Search the Community

I know its a shia chat forum, but have seen many syeds related threads here. What is your take on people claiming they are Naqvi/Bokhari Syeds with immediate grandfathers migrated from Iran (places close by). I am not able to find any sources that link them to Iran apart from that a lot naqvi syeds still reside in Iran. Also in Pakistan Naqvi and Bokhari syeds are both the same, is that true? Also if bokhari syeds were from Bokhara how come they claim their grandfathers were from Iran?

(Bismillah) Salam, I want to know how much authentic the hadith collection of Muhammad al-Bukhari is. In my opinion, all the hadiths in this collection might not be right and might not be wrong either. I am particularly interested in those ahadith which raise questions and subjected to criticism because of their contradiction to Quran, or contradiction to another authentic hadith or because of the chain of narrator etc. I would be much obliged if you please give an answer. And in that case, I am sure, your answer will be comprised with both Sunni and Shia references. I would also like to know what is the view of modern scholars, both from Sunni and Shia school, regarding this issue. Thank You. Abdullah.

Allah says in Quran: {Certainly did Allah confer [great] favor upon the believers when He sent among them a Messenger from themselves, reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom, although they had been before in manifest error.} [3:164] {Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know.} [2:151] {And those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what has been sent down upon Muhammad – and it is the truth from their Lord – He will remove from them their misdeeds and amend their condition.} [47:2] Therefore a Muslim must follow everything the Prophet (saw) says, everything he does, and everything he accepts and allows from the actions of those believers surrounding him. The Prophet whom Allah chose is the source of all knowledge, so from where should someone take his orders, his instructions and explanations? From the books of Ahlul-Sunnah? Or the books of the Ahle Tashayyu? 1- SAHIH AL-BUKHARI: Orders, sayings and instructions taken from the source of knowledge Muhammad (saw). -Bukhari has 7,593 narrations in his book with repetitions, plus 1,341 Mu`allaqat. -It is rare to find a non-prophetic narration in al-Bukhari, the vast majority of its narrations are prophetic sayings or orders or actions or description of his (saw) physical look or his interpretation of Qur’anic verses or decisions in military or economic matters or descriptions of his society and the location in which he lived (saw). A quick browse in the book by anyone easily shows that it is hard to find non-prophetic narrations in it. -After its chains of transmission have been analysed and scrutinized, the scholars of Ahlul-Sunnah have a consensus that the narrations in this book are all reliable and authentic except for maybe five or seven reports in which there is disagreement. 2- KAFI AL-KULAYNI: Orders, sayings and instructions taken from the source of knowledge Muhammad (saw). A quick browse through al-Kafi unveils that there is barely any mention of the Prophet (saw) in the book. The vast majority of its contents appear to be opinions and sayings of 5th and 6th Shia Imam. Everyone know that Allah ordered us in the Qur’an to follow the guidance and commands of the Prophet Muhammad (saw), there was no mention of any guidance that needs to be taken from other than Prophet. Prophetic narrations are those who explicitly state: The Prophet (saw) said this, or the Prophet (saw) did that etc. Moreover, Renowned Shia scholar of Hadith, Ayatullah al-`Allamah `Abdullah al-Mamaqani al-Najafi says in his book of Hadith sciences “Miqbas-ul-Hidaya” vol.1 pg.198: إن ثاني الشهيدين بعد نقله عن الأكثر عدم العمل بالحسن و الموثق لاشتراطهم في قبول الخبر: الإيمان, و العدالة, كما قطع به جماعة قال: و العجيب أن الشيخ (الطوسي) اشترط ذلك أيضا في كتبه الأصولية, و وقع له في الحديث و كتب الفروع الغرائب, فتارة يعمل بالخبر الضعيف مطلقا حتى أنه يخصص به أخبار كثيرة صحيحة حيث تعارضه باطلاقها, و تارة يصرح برد الحديث لضعفه, و أخرى يرد الصحيح معللا بأنه خبر واحد لا يوجب علما و لا عملا In summary he says that al-Shaheed al-Thani (Zayn-ul-Deen bin `Ali al-`Amili) narrated the opinion of the vast majority of the Shia scholars that one cannot use or work with the Hasan or Muwathaq narrations since the Shia placed two conditions to accept a narration: 1-Iman (Faith of the narrator). 2-`Adalah (Reliability of his narrations). In short, what the author is saying is that the Hasan Hadith has gathered the condition of Iman but lost that of `Adalah, while the Muwathaq has gathered the condition of `Adalah but lost that of Iman, and I add that the Hasan is superior to the Muwathaq in Shia Hadith since they care more about the religion of the man than his reliability as narrator. Summary of Prophetic narrations in Kafi: Total number of narrations in al-Kafi is taken from al-Shaheed al-Awwal as written in al-Ijtihad wal-Taqleed by al-Khu’i and is 16,199 narrations. As per authentication of al-Majlisi in “Mir’at al-`Uqoul” following are results.-TOTAL SAHIH: 285. / Percentage out of total in al-Kafi = 1.75%-TOTAL HASAN: 358. / Percentage out of total in al-Kafi = 2.21%-TOTAL MUWATHAQ: 128. / Percentage out of total in al-Kafi = 0.79%-TOTAL WEAK: 1,624. / Percentage out of total in al-Kafi = 10%-TOTAL UNGRADED: 13. / Percentage out of total in al-Kafi = 0.08%> TOTAL NUMBER OF PROPHETIC NARRATIONS: 2,408 out of 16,199 / Percentage out of total in al-Kafi = 14.86% with repetition. FURTHERMORE: -All “Sahih” narrations listed above are not connected to the messenger (saw), the chain usually stops at Ja`far al-Sadiq who was born 70 years after the death of the source of knowledge Muhammad (saw). -Only about one or two narrations in this entire book are actually connected to Prophet Muhammad (saw) such as the one from Jabir bin `Abdullah in volume 5, page 325, chapter “Worst of women.” -Almost every narration listed as “Hasan” above, comes through the path of one narrator and he is Ibrahim bin Hashim al-Qummi, whose reliability was not documented but is assumed to be “honest”. FINAL WORDS: The unbiased researcher who follows Allah’s instructions will naturally lean towards the book with the biggest number of authentic and connected prophetic narrations as the Qur’an has planted in our hearts the love of Muhammad (saw) and our eagerness to learn more about his noble life will drive us towards the best religious source. Original Source with more details. THOUGHTS?

