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Found 48 results

  1. News confirmed: Paki Army exporting Armaments and Salafi Shia killers to Syria. Worst part, its going to line the pockets of a few generals and a few political families and would not have any triclle down economic benefit to the cursed land of mass called Pakistan. http://www.dw.de/is-pakistan-aiding-syrian-rebels/a-17528187 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/islamabad/01-Apr-2014/senate-concerned-over-change-in-policy-on-syria http://www.nation.com.pk/national/31-Mar-2014/arms-supply-to-syrian-rebels-to-damage-pakistan-more-us-expert http://www.brecorder.com/general-news/172/1168385/ There are unconfirmed reports circulating around Islamabad inner circles on almost 100,000 Paki Salafi terrorists being exported to Syria, Iraq, and Yemen to create more destabilization in Shia dominated regions. I wonder when would the payback hit the GCC nations? September 2014 maybe?
  2. Here is an article showing the likes of Imran Khan and his bearded friends their ugly, hypocritical, contorted faces. Good reason he didn't win the national poll last year, or Pakistan would already have become an emirate with Mullah Omar as its defence minister. To put things in context, a famous journalist Raza Rumi who hosts a talk show on an anti-Taliban TV channel was attacked a couple of days ago for speaking out against Takfiri terrorism and the oppression of minorities. Luckily he survived the attack but his driver was killed. On another occasion, a Christian man accused of blasphemy was sentenced to death by a court. It's the same case in the wake of which a mob came crashing into the Joseph Christian Colony (Lahore) and burned down 100+ houses, reacting nothing but only to hearsay. Read full HERE
  3. So the terror export deal is sealed. Pakis sold it cheap this time. Paki government recently received the 1st installment of the $3 billon deal with Saudi government to ship battle hardened Takfiri Talibans to Syria. The terror man power will be shipped along with the paki made anti-tank and anti-air launch pads. Although a very bad news for Syrians and resistance there but also a sure shot doom and gloom for Pakistan too as the blow back would reach Pakistan this time which is already sandwiched between three of the BRIIC nations. Would Syria be able to counter this new waves of trained fighters? How far the Paki terror exports would take the Syrian 'revolution'? Of late these Paki Takfiris have been slaughtering defenseless men, women, and children; how would they fare against the revved up Syrian Arab Army and it's Shia allies? Would Pakistan be able to counter the anti-takfiri political forces with deep pocket allies in its immediate neighbors? Would Pakistan become the new Syria with Takfiris on the receiving end? http://www.ibtimes.com/sunni-side-saudi-arabia-seeking-acquire-arms-pakistan-supply-syrian-rebels-1557572 http://www.voanews.com/content/saudi-pakistan-military-ties-getting-stronger/1855116.html http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/us-pakistan-saudi-idUSBREA2C13G20140313
  4. So the House of Saud is stockpiling weapons. Check. Saudi Arabia's Prince Bandar bin Sultan, financing/weaponizing his growing army of mercenaries in the Levant. Check. And the House of Saud is up to something with its ally Pakistan. Check. The House of Saud is trying to amass as many Pakistani "advisers" as possible to train its paid goons in Syria. The official Pakistani non-denial denial is that they won't be sending their army to Syria. But in a remix of Afghanistan during the 1980s jihad, a bunch of seasoned "advisers" will more than suffice. Former paki spy chief was recently given a key job at Saudi "health ministry"! Until recently, every leadership of every hardcore Islamist gang on the planet shared three traits: they studied in Saudi Arabia; they were financed by Saudi sources (public or private); and they reached their "maturity" in Afghanistan. Now with Syria, the jihadi landscape is getting more diversified. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-03-210214.html http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-28614-Pak-Saudi-defence-cooperation-agreed Comments!
