Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله


Veteran Member
  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Ethics

  1. Thought so. I am right. This is proof in itself. Your ideology and beliefs are beyond inconsistent and shaky. If you whimsically accept and reject whatever you like because you have doubt about it, your whole religion is just a joke. Instead of telling others what you think is right or wrong work on the basis of your understandings, first understand if you even follow what you call Islam or if you are a follower of the 12 Imams and Ahlulbayt. You do realize Ziyarat are literally from the words and commands of our Imams right? It is how we are suppose to address them. Besides you have yet to prove how any of these dua go against the quran or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Your only argument is "oh because there is no literal evidence then you cannot say it." Such an argument is proven false so easily. This whole thread is filled with hadith, quran, and maraja rulings and you have yet to prove any of it wrong. I think you are stretching too far and being very very ignorant. If people do such things as that or using the hand symbol that has quranic verses on it. They are not worshiping it and I know you know this. You are just saying lies now. I have never seen someone putting apples in a cradle so Ali Asghar provides for them babies and if they do which there is no ruling against that. It is obviously for the sake of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to answer their prayers by the grace of Ali Asghar just like people slaughter sheep on special occasions. I will keep saying it again and again and again. In Shia Islam, we believe that it is ONLY by the will of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). If you believe that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given the ability to our prophets or imams to be able to accept your calls for help then it is okay to do. Many people during the prophets times went to the prophet directly for help such as asking to be cured. Did the prophet reject them? No. Did the prophet say astagfirullah go call on Allah not me? No. When Prophet Yousuf used his scarf to cure his fathers blindness was that shirk or bidah? No. Why then? BECAUSE ALLAH (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) WILL IS BEHIND IT. Otherwise Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would have never used or given such examples. Last final prayer and I will never respond again.
  2. It does not matter what hadith or quranic verse you bring, they just ignore it.
  3. ?????????????? Ziyarat al-Jamiah by the 10th Imam وَمُقَدِّمُكُمْ أَمَامَ طَلِبَتِي I provide you as my means for seeking fulfillment of my desires, وَحَوَائِجِي وَإِرَادَتِي needs, and wishes, فِي كُلِّ أَحْوَالِي وَأُمُورِي in all of my manners and affairs, مُؤْمِنٌ بِسِرِّكُمْ وَعَلاَنِيَتِكُمْ I believe in your invisibility, visibility, وَشَاهِدِكُمْ وَغَائِبِكُمْ presence, absence You do not make any sense. If the point is you cannot do something that the Imams or Prophets never told us to do, THEN DONT DO ANYTHING THEY NEVER DID INCLUDING USING A PHONE. You cannot pick and choose that is faulty in your logic. If you claim this only applies to duas and supplications then you are wrong because like I told you before the literal definition of supplication has no explicit method or verses. Did every prophet and imam use 1 dua? Was each dua they made the same? in the same location? In the same stance? in the same phrases? in the same language? Heck there was no daily prayers even until Prophet Muhammad. So Obviously not. You are also being quite ignorant and foolish no one asks from objects.
  4. Do not be deceived my brothers and sisters. Their ideology similar to wahabi and salafis is very inconsistent and absurd. The religion of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is tied down to every fiber of your existence. As muslims we believe everything we do is for the will of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) all the way down to the blinking of our eyes. If you do not believe in this, then the tawheed you believe in is shaky. Therefore, why do these people only apply this incoherent belief at tawassul or "Ya Ali help me" ? When every single thought and action is for the will of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and that in itself is not exclusive to our prophets and imams, then you realize their logic is faulty. For they must stop doing everything and anything the prophet did not do. These types of Shia should throw away all the calls of ziaraat where we directly call upon, seek help and blessings, and talk with our prophets and imams. They themselves just like the wahabi and salafi do not uphold what they believe, but they will try and accuse you of shirk or remove the barakah of using the utmost wasilah that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself has commanded in the holy quran. O you who believe! Be careful of your duty to Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful (5:35)
  5. Salam brother I think you may have understood the meaning of this statement. This is in reference to Ghulu and in this statement it is saying that if you believe human beings specifically prophets and imams do not die, which obviously everything that is created comes to an end and for humans that is death. Of course our prophets and imams are alive, yes they died in this world, but their souls are not like that of normal humans which pass to barzakh awaiting judgement day, nay Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) keeps them alive as He says in the quran. Belief in death is critical in Tawheed and the purpose of God and existence. For example you have people that believe in reincarnation and this would fall under this rule.
