p. 522 Ayyashi has narrated from Imam Jafar through a reliable sanad that he said : May Allah’s curse be upon Aisha and Hafzah and their fathers … They killed the Messenger of Allah with poison. Hayat ul Quloob Vol. 2, p. 700 Whoever believes that Uthman was killed innocently, his sins on the day of judgement will be more than those who worshipped the calf. Hayat ul Quloob, Vol. 1, p. 20 Whatever Abu Bakr did was against the verses of Quran, whoever acts against Quran is kafir, fasiq oppressor. Hayat ul Quloob, Vol. 1, p. 157 The clear proof of the disbelief of Uthman is that Ali considered his killing mubah, and didn’t consider anything wrong in it. Haqqul Yaqin, p. 270 ‘We believe that we should seek disassociation from four idols namely, Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman and Mu’awiyah; from four women namely, Ayesha, Hafsa, Hind and Ummul Hakam, along with all their associates and followers. ‘These are the worst creation of Allah. It is not possible to believe in Allah, His Messenger and the Imams without disassociating oneself from their enemies. Haqqul Yaqeen: 2:519 ‘One should say after each prayer: O Allah! Curse Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, Mu’awiyah, Ayesha, Hafsa, Hind and Ummul Hakam. Aynul Hayat: 599 Baqir Majlisi's books Haqqul Yaqin, Ain ul Hayat, Jilal al Uyun, bihar ul anwar are full of such narrations (which are declared authentic by him) and his personal opinions like above.
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DECIDE YOURSELF WHO YOU ARE? Its the historical fact that it was muawiya bin abu sufiyan who started the biddah of lanah/cursing/abusing on Imam Ali a.s at mimbar/home. So those who are doing the same on first three caliphs and umm aisha are actually shina e muawiya (his followers in this regard). On the other hand shian e Ali a.s are those who follow him in true sense keeping their ego aside. 297 - ب : ابن طريف عن ابن علوان عن جعفر عن أبيه أن عليا ( عليه السلام ) كان يقول لاهل حربه : إنا لم نقاتلهم على التكفير لهم ولم نقاتلهم على التكفير لنا ولكنا رأينا أنا على حرق ورأوا أنهم على حق Ibn Tareef from Ibn Alwan from Imam Jafar ibn Sadiq from his Father from Ali (alaihi salam) who said about those who fought against him: "We don’t fight with them due to their takfir, and don’t fight with them due to their takfir of us. But we see that we are upon truth, and they see that they are upon truth." [Bihar al-Anwar 32/324, No. 297] إن عليا لم يكن ينسب أحدا من أهل حربه إلى الشرك ولا إلى النفاق ولكنه كان يقول: هم أخواننا بغوا علينا - 298 Imam Jafar as-Sadiq a.s said: “Ali didn't attribute anyone from those who fought against him to shirk or hypocrisy, but he said: “The are our brothers, which rebel against us”. [Bihar al-Anwar 32/324, No. 298] Source: https://www.aqaed.com/ahlulbait/books/behar32/a33.html
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As-Salaam Alaykum, I have recently read an article on the website of Ayatollah Khamenei (khamenei.it) wherein he has stated that 'It's not allowed to insult the Sunni.' I have always been an advocate for taqleed and Marja's, but it's this type of opinion that disenchants & turns our very own youth against the principles of Taqlid. On the face, it seems very broad however after studying the article it's clear that it's aimed at preventing the lanat as it's deemed as 'insulting' to the Sunni Muslims. Furthermore, after having read the mentioned article it's very unclear whether the Muqallideen of Khamenei in the west are now even permitted to recite many duas & Ziyaraats such as Waritha, Ashura, Arbaeen etc as they all contain curses that will most certainly 'upset' Sunni brethren. It doesn't help the cause when our own scholars are repelling the same people that they should be attracting. It's clear from authentic historical sources that Lady Fatima s.a. cursed the first two usurpers after every Salat. Three Imams a.s. were present & none of them a.s. admonished Her s.a., therefore it's considered sunna. In addition, She s.a. prohibited the two from attending Her s.a. funeral & stated very clearly to them that She s.a. would complain to Rasoolullah saww regarding her treatment at their hands. So should we disregard all this just for the fear that our fellow brethren may be insulted? Please would someone kindly please explain this. Jazakallah Khair.