  5. Cat is out of the bag. USA is mulling over paying salaries to Al-Qaeda terrorists in Syria. USA is also allowing Saudis to ship manpads, the shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapons to 'selected' rebels. So this is the rewind of full scale Afghan war of the 1980s. Too bad we don't have the new age John Rambos to cast in hollywood movies for the "mo-ja-hay-deens". Some interesting parallels and a few questions: 1. Turkey playing Pakistan of 1980s. Is Turkey ready to be the Pakistan of 2014s? 2. Suadis playing again what Suaids played in 1980s. Would Saudi Arabia remain "Saudi" Arabia once things go off balance? 3. Can regional minions aka Jordan and UAE take the blowback of open support to the evil forces of Takfiris? Again Pakistan of 2014s come to mind. 4. What will happen to the 'entity' across Jordan river? Isn't Syria too close to take the risk? Are NY bankers suddenly too risk averse? http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/19/opinion/what-next-for-syria.html?hp&rref=opinion http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/syria-rebels-reorganize-push-for-arms/2014/02/18/fb313546-98d9-11e3-b1de-e666d78c3937_story.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/world/middleeast/russia-is-scolded-as-us-weighs-syria-options.html
  6. Assalmu alaykum, As an Econ-Politics student I want to make the General Politics and Current Issues section more active. What is your opinion on this statement: "not all Muslims are terrorists, but (nearly) all terrorists are Muslims" note: this is not my opinion. Is this unquestionable? Do facts show this? Sad but true? What do you think?
  7. (salam) Well, you can say that I'm late posting this thread but believe me; my purpose is not to remind you of the murder of Hakimullah Mehsud - the cursed terrorist who slaughtered innocents in the name of jihad. I want you all - specially Pakistanis - to focus upon two points: - Drone Attacks - Imran Khan's extreme affection for the terrorists - Drone Attacks I suppose we must condemn Drone Attacks when they're accidentally used to blast innocents off. But we should support'em when they aim at the terrorists only. We all know that the Government of Pakistan is in control of the terrorists and Nawaz Sharif - the 'Amir ul Mominin' of the Wahhabi Muslims. Thus, no struggle against terrorism must be hoped from him. - Imran Khan's extreme affection for the terrorists I love Imran Khan because he's one of the best politicians in Pakistan. He has the ability of change the fate of the wretched Pakistan. But I dislike his love and support for the terrorists. What do you all say?
  8. Aslam u Aliekum; Few months ago, I was talking about Shiite killings in the Pakistan and I had to show them a snaps too. But when I try to find out then I faced a lot of problems. Some times, Users mistaged the Snaps. For example, I looked at one snap which was related to the bomb attack in the Bralvi mosque (Peshawer) & User used it as a bomb blast on Shiite Mosque.in the Peshawer. He was unable to verify that snap and hence, mistakenly uploaded wrong snap. Although, there are few other good sites are available on the Face book especially Shia killings who posted snaps of the Martyred Shiites but still I decided to make a one more page on the topic of the Shiite genocide in the Pakistan. I have collected the snaps from different online web sites & write a text on each snap in the English about the detail of that incident. So, it can be helpfull to any one who want to search for snaps related to the Shiite genocides in the Pakistan. You are invited to look at this page too. It can be helpfull for those who want to write about Shiite Genocide/killings in the Pakistan. At the moment, I have uploaded over 400 snaps and God willing, with the Passage of the time, I shall keep on adding it (About Past incidents). https://www.facebook.com/ShiiteGenocideinPakistan Allah Hafiz, Saleem
  9. What is the main reason that the majority of the Muslim terrorist belong to Sunni sect? I'm very curious. One of my friend told me that some of the companions left a legacy(Such as Umar attacked Persia and committed a Persian genocide when he converted them into Islam) and their teachings are extremist teachings. Is it true? If so, please go in-depth for detailed knowledge on their legacy. Thanks a lot brothers.
