Ali.Isa

Salam Alaikum and Shar Ramazan Karim Mubarak... Excuse me, don't recognize why I haven't seen and replied earlier Mr. Cool! Yes, conceptual metaphors but remember that has to do with our spirit and it leaves its effects on the actual physical body parts (casualty). To gain hikmat the journey starts from سعه صدر or نشرح لک صدرک Don't remember if I have in another post mentioned that aql is an act of heart and this action is part of a bigger picture or better said process of heart. This process have different steps... And intellect has been used as verb of heart in the holy Quran and never as noun! Nafs has a greater reality than spirit. The metaphorical heart has to do with the spirit and not nafs... When we sleep, spirit has a minimum connection with the jism, but nafs insaani is not present there. So spirit is present there fully and the jism is there fully but nafs somewhere else...! Albeit you need to explain it to me more!

Hi, can we come in term that there are 3 main attributes which we can put in a spectrum (1D, 2D or 3D spectrum) and thus all other attributes are in-between these three. Those attributes are حي Hayat (having being); ilm (having knowledge) and ghodrat (being able to, having power). Now when you say connect, do those two attributes do not connect to Hayat?! When we say وجود or وجود مطلق manoeuvre on the attribute of Hayat! Being حي is more essential than knowledge, indeed the core of two main attributes which is knowledge & power... Or the core and barzakh of all attributes... قدرت-حي-علم قدرت-علم-حي علم-قدرت-حي حي-قدرت-علم حي-علم-قدرت علم-حي-قدرت I see you like Philosophy; thus to you I introduce mullasadra.org

Hmm, hi dear guest. Don't know if I got your question right or are you very into ahkam too much :)... There is no difference between kurr or tap water. Blood is the essential impurity which you wash away from your leg etc.. 'cause it's in your body or over your body it does not mean you have to wash few times with a specific quantity of water. Just simply wash so no trace of blood is visible. Or just take a bath who cares!!! Still if something is mind boggling for you feel free to continue advancing your question, am at your service.

Alaikom Salam If you had put this question in the general discussion you would have received an answer sooner. Anyways putting it here means more focus language wise. I don't know what those Arabs that know english think but in a scholarly environment the word spirit is used for ruh and the word soul is used for nafs. Maybe you want more explanation linguistic wise let me know. You too of course can explain more through explaining and expanding the question! I don't know why in the Quran corpus there is 90 entries, I can understand it put still just mentioning because the word nafs in the Holy Quran has been repeated about as 297 times and mostly in the following meanings: 1stly as 'an individual' 2ndly as 'person/self' and 3rdly for 'emphasizing' 4thly other meanings also. And lastly from semantical perspective only about 20 times the word has been used for the spiritual sphere and explaining non-physical aspect of the human being. As you see mostly it's used for three meanings above. The word ruh in the Holy Quran has been repeated/used about 24 times; and only 4 usage of the word refer to the spiritual aspect and non-physical aspect of human being (which is the blowing of spirit into Prophet Adam Peace Upon Him).