  6. I edited my post but it made another post. Please delete this.
  7. Ziyarat al-Jamiah which is the most authentic and comprehensive Ziyarat that we have, was taught to us by the 10th Imam, 'Ali ibn Muhammad al-Naqi (A) in response to a question that someone has posed to him. This Imam (A) was asked "How should the followers address you or perform your Ziyarat?" In response, this comprehensive prayer was taught to the followers. مُسْتَجِيرٌ بِكُمْ mustajirun bikum I take shelter in you, زَائِرٌ لَكُمْ za'irun lakum I make visits to you لاَئِذٌ عَائِذٌ بِقُبُورِكُمْ la'idhun `a'idhun biquburikum I resort to and seek protection in your graves, مُسْتَشْفِعٌ إِلَىٰ ٱللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ بِكُمْ mustashfi`un ila allahi `azza wa jalla bikum I seek your intercession for me with Allah the Almighty and All-majestic, وَمُتَقَرِّبٌ بِكُمْ إِلَيْهِ wa mutaqarribun bikum ilayhi I seek nearness to Him in your names, وَمُقَدِّمُكُمْ أَمَامَ طَلِبَتِي wa muqaddimukum amama talibati I provide you as my means for seeking fulfillment of my desires, وَحَوَائِجِي وَإِرَادَتِي wa hawa'iji wa iradati needs, and wishes, فِي كُلِّ أَحْوَالِي وَأُمُورِي fi kulli ahwali wa umuri in all of my manners and affairs, مُؤْمِنٌ بِسِرِّكُمْ وَعَلاَنِيَتِكُمْ mu'minun bisirrikum wa `alaniyatikum I believe in your invisibility, visibility, وَشَاهِدِكُمْ وَغَائِبِكُمْ wa shahidikum wa gha'ibikum presence, absence, وَأَوَّلِكُمْ وَآخِرِكُمْ wa awwalikum wa akhirikum first, and last of you; وَمُفَوِّضٌ فِي ذٰلِكَ كُلِّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ wa mufawwidun fi dhalika kullihi ilaykum and I confide all that to you وَمُسَلِّمٌ فِيهِ مَعَكُمْ wa musallimun fihi ma`akum and submit to all of it with you. وَقَلْبِي لَكُمْ مُسَلِّمٌ wa qalbi lakum musallimun My heart is subservient to you, Astagfirulllah what is this innovation the Imam is making us do?! Are we praying to him? Worshiping him? He is dead no? Why would the Imam tell us to call on him when he is dead?! Does he not know?
  8. “...Had they, when they had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful.” (4: 64). Wait what? Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is telling people to seek forgiveness from the prophet even though they wronged themselves. Does God not know His own religion? Why isnt God telling them to just ask God directly? ? What is this innovation?! Why would Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) do such a thing?! Why would Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) set the condition of seeking forgiveness of their sins through the prophet. What is this innovation astagfirullah.
  9. It is not an invention. Asking for help is not a new invention. It is simply asking help from the ones who are most closest to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). The purpose is simple as Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) says, use His representatives to get closer to Him. The aimmah never told you to speak english why are you speaking english? The aimmah never told you that you can dua in english, so why do you dua in english? The aimmah never told you you could use a pc so why are you using a pc? The aimmah never said you could use a cellphone so why are you using a cellphone? Why invent this behavior? What is the purpose, what can you confidently assert it is adding, again, considering that there’s not really any good indication the aimmah ever told anyone to do it this way?
