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Shiism, Sunnism & Mahdi Part 1: Contents Part 2: Introduction

As-Salamu Alaykum Usually me and some of my sunni friends go to a local indoor basketball area used as jummah/khutbah area during fridays, theres a fair amount of people that go but thats besides the point. How do i pray behind them? i usually just pray two rakah reciting my own surahs (after fatiha) and dont really follow along with the sunni imam, is this the right way to pray behind them? If not please tell me how to pray behind them Thanks and have a good day

Full post here: http://youtube.com/post/Ugkx5v0FSgvZKqBA4agBJ4sQmo9d41yDO1qV?si=_eYbib9-CS1Gs8Sc

Hello brothers, I heard a prominent Shia scholar in Pakistan, [Mod Note: names removed] say that due to the ban on writing, compiling, narrating and discussing Hadith under Abu Bakr, Umar and Osman, till Umer bin Abdul Aziz's reign Sunnis did not have any Hadith, except fabrications done under Muawiya. Imam Ali and His Shia however didn't pay heed and wrote down and compiled the Hadith, this is why many of the Sahih books contain Hadith from Shia teacher's. Can anyone explain this in more detail and verify if it's true? Thanks

Ahle-Tashayyo aur Ahle-Tasannun ke aham tareen ikhtilaf ka Qur'ani hal

Ch. 3. of the series "Foes & Allies of God's Caliph: Dare to know before it is too late".

Is it true you can't be or follow Sunni or Shia in state of Insanity or severe mental illness?

Salam just have question about shia mahdi if you believe that the final imam, has been hidden for over 1200 years, what benefit has he brought to the muslims during this entire period of absence? How is it just that Allah would make the guidance and survival of this ummah dependent on someone completely hidden, when the Quran says: ‘This day I have perfected for you your religion, completed My favor upon you, and approved for you Islam as your religion’? Doesn’t this verse show the religion was completed and perfected without the need for any hidden figure? Jazakom Allah Khayr

Salam alaykum, brothers and sisters, I am a 20-year-old Shia Muslim from Afghanistan, and I recently (6-7 months ago) met a Sunni Palestinian sister who is also 20 years old. Alhamdulillah, we quickly formed a strong bond and fell in love. Now, we want to make our relationship halal and legitimate Islamically, as we acknowledge that we have not followed the proper rules thus far. Insha’Allah, we are planning to formalize our relationship by summer. My intention is to approach her father and officially ask for her hand in engagement. However, we are facing a dilemma that I would really appreciate some advice on. While we are both at a valid age for marriage, I recognize that as a male, I may mature later than a female. This raises concerns about how things may unfold in the next 4-5 years and whether I might change in ways that could affect our relationship. That said, I truly want to be with her, especially since she has recently started embracing Shi‘ism. Theologically, we are now aligned, and while we come from different cultural backgrounds, we believe that is something we can manage together. One of my biggest concerns is whether Allah will place barakah in this relationship or if we may struggle due to the way we initially went about it. Since we didn’t follow the correct Islamic guidelines from the start, I fear that this could affect Allah’s support and blessing in our future together. We both want to do things the right way now, but I don’t know if that is enough to make up for our past mistakes. I would really appreciate advice on the following: How can we ensure that our marriage is blessed with barakah despite our past mistakes? Am I realistically too young to commit to marriage at this stage, or is this just an unnecessary worry? If age is a concern, what signs should I look for to determine whether I am truly ready? Jazakum Allahu khayran.