Salam Alaikom, yes the words دماغ، مشاعر، ذهن & وهم is not used in the Holy Quran. All mentions in the Holy Quran of صدر، قلب، فؤاد and لب is used for non physical realities. Sure there is connection between qalb which is 'a thing' and intellect, but what kind of connection? The word aql is used as verb all the time in the Holy Quran and not as a noun. تعقل is a process to gain marefat, which happens by a thing. And the heart is not used as a process. All non physical realities or entities are not 'a thing'. This issue needs the process of تفکر that we need to implement to achieve the result. What spiritual aspect that is a non-physical reality of us do tafakkor; we need to figure it out so we can have a successful answer. Losing consciousness and not being able to perform it through the jism; it's two different issues. Why must we think that something leaves or comes inside, why not reflecting that there is inputs and outputs. If we momenin have belief that death is not annihilation but death is travel from this world and that we taste death and becomes more alive not that death taste us. Also sleep brother of death. Now imagine a plant; does it have the same function at day light and during the night. Or input and output differ. Can a flower die, yes it can (how does it die, what does we humans do to make it die), but can a flower sleep?! The roots are always in the dark, so for it, does the light of day or darkness and coldness of night matter. Does it get affected, despite the fact we all see that the roots are not directly in contact with the outer sphere. The atmosphere of branches change but does the atmosphere of roots change!? We can't always go parallel so both side is in equal (=), rather somewhere the knot must happen and this needs to be figured out otherwise we can't say we have belief or aqidah, when we have no clue of the issue of aqd (knot). Resting of body does not mean nafs is out or later in, rather nafs is not resting but active. I see the definition of consciousness as a word and see that it's common sense and proper to use it for the word nafs lawamah(and also see it's definition). Yes the western thinkers may use it in different fields based on their thought patterns. And soul they may use it for روح, but we redefine it for nafs and explain it for them. Albeit proper wording makes think easier, but for me it's okay. Sure, appreciate the issue of the holiness of body mentioned here. Try to avoid exceptions because it's not usable for all conditions and it's not normal circumstances. Are we sure during sleep or death nafs leaves or ruh leaves, maybe it's not leaving but directing it's (1.attention and 2.do's). Sure it can't be the physical heart, because the physical heart does not have eyes, and the non-physical reality connected to the physical heart cannot be in the physical chest. Aql can not be 'a thing' which functions by help of heart. Aql is used as a process of تعقل for marefat, and not as a non-physical thing. Salam Alaikom, who said our spiritual 'heart' has eyes and ears, as much as I know eyes and ears have to do with head not chest. The spiritual side of the physical heart necessarily does not need to be called spiritual heart, and become parallel. Just a thought! I have put here for future reference, specifically the 2nd article to help the discussion on defining nafs. معناشناسی نفس در قرآن کریم با تأکید بر روابط همنشینی و جانشینی تبیین نسبت «نفس واحده» با «آدم» بر اساس تحلیل مفهوم «نفس» در نظام آیات قرآن I think we can focus on the subject of nafs if the discussion requires it.

Salam Alaikom Here this may also be of great help. Children in the Quran & the Sunnah

Salam Alaikom, there has been done research on the issue with title "Semantic study of the Heart in the Quran" about 3 years ago from Quranic perspective in Farsi. http://hadith.net/post/67565/کتاب-معناشناسی-قلب-در-قرآن-منتشر-شد/?n=116 "Your heart is located between your lungs in the middle of your chest, behind and slightly to the left of your breastbone (sternum). A double-layered membrane called the pericardium surrounds your heart like a sac. The outer layer of the pericardium surrounds the roots of your heart's major blood vessels and is attached by ligaments to your spinal column, diaphragm, and other parts of your body" Source: heart The Egyptian women used the شغف and if we study the Egyptian history of that time and the issue of mummy we may get that they knew a kind off 'veil' covers the heart. It's the only place that the word شغف is used and could not be inseparable from their culture. The word qalb in the Holy Quran is used as a Conceptual metaphor which is not meant the qalb which is pumping blood, rather the talk is about the qalb of nafs or meta-body or spirit. Through idrak hissi ادراک حسی from this worldly and visible heart understand it's malakot. What comes in your mind when I say walnut, does it come the meat part which we often see (and it's what's eatable of walnut), so we often refer to it as walnut. Whilst other parts we don't consider as walnut, to be precise walnut meat. Imagine a walnut that has a green husk, than it has a wood like shell and inside the shell the meat or kernel itself. So far three terms used. Is there a fourth 'part'? So we have the walnut itself (maybe we should not count it as a part, cause it's the boss) and two parts outside it for its protection/security and growth. Just want to say the same game is on everywhere, for inspiration. شهود شاهد شهادت the shohod, if really happens your shahed and can give shahadat. But shohod must mean you understand what you saw not merely watching and delivering the knowledge to others without understanding. So much to see in this world and so many signs of Allah, but do we see the oneness (signature of rab) of Rab in them (understand the knowledge that show us the مبدأ). Or still a child from nafs perspective just only collection of knowledge. Probably many times we listen or see things or read but don't understand and than we ask someone who does. So merely when I can read, it does not mean I understand what I read. This world is where shohod happens not in aalam ghayb; ghayb is ghayb (malakot). So seeing and understanding what we see is two different states. We can not be called shahed if we don't understand the shohod. Note; And in usul din it's said having belief in tawhid which is oneness of Rab. So believe in Allah should be different than having belief in His Oneness. from minute 4: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FOhH8kme8zg Walnut https://ar.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/تامور The 1st layer and 2nd layer of what, sure of heart. Than maybe we should not consider the heart itself as a layer, rather a thing which has two layers. We all know the physical heart does not soft or get cruel, but the reality of the heart and it's malakot is different. The image can probably help in moving easier. I listen some minutes but not all episodes. If brothers find some extraordinary in the series let me know. I don't like the translation, I mean if your heart free from anxiety isn't it something good! Anyways it means based on Ayatollah Makarem translation, that the heart was only in remembrance of her child and فارغا from everything else، like this she would reveal her secret but Allah helped her to move forward and not be madly worried about the child and lose her behaviour and speech ability to give excuse to the enemy to watch her more closely.