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Salaam to all who comes across this topic. I have been having discussions with a close Sunni that I know, mainly around the caliphate. My question that I have to put forward is as so.. To my knowledge, within Sunnism when it comes to events like the Battle of Jamal those who according to Shia narrations did wrong, are not deemed as the 'baddies' if you like - Why? Because individuals like Aisha/Umar/Uthman etc are fallible beings and did make mistakes and may well have repented for their crimes that they did. With this view, where does the permissibility within Shiaism come to look down upon and curse such individuals when in reality there is no way WE could 100% prove the actions that went on back then? And so by cursing do we not run the risk of cursing individuals who may have been forgiven since names of the individuals aren't mentioned in the Quran?
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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم Now, it is well known among us that Imam Ali (as) was cursed from the pulpits during the Umawi period (period of Bani Umayyah), but has become something that our Sunni brothers staunchly deny. Let us look at the authentic narrations to see where the truth is. In 'Silsilat al Ahadith al Sahiha' volume 7, page 996, hadith number 3332, let us see what we read, Abi Abdillah narrates, 'Um Salama said to me, "Is the Prophet being cursed from the pulpits?!", I said "Subhan Allah, what makes you say that the Prophet is being cursed from the pulpits?", and she said to me "Is Ali ibn Abi Talib and the ones who love him [his Shia] not being cursed from the pulpits? The Prophet himself loved him." (Graded Sahih by Allamah al Albani). As we can see, Um Salamah, mother of the believers, testifies in a sahih hadith that Amir al Mu'mineen (as) was being cursed from the pulpits. Also, in 'Musnad Ahmed ibn Hanbal' volume 3, page 185, we find the narration, Abdillah al Mazini narrates, "When Muawiyah left Kufa, he employed Mughirah ibn Shu'bah, who hired speakers to curse Ali" (Graded hasan by Sho'aib al Arna'ut) Here, we not only have found that Imam Ali (as) was being cursed, but people were actually being employed to curse him, which correlates with the fact that Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan al hired people to fabricate ahadith, which have ended up in the books of our brothers. Additionally, in 'Fadha'il al Sahaba' by Ahmed ibn Hanbal, we read the narration, Abdul Rahman ibn Akhnas narrates, 'Al Mughirah ibn Shu'bah gave a sermon, and then cursed Ali ibn Abi Talib' (The investigator grades the narration Sahih) This narration also shows us that is was becoming a Sunnah to curse Amir al Mu'mineen (as) from the pulpits, but it's not true apparently. In 'Masa'il Imam Ahmed', volume 3 page 176, the narration is found, Umair ibn Ishaq narrates, "Marwan was our Amir for six years, and would curse Ali ibn Abi Talib every friday, later on he removed, then we had Sa'eed ibn al Aas was hired for two years and the cursing stopped, then Marwan was later brought back, and Marwan continued the tradition" (The investigator grades the narration Sahih) Here, we see a case where Marwan was cursing Imam Ali (as) for years, every friday, and even when he was brought back he continued to curse. Though there is more, let's just stop there and see the opinions of their grand scholars, In al Bidayah wa al Nihaya by Ibn Katheer, volume 8 page 184, Ibn Katheer (who wrote the famous 'Tafsir ibn Kathir') says about this, When Marwan was governor of Muawiyah in the city, he would curse Ali every Jum'ah from the pulpits. Here, we see the writer of the most famous Sunni Tafsir admits that the people Muawiyah hired would curse Imam Ali (as) Al Qurtubi, another famous scholar of Ahlul Sunnah, says in his book 'al Mufhim lima Ushkila min talkhees kitab Muslim', volume 1, page 232, he says, And as