Salamun 'alaykum, we hear a lot about Islamic unity, so I ask: What should unity be based upon and with whom is it possible? Allah ta'ala says: 5:2 وَتَعَاوَنُواْ عَلَى ٱلْبرِّ وَٱلتَّقْوَىٰ وَلاَ تَعَاوَنُواْ عَلَى ٱلإِثْمِ وَٱلْعُدْوَانِ ٢ And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. ___ And: 3:104 وَلْتَكُن مِّنْكُمْ أُمَّةٌ يَدْعُونَ إِلَى ٱلْخَيْرِ وَيَأْمُرُونَ بِٱلْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ ٱلْمُنْكَرِ وَأُوْلَـٰئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْمُفْلِحُونَ ١٠٤ And let there be [arising] from you a nation inviting to [all that is] good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong, and those will be the successful. ___ So Islamic unity should be based upon enjoying all that is good and cooperation in righteousness / piety and opposing all froms of evil, corruption and oppression. As such unity is not possible with people, who do not see any need for a change and who think that oppression and oppressors should not be opposed. What is the point of unity with a people, who argue for the oppressors or at least accept the status quo and this in clear opposition to the Book of Allah ta'ala by following the footsteps of the wrongdoers of those from the nations before us?!: 5:79 كَانُواْ لاَ يَتَنَاهَوْنَ عَن مُّنكَرٍ فَعَلُوهُ لَبِئْسَ مَا كَانُواْ يَفْعَلُونَ ٧٩ They used not to prevent one another from wrongdoing that they did. How wretched was that which they were doing. ___ Their state is similar to that of those who lack true faith and are in fact in doubt. So depending on them leads only to increase in confusion and chaos: 9:47 لَوْ خَرَجُواْ فِيكُم مَّا زَادُوكُمْ إِلاَّ خَبَالاً ولأَوْضَعُواْ خِلاَلَكُمْ يَبْغُونَكُمُ ٱلْفِتْنَةَ وَفِيكُمْ سَمَّاعُونَ لَهُمْ وَٱللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِٱلظَّالِمِينَ ٤٧ Had they gone forth with you, they would not have increased you except in confusion, and they would have been active among you, seeking [to cause] you fitnah [i.e., chaos and dissension]. And among you are avid listeners to them. And Allāh is Knowing of the wrongdoers. ___