Salam Alaikom, excuse all for delay. Through terminology we try to explain things in a more precise way and a shortcut for understanding. In previous posts on this matter I have written, and this added over those writings. The spirit and jism could be called عَرَض respective to each other. But respective to nafs(any nafs be it of bacteria, plants, animals) called طول. And the different stage of nafs(nafs insani we mean), like nafs ammarah (ego; a good translation for nafs ammarah), lawamah and mutmainah can be called respective to each other عمق. So with other words نظام عرضی، نظام طولی and نظام عمقی. Am writing these so we can try to shape limits and boundaries... Please pay attention, both molk and malakot is outer for us but for each other no. Salam, I have to firstly; thank you for putting so much effort and contributing, and brainstorming... Necessarily the ego(nafs ammarah) does not need to be a thing to than be removed, from nafs, rather it could be a state of nafs, it's here strive/jihad comes in picture, to try our best and grow right and properly, even if the environment is suitable for the nafs to stay in nafs ammarah and grow like cancer without proper planning. Albeit the ammarah state is both ammarah be hosn and ammarah be سوء. So with muraqiba and muhasibeh, ammarah be hosn can be guided and not just doing good without aim and planning. Salam, reality is واقعیت and truth is حقیقت. What are their respective relation to each other? ... "Self non recognition means failure to know your true nature to be full, complete. This veil of ignorance conceal the divine reality within you so it must be removed." In my opinion instead of using true nature, it's better to use true creation, our true creation; the true creation of human! "If you truly discovered yourself to be a conscious being, utterly independent of your body that will change the way you perceive this body" When you say inner nature... inner nature respective to what, respective to what it's inner; if it's respective to jism, than jism is our true outer nature(creation). Nafs is in need of body بدن always even in paradise( attention I did not say nafs is in need of jism, the corpse); exactly the one بدن we have now(now I don't care that it's maadah ماده get changed and cells die and so on and so forth). You travel to barzakh at the time of death, not getting annihilation and removed from existence, to not need the body(respective your body does not get annihilated). If ruh was supposed to be without a body, at first it was it, why did Allah reassigned it to jism. Lastly we have ضد like knowledge and ignorance and we have زوج like 'example حُب and لبّ'... Pay attention both examples are from malakot and not molk. Please explain more. What do you mean with inner self, do you mean soul? Or inner self is different than soul for you? There is difference between jism and badan, does the nafs disconnect itself from jism or badan!? Badan has life whilst jism necessarily does not need to have life; that said nafs is a bridge which ruh can give life to jism. Pay attention the name of ruh is different like ruh aql or ruh Iman whilst we know in many narrations aql and Iman is described as Noor. So specifically when we talk about human who possess Noor in grades and life in grades, we use the nafs, to combine these two and other words could be the I or personality for us to use. We call a jism; a badan because of life ruh has given it. And we call the spirit; Noor because of awareness jism has given it (of ماده). So a healthy nafs has both life and awareness(or moral virtues) through both jism and ruh, and it's what matters for it. If the ruh and jism for sometime have weak connection it's because of the missing bridge. And whilst the nafs do not perform its duty as bridge and closed input and output, it does not mean it loses the power of life(قدرت) and awareness of knowledge it has previously got. Hint: If sleep is the brother of death, does it mean sleep is a temporary journey and not permanent. By pondering on this مثال things can get clear... 2ndly when we eat the benefit goes to jism or body! Does eating give life and keep alive the body?! The elements of free will is, when in barzakh two different fruit is brought to you, first you try to research/survey both by asking the fruits characteristics, 2ndly you choose/select(انتخاب) one of them, and than 3rdly you implement will power and iradah(قدرت و اراده) to perform action that said consume the one fruit you selected. In this world this is called اختیار to gain/for کرامت اکتسابی. But we have ikhtiyar in paradise too because of the three elements of ikhtiyar above mentioned. The topic of ikhtiyar and qalb should not be discussed here. Of course the qalb topic is near this topic. And the issue of ikhtiyar is much more precise and difficult than the issue of qalb.