Salam to everyone out there! I urge everyone to read this post CAREFULLY. Being a sunni myself I find many sunni beliefs to be absolutely strange. I am born into a sunni family and have been practicing sunni Islam for decades. However, sunnis' blind belief in bukhari narrations have shocked me. It wasn't until I read bukhari myself. I found many ridiculous things in that book. In fact, many things found in bukhari are total non-sense and it looks like someone deliberately tried to corrupt this collection by adding false things in it. For example, bukhari contains a narration that states that monkey used to stone and kill each other for committing adultery. I find it strange that how can Sunnis believe in such a book that narrates such things. I asked a question about authenticity of bukhari from a strict bukhari believer some time ago. I told him that I don't believe in some narrations of bukhari, and he became furious and angry. He started to say things like "You are infected with believe that not all narrations in bukhari are authentic". The aim of this post is to investigate some claims sunnis put forward to make the case of bukhari strong. Here are some reasons for why sunnis believe in bukhari, and I want shia perspective on this. Reason #1. Sound chain of Narrators in Bukhari's collection Sunnis claim that bukhari's collection contain narrations that are extremely sound. It is very unlikely that bukhari's collection might contain fabricated narrations. Reason #2 Reliable Narrators Secondly, Sunnis also state that Bukharis collection is authentic because all the narrators in bukhari's collection are authentic, according to sunni Islam. Reason #3 Bukhari's criteria of hadith selection This third reason is also put forward by most sunnis. They claim that bukhari's criteria of selecting hadith was very strict. He never included anything in his collection until or unless he investigated and thoroughly examined narrations himself. So he cannot include fabricated narrations in his collection. Reason #4 Bukhari was a hadith expert Sunnis and many followers of bukhari also state that Bukhari was a hadith expert. He was a learned scholar who had great knowledge of hadith. Therefore, he should be trusted. My main question is: what is shia perspective on these reasons sunnis give for authenticity of bukhari? I think that the shia view is completely different from Sunni view of hadith. Shias believe that there is no such thing as "Sahih collection of hadith" because hadith collectors were fallible men. In fact, shias don't even consider their own hadith books as "100% authentic". I personally think that shias are RIGHT on this subject. I endorse this shia belief. However, I am not considering conversion to shia sect because of some issues associated with shia sect (I will create a new post about these issues later). However, can a sunni remain a sunni if he doesn't believe in SOME narrations of bukhari?