  10. This idea that there is no evidence of something therefore it is not allowed is ABSOLUTELY irrational for many things are not in Shia Islam nor have the imams or prophets done it, in todays time and we still do it. You wanna go down that slippery slope you better be consistent. I have already proved many many points of evidence through quran hadith logic and maraja and people do not even respond to that so you telling me im talking past points is blatantly ignorant but then again you are biased so it makes sense. Your side has no basis to stand on, full of faulty logic and false accusations.
  11. Question: Is it right to say ya Ali madad? Answer: There is no objection in it. https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01253/
  12. This conversation is not going anywhere. You guys are either ignoring my points, deflecting, or just using fallacies. Clearly some of you literally do not even know the words you are using even means. This is the cue for me to stop wasting my time as it is the 9999999999999 thread on this. 1. Tawassul nor "ya Ali madad (help me)" is not shirk nor is it bidah nor is it ghulu. You have yet to prove otherwise. Also please learn the definition of those words before you throw it around. 2. Duas are not one way, you can dua/pray any way you want and say however way you want it. That is not bida. The literal definition of dua and supplication is not exclusive to a specific word or phrase. Do not be illogical. 3. Prophets and Imams are alive. “Reckon not those who are slain in the way of Allah, to be dead nay! They are alive and are being sustained by their Lord.” (3:169) 3. Humans, Objects(Medicine and such forth), and everything under the creation of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is by the WILL of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). It is only Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that decides and gives power to all his creations. So no again, we do not worship or put partners to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and we only worship Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 4. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) throughout the holy quran and hadith has time and time again brought forth examples of the importance of wasilah and intermediaries to get closer to Allah or to help people through using them.
  13. New definition? That isnt even a definition. That is just one of many sermons. What I find funny in this sermon where Imam Ali (عليه السلام) talks about the best means to Allah, he keeps mentioning Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام). "The best means by which seekers of nearness to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, seek nearness, is the belief in Him and His Prophet". Imagine that...why do we need to believe in Prophet Muhammad in order to seek nearness to Allah? Why not Allah only?
  14. No one is rejecting Imam Ali's definition to claim otherwise is just ignorant. It is not an either or situation. Both fall under the same branch of dua. Its linguistics and intention.You using a computer when Imam Ali did not have such an innovation, how does that align with being a follower of Imam Ali? Stop using your hands to type, you should only ask Allah for help. If you are a follower of Imam Ali you should not be doing anything he did not do in his time, and that includes using the internet. Now tell me which characteristic have I broken in terms of my rational in the way I dua. Stop throwing around that word when it does not even apply to the notion of tawassul Wait a minute. I think you need to understand what Dua, Supplications, and Prayer means. All of your misunderstandings lie here. How do people not know what these terms mean as a believer of God? Getting help from someone, calling/asking someone to help you all fall under dua, invocation, and supplication. When you ask someone to help you, you are praying that they help you. When you take an exam, you are praying that you did a good job and praying that the teacher grades it earnestly. The reason why it is not shirk is because our understanding and intention is that everything is done so by the will of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and it is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) who has given us the means to use our own existence and HIS creations. So when someone helps you they accepted your prayer, your request, your call. *Salat is supplication AND worship directly to Allah. Which is why Salat is a form of supplicating, and which is also a prayer. Salat is not a dua. But dua/prayer is part of salat. This is important to understand because you are assuming saying or invoking an imam or prophet for help is equal to worship which is far from the truth. When you say Ya Ali madat, you are not worshiping him, nor are you doing salat to him. You are simply invoking, asking, begging, requesting that Ali (عليه السلام) helps you BY THE WILL of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Again same thing applies when you are asking a doctor to help you. Ultimately, it is a given that it is only because of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will that the doctor can help you. But some of you fail to understand this and make up reasons in your head ignorantly and commit sins by falsely accusing people of shirk. What? That was a literal event. The prophet told them to take his shirt and use it as a means to cure the blindness of his father ie a miracle. The point was this was a prophet of Allah. Why is Allah commanding a prophet to use an object to cure his fathers blindness? Why is it not the case that Allah says to tell his father to call upon Allah directly? Couldnt have Allah just cured his fathers blindness without Yusuf or using Yusufs scarf? It is because Allah is showing the people that Yusuf is a means to Allah and it is by Allah will that Yusuf is capable of doing something only Allah is capable of.