Salamun 'alaykum, I say to the Sunni brothers to look at their creed and its results! If innocent people are being slaughtered and ethnically cleansed and if little children are dying from hunger and from cold and if houses, schools, universities, mosques, churches and hospitals are being bombed and destroyed without a single Sunni state doing anything serious to help to stop these crimes against humanity, then know that this is only the result of your creed, which was and is silent on the oppressors and attempted and attempts to put the oppressors together with the righteous! - Allah ta'ala says: 4:59 يَا أَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَطِيعُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُواْ ٱلرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي ٱلأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ٥٩ O you who have believed, obey Allāh and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. ___ And He says: 11:113 وَلاَ تَرْكَنُوۤاْ إِلَى ٱلَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ فَتَمَسَّكُمُ ٱلنَّارُ ١١٣ And do not incline toward those who do wrong, lest you be touched by the Fire ___ So does it make any sense to claim that those in authority among us includes those who do wrong?! Despite this you stated: "We obey any ruler [who identifies as a Muslim], no matter whether righteous or a wrongdoer." - Allah ta'ala stated in one of the last chapters that He revealed to our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam): 5:41 يٰأَيُّهَا ٱلرَّسُولُ لاَ يَحْزُنكَ ٱلَّذِينَ يُسَارِعُونَ فِي ٱلْكُفْرِ مِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوۤاْ آمَنَّا بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَلَمْ تُؤْمِن قُلُوبُهُمْ ٤١ O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not ___ And He stated: 9:101 وَمِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُمْ مِّنَ ٱلأَعْرَابِ مُنَٰفِقُونَ وَمِنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْمَدِينَةِ مَرَدُواْ عَلَى ٱلنِّفَاقِ لاَ تَعْلَمُهُمْ نَحْنُ نَعْلَمُهُمْ ١٠١ And among those around you of the bedouins are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Madīnah. They have persisted in hypocrisy. You do not know them, [but] We know them. ___ Despite these clear proofs of the presence of Nifaq and it being not simply a small number of people you instead claimed: "All companions were upright." - And when the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) proclaimed that 'Ali bin Abi Talib ('alayhil salam) is the master of every believer in the same way he is our master and stated: "O Allah, be a friend of those who take him as their friend and be an enemy of those who take him as their enemy." And when our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) informed us that 'Ammar bin Yasir would be killed by the rebellious group and added: "He will be inviting them to paradise and they will invite him to the hell-fire." What did you instead say? You said: "Both groups were righteous and callers to paradise." - And when our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) supplicated AGAINST the leader of the rebellious group by the statement reported by you: "May Allah not fill his belly." What did you do? You completely ignored it and even quoted one of your scholars stating: "Maybe this shows a virtue for Mu'awiya." Now look how you became blind to the truth just in order to defend the oppressors! - Then you said: "But look how many lands they conquered." While Allah ta'ala says: 2:190 وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُوۤاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ ٱلْمُعْتَدِينَ ١٩٠ Fight in the way of Allāh those who fight against you but do not transgress. Indeed, Allāh does not like transgressors. ___ Then you claimed abrogation, as if Allah ta'ala would allow transgression after clearly disallowing it! In your vain you then stated: "Look how God made them great and how the history books are filled with their names." But you forgot what the Creator jalla jalaluhu states: 28:83 تِلْكَ ٱلدَّارُ ٱلآخِرَةُ نَجْعَلُهَا لِلَّذِينَ لاَ يُرِيدُونَ عُلُوّاً فِي ٱلأَرْضِ وَلاَ فَسَاداً وَٱلْعَاقِبَةُ لِلْمُتَّقِينَ ٨٣ That home of the Hereafter We assign to those who do not desire exaltedness upon the earth or corruption. And the [best] outcome is for the righteous. ___ You know the likes of Mu'awiya and Harun al-Rashid and think that their states were great due to their power and control of lands, but do you know who the righteous ones were, who were killed or poisoned by them? Can you name us let us say 5 notable persons from the Prophetic Progeny (peace be upon them) who were martyred by them and tell us why they were opposed to them? Now let us connect the issue with today: Today you claim that the oppressors that rule you do not represent you and that the only reason you can't help our brothers and sisters is because of the rulers! But let me remind you: You defended the oppressors of the past - those who would fight the Prophetic Progeny (peace be upon them) and martyr them - and claimed the oppressors to be upright just like the righteous they were fighting or at least worthy to be obeyed, so today your governments are not just oppressors, but also traitors and puppets! A just recompense for defending the oppressors and calling towards their obedience! And if you're astonished about the fact that the only people who are at least trying to help are the Imamiyya and the Zaydiyya - despite both being minorities! - and some of them even got martyred in the process, then know that this is due to the fact that both of these groups do NOT believe in inclination towards those who do wrong NOR in obedience towards oppressors! So when will you return to Allah ta'ala and disassociate yourself from the oppressors of the past and the present?

