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In the Name of God بسم الله

Blacknight

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  1. Like
    Blacknight reacted to anwar-mian in Why Imam Ali (As) Called His Sons Abu Bakr , Umar   
    Assalamu alaikum brothers and sisters!
     
    If you look at the history closely, Imam Ali was friends with Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman.  Imam Ali aided them, and had close ties with them.  Think of the time Imam Ali sent his sons Al-Hassan and Al-Hussein to guard the house of Uthman during the rebellion.  I believe the resentment of the Shia brothers towards Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman came much later.   Imam Ali also married the widowed wife of Abu Bakr and  Imam Ali loved Muhammad bin Abu Bakr.  There are other examples where you'll find these people were close friends so Imam Ali never hesitated to name his children Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman.
  2. Like
    Blacknight reacted to IQRA07 in Abu Bakr Promised Paradise?   
    Mentioned in the Qur'an as being in the cave with RasulAllah (saws) when he escaped from Mecca. I forget the exact Ayat.
  3. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Abul Hussain Hassani in Who Is Truthful ?umar & Abu Bakr Or Janabe Fatima   
    (bismillah)
    When did I prefer narration over Quran?
     
      
    You are mistaken. Suyuti in his Tafsir quotes all reports reported for each verse, unknown or known, weak or strong etc. 
     
      
    This whole witness thing is false just like Khutba Fadak is a fabrication of Shia. The Prophet (saw) never gave it anyone during his life not to Fatima (ra) or anybody else. 
      
    Each wife of the Prophet (saw) had a house and it was named after each of them i.e. House of Aisha (ra) etc. Even the Quran says to the wives of the Prophet (saw) "and stay in your houses". 
     
     
    The reason I compared other lands given Ahlulbayt because you claim they were 'usurpers'. The point was how can they be 'usurpers' when they gave other lands to Ahlulbayt and gave priority to them when distributing wealth. 
  4. Like
    Blacknight reacted to undiscovered01 in Sunni Vs Shia   
    INALHAMDA LILAHI NAHMUDUHU WA NASTEENUHU WA NASTAGH FIRHU WA NAZOOBILLAHI MIN SHURIRI ANFOOSINA WA MIN SAYIAATI AAMALINA MEIN YAHDIHIL LAHU FALA MUDILALA MEIN YUD IL FALA HADIYA LAH WA ASHADUAN LA ILAHA ILLALLAH WAHDUHU LA SHARIKA LAH WA ASHADU ANA MUHAMMADAN ABDHU WA RASOOLAHU
     
    brother
    i have no problem with excessive love for aaale Muhammad Saw. but this love should not exceed the love for Allah swt. i myself try to send durood/blessings for aale Muhammad saw and ask to bless to them just like He swt blessed aale Ibrahim AS. but this love SHOULD be inferior to my love for my Creator, Allah The Magnificient.
     
    and for the readers of this post i am not salfi/wahabi and i do not categorize in a sect, i consider my as the ummah of prophet saw and muslim. as there were no wahabi/salafi/ shia etc in the times of prophet saw. there were just momin, munafiq, ahley kitaab and mushrik.  
     
    Secondly, read my precursor for every text which is called Khutbahtul Hajjah
     
    MEIN YAHDIHIL LAHU FALA MUDILALA MEIN YUD IL FALA HADIYA LAH
     
    "Whoever Allah swt guides cannot be astrayed, Whoever is astrayed by Allah swt cannot be guided"
     
    therefore hidayah is in the hand of Allah and should not be based on progeny/itrah and indeed Allah swt is powerful over all. this should be our imaan.
     
    now my question from you would be, if you have the best example available why would you want look at second best. therefore Prophet saw is the best of examples. This statement is in the Quran
     
    Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much." (Quran: 33/21)
     
    Now when Allah is saying this then why do we get in the disputes of those after him saw. we should learn about prophet saw before we do about any other of his progeny. there is a reason why Allah swt did not bless prophet saw with male progeny indeed Allah swt has power over everything and Most Wise. we should just remember Allah swt and follow the sunnah of prophet saw. as far as those after him we leave there matters/affairs to Allah swt as indeed He swt is The Best of Judges.
     
    so my brothers in faith, follow prophet saw and call on no one except Allah swt, pray like he  saw did, fast like he saw did, give zakat like he saw did and perform hajj like he saw did. do these solely for the sake of Allah swt and no one else and try to please Him swt before we die as life is short.
     
    may Allah swt guide us all.
     