  15. Let us ignore the fact that dead people can hear and see us let alone imams and prophets which both the quran and hadith proof. Let us assume they dont. So what? Again the concept of tawassul is not shirk nor is it illogical. In terms of Ya Ali madad, no it is not shirk. Human beings call on each other all the time. Human beings go to graves and call on their deceased ones all the time. I think you are failing to understand one thing which is the same problem with wahabis salifis and sunnis and that is your understanding of God, His oneness, and TAWHEED is lacking or incorrect. It always makes me laugh, imagine Yelling "TAXI!!!" in this modern world is shirk according to your understanding LOL
  16. You do realize we had prophets like Jesus (عليه السلام). and Yusuf (عليه السلام). who had the ability to heal and cure people right? People were going to Isa (عليه السلام). and asking him DIRECTLY. As in "Oh Isa please cure my sickness". You think Isa (عليه السلام). was like "HARAM BIDAH Do you have Allah on your mind?! Am I the focus? Sorry cant help you my guy. Next time please say Isa (عليه السلام) help me with the power of God" No of course not, he was endowed with the ability to do things that are considered miracles. What did Yusuf say for example? Literally commanded another human to take his shirt and use it as a means to manifest this miracle. “Go with this shirt of mine, and cast it over the face of my father, he will become clear-sighted.” (12:93) This notion that "to bring the entire focus to the human is wrong" makes no sense what so ever. Doctors cure humans with the entire focus on them and them alone. What, you think Muslims who go seek help for any reason without even having God in their minds are yelling in their minds, "OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD THIS IS NOT SHIRK IM SORRY FOR SEEKING HELP DIRECTLY FROM ANOTHER HUMAN". When you eat or drink medicine that was created by human hands, is Allah helping you or the medicine and human? It is just ridiculous. Humans and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is not stupid. No one is worshiping people. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has endowed mankind with the ability to help others. Therefore seeking help directly and focus from other humans is still by the will of Allah. Again to reiterate, it is when Humans intentional and literally believe other humans and things are equals or separate from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that this notion breaks the tawheed of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). For example Christians believing Jesus is God, or Hindus believing their idols are gods that help them in certain ways. Also in relation to authenticity of duas comment, even though Tawassul is authentic. Anyone can make up a prayer.That is what a prayer is lol. It does not even need to be authentic. If I make a prayer up now lets say, "Oh Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) please endow me with strength every tuesday when I tie my shoes". Did any prophet or imam make up this dua? no. Is it "authentic"? no. But is it haram or bidah to say this dua? Of course not. It does not go against the tawheed of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).
  17. Thank you. Case closed. If it is not shirk, nor is it forbidden, you can do it if you like. Edit: BTW the title of this thread is "tawassul is it wrong" so clearly the intention had to do with permissibility. Also pretty good short lecture by Mohammed Al-Hilli https://www.al-islam.org/media/tawassul-shirk-does-waseela-quran-mean-good-deeds-should-i-pray-allah-directly
  18. Another tawassul thread. The rational is so simple. If asking help from people were shirk or haram there would be no civilization today. Everyone asks for help from each other. That is not shirk. God does what He wills, and if He allows His representatives to answer calls/prayers as the means to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) by the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), it is not haram nor is it shirk. Intention must obviously clear but its obvious since in Shia Islam we believe God does not have partners, nor are humans deities, so of course the intention is not with shirk or anti tawheed.
  19. Wasalaam. Being a protector and guardian does not imply there is or there must be a hierarchy. You do realize that makes no sense right? Are you implying the companions of the prophet who were his protectors and guardians in wars and by his side were somehow above the prophet in any sense of this connotation? Of course not.