Salamun 'alaykum, my background is Sunni and I have to admit that there were a lot of things that I would hear or see from people, who regard themselves as Shi'a, that would make me not even consider Tashayyu' (Shi'ism) to be true and this despite always having huge respect and love for Amir al-Muminin 'Ali bin Abi Talib (peace be upon him). What made me change my mind is listening to the Shaykh Hasan bin Farhan al-Maliki and reading his articles. That's why I would like to give my Shi'a brothers, who are upon the Madhhab of al-Imamiyya / al-Ithna 'Ashariyya (considering that 12ers constitute the majority of Shi'a today) some advice in order not to end up being a reason for people to stay away from Tashayyu': 1. Commemorating the Istishhad (martyrdom) of Imam al-Hussayn (peace be upon him) and that of others from the Ahl al-Bayt (peace be upon them) in a manner that people understand the reason behind these tragic incidents and the lessons for us to learn from them. A lot of Shi'a today unfortunately think of it as some sort of ritual, where you have to beat your self in a specific beat or crawl on the ground or do other weird actions and that's it. The outsider will only see these weird actions and not really understand what the matter actually is (like standing up against oppression). 2. Highlighting the importance of depending on Allah ta'ala in all situations and that Tawassul through the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) and his pure Progeny is legistaled and not going overboard. While there is no doubt that asking Allah ta'ala through the Wasila of our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) and his pure Progeny is legislated and has been acted upon by pretty much everyone prior to the emergence of the Najdi extremists (who relied upon the claims of the anthropomorphist Nasibi Ibn Taymiyya), this does not mean that one should call upon them in a manner that is only befitting for Allah ta'ala nor to make ones heart depend on Asbab and become heedless of our Creator jalla jalaluhu. 3. Highlighting the importance of staying chaste and staying away from sexual immortality and not forgetting the wisdom behind rulings. Some Shi'a today will defend temporary marriage as if it's the most important thing in the religion, not knowing that even fellow Shi'a (like the Zaydiyya) may disallow it and forgetting that rulings have a wisdom behind them and that even a permissible thing may lead to sinfulness if taken out of its correct context of application and misused. Take polygamy as an example: If a person marries more than one woman and ends up being injust to one [or all] of them, then he will be sinful despite the contract itself being correct. The Shaykh Ahmad al-Waeli mentioned that Mut'a should only be done, if there is a necessity and he gave an example: A person travels to a land to study for a long time and enters into such type of marriage to protect himself from immorality. I mentioned the above three points, because these three directly come to the Sunni mind and are quite off-putting in that they lead to not even consider Tashayyu' as the correct view.

Salamun 'alaykum, I have a question directed towards both Sunnis and Shia: What is the importance of Ahadith in the religion of Islam and did Allah ta'ala give us any guarantee regarding them? Note that the Jews and the Christians mixed the revelation from Allah ta'ala with narrations and biographical data, which led to the formation of the Bible as we know today. So them adding these things led to the distortion of the real message. Similar to this happened when the scholars of Hadith and the Tadwin of Ahadith gained prominence, which led the Book of Allah ta'ala being [mis]interpreted in the light of these Ahadith even if it meant opposing the Book of Allah ta'ala and opposing what was established from the words of the Best of Creation (may endless peace and blessings be upon him and his pure family) with certainity. This means that despite the Quran remaining in its original form, many Muslims still managed to distort the real message and thereby fell into that which the nations before them also had fallen into. Some of the [wrong] ideas that entered the religion through Ahadith: - The idea that [the claim of] belief is enough and that oppression, major crimes and sins will not affect the ultimate salvation / damnation of a human being - The idea that oppressive rulers are still legitimate and that they need to be obeyed - The idea of anthropomorphism - The idea of determinism Note that the above ideas were supported by the political leadership, because these ideas made it easier to control the population. So the scholars of Hadith were knowingly or unknowingly serving them. The above obviously doesn't mean that all Ahadith are wrong and that there is no benefit found in Ahadith at all. There are things mass-narrated by many people and through many chains such that it allows having certainity of it being stated by the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) in reality. Examples would be the Hadith of Ghadir, the Hadith of Manzila and the Hadith al-Thaqalayn, which should give you a good idea who understood the Book of Allah ta'ala the best and lived according to it. With the above in mind, why should our salvation or damnation be dependent on whether we trust Sahih al-Bukhari or Kitab al-Kafi?! Did Allah ta'ala oblige us to trust the single reports of random fallible narrators and take their claims as the religion of Allah ta'ala itself?!