  10. (salam) Watched news. Heard that Pakistan is going to negotiate with Taliban to make peace with'em. Wonder how stupid they are. But no. They are actually hypocrites. They have soft corner for Taliban. They don't wanna start a military operation against'em. It were these pseudo-religious and extremist political parties who originated terrorism in Pakistan and let Saudi Arabia lay its foundations. Pakistan is capable of dealing with Taliban easily. Their army's 100 times better than Taliban. But Taliban have spread like cancer. They're in bureaucracy, judiciary, military, politics, society etc. How would they raise hand on their own brothers? Pakistan has been occupied by these lewd terrorists now. Poor state! :( I believe that negotiations with Taliban (and all terrorist organizations) is a dream that can't come true. You can't negotiate with a mad dog. It won't listen to you. It wanna bite you and nothing else. If you wanna keep it as a pet then you're an idiot. It's not a risk. It's an irreversible and unpardonable blunder (you can call it a crime as well). Terrorists are wild dogs and when a puppy goes crazy, it's shot, not cured. Government of Pakistan is going to repent because soon negotiations will prove to be fruitless and then they'll be obliged to eradicate terrorism by beheading these terrorists. Hurrah!
  11. Last 12 Months Shia-Sunni-Christian-Hindu Killings in PAKISTAN September 18, 2012 - Eight people were killed, over two dozen injured in twin bomb blasts at Dawoodi Bohra Community in Karachi. November 3, 2012 - The Phandu baba Sufi shrine at Chamkani, near Peshawar, was bombed and partially destroyed. No causalities. November 24, 2012 - The shrine of an 11th century Sufi saint, Ali Mardan Shah, was blown up in the Takhtbhai tehsil of Mardan, K-P. January 10, 2013 - 4 bombings in Quetta and Swat killed over a hundred and injured an estimated 270. Area predominantly Shia Muslim. LeJ took responsibility. February 1, 2013 - A suicide blast killed 19 people, wounded 45 in a market targeting Shias outside a mosque in Hangu. The death toll was reported above 20. February 25, 2013 - Three people were killed, 27 others injured in a bomb attack at Sufi shrine, Dargah Ghulam Shah Ghazi, in the village of Maari near Shikarpur. February 20, 2013 - A roadside bomb hit the caravan of Syed Ghulam Hussain Shah, a renowned Barelvi cleric of Qambar Shahdadkot, killing one person and injuring several others. March 3, 2013 - Twin blasts occurred in the Shia-dominated Abbas Town, Karachi, which left at least 40 dead and over 135 injured. March 9, 2013 - At least four people were killed, 27 were injured in a blast during Zuhr prayer inside Jamia Chishtia mosque, near Meena Bazaar in Peshawar May 3, 2013 - At least 13 people were killed in twin bomb attacks that targeted two mosques in north-western Malakand region. June 20, 2013 - A suicide bomber blew himself up at Hussaini Madrassa in Peshawar, killing 15 people and leaving 22 injured. July 11, 2013 - Two people were killed and seven injured when explosives rigged to a motorcycle went off outside a mosque frequented by both Sunni and Shia worshippers in Kohat, K-P This doesn't even count 10-12 Shia Muslims executed daily in Karachi, Pakistan. P.S. I posted it in Imam Mahdi forum because Shi Chat doesn't has a special place to cover Pakistan Shia Violence. SC does has separate threads for Shia Violence in Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Syria etc. Source: http://tribune.com.pk/story/607981/and-then-they-were-gone/
  12. Salam, I urge you to read this news: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/09/22/open-season-on-christians/ See how the writer shows three different countries having major violence on Christians. Notice how powerful this message becomes. Now take us lousy Shias. Unlike our Christian brethren (who face this violence every once in a while), we SHIA Muslims face this violence in Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Syria, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Malaysia daily. Literally daily.... Daily, every day, yes all 365 days of the year, there are more than 100 SHIA Muslims are killed, maimed, or injured at the hands of Wahabi-Saudi terrorists the world over. .... And you dont see one single concentrated news showing this. Not one single news gets this kind of message out. Not one. Why?????? Side note: Shia Muslims and Christians; living in Sunni Muslim dominated countries have a great chance to actively unite against the Sunni-Wahabi-Saudi alliance of beastly terrorists. This has already happened in Lebanon and is happening in Syria. We need to replicate the Shia Muslim and Christian alliance model in Pakistan, Egypt, Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey and in other Sunni countries. Just hope that Christain Right wing don't use these events to break the Shia Muslims and Christians alliance.