  20. "One of His signs is that He created for you spouses of your own species, so that you might find comfort with them, and He put mutual love and affection in your hearts. Surely in this there are lessons for the thinking people. " (Surah al‑Rum, 30:21) "He is the Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has given you partners from among yourselves, and (similarly made) the cattle (also) males and females. That is bow He multiplies you. Nothing can be compared to Him. He is the All‑bearing, the All‑seeing". (Surah al‑Shura, 42:11). https://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islam-sayyid-muhammad-husayni-beheshti-muhammad-jawad-bahonar/ Is it right to limit women and give men freedom? Answer: http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa435 Verse 34 of surah Nisa, “الرجال قوامون علی النساء” doesn’t say that men are dominant over women and can be forceful to them; what it is really saying, as word experts and commentators of the Quran have said, is that men are the guardians and protectors of women.In Allah’s (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) eyes, what matters when it comes to having high spiritual ranks, is taqwa, not gender. According to the Quran, the responsibilities that men have regarding their families has nothing to do with them being higher than women and the Quran in no way allows men to do the least injustice and transgression to them. http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa1881
  21. Personally I do not think we need to get so deep with terminology and philosophy and theology. A simple look at the quran and the life of the Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام) will answer everything -> The role of Khadija (عليه السلام). But I posted this a few weeks ago. If you have time I highly recommend listening to this lecture. The main topic is why do we exist but he discusses the role and status of women in Shia Islam.
  22. Wa salaam, welcome back my dear brother! Do not give up, start slow, obtain more knowledge on Islam and slowly apply it to your life. If you fail, try again. Failure with intention and effort is very important. Do not put yourself down. Challenge yourself, question yourself. Why do you keep failing and what is it in terms of Islam that you are struggling with. Continue to pray to Allah for guidance and help and inshAllah you will overcome as long as your intentions are pure, and you are trying your best. Life is all about struggling and struggling and struggling, and self reflection. Gain courage to change your lifestyle and learn to fall in love with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). That way, obeying Him becomes a part of your soul. To give you motivation and inspiration I highly suggest watching any lecture of Hassanain Rajabali on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hassanain+rajabali If you need any resources on Islam I suggest Al-Islam.org If you need answers in regards to religious laws and dos and donts I suggest Sistani.org
  23. It seems like you have trouble understanding there is no contradiction in that hadith. Maybe english is not your first language. That hadith is clearly talking about obedience and wilyah to the imamate as ordered by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to Prophet Muhammad (عليه السلام). and there is no contradiction to the system of taqleed in that regard.
  24. I believe you are confusing two notions which is Imamate and Maraja/Ijithad/Taqleed. Imamate is something entirely different on a higher scale with authority from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Taqleed is following those whom are the highest in terms of intellect and understanding of the religion who are capable of deducing jurisprudence and interpretation left by our prophets and imams. Marja do not make up their own rules they derive it based on the authority left by the chosen of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). “Concerning the events and issues that come up (that you don’t know the ruling of), refer to the narrators of our hadiths, for they are my (Imam Zaman ((عليه السلام).)) hujjahs (hujjah is a person who represents another, what the hujjah says is considered what the person who has appointed him has said, therefore disobeying the hujjah is considered the disobedience of his appointer.) upon you and I am Allah’s hujjah upon you.[5] Read up and research please: Why is it necessary to follow a marja’? What is the relationship between wilayah and marja’iyyah? Why do we have to follow only one marja’ and how is this matter proven through hadiths?
  25. Salam sister, may Allah provide you, your family, your future husband and his family patience and perseverance inshAllah. Some advice I can give you is that try your best to be ready and prepared to answer questions and such about both of your faiths in the near future to your families. And in that perspective I would like to provide you resources that will help you in this journey. Al-Hadi.us - Great website to see research done on the beliefs and understandings of Shia Islam through proof from the books of our ahlul sunnah brothers and sisters. This is such a thorough and well documented side by side comparison of everything because the creator of this site was also in a similar situation. https://www.al-islam.org/ Huge site that has so much resources on Islam and Shia Islam http://www.islamquest.net/en Site that answers all sorts of questions and topics pertaining to Religion, God, and Shia Islam
  • Create New...