     
     
    i appoligize.
     
    its a typo brother. :)
     
    correction would be
     
    Hadrat Ali RA(radhiAllah anho)
    Imam Shafi RA(rehmatullah alehi)
  5. Like
    Blacknight got a reaction from Abul Hussain Hassani in Abu Bakr Being Called As Siddique   
    This reader judges in your favour brother because mr yam HAS TO PROVE HIS THEORY of who the hypocrites were?!?
    Quran doesn't mention who the disbelievers were...........but yam does........so am waiting for yam to get PROOF from Quran.........instead of going around in a circular argument the ONUS is on yam to prove otherwise he is lying and doing tahreef of Quran
    ASTAGHFIRULLAH
  6. Like
    Blacknight got a reaction from Abul Hussain Hassani in Why Do Ahlul-Sunna Think Umar Will Enter Paradise?   
    I guess this should be sufficient
    http://twelvershia.net/2013/08/15/al-salatu-khayrun-min-al-nawm-part-1/
  7. Like
    Blacknight got a reaction from Invoker in Abu Lulu Killed Umar ...but why?   
    Yoda1
    Blacknight, ayubi etc - wahabi Internet warrior, imbecile.
    I just wasted two minutes of my life reading your rant.
    Lols UR WHOLE LIFE IS A WASTE ANYWAY
  8. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    I'm not afraid of anything. I just want you to continue so the people of this forum can see your tehreef.
    Salams bro.
    I totally agree, this should end now but I find it rather disturbing how you havnt condemned AMEEN for his tehreef of verse 4:59.
    Regarding the verses you've bought forward then I would love to refute them BUT there isn't really any point because we will only end up in this situation we are in regarding verse 4:59.
    I just want to make 1 quick point regarding Imamate and nubuwwah.
    Imamate is not higher than nubuwwah bro you're mistaken. In what way is "imamah " higher in status than nubuwwah?? What do your imams have "extra" that prophets a.s don't?? They actually have less!!
    Bro a rasul is higher than a nabi because a rasul has a lot more work and responsibility and at most an imam has the same quality as a nabi because your imams did not bring anything new just like nabis.
    So common sense tells us that the qualities of an imam and nabi are the same but a rasul is higher than a nabi so he is higher than an imam.
    Ibrahim a.s was not "promoted" to be an "imam". There was no promotion involved but he was made a leader/imam just like any other prophet was the leader of his people.
    Why would Allah (swt) "promote" a rasul to an imam when a rasul is higher than an imam??
    The job of a rasul cannot be done by an imam.
    PS. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN IMAMATE ABOVE IS JUST AN EXPLANATION FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING.
    So sorry the CONCEPT of shia Imamate does not exist in quran.
  9. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    AMEEN you need to understand that 1.5 billion Muslims believe fee shayin means IN ANYTHING and NOT in anything WITHIN THIS. You're the only Muslim who believes fee shayin means in anything WITHIN THIS, so it's now hujjah on you to prove your claim. I WILL NOT BRING YOU A TRANSLATION THAT IS YOUR JOB NOT MINE.
    SUBHANALLAH. Now you're talking my language MASHALLAH.
    AHLE sunnah believe that the ulil amr(s) are fallible so they are bound to trip up here and there so incase they do they are to be referred to Allah (swt) and his messenger (pbuh).
    You should not ask me this question rather ask your own ulema.
  10. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    AMEEN give over.. Seriously brother you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.Just because ISLAMIC history has bought the pen and paper hadith you're trying to use it when if you read above I've answered it in my reply.
    You accuse hazrath umar r.a of making a "fuss" when you yourself are guilty of tehreef!!!
    You have no room to speak ill of anybody
  11. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    AMEEN stop acting desperate and tell me exactly where it says WORTHY and IN THIS?? In verse 4:59.
    The rest of your reply is as useful as a fart in a windstorm.
    You come on here acting all clever when you can't even translate or understand basic Arabic.
    You're stuck in a corner regarding fee shayin.
    FOR THE SAKE OF THE VIEWERS AMEEN THINKS THAT FEE SHAYIN MEANS:
    Fee shayin according to AMEEN:
    in anything WITHIN THIS
    fee shayin according to me:
    IN ANYTHING
    fee means IN and shayin means ANYTHING.
    You demand answers while doing tehreef!! You're some piece of work I tell ya
  12. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    AMEEN one does not need the "seal of approval" to show how far gone and lost you actually are.
    You still havnt shown me where it says "worthy" in that verse.
    Secondly fee shayin means IN ANYTHING
    The words WORTHY and WITHIN THIS is nothing but tehreef from you.
    I'm sorry but that's the truth.
    AMEEN I'm sorry things have turned out like this for you but you only have yourself to blame.