Salamun 'alaykum, this is one of the topics were most Sunnis and Shi'a today can only think in a "black or white"-manner and as such are unable to accept any criticism of their views in one direction or the other. Instead of thinking of the Shaykhayn as two angels (as most Sunnis today do) or as two evil persons (as most Shi'a today do), there is also the option to look at them from a more balanced perspective: They were two Muslim rulers, who tried to be just - that's why the majority of the Muhajirin and Ansar did not oppose their rule - but had also mistakes. The view of them being similar to angels and the view of them being evil are both based upon narrations. These narrations - especially concerning this subject - were heavily influenced by politics and as such far away from being reliable unlike what the two opposing sides claim. We know that Allah ta'ala has praised the Sabiqun al-Awwalun from among the Muhajirin and the Ansar and we also know that the majority of them did not oppose the rule of the Shaykhayn. We also know - unlike what some Shi'a today claim - that they did care for justice and would for example never accepted that anyone hits Fatima (peace be upon her) as is claimed in some narrations. (There are different versions, some are nearer to the truth, while other contain clear exaggerations, which are insulting towards all Muslims of that time in reality.) How does it come that the same Muhajirin and Ansar were not pleased when 'Uthman bin 'Affan started to put his relatives in positions of power? How does it come that the majority of the Muslims that participated in the Battle of Badr and those who pledged allegiance to the Best of Creation (peace and blessings be upon him) under the tree sided with the Prince of the Believers (peace be upon him) against Mu'awiya and his ilk. How does it come that the same Muhajirin / Ansar and their children stood against Yazid after the martyrdom of Imam al-Hussayn (peace be upon him) and were likewise martyred as a result. Then: Imam 'Ali (peace be upon him) was in the Majlis al-Shura of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, who would usually take the position of Imam 'Ali, if he would have a recommendation regarding an issue. Not just that: Major companions that were close to Imam 'Ali, were in positions of power under 'Umar. What people do not take into consideration is that some positions became issues of creed later on, but were not understood as such by earlier Muslims. Take the event of Ghadir: Yes, it's not possible to get out of this event without acknowledging a special status and religious leadership to Imam 'Ali bin Abi Talib (peace be upon him) upon all believers and without understanding that Imam 'Ali is with the truth and those opposing him are upon falsehood, but it does not necessitate political leadership. Especially when Imam 'Ali did not declare himself as such (which he could have done from the very beginning on) and only drew the sword when it came to Mu'awiya and his likes and not before. Even if political leadership is meant, then it's still possible that the Shaykhayn knew that the Bani Umayya would not accept such a leadership and would cause problems and tried to find another solution. Think about it: 'Umar put those close to Imam 'Ali in positions of power and would have even preferred him as the Khalifa after his rule. What is ironic here is that the above mentioned way of thinking is closer to that of the companions, who supported Imam 'Ali (meaning the very first real Shi'a), which is why they had no problems to be under the Shaykhayn (even in positions of power!), but clearly had a problem with Mu'awiya. I personally believe that the Zaydiyya (majority of Shi'a were Zaydiyya or close to them in the past) and someone like Shakyh Ahmad al-Waeli from among the Twelvers had a more balanced view than many Sunnis and Shi'a today.

Salamun 'alaykum, our brothers and sisters are getting slaughtered left and right and all some people can do is to show hatred towards other Muslims due to some differences in their school of thought. The issue doesn't even stop here! Some of these people are happy that the oppressors have killed Muslims that they disagree with! Let no one try to fool himself! Allah ta'ala is the Most Just and your secterian ideas will not lead to your salvation, but rather to the opposite! And if someone says "but look what they did in Syria and Iraq", then the answer is: And did you forget what people from the opposing side did there?! Or is it that you're blind to your own faults and only see the faults of one side? 5:8 يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ كُونُوا۟ قَوَّٰمِينَ لِلَّهِ شُهَدَآءَ بِٱلْقِسْطِ ۖ وَلَا يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَـَٔانُ قَوْمٍ عَلَىٰٓ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا۟ ۚ ٱعْدِلُوا۟ هُوَ أَقْرَبُ لِلتَّقْوَىٰ ۖ وَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ خَبِيرٌۢ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ ٨ O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allāh, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allāh; indeed, Allāh is [fully] Aware of what you do. ___