  13. Salam Alaykum, I am writing in this forum for the first time as I would like to know your views on a matter that really makes me sad. As we all know, the Medias has always portrayed our peaceful religion as a barbaric and violent religion despite our efforts to convince our Non-Muslims friends that it is not, they don’t believe us and they actually quote verse from the Quran. Just a couple of weeks ago, a British friend of mine who was very much interested in understanding Islam and the teaching of the Quran started to show strong animosity against Muslims. I came to know that she had read some verses of the Quran that apparently called for violence against non-Muslims, wife beating, etc. I feel that we haven’t done our best to show the pure Islam to the world and we really need to have online resources designed specifically for non-Muslims so they can understand better the controversial verses of the Quran from an unbiased source. Here is the link that was visited by my Non-Muslim friend, and this website has been widely spread among the British especially after to Woolwich killing: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ I really think that we need to take this problem seriously before life become too difficult for Muslims like in France. Wassalamun Alaykum
  14. Al Azhar Scholar: "Shia Killing in Egypt Is Political Crime" Given the Egyptian’s government’s nonchalance and lack of concern about providing security, the Shia killing in the country is a political crime. (Ahlul Bayt News Agency) - Mustafa Al-Sawaheli, Arabic language and literature professor at Al-Azhar University, made the remark in an interview with IQNA, adding that all Egyptian citizens are facing lack of security due to government’s failure to ensure security. He underlined the sanctity of all humans’ blood no matter what their faith or religion is, saying that based on Islamic teachings, even the life of non-Muslims such as Christians, Jews and Buddhists who live in the Muslim world must be respected. Al-Sawaheli quoted a Hadith by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as saying that anyone who unjustly kills someone that is in Islam’s protection, will never smell the scent of Heaven. “Therefore, violating the rights of our religious brothers who have differences of opinion with us in religious matters is impermissible, let alone slaying them.” He stressed that those killing Shia citizens in Egypt have waged war against Islamic values. “The perpetrators of this crime must realize that even if someone or a group does something differing from our values and belief, it is no justification for shedding their blood.” The Al-Azhar scholar pointed to the respect for the rights of Sunni Muslims in Iran, saying that in Iran no one has the right to violate the rights of the Sunni minority and that such attitude must be seen about Shia minorities in other countries, too. He further said there is a sinister motivation behind tragedies like the Shia killing and that is fomenting discord and spreading sedition among different Islamic schools. “Such actions are not in the interest of the Muslim Ummah and those who commit them are enemies of Islam.” Al-Sawaheli stated that all Islamic centers including Al-Azhar as well as political factions in Egypt have condemned the crime and strongly oppose such actions. On Sunday, June 23, extremist Takfiri mobs attacked a house in a village in Giza province of Egypt and killed four Shia Muslims in the house including Allameh Sheikh Hassan Shehata, spiritual leader of Shia Muslims in the country. End item/ 149 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am posting this because finally a reputable Sunni Theological Seminary has raised a voice against the Takfiri's behaviour & crimes against their fellow Muslims!!!
  15. About the guest speakers Imam Shehryar Shaikh: Sheharyar Shaikh is the former President of North American Muslim Foundation. He is currently the Imam of Masjid Qurtabah. He specializes in Quranic exegesis with contemporary Islamic thought and modernity. Khalil Jaffer: Brother Khalil Jaffer is commonly referred to as an inspiring speaker. Born in Mombasa, Kenya, he also holds a degree in computer science, and has worked in various related fields such as a software developer. His powerful and adept public speaking developed during the period after his studies, where he lectured at his local college. After seven years in Nairobi he relocated to Dubai for a further five years, before finally moving to Toronto. “For sponsorship information and packages please contact fundraiser@helpforhope.ca.” Purchase tickets here: http://helpforhope.ca/givehope
  16. I would like to hear from fellow Shia's who they believe is responsible for the terror attacks on September 11, 2001.