    As for me being all over the place then I'm sure the people reading this thread will see that it is YOU Who is all over the place and you are also confused and that is why you have turned to tehreef.
    AMEEN I think it's time for you to admit that you have lost due to your tehreef.
  13. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    ISLAMIC history there's two things.Number 1. You are too ignorant
    Number 2. You don't understand basic English so Arabic is way out of your league.
    il explain to you the best way I possibly can.
    When Allah (swt) INTENDS to do something this means he ( swt) has not done it before he made the intention.
    Never once have I said when Allah (swt) INTENDS to do something he doesn't do it.
    But..
    What I am saying is that IF Allah ( swt) INTENDS TO PURIFY AHLE BAYT THEN HOW CAN THEY (imam ali hasan Hussain FATIMA (May Allah be pleased with them all) BE BORN PURIFIED??
    Do you understand now.
  14. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    1. You insulted me first by calling me ignorant and narrow minded, so don't throw your dummy out of your pram when I give you insults back.
    2. When Allah (swt) intends to do something how on Allah (swt) earth can this mean he has already done it.
    3. YOU SAID
    if the verses was Raveled to mankind at that moment Under the Prophets (s) Kisa, Then does not that mean it has been done before.
    MY ANSWER
    how can it have been done before??
    4. YOU SAID
    And What will this change? They are still Purified fro mall Rijis am I not correct?
    MY ANSWER
    YOU ARE WRONG... This verse says Allah ( swt) INTENDS TO PURIFY
    Also you believe they were born purified when Allah (swt) clearly says he INTENDS TO PURIFY.
    If anything it makes more sense to say they were purified AFTER this verse was revealed.
    5. YOU SAID
    its sad to see your Goal is to Earn the last reply.
    MY ANSWER
    what are you talking about
  15. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    Lol... AMEEN you're too funny!!! Lol. I'M running around in circles?? Get a grip.
    You said it said Fee shayin means ANYTHING IN THIS whereas I said it means IN ANYTHING so don't come here telling meim running round in circles.
    Now il tell you again what I told you before.
    When it says IN ANYTHING then that's what the holy verse means IN ANYTHING.
    If you've got an issue with that wait till yawm al qiyamah and take it up with Allah (swt).
    Islam is not just a basic religion but it is a WAY OF LIFE.
    Islam tells us how to drink eat sleep walk live talk pray how to do politics how to talk to people how to educate how to go toilet how to sit how to do literally every single thing our lives so this is EVERYTHING and if we differ in ANYTHING because islam is EVERYTHING and ANYTHING in our lives.
    ..and no where in that verse does it say we SHOULD differ but it says IF.
    ALSO BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE TELL ME WHY YOU HAVE CHANGED YOUR STANCE ON FEE SHAYIN AND...,
    ....WHERE DOES IT SAY THE WORD "WORTHY" in that verse.
  16. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    And yea AMEEN I'm proper cornered can't find a way out!! Please help me.. Lol.
    AMEEN do yourself a favour and DISAPPEAR. Save yourself the embarrassment!! You've done nothing but run in circles.
  17. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    Brother ISLAMIC HISTORY if you in some way think that by you going round in circles deliberately, I'm going to get fed up and stop replying THEN YOU CAN DREAM ON.
    I will keep replying to you till the end UNTIL YOU START GIVING ME PROPER ANSWERS.
    It's actually very sad that I've given you precise verses regarding other usul's and shown you how precise they are and yet you havnt compared them to verse ulil amr and proven to me that ulil amr verse is precise as the other verses on the other usul's IF this verse is talking about an usul (imamat).
    YOU SAID
    I never Replied? You are falsely accusing me, of not replying now? I have very disappointed. Second of All Imam Ali (s) Did not say "Sunnah", third of all he told him to refer to the Quran. And what is wrong with this? If one needs to understand how to make a good choice, does one not need to refer to the Quran?, Of course he does, and Imam Ali (s) said this to him, as he was going to pick his men.
    MY ANSWER
    I've shown you where it says follow sunnah. What is wrong with you??
    I don't understand why you're so against following sunnah, just to prove something on verse 13:7. Tell me one thing if you can refer to your imams through their teachings then why not same for prophet (pbuh)?
    Anyway here's the part below where it says refer to sunnah:
    Letter 53
    When you are faced with problems which you cannot solve or with a difficult situation from which you cannot escape or when uncertain and doubtful circumstances confuse and perplex you, then turn to Allah and the Holy Prophet (s) because Allah has thus ordered those whom He wants to guide. The way to turn to Allah is to act diligently according to the CLEAR and EXPLICIT orders GIVEN IN HIS HOLY BOOK and to the turn to the HOLY PROPHET (s) means to FOLOW THOSE OF HIS ORDERS about which there is no doubt and ambiguity and which have been generally accepted to be CORRECTLY RECORDED