CLICK HERE TO WATCH VIDEO

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani writes in his famous Tabaqat al Mudalliseen, in which he gives a list of those who committed tadlees (distortion) i.e. they narrated things in a way which was not the original wording and thus changed the meaning. In the first volume on the 24th page, he speaks about the 23rd mudallis he lists in his book : 23ق س محمد بن إسماعيل بن إبراهيم بن المغيرة البخاري الامام وصفه بذلك أبو عبد الله بن مندة في كلام له فقال فيه اخرج البخاري قال فلان وقال لنا فلان وهو تدليس ولم يوافق بن مندة على ذلك والذي يظهر أنه يقول فيما لم يسمع وفيما سمع لكن لا يكون على شرطه أو موقوفا قال لي أو قال لنا وقد عرفت ذلك بالاستقراء من صنيعه Muhammad ibn Isma'il ibn Ibrahim ibn al-Mugheera al-Bukhari, the Imam. Abu Abdullah ibn Munda accused him of this (distortion), saying: Al-Bukhari said fulan (somebody) said this and fulan (somebody) said that, and it was tadlees (distortion). In fact Ibn Mundah did not stop there. What has become apparent is that he would say what he didn't actually hear, or that he heard but it didn't fit his conditions, or he was narrating in a mawquf manner, saying "he said to me" or "they said to us". And I have come to know this through reading his book. What Ibn Hajar says is no surprise, because when you read his work you find that he clips out a lot of crucial information. A famous example is raziyat yawm al-Khamees (Calamity of Thursday) , where he clips out the name of Umar where Umar says his famous line "He is delirious, the Qur'an is sufficient for us" and there are actually many, many examples. والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

You allow your best hadith book to be the one that insults the Prophets (as) of God? You believe this to be sahih? Brothers from Ahlul Sunnah, just look at them. Prophet Solomon boasted that he would impregnate one hundred women in one night, but only one woman became pregnant and gave birth to a half-formed child (Bukhari, Book of Nikah 3:110). Seriously ? You believe that? The Holy Messenger used to have intercourse with all of his wives in one hour of the day and night and these wives were eleven. That is an insult to the best of Allah's creation The Holy Prophet asked, “Who will buy this slave from me?” Hazrat Naeem bought him for 800 Darham (Bukhari, Kitabul Ikrah p.669). Did the Holy Prophet sell slaves? The Prophet disapproved of his companion Jabir’s plan to marry a widow and asked, "Why did you not marry a virgin so that you played with her and she played with you?"That is an insult to the best of Allah's creation . The Messenger of Allah was known to be compassionate with widows but worse would the Prophet advise Jabir to marry a woman for sexual desires? Ali stated that he suffered from “jiryan” (drainage of prostate secretions) constantly (Bukhari, Kitabul Ilm p.150). That shows that this book is corrupted by Banu Umayyahs hate for Ahlul Bayt After the fall of Khyber, people described the beauty of Safia Bint Hui, the new bride of a slain enemy soldier. The Prophet chose her for himself. On the way to Madina he stopped and had intercourse with her. His companions did not know if she was a wife or a concubine. Later, a veil was drawn between her and the men-folk and they came to know that she was a wife. Seriously? The best of Allahs creation behaves like that? Aisha said to the Prophet, “Ah! My head is bursting.” He said, “I wish it did.” Aisha responded: “You want me to die so that you can spend the next night with another wife” (Bukhari, Book of Medicine, vol.3). That is either Aisha's rudeness or another fabrication. Open your eyes.

Salaam to all. Has there been any compilation of hadiths which both Shia and Sunni agree upon ?

(bismillah) (salam) I have recently started reading Bukhari. I thought it would be fun and interesting to research sunni hadith books whom are according to them second to the holy quran and contain sahih standards by their past and present scholars and writers of the books themselves. This will be on going so please bear with me. I just started randomly on Volume 5, Book 57. My source is from http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/ . I kindly request no spamming and off topic posts and I will report your posts if you fail this rule. If you would also like to put your input please do so an in intellectual manner with proper format. It would be kind to do so, similar to my format. Please forgive me for any grammar mistakes. inshAllah the aim of this thread is to free peoples minds of these chains restricting their ability to think for themselves. I mean absolutely no disrespect for my muslim brothers in faith. I am pro-unity and would love each of us to respect one another and follow the truth path of Allah and His messenger Muhammad. I am on a journey of seeking the truth, that is all. (wasalam) 1. Volume 5, Book 57, Number 13 : Narrated by Abu Ad-Darda While I was sitting with the Prophet, Abu Bakr came, lifting up one corner of h is garment uncovering h is knee. The Prophet said, "Your companion has had a quarrel." Abu Bakr greeted (the Prophet ) and said, "O Allah's Apostle! There was something (i.e. quarrel) between me and the Son of Al-Khattab. I talked to him harshly and then regretted that, and requested him to forgive me, but he refused. This is why I have come to you." The Prophet said thrice, "O Abu Bakr! May Allah forgive you." In the meanwhile, 'Umar regretted (his refusal of Abu Bakr's excuse) and went to Abu Bakr's house and asked if Abu Bakr was there. They replied in the negative. So he came to the Prophet and greeted him, but signs of displeasure appeared on the face of the Prophet till Abu Bakr pitied ('Umar), so he knelt and said twice, "O Allah's Apostle! By Allah! I was more unjust to him (than he to me)." The Prophet said, "Allah sent me (as a Prophet) to you (people) but you said (to me), 'You are telling a lie,' while Abu Bakr said, 'He has said the truth,' and consoled me with himself and his money." He then said twice, "Won't you then give up harming my companion?" After that nobody harmed Abu Bakr. This hadith is interesting. Things to note hear. We hear great things about these companions but it looks like they fight amongst themselves. Not only that, but its interesting to note here that Umar accused the prophet of telling a lie. 2. Volume 5, Book 57, Number 16 : Narrated by Abu Huraira I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "While I was sleeping, I saw myself standing at a well, on it there was a bucket. I drew water from the well as much as Allah wished. Then Ibn Abi Quhafa (i.e. Abu Bakr) took the bucket from me and brought out one or two buckets (of water) and there was weakness in his drawing the water. May Allah forgive his weakness for him. Then the bucket turned into a very big one and Ibn Al-Khattab took it over and I had never seen such a mighty person amongst the people as him in performing such hard work, till the people drank to their satisfaction and watered their camels that knelt down there." This hadith is showing a metaphor in regards to the prophet and his dream. So it ends up being that Abu Bakr is weak and that when it was umars turn to bring water from the well, his bucket grew and Muhammad A.S never seen such a strong person bringing up so much well. Its funny because sunnis always talk so much about the equality of greatness amongst the companions but yet there is this conflicting competition seen in different hadiths that makes you wonder how much of these are made up. 3. Volume 5, Book 57, Number 18 : Narrated by Abu Huraira I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "Anybody who spends a pair of something in Allah's Cause will be called from all the gates of Paradise, "O Allah's slave! This is good.' He who is amongst those who pray will be called from the gate of the prayer (in Paradise) and he who is from the people of Jihad will be called from the gate of Jihad, and he who is from those' who give in charity (i.e. Zakat) will be called from the gate of charity, and he who is amongst those who observe fast will be called from the gate of fasting, the gate of Raiyan." Abu Bakr said, "He who is called from all those gates will need nothing," He added, "Will anyone be called from all those gates, O Allah's Apostle?" He said, "Yes, and I hope you will be among those, O Abu Bakr. So this hadith is talking about the characteristics of one who will be called into the gates of paradise. Its interesting to note hear that Abu Bakr asks the prophet if anyone will be called from ALL those hadiths, and the prophets response is that he HOPES that abu bakr will be among those whom do. Meaning, even Muhammad A.S doesn’t know if the so called greatest companion and first caliph, and according to sunnis, “the companions are the most righteous and heaven lies for them”, will be admitted to all gates. So how is it sunnis make such judgments? Unless, there are countless hadiths in contradiction. To me this brings a question mark in my head about abu bakrs character, why? Well look at the so called gates of heaven. If the prophet isn’t sure abu bakr qualifies for all the gates, it implies abu bakr failing one of those commands. 