  17. Document - Indonesia: Authorities cut off food and water to Shi’as http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ASA21/043/2012/en/5aee49b5-074b-4ec8-96e2-8670a8bccb3e/asa210432012en.html ASA 21/043/2012 Issue Date: 26 November 2012 URGENT ACTION AUTHORITIES CUT OFF FOOD AND WATER TO SHI’AS Indonesian authorities cut off food and water supplies to displaced Shi’a community in East Java. At least 190 displaced Shi’a followers in East Java, including 69 women and 61 children, are at risk after local government authorities halted supplies of food and water to the community, citing a lack of funds. The Shi’a community, from Karang Gayam village in the Sampang district on Madura island, were displaced in August 2012 when an anti-Shi’a mob of around 500 people attacked the community with sharp weapons and stones. One person was killed and dozens were injured. The mob also set fire to thirty-five houses belonging to the Shi’a community. Four people have since been charged for the attack. Following the attack, the community was moved to temporary shelter at a sports complex in Sampang - with minimal facilities - where they have been living for the last three months. No medicine or facilities specifically for children or women have been provided. On 18 November, the local authorities cut off water supply to the complex and on 22 November they halted food supplies. The displaced community have been forced to use their limited funds to purchase food and water. According to credible sources, some of the Shi’a followers at the complex have been intimidated and harassed by local government officials who have urged them to convert to Sunni Islam if they want to return to their homes. Local and national authorities continue to put pressure on the community to relocate but they have rejected this option, preferring to return to their homes and livelihoods under conditions of safety. A group of volunteers have been assisting them with their daily needs and providing counselling, particularly to women and children. Please write immediately in English, Indonesian or your own language calling on authorities in Indonesia  To ensure the displaced Shi’a community has immediate access to essential services such as food and clean drinking water in their shelter;  To guarantee the safe, voluntary and dignified return of the Shi’a community to their homes, according to their wishes, and to provide assistance so as to enable them to rebuild the homes that were damaged or destroyed;  To investigate reports that the local government authorities in Sampang District have been involved in the intimidation of Shi’a followers to renounce their faith;  To ensure that all those involved in the attack against the Shi’a community are speedily brought to justice in proceedings which meet international standards of fairness and without the imposition of the death penalty and that victims are provided reparations. PLEASE SEND APPEALS BEFORE 7 JANUARY 2013 TO: Sampang District Head (Bupati) Noer Tjahja Jl. Jamaluddin No.1A, Sampang, Madura, East Java, Indonesia 69241 Fax: + 62 323 321017 Salutation: Dear Noer Tjahja Minister of Justice and Human Rights Amir Syamsuddin Jl. H.R. Rasuna Said Kav No. 4-5 Kuningan, Jakarta Selatan 12950, Indonesia Fax: +62 21 525 3095 Salutation: Dear Minister And copies to: Mr. Otto Nur Abdullah Chairperson National Human Rights Commission (Komnas HAM) Jl Latuharhary, No.4 Menteng Jakarta Pusat 10310, Indonesia Fax: +62 21 39 25 227 Also send copies to diplomatic representatives accredited to your country Please check with your section office if sending appeals after the above date. URGENT ACTION AUTHORITIES CUT OFF FOOD AND WATER TO SHI’AS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION There have been increasing levels of harassment, intimidation and attacks against religious minority groups in Indonesia including Shi’a, Ahmadiyya and Christian communities. These include attacks and burning of homes and places of worship, at times leading to the displacement of these groups. Those who commit acts of violence against religious minorities are rarely punished. Amnesty International is particularly concerned that government authorities – as well as the police – are failing to protect these communities and, in some cases, actively taking part in their persecution. These include attempts by government officials to force religious minorities, such as Ahmadiyya and Shi’a followers, to denounce their beliefs. The Shi’a community on Madura island has been intimidated and attacked before. On 29 December 2011, a mob set fire to a place of worship, a boarding school and to various homes in the vicinity. Police did not take adequate measures to protect the community and instead of intervening to stop the attack, some recorded it on their phones. Only one person was eventually charged and sentenced to three months’ imprisonment for