Basically the power or tools you have to reach the truth and elevate yourself as human being. I could of course for example only say Hess, but Hess is a tool and power given from Allah for us to explore the visible. The visible world we are in; is the world of شهود. Will explain later. But unfortunately people are after seeing barzakh and call that شهود?! In old times, please pay attention; the boundaries of these three 'faculties' where not clear and well known. They mixed inspiration with what the physically saw and explored and like this the aql could not properly and easily make intellectual argumentation or bring forth logical reasoning for the humans findings.

Salam Alaikom, what you mean -rest of three reside "with"-. I try to explain myself and try to turn thought or understanding into words. Don't know if it's fathomable to others or not or how much success I have when doing this convert process. At start here my first posts may not be good but Insha Allah I have warmth up for more and better writing. I recommend to challenge our selves and describe with more words, this way the mind finds its way... The issue is that the cannot necessarily be inside, because the relation of jism and ruh is not ruh- a thing - being inside a vessel called jism (if this is the case than it should be the opposite!?). Hokamah call the relation between them with terminological word (تَعلُّق تدبیری). With other words the relation of nafs... We have to think example sun rays come inside the tree and gets collected which we can later do fire, but this does not mean sun is inside the tree! What kind of inside, there is different kinds of 'inside', and for this point we need to look the Sahih narrations. Ruh from aalam amr and jism from aalam khalq is not possible to be together at all and it's here the issue of nafs and qalb comes in. When ruh is by itself in aalam amr we can call it ruh and when jism is by itself in aalam khalq we can call it jism generally but if it's a human shape matter, we call it human corpse. But when nafs is created by these two, we necessarily don't call them by the same name when they where alone. That consciousness; is what jism gives, how jism affects, because the relationship is two ways. Ruh gets knowledge and understanding of aalam khalq which it had not before and inturn gives life to jism. Badan which is alive should be used in relation to nafs, as such the light which is in turn knowledge and so on... Spirit gets knowledge through the eyes and the movement of eyes is because of spirit. But the eye have movement not understanding of what it's focused on, rather that focus nafs see's and understands. Maybe we have narrations stating we have heart in the nafs, or the so called inner self of nafs (heart) which was mentioned here?! Albeit the issue of qalb can be relevant to this topic. With subtle you mean here density which could be improper!? The issue of نور light is also mentioned here. For light maybe proper to use the terminology called 'صورت'. Just saying so have it in our minds. Am trying to go from قوه خیال into قوه عقل by introducing terminology... A question: do the angels in aalam amr or the spiritual world have body according to their needs in there? Could that body be of light and that light having ruh, cause things cannot exist without ruh!? Ego would be good to use for nafs ammarah a state of nafs. The self or soul could be general and it could mean nafs nabati, nafs heywani, nafs insani... Tawhid means oneness, one signature in all ayats of Allah. Than there is duality. Than there is multiplicity (three or more we call multi and not trinity.) We don't believe in multi and duality. We only see oneness, which is sign of one rab. Oneness is true and duality in reality non-existent. Existence of two creation does not mean duality exist rather in both of those two creation of Allah and all ayats we see only oneness which is the signature and