    http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/letters/letter53.htm
    Now do you understand. The orders of the prophet (pbuh) are his SUNNAH/HADITH.
    Now tell me if ali a.s was the guide and not the prophet (pbuh) then why did imam ali a.s tell Malik al ashtar r.a to refer to the sayings of the prophet (pbuh).
    YOU SAID
    (1) Most of the Sahabas mentioned in Bukhari as the enemies of Ahlulbayt (s)
    (2) Most of the Sahaba in Sunni Books did not gave Baya to Imam Ali (s).
    (3) The so called Sahabahs of yours oppressed Fatima al Zahraa .
    (4) Most of your Hadiths come from the Sahabah and not Ahlulbayt (s) ( I have read many Sunni works ) and this issue is true.
    (5) Most of the Ahadith on Ahlulbayt (s) in for example the Six Sahihs ( are claimed to be lies by most of Sunni Investigators Sadly)
    MY ANSWER
    1.prove it
    2. SO WHAT
    3. How??
    4. So what
    5. If they're authentic then they're authentic if they're not then they're not. Have you ever read merits of ali a.s in our books?? Or do you turn a blind eye to this.
    YOU SAID
    (1) The Wives are not from Ahlulbayt (s).
    (2) The Sahabah are not From Ahlylbayt (s).
    (3) I have proved to you from Bukhari and Muslim the Identity of Ahlulbayt (s).
    (4) please give a Hadith to prove your point and yet you are still making false assumptions.
    MY ANSWER
    1. We will get to this very soon
    2. So what
    3. No you havnt. Our beliefs regarding AHLE BAYT are very very very different but our views regarding AHLE KISA are the same. So no you have not proved a thing
    4. Hadith on what??
    YOU SAID
    Brother your Ignoring my Question, can you please reply with an Actual Answer.
    MY ANSWER
    Letter 53
    When you are faced with problems which you cannot solve or with a difficult situation from which you cannot escape or when uncertain and doubtful circumstances confuse and perplex you, then turn to Allah and the Holy Prophet (s) because Allah has thus ordered those whom He wants to guide. The way to turn to Allah is to act diligently according to the CLEAR and EXPLICIT orders GIVEN IN HIS HOLY BOOK and to the turn to the HOLY PROPHET (s) means to FOLOW THOSE OF HIS ORDERS about which there is no doubt and ambiguity and which have been generally accepted to be CORRECTLY RECORDED
    http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/letters/letter53.htm
    YOU SAID
    The merits of Abu bakr? yes and most of them are false. Would like you state them for me and I shall prove it to be so. That hadith ( of Imam Ali (s) is not in Sunan ibn Majah only my brother, I am sure I mentioned other Sunni Sources if you have read page 17/18.
    MY ANSWER
    ....and how you going to prove me wrong??
    YOU SAID
    But He added Ulul-Amr (those who are GIVEN AUTHORITY BY Allah). This is one of the places where the concept of Imams and the necessity of obedience to them come from.
    MY ANSWER
    where on earth in that verse does it say that the ulil amr are "given authority by Allah"?? STOP ADDING YOUR OWN BITS IN.
    YOU STILL HAVE NOT TOLD ME EVEN AFTER I HAVE SHOWN YOU PRECISE VERSES REGARDING OTHER USUL AD DIN THAT HOW COME WE ARE NOT TOLD TO "REFER " TO ULIL AMR??
    1. 1. The authority of the Messenger of Allah (s) upon the believers was unlimited and all-comprehensive. Any order given by him, under any condition, in any place, at any time, was to be obeyed unconditionally.
    THIS IS TRUE
    2. (2) Supreme authority was given to him because he was sinless (Ma'sum) and free from all types of errors and sins. Otherwise, Allah would not have ordered us to obey him with no questioning or doubt.
    THIS IS TRUE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVNT PROVEN TO ME THAT PROPHETS A.S CANT MAKE MINOR MISTAKES
    3. Also from the verse 4:59 we concluded that Ulul-Amr have been given exactly the same authority over Muslims as of Messenger, and that the obedience of Ulul-Amr has the same standing as the obedience of the Messenger.
    THEN HOW ON EARTH ARE SUNNIS MUSLIMS
    I WILL REPEAT AGAIN WHAT I HAVE SAID BEFORE
    If a verse is PRECISE then we should not have to go to hadith to understand exactly what Allah ( swt) is talking about.
    Here are a few examples... AGAIN
    Allah witnesses that there is NO DEITY except Him, and [so do] the ANGELS and those of knowledge - [that He is] maintaining [creation] in justice. There is NO DEITY EXCEPT HIM, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
    Now tell me do I need to go to hadith to understand anything??
    Surah 35:1
    [All] praise is [due] to Allah , Creator of the heavens and the earth, [who] made the ANGELS MESSENGERS having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
    NOW HERE Allah SWT WANTS TO TELL US THAT HIS ANGELS ARE MESSENGERS. DO WE NEED HADITH TO KNOW THAT ANGELS ARE MESSENGERS?? NO
    Now tell me regarding verse ulil amr why do we need to go to hadith to find out exactly what Allah ( swt) is telling us??
    ITS SIMPLE, THE VERSE OF ULIL AMR IS NOT PRECISE ENOUGH TO