for Marwan, and the rest of Bani Ummayah, they would give sermons cursing Ali ibn Abi Talib, and people would here it, so they prayed with them but would leave during the sermon, and when Marwan saw this he and the rest of Bani Umayyah started to give sermons before the prayers, to force people to here this. Is commentary needed here? The issue is clear- they hated Amir al Mu'mineen (as) so much they changed the timings so people could here the cursing of him. Are we done yet? No, In fact, the writer of the greatest Sharh of Sahih Bukhari, that is Fathul Bari also has this opinion. Ibn Hajar al Asqalani says, on volume 8 page 71 And after what happened with Ali, a group of people fought him, and then they got fiercer and began cursing him and sending la'nah on him from the pulpits as a sunnah. Didn't Ali (as) love Abu Bakr and Umar wholeheartedly? Weren't Jamal and Siffeen just a political dispute? What brought about the hate for Imam Ali (as) ? I thought this rosy picture that was painted is real? Even the scholars of the sunnah admit it, Imam Ali (as) was cursed from the pulpits of Bani Umayyah, and it is an issue reported by so many sahih chains it cannot be denied, and I would like to ask a question to our brothers: Why did they hate Ali ibn Abi Talib (as)? Anyway, insha Allah it increases Imam Ali's (as) reward, In the next thread we'll look at what Bani Umayyah would do to children with the name of 'Ali', 'Hassan', or 'Hussain' (wasalam)
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The infallible Imams (a.s.) were consumed with grief over the untold difficulties and afflictions heaped on Fatima Zahra (s.a.), the Holy Prophet’s (s.a.w.a.) beloved daughter, by the pseudo-caliphs.Shaikh Abbas al-Qummi (r.a.) says: The sufferings of Fatima Zahra (s.a.) were more painful to her infallible sons (a.s.), the Imams (a.s.), than the wounds of swords and knives; and her pain was more scorching to them (a.s.) than fire. It was decreed for them (by Allah the High) to observe dissimulation (taqiyyah) and thus, they could not reveal the sufferings of Fatima Zahra (s.a.). Thus, when the name of Fatima (s.a.) was taken in their presence, their hearts would turn sorrowful and anyone with intellect could observe its effect on their noble visages. (Bait Al-Ahzaan, p. 136)This grief was a defining feature of their Imamat and made itself evident in two ways – weeping over her (tawalla) and cursing her tormentors (tabarra). 1. Imam Muhammad b. Ali al-Jawad’s (a.s.) grief 2. Imam Muhammad b. Ali al-Baqir’s (a.s.) grief 3. Imam Jafar al-Sadiq’s (a.s.) grief The following incidents illustrate this point to some extent. Back to Top1. Imam Muhammad b. Ali al-Jawad’s (a.s.) griefZakariyya Ibn Adam narrates:One day, I was in the presence of Imam Ali Reza (a.s.) when his son, Imam Muhammad al-Jawad (a.s.), who was less than four years old, was brought to him. As he came in, he (a.s.) struck his palms on the ground, raised his head towards the heavens and remained engrossed in deep thought for a long time.Seeing this, Imam Reza (a.s.) (asked him) – May I be your ransom! What are you thinking about?Imam Jawad (a.s.) replied: I am engrossed in thought regarding the sufferings that befell my mother, Fatima (s.a.). By Allah! I will bring out those two men (Shaikhain) from their graves and burn them and then scatter their ashes into the seas.Hearing this, Imam Reza (a.s.) asked his son to be brought closer to him, kissed him (a.s.) on his forehead and remarked, ‘May my parents be your ransom! You are worthy for this affair (Imamat).’Mustadrak Wasaail al-Shia vol. 1 p. 123Dalaail al-Imaamah p. 212Ithbaat al-Wasiyyah p. 218Madinah al-Ma’ajiz, vol. 7 p. 325Behaar al-Anwaar vol. 50 p. 59Back to Top2. Imam Muhammad b. Ali al-Baqir’s (a.s.) griefIt is related that whenever Imam Muhammad Baqir (a.s.) was afflicted with fever, he (a.s.) would treat the fever by keeping cloth pieces immersed in cold water on