action of Allah. Why nafs duality lvl? Try to explain more what was in the mind. Why from duality to tawhid, why not from multi to tawhid! I thing this notion of uncreated is in Buddhism if am not wrong! Sure Consider to tie one free shoe lace of one shoe, not a pair. The lace is one than right and left like DNA inside the shoe (not free anymore), now suddenly its two, now you tie the two or do their aqd. It's this tie or aqd we are trying to figure out. Oh wait when you start the tie you start from the left or right because all details matters. This duality is not because of shoe lace, rather it's because of shoe. When two creation cooperate with each other such limitations exist, and of course things need each other, only Allah is free from need. This is a simple مثال but one can give more complex examples like tree. Or the example of the laptop above... Consciousness of what, if the light of ruh shines on nafs is weird because the nafs is a median between the two which the light and worldly body interact with each other. The source of body is ماده and the source of light is spirit. They can't have direct contact without a median which could be called the soul or more in detail qalb. Qalb is the centre. Which input and output goes through and affects the growth of nafs. What has yaqeen to do with this discussion. I think it's not necessary. It's why I wrote this below so I don't forget, to use ego as nafs ammarah which is for human nafs and does not have any usage for animal nafs. And consciousness would at best be a translation of nafs lawamah. So a state of nafs insani and not the nafs insani itself. Do you thing this insideness, how is it practiced; is it like a driver goes inside car (ظرف و مظروف) at day time than at night leaves it for وطن. Can we ponder and put more conditions so we can have a better picture. BEING: isn't this for, let's check hadith! what to name it... روح←نفس→جسم How can we explain it based on tawhid thought and mindset so no three or duality is visible... Again, nafs does not need to be only consciousness or mindset, rather it's what it gets and absorbs, consumes from either jism or ruh. Ruh has a reality and jism another reality, what do they exchange that the nafs benefits of it and grow accordingly. Because there is no guarantee that we will have ruh Iman and this human bodily form in judgement day. GROWTH: isn't this for mother's womb... نفس انسانی ↓↑ نفس حیوانی ↓↑ نفس نباتی Here we mean not any nafs but nafs insani. Of course in nafs insani other nufus and characteristics exists, our nafs grows into being nafs insani. So when we talk about them while talking about human being, because it's dependent on human nafs and not independent. So no independent talk of nafs Hawani. PERFECTION: isn't it for this world! نفس اماره← نفس لوامه← نفس مطمئنه Why not think as big as possible, there is seed, there is tree, and there is fruit, and mostly inside fruit there is again seed. What kind of صعود و نزول is this... Some may think only like this, there is the roots and there is the branches and the thing in-between connecting them or the barzakhi. This barzakh was easy to figure out and maybe even to explain, but the barzakh of fruit or the alone seed may not be easy to figure out.

Alaikom s-Salam was Rahmatullah It's not high ranked & chosen angels by Allah and it's not ruh Al Qudus. Ruh in this verse; have a higher reality or most elevated ruh than all spirits even ruh Al Qudus. This ruh has to do with the position of ahl l-Bait Peace upon Them and descending at the night of Qadr for them. It's also specifically the source of knowledge for Ahl l-Bait Peace upon Them. The notes are for if brothers want to check the ahadith mentioned there or if some dear siblings want to translate important parts of it for others to benefit. Notes: http://hadith.net/post/59492/چیستی-و-مختصات-روح-امری-یا-ملکوتی-در-روایات-اهل-بیت/ https://qd.razavi.ac.ir/article_329.html