I tried to post this on Sunni forums hoping they would be able to cite works from the 4 school, but I guess the posts haven't been verified to be put up yet. I'm currently learning between the Sunni and Shia and as of right now and I'm truthfully conflicted, the Sunnis in my opinion have more rigid practices and I guess unity , but despite this, i can't get over the fact their conception of god doesn't fulfil Tawhid al-Uluhiyyah and Tawhid al-Asma’ wa al-Sifat. I just want to know why as a Sunni I can't believe in divine simplicity, every video I watch about just talks about how we can't but never go into it, like what happened in history, that not one of the four, thought it would be beneficial too have the belief of divine simplicity?!

I see the recent trend of Sunnis/Salafis converting to Shia Islam. This is well known, but what about non muslim converts, is it popular among them?

Salaam I have a query, I read the Lord's prayer recently. and I fail to see HOW this is haram?????? "Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." What is haram about this ??? Its asking Allah to give us rizq, forgive us and save us from evil? how is it haram?? @A

Salaam, I am a recent convert to Islam. I thought that the UK and Ireland had one of the most terrible but unique dynamics when it came to religious sectarianism. I was wrong, it pales in comparison to Islam. Has nobody found it strange how emphasised the differences between basic Sunni and Shia principles are? It seems quite clear to me but that is from a newcomer perspective. From the Sunni side, I have heard abhorrent and alienating things about Shias. I'm sure that the same applies vice versa. Ultimately though, the basic principles are the same and actual differences are minimal. Both sides believe in in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), the significance of Prophet Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), that the Quran is the word/of Islam, in praying to Allah, in the principles of Islam like charity and elderly care, Ramadan. There are some differences with how the two sides carry out their beliefs in these things but at the end of the day, both sides faithfully and legitimately follow Islam. One major difference I've heard is about Abu Bakr vs Ali. I may be incompetent as a newcomer but is this matter even religious. It is a debate about the leadership of a caliphate (Islamic version of empire) so it is ultimately political. Yes, the election process did seem rushed and shady. However, there is no rightful leader. Abu Bakr was a great man and devoted follower of Islam as was Ali. Regardless of the leader, Islam does not change from how it was revealed to us. Now, it is one thing to be passionate about your version of Islam but wrong to disrespect other views. Before converting, I was sceptical and hateful of Islam. Now I see, Islam is no the problem - it is the Muslims. It's absurd that we treat other sects worse than we treat Christians and Jews (though we should not be treating anyone badly). The Prophet Muhammed (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) formed the Rashidun Caliphate out of peace and cooperation. Bear in mind, not all places absorbed into the Caliphate were Islamic but the Prophet united all. For example, we stuck a deal with the Christian city of Najran. The sectarian divide is so much so that some countries even execute certain sects. Islam, to me it seems, is the most passionate about itself which is good. It is fierce and enthusiastic. But then, this becomes twisted and corrupted into superiority complexes, extremist ideas about martyrdom and jihadism etc. You are not a good Muslim if you die as a martyr for a war you wrongfully wage and instigate. The Middle East especially is a shameless embodiment of sectarianism and corrupted Islam. Sorry for this ranting but it genuinely upsets me to see something good (Islam) be tainted so much by selfish peoples. Bad media depictions of Islam do not come out of thin air, they media can justify it because of the way Islam is practiced.

What is the view on this statement from The Sunni-Shia Divide | Council on Foreign Relations www.cfr.org/article/sunni-shia-divide "Many Christian, Jewish, and Zoroastrian converts to Islam chose to become Shia rather than Sunni in the early centuries of the religion as a protest against the ethnic Arab empires that treated non-Arabs as second-class citizens. Their religions influenced the evolution of Shia Islam as distinct from Sunni Islam in rituals and beliefs."

Abu Qatadah reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, you will never leave anything for the sake of Allah Almighty but that Allah will replace it with something better for you.” Source: Musnad Aḥmad 23074