his body and call out loudly O Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad! that his voice could be heard from the entrance of the house.Rauzah al-Kafi, p. 87Behaar al-Anwaar, vol. 62 p. 102Bait al-Ahzaan fi Masaaeb Sayyidah al-Niswaan (s.a.), p. 135In explanation of this tradition, Allamah Majlisi (r.a.) says that Imam Baqir (a.s.) desired that by invoking the sacred name of Fatima (s.a.), he would ward off fever.Shaikh Abbas al-Qummi (r.a.) says: I strongly believe that fever could afflict the sacred body of the Imam (a.s.) due to the sufferings of his mother Fatima (s.a.) which were lying concealed in his (a.s.) sacred heart. He (a.s.) would cleanse the heat of the fever with water through the remembrance of his mother Fatima (s.a.) and her sufferings. This is similar to an afflicted person who tries to lessen his sorrows through sighs and deep breaths.Bait al-Ahzaan, p. 136Back to Top3. Imam Jafar al-Sadiq’s (a.s.) griefIt is related that Imam Sadiq (a.s.) asked al-Sakuni whom Allah the High had blessed with a daughter: ‘What name have you chosen for her?’He replied: ‘Fatima.’On hearing (just the mention of Fatima), Imam Sadiq (a.s.) exclaimed sorrowfully: ‘Alas! Alas!’ Saying this, he (a.s.) placed his hand upon his forehead and sat down, grieving….Thereafter, Imam (a.s.) advised, “Now that you have named her Fatima, never abuse her, curse her or beat her. (i.e. out of reverence for Fatima (s.a.) and possibly also because she had to face all this at the hands of her enemies.).”Al-Kafi, vol. 6 p. 48-49Tahzeeb al-Ahkaam, vol. 8 p. 112Bait al-Ahzaan, p. 136No wonder that Imam Sadiq (a.s.) unfailingly cursed, naming four men and four women after every obligatory prayer, for how they had treated Fatima Zahra (s.a.).Al-Kafi, vol. 3, p. 342Tahzeeb al-Ahkaam, vol. 2 p. 321The list of the infallible guides (a.s.) moved by Fatima’s (s.a.) plight is merely illustrative. The incidents are numerous and involve the highest personalities like the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) and Ameerul Momineen (a.s.).
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Salaamun Alaykum, I recently had a small conversation with a sunni friend pertaining the necessity of sending la'nat on the enemies of ahlulbayt (based on the shia faith). Honestly, I could not make a decision of whether it is right to do so, especially the act of cursing the first three caliphs. The enemies of Islam are gone, and Allah will be the judge of whatever sins they have committed. So why do we, shias, still send la'nat on them? I've heard it from somewhere that it is wajib for us to do so, is that correct? I'll appreciate if you could give me a few points that could help me explain my sunni friend regarding the same. Jazakallah
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Why do our sunni friends do recycling of old and similar posts every time? Few examples are quoted from recent topics http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235014677-disrespecting-sunni-sahaba/ http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234981354-jang-e-jamal/ http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235014647-umar-aisha-and-abu-bakr/page-2 http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235014326-insulting-the-companions/ http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/11333-war-of-jamal-and-stats-of-hazrat-aisha/ http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/47884-is-cursing-aisha-haram/ http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235013888-what-do-shias-really-think-about-abu-bakr-ra/ Do the facts dissucussed rfom both sides change in the light of history?
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(bismillah) (salam) As we know some muslims are against the concept of cursing (la'n). Ayatollah Kamal al haydari explains cursing very shortly & why it's allowed .
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