Alaikom l-Salam Sure but what has the quote to do with qalb! In this hadith which is Sahih; put here by dear SoRoUsH the name of a phase/kind of ruh is ruh madraj and its function is hayat. This hadith is mentioned 2 more times in our ahadith sources with some differences, as mentioning ruh Al hayat both time which is not correct, because ruh Al hayat in this context becomes ruh Al ruh which is unnecessary to mention. رُوحَ الْحَيَاةِ فَبِهِ دَبَّ وَ دَرَجَ So the name is ruh madraj with characteristics such as hayat, daraj... I saw siblings using alot here the title of ruh Al hayat. Anyways even ahadith Sahih in Arabic needs فقه الحدیث specifically and فقه اللغه generally. Lastly I would love to participate in the thread of qalb and fuad that is much more advance than this thread and difficult, it's like talking about inside characteristics of Serat mustaqim that has as subject to do with human being. But here we have to try to describe the specific issue brought forth by the first post and generalize it in a way so we understand and unify this two opinions and get to know in this vital issue Serat Al mustaqim itself to begin with; 1. Usually philosophers see's and describe nafs and spirit as one when explaining and 2. Theologians which say it's two, and describe them in another way. Salam, thanks for going after them, but usually I use the website; they have also android app for it with all Shia hadith books. And am also aware of the issue of asnad of Bihar l-Anwar. But weak sanad does not mean inside the wordings have also problem because that is worked on, in fiqh l-hadith. I have not put any specific views, just giving nazm, is saying shahwat is not only lust, and that sexual pleasure, something that is out of Sahih ahadith. Or that people think in paradise there is huris just because of Sahih hadith do they not ponder تدبر. When in fact huris could mean, maybe something else and not women!? The issue of accurate transmission can be used against ahadith with Sahih sanad, the issue is there is nothing wrong to see these ahadith and ponder over them but in 2nd view. Firstly we have to view and find the Sahih ahadith on the matter 2nd nothing wrong to read weak ahadith and get inspired and use usul fiqh and hikmat and logic and bring for the Qur'an to see if it's content is right and good. I rely on Wahy, than proven history of Ahl l-Bait Peace upon Them; doings sayings &approvals(naql) and aql. Alas brother I would love that there was a culture and people mentioning in books or Islamic articles in hawza like Ayatollah Khorasani only Sahih and mutawatir ahadith with sanad and maneuver a little over sanad then use it's content to strengthen or prove views. Or at least mention if it's Sahih or anything else...

Salam Alaikom, the example or metaphor you give is not pure imagination, because we all know cars are not made of cells, and that even complex. In this example قوه حس is not used properly so you can, advance it into قوه خیال and work on it there. See what I wrote to Shahrukh K. But it's very nice, and enjoyed reading it and happy, because your mind will get trained and advance more than this.

Salam Alaikom, yes it's mentioned but with different name and title which is wrong, that said the last one: فِيهِمْ رُوحَ اَلْمَدْرَجِ Salam Alaikom, very interesting, based on what mindset are you saying ruh is uncreated please explain? Just because it cannot be destroyed your saying it's not created. Do you mean when we die than corpse destroyed but spirit no, in this context you mean. Did I get you right! Very nice example, and great usage of the power of imagination. But it could BE more presice. You broke the example when mentioning ruh as user. From example which is made by the power of imagination for us to understand things you came into the real world. So you did not complete the مثال. You combined قوه حس and قوه خیال improperly thus misusing قوه عاقله which makes... Like body is hardware with keyboard and mouse of course. Nafs is middleWARE and spirit OS. All is a one package, that said you in mirror. And when you look yourself in mirror\ex.phone, whatever you do you see. There is the mirror and there is you, both outside and in the mirror, it's here which gets complicated, because of precision and the issues of time and space and this and that... Tawhid and rules of tawhid governs also on human inventions.

Salam Alaikom, sure but here we must know فقه لغة and فقه حدیث. Our ulema who knows says for example in the Holy Quran qalb has been used for mind also. I like the way you approach ahadith, remembers me of Ayatollah Khorasani-May Allah prolong His blessed life -, all ahadith in his works and speeches are foolproof and Sahih s-Sanad. But we need to learn also the science of Arabic words, it's lacking in this topic greatly between us. And thus unnecessary talks... It's very nice if one can make teams in shiachat and together take different rules to start and finish a topic for the benefit of learning and advancing in educating our selves and others. Of course at the same time discussing. It has been in my mind to properly cover a topic we need to start topics team wise, one controls that all ahadith is Sahih, and finds hadith for the discussion, another one another role...