the attack. In July 2012 Tajul Muluk, a religious leader from the East Java Shi’a community, was arrested and sentenced to two years’ imprisonment for blasphemy under Article 156(a) of the Indonesian Criminal Code by the Sampang District Court. His arrest followed reports that on 1 January 2012, a religious decree (fatwa) was issued by the Sampang branch of the Indonesia Ulema Council (MUI) related to what was described as Tajul Muluk’s “deviant teachings”. The East Java High Court increased his sentence to four years in September 2012 upon appeal. Amnesty International considers him to be a prisoner of conscience and calls for his immediate and unconditional release. The right to freedom of religion is guaranteed in the Indonesian Constitution. Moreover, Article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR), to which Indonesia is a state party, states that “this right shall include freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice” and that “no one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice”. Name: At least 190 people from the Shi’a community Gender m/f: both Further information on UA: 336/12 Index: ASA 21/043/2012 Issue Date: 26 November 2012
  18. (salam) Bohat acha article hai. http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2012/08/120826_baat_se_baat_wusat_tk.shtml
  19. The Buddha said…”When I recall the past, I remember that I was the king of a great state…My name was Senyo, and I loved and venerated the Mahayana sutras…When I heard the Brahmins slandering the vaipulya sutras, I put them to death on the spot. Good men, as a result of that action, I never thereafter fell into hell. O good man! When we accept and defend the Mahayana sutras, we possess innumerable virtues.” [3] More: http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/07/warrior-monks-the-untold-story-of-buddhist-violence-i/
  20. I came across an old article by Seymour Hersh today. I especially liked this video. Hersh in 2007 claimed that the US was working with the Saudis to create a terror cell to fight Hezbollah. Hersh implicated Prince Bandar, the newly elected Saudi intelligence chief as the prime culprit towards creating this terror cell. He alledged that the purpose of Fatah Islam was to eventually fight Hezbollah. Well for those who don't know, Lebanon's top Sunni terrorist and Fatah al Islam member was killed in Syria several months back: http://world.time.com/2012/04/23/in-syria-lebanons-most-wanted-sunni-terrorist-blows-himself-up/ Fatah al Islam and the Takfiris from other countries are going there in droves -- with full US + Saudi support. The US plan is to take out Assad, take out Hezbollah and ultimately bomb Iran. Even though this is an old video, I felt all of his points are becoming reality. I strongly suggest you take 5 minutes and watch it:
  21. Has anybody read the book "Memoirs Of Mr. Hempher, The British Spy To The Middle East". It's the story of a British spy of how he managed to have Abdul Wahab, the founder of Wahabi Salafi cult to destroy Islam and corrupt Muslims of Middle East and the rest of the world. The najis seed that Hempher planted, is now grown into this thorney stinky wild bush, maiming and destroying Muslims with thousands of wounds, emotional, physical, and cultural. Among their many crimes, they have destroyed almost all of the relics that belonged to the prophet of Islam, destroyed the houses where prophet, his family, and his friends used to reside. It's an interesting story of deceit, espionage, Sunni gullibility, how Sunnis could be misled into the kufr of wahabism in the absence of a system of marjaiat, how Shias were never deceived thanks to their system of leadership of ulema, and so on. Some eye opening observations and eiman shaking book for Sunnis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_Of_Mr._Hempher,_The_British_Spy_To_The_Middle_East
  22. Islamophobic nutcases argue that 'Islamic terrorism' is the single biggest threat to Western countries. Yet according to Europol data, Islamist terrorist attacks accounted for only 0.4% of the attacks in Europe between 2006 and 2008. Most terrorist attacks were carried out by separatist and Left-Wing groups. For example, this is the table of attacks for 2008: More here: http://www.loonwatch...rism-in-europe/ What's more, according to data from the FBI's official website, Islamist terrorist attacks accounted for only 6% of attacks in the US between 1980 and 2005, although the percentage of victims was greater because of 9/11. Jewish extremists accounted for 7% of terrorist attacks! More here: http://www.loonwatch...ts-are-muslims/ LoonWatch is an awesome site - I recommend it