4. Volume 5, Book 57, Number 19 : Narrated by 'Aisha (the wife of the Prophet) Allah's Apostle died while Abu Bakr was at a place called As-Sunah (Al-'Aliya) 'Umar stood up and said, "By Allah! Allah's Apostle is not dead!" 'Umar (later on) said, "By Allah! Nothing occurred to my mind except that." …When Abu Bakr spoke, 'Umar sat down. Abu Bakr praised and glorified Allah and said, No doubt! Whoever worshipped Muhammad, then Muhammad is dead, but whoever worshipped Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die." The people wept loudly, and the Ansar were assembled with Sad bin 'Ubada in the shed of Bani Saida. They said (to the emigrants). "There should be one 'Amir from us and one from you." Then Abu Bakr, Umar bin Al-Khattab and Abu 'baida bin Al-Jarrah went to them. 'Umar wanted to speak but Abu Bakr stopped him. 'Umar later on used to say, "By Allah, I intended only to say something that appealed to me and I was afraid that Abu Bakr would not speak so well. Then Abu Bakr spoke and his speech was very eloquent. He said in his statement, "We are the rulers and you (Ansars) are the ministers (i.e. advisers)," Hubab bin Al-Mundhir said, "No, by Allah we won't accept this. But there must be a ruler from us and a ruler from you." Abu Bakr said, "No, we will be the rulers and you will be the ministers, for they (i.e. Quarish) are the best family amongst the 'Arabs and of best origin. So you should elect either 'Umar or Abu 'Ubaida bin Al-Jarrah as your ruler." 'Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No but we elect you, for you are our chief and the best amongst us and the most beloved of all of us to Allah's Apostle." So 'Umar took Abu Bakr's hand and gave the pledge of allegiance and the people too gave the pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr. Someone said, "You have killed Sad bin Ubada." 'Umar said, "Allah has killed him." 'Aisha said (in another narration), ("When the Prophet was on his death-bed) he looked up and said thrice, (Amongst) the Highest Companion (See Qur'an 4.69)' Aisha said, Allah benefited the people by their two speeches. 'Umar frightened the people some of whom were hypocrites whom Allah caused to abandon Islam because of 'Umar's speech. Then Abu Bakr led the people to True Guidance and acquainted them with the right path they were to follow so that they went out reciting: "Muhammad is no more than an Apostle and indeed many Apostles have passed away before him..." (3.144) This hadith is highly important. It is on the day of the prophets death. One quick thing to note is that in this hadith, there is no a single mention of the prophets family anywhere. It doesn’t make any sense what so ever. How can the prophets own flesh and blood not be mentioned or have any input at all. It is honestly outrageous. It contains some mind-boggling content. The first is that Umar denies the prophet is dead. For us shias who are always accused of senseless things, how come no one has criticized many of the companions for such statements said in many hadiths? Second it is shown that Abu Bakr puts a limitation on Allah. He says that Allah is alive and never dead. Allah is above death and life. Abu Bakr is equating existence to Allah astagfiurllah, that is kufr. The most funniest thing happened next, literally moments after the prophets death and seconds after they were all crying, the ansar with abu bakr and umar and a few others fights over ELECTING a ruler., according to the sunnis, the greatest companions and top notch. This is the most disrespectful thing I have ever heard. The greatest being alive just died and they (“ansar” with abu bakr) are already arguing over who should rule the ummah after him. Are you serious? Not only that but nowhere in the whole quran does it say people should elect a person to represent the religion of Allah. This hadith also goes against the notion that Muhammad A.S elected abu bakr since it contains umars testimony itself! Saying that they choose him. Whats even crazier is someone (umar?) ends up killing sad, in the same place where the prophets body is present, and umar says Allah killed him? Seriously? So he is equating a killer to being a representative of Allah, a divine call made by Allah?!! Now for those who think there are no hypocrites among the companions and ansar, CLEARLY, Aisha states there were hypocrites in the room in the room and supposedly umar scared them while abu bakr guided them.

4.336: Narrated `Abdullah: The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointing to `Aisha's house (i.e. eastwards), he said thrice, "Affliction (will appear from) here," and, "from where the side of the Satan's head comes out (i.e. from the East).

4.336: Narrated `Abdullah: The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointing to `Aisha's house (i.e. eastwards), he said thrice, "Affliction (will appear from) here," and, "from where the side of the Satan's head comes out (i.e. from the East).

Salamun Alaikum I found a really interesting blog on the internet about ahadith from the sahih bukhari. http://bestofbukhari.wordpress.com lets just say that this guy is indulging in some friendly fire ;) But he has raised some very valid points though. Definately worth giving a visit

They are changing and removing their hadiths from their books because we use it against them. The truth and path of ahlulbayt is in their books. It is quite clear. That is why there are so many editions and such. Here are many proofs showing this. http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif

I stumbled across this new video. they attack islam due to traditions found in sunni hadith books! Please brothers and sisters the sahih books are NOT sahih! They made that Muhammad video due to it and now this!

(salam) Farid recently made a failed, veiled attempt to discredit Shaykh al-Sadooq (ra). But, due to the vigilance of our brothers, he crashed woefully. I did mention in that thread that a brother refuted him about a year ago on the honesty of al-Bukhaaree. Rather than address that, Farid turned to Shaykh al-Sadooq (ra), armed only with speculations! When I mentioned that brother's long-standing refutation of him, he rushed to the HCY Naasibi forum to add a "refutation". This is what he wrote: You see, Farid, you are completely missing the point here. The argument of that brother is that al-Bukhaaree took that hadeeth from al-Humaydee. Whether other hadeeth collectors also omitted the name or not is IRRELEVANT to this case. The crux of the argument here is whether al-Bukhaaree faithfully transmitted what al-Humaydee narrated to him or not! As you personally can see, all the narrators you have mentioned are NOT from al-Humaydee. They are from Sufyaan. BUT, this is NOT about Sufyaan. It is about al-Humaydee. Did al-Bukhaaree faithfully transmit from him or not? This is the hadeeth from Saheeh al-Bukhaaree (I am copying from that brother's refutation): 2110 حدثنا الحميدي حدثنا سفيان حدثنا عمرو بن دينار قال أخبرني طاوس أنه سمع ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما يقول بلغ عمر بن الخطاب أن فلانا باع خمرا فقال قاتل الله فلانا ألم يعلم أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال قاتل الله اليهود حرمت عليهم الشحوم فجملوها فباعوها The red part means "al-Humaydee narrated to us". Fine! So, al-Bukhaaree got the hadeeth from al-Humaydee. But, this same al-Humaydee has a book called Musnad al-Humaydee where his narrations are documented. Therefore, it is possible for us to verify what exactly he narrated to al-Bukhaaree. In Musnad al-Humaydee, this is how the hadeeth is recorded: 13 – حدثنا الحميدي ثنا سفيان ثنا عمرو بن دينار قال أخبرني طاوس سمع بن عباس يقول بلغ عمر بن الخطاب أن سمرة باع خمرا فقال قاتل الله سمرة ألم يعلم أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم قال : لعن الله اليهود حرمت عليهم الشحوم فجملوها فباعوها In other words, when al-Humaydee narrated the hadeeth, he mentioned Samrah. BUT, when al-Bukhaaree transmitted the same hadeeth with the same chain FROM HIM, he doctored it. That is the un-refuted argument of our brother. And please do not rush to HCY again for a pseudo-refutation. Address this point DIRECTLY, here.