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I decided to Update the thread because we have more Sunnis on Shia Chat, I would like someone to debate me on this, @Cherub786 @eThErEaL @Maulana Than after I Pick someone than I will debate him/her, similar to my last debate, so we can maintain a peaceful and uninterrupted Debate

Assalam O Alaikum, For ballanced and more approperiate explanation regarding major conflicts and disputes between shias and sunnies watch these videos. May Allah guide us to true teachings of Quran and Sunnah. Ameen

(salam) I often hear from Sunni that though Imam Ali a.s was a good ruler but Muawvia (l.a) was a good politician therefore, he succeeded in competing Imam Ali a.s. Are Sunnis sure that Muawvia (l.a) represents "Great Sunni Politics"? I am sorry if it is so then i see no difference between Sunni politics and present day corrupt, immoral, unislamic, unethical politics. Before answering this post please confront Islamic morals to Muawvia's politics because this thread will include "golden principles of Muawvia's politics" in the later posts.

Muawiyah and Abusing Imam Ali (as) =================================================== What the Prophet said about those who fight, hate, or abuse his Ahlul-Bayt =================================================== The Messenger of Allah said: "Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of hypocrasy." Sunni references: - Sahih Muslim, v1, p48; - Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643; - Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142; - Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128 - Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202 - Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p185 - Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462 This tradition of Prophet was popular to the extent that some of the companions used to say: "We recognized the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali." Sunni references: - Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p639, Tradition #1086 - al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p47 - al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v3, p242 - Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p91 Also Muslim in his Sahih narrated on the authority of Zirr that: Ali (ra) said: By him who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle (may peace and blessing be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me. - Sahih Muslim, English version, Chapter XXXIV, p46, Tradition #141 Abu Huraira narrated: The Prophet (PBUH&HF) looked toward Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husain, and Fatimah, and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will fight you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you." Sunni references: (1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699 (2) Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p52 (3) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p767, Tradition #1350 (4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149 (5) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p169 (6) al-Kabir, by Tabarani, v3, p30, also in al-Awsat (7) Jamius Saghir, by al-Ibani, v2, p17 (8) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v7, p137 (9) Sawai'q al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p221 (10) Talkhis, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p149 (11) Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p25 (12) Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Tdadition #6145 (13) Others such as Ibn Habban, etc. It is the well-known fact in the history that Muawiyah fought Imam Ali (as). And based on the above tradition of the Prophet(PBUH&HF) the Prophet has declared war on Muawiyah. How can we still love a person whom the Prophet has declared war on him? The Messenger of Allah said: "Whoever hurts Ali, has hurt me" Sunni references: - Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, p483 - Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p580, Tradition #981 - Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p129 - al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p263 - Ibn Habban, Ibn Abd al-Barr, etc. The Messenger of Allah said: "Whoever reviles/curses Ali, has reviled/cursed me" Sunni reference: - al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p121, who mentioned this tradition is Authentic. - Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, p323 - Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p594, Tradition #1011 - Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p130 - Mishkat al-Masabih, English version, Tradition #6092 - Tarikh al-Khulafa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p173 - and many others such as Tabarani, Abu Ya'la, etc.

Some Muslims expressed their unfavorable impressions of Mu'a`wiya in his time. They are as follows: 1. Ibn 'Abba`s: 'Abd Allah b. 'Abba`s, a great Muslim thinker, expressed his opinion of Mu'a`wiya saying: "Mu'a`wiya has no quality to bring him near to the Caliphate.(Al-Mas'u`di, Ha`mish b. al-Athïr, vol. 6, p. 7). 2. Sa'sa'a bin Soha`n Sa'sa'a bin Soha`n al-'Abdi, a great Muja`hid, met Mu'a`wiya in the days of his government, and he asked him: "Which Caliph you have seen me?" Sa'sa'a answered him courageously, saying: "He who rules the people by force, governs over them with pride, and sizes (power) with the means of falsehood, lying, and trickery, is not a caliph! By Allah, at the Battle of Badr, you had neither a sword nor an arrow! You and your father were among those who fought against Allah's Messenger, may Allah bless him and his family! You are a freedman, and son of a freedman. Allah's Messenger, may Allah bless him and his family, released you. Therefore, how is the caliphate appropriate for a freedman?(Al-Mas'u`di, Ha`mish b. al-Athïr, vol. 6, p. 7). 3. Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba, Mu'a`wiya's friend and partner in sins, came to Mu'a`wiya and heard him saying a tradition thereby he slandered the great Prophet. Hence he was dissatisfied with him, left him, went to his son Yazid, and said to him: "I have come from the most malicious of all the people!" Then he related the tradition to him.(Al-Mas'u`di, Muru`jj al-Dhahab, vol. 2, p. 342). 4. Samra bin Jundub Samra bin Jundub, who was a hypocrite and liar, was among those who were indignant with Mu'a`wiya. That was when he removed him from the office of Basrah. Hence he said: "May Allah curse Mu'a`wiya! By Allah, if I had obeyed Allah as I obeyed Mu'a`wiya, He would never had chastised me! (Al-Tabari, Ta`rikh (first edition), vol. 6, p. 157). With this we will end our speech about Mu'a`wiya. He who carefully considers Mu'a`wiya's policy finds it full of acts of disobedience to Allah and His Messenger such as murdering the free, chasing the reformers, violating women, and spreading crimes and offenses.

(salam) Sa’id ibn Uthman ibn Affan asked Muawiyah for governing of Khurasan. Muawiyah said that: “Ubaydullah ibn Ziyad is its governor”[1]. Sa’id said that: "ÇãÇ áÞÏ ÇÕØÚä˜ ÇÈí æ ÑÝǘ ÍÊí ÈáÛÊ ÈÇÕØäÇÚå ÇáãÏíÇáÐí áÇ íÌÇÑí Çáíå æ áÇ íÓÇãí¡ æ æÇááå áÇäÇ ÎíÑ ãäå ÇÈÇ æÇãÇ ÝãÇ Ô˜ÑÊ ÈáÇÁå æ áÇ ÌÇÒíËå ÈÇáÇäå¡ æ ÞÏãÊ Úáí åÐÇ – íÚäí íÒíÏ Èä ãÚÇæíå – æ ÈÇíÚÊ áå æ äÝÓÇ" “He was my father who trained you and brought you up, and ennobled you until under his care and by his graces you reached a position which is ineffable and gained such a place that no one can do that, but you were ungrateful and did not repay his kindnesses, you prefer Yazid to me and make people to swear allegiance to him, I swear to Allah that my father and my mother are better than his and I am also better than him”. Muawiyah said that: "ÇãÇ Çä ʘæä ÎíÑÇ ãä íÒíÏ¡ ÝæÇááå ãÇ ÇÍÈ Çä ÏÇÑí ããáæÁÉ ÑÌÇáÇ ãËᘠÈíÒíÏ¡ æá˜ä ÏÚäí ãä åÐÇ ÇáÞæá æ Óáäí ÇÚؘ" “But about your superiority over Yazid, I swear to Allah, I do not like that my house be full of men like you instead of Yazid, now finish this conversation and say your request to be granted”. Sa’id said that: “O commander of believers! As long as you support Yazid, he will not remain alone, and I will not be satisfied with a part of my right, but now that you refrain from doing that, give me something from what Allah has given to you”. Muawiyah said that: “the governing of Khurasan is yours”, Sa’id said: “what value has khurasan?!” Muawiyah said: “it is only a daily bread for you and your family”. Sa’id left happily, while saying: "1- ИÑÊ ÇãíÑÇáãæãäíä æ ÝÖáå ÝÞáÊ: ÌÒÇå Çááå ÎíÑÇ ÈãÇ æÕá 2- æ ÞÏ ÓÈÞÊ ãäí Çáíå ÈæÇÏÑ ãä ÇáÞæá Ýíå ÂíÉ ÇáÚÞá æ ÇáÒáá 3- ÝÚÇÏ ÇãíÑÇáãæãäíä ÈÝÖáå æ ÞÏ ˜Çä Ýíå ÞÈá ÚæÏÊå ãíá 4- æ ÞÇá ÎÑÇÓÇä ᘠÇáíæã ØÚãå ÝÌæÒí ÇãíÑÇáãæãäíä ÈãÇ ÝÚá 5- Ýáæ ˜Çä ÚËãÇä ÇáÛÏÇÉ ã˜Çäå áãÇ äÇáäí ãä ãá˜å ÝæÞ ãÇ ÈÐá" “1- I mentioned commander of believers (Muawiyah) and his bounty, then I said that Allah blesses him for what he gave. 2- Before that I had spoken angrily with him and said some sayings in which there were signs of wisdom and anxiety. 3- Therefore commander of believers gave me his bounty, whereas before giving that he was not inclined to do that. 4- He told me that: Khurasan is a daily bread for you, Allah rewards commander of believers for his act. 5- If Uthman was in place of him today, I would not be given more than this. When these poems were delivered to Muawiyah, he ordered Yazid to accompany him and give him clothes, and Yazid accompanied him for one parasang (about 6 kilometer).[2] [3] [1] - he went to Khurasan near the end of the year 53 A.H. and stayed there for two years; Tarikh Tabari, vol. 6, p. 166 and vol. 5, p. 297. [2] - Al- Imamah wa al- Siyasah, vol. 1, p. 157 and vol. 1, p. 164. [3] - Shafi'i Shahrudi, A comprehensive selection of Al- Ghadir, p. 1001.