  23. Greater Israel—or Peace? http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/greater-israel-or-peace/ Share| Pathbreaking scholars Norman Finkelstein and John Mearsheimer speak out about the precarious future of the Jewish state. Shortly before Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas arrived in New York to seek United Nations recognition of a Palestinian state, TAC’s Scott McConnell sat down with Norman Finkelstein and John Mearsheimer to discuss the deeper currents shaping the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Since then, President Obama has given a speech shocking in its deference to Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel’s right-wing coalition, and there is no immediate prospect for renewed Israeli-Palestinian negotiations—the “peace process” begun with discussions in Oslo, Norway in 1991. Israel has announced fresh plans to move settlers into Palestinian areas of Jerusalem it conquered in 1967. As daunting as the prospects for peace may be, Israel no longer enjoys immunity from criticism within the American media and academy—thanks in large part to the work of scholars like Mearsheimer and Finkelstein, who have forced a debate among foreign-policy thinkers and the American left over the price Americans, Israelis, and Palestinians all pay for Tel Aviv’s policies. One of America’s most important dissident scholars, Norman Finkelstein has written six books touching on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In 2007, after he had been recommended by DePaul University’s political science department and described by the university as an “outstanding teacher,” he was denied tenure thanks to an unprecedented lobbying campaign waged by Alan Dershowitz, who had long sparred with Finkelstein over Israel. Finkelstein is the child of European Jews who survived Auschwitz and Majdanek, which gave added force to his book The Holocaust Industry, critical of ways Israel has exploited the Holocaust for financial and political gain. His most recent work, This Time We Went Too Far, is an analysis of Israel’s 2008-09 war against the Palestinians in Gaza. Professor John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago is one of America’s foremost international relations scholars. He created a storm in 2006 when he and co-author Stephen Walt of Harvard University published the essay “The Israel Lobby,” which was later expanded into a best-selling book. Scott McConnell: Have we come to the end of the Oslo process? Is a two‑state solution still a viable possibility? Norman Finkelstein: The problem is the definition of terms. The Oslo process, contrary to what’s widely understood, was largely a success. It’s true now that it may be at an impasse, but as it was originally conceived, it was largely a success. The Israeli leadership was very clear about what it intended from the Oslo process. Mainly, Rabin said—the former prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin—that if we can get the Palestinians to do the dirty work in the Occupied Territories, there’s going to be less pressure from human rights organizations. They wouldn’t cause as many problems if the Palestinians were doing the policing. And there was a military reason: namely, a large number of Israeli troops was bogged down in the Occupied Territories. That meant time taken away from military training. The quid pro quo was, well, in 1990‑91 the PLO made what seemed to have been a tactical or strategic error by supporting Saddam Hussein, and they lost all of their funding from the Gulf States. And basically the United States and Israel threw them a life preserver, saying, “If you switch sides, you do what we want you to do, we’ll keep you alive.” That was the choice that the Palestinians made, or the Palestinian leadership made. But then a new problem arose, and that’s Hamas began to rise in power. John Mearsheimer: The Israelis—and this was especially true of Rabin when the Oslo peace process got started—had no interest in giving the Palestinians a viable state. What they wanted was to restrict the Palestinians to a handful of Bantustans that were located inside of Greater Israel, and it could be called a Palestinian state. In a very important way, Oslo has been successful in that it has allowed the Israelis, working with the Palestinian Authority, to create a situation where the Palestinians have some autonomy in these Bantustans. McConnell: You say this about Rabin too? He’s considered the most peace-oriented Israeli. Finkelstein: He was the most rigid. Even Rabin’s wife, afterwards, during the Camp David negotiations, said that her husband would never have agreed to the concessions that [Prime Minister Ehud] Barak made. Now remember, Barak barely made any concessions. But she said her husband would have never agreed to that. I think she’s probably right. In Rabin’s last speech to the Knesset before he was assassinated, he said, “I don’t support a Palestinian state.” He said, “Something less than it.” Continues here : http://www.theamericanconservative.com/blog/greater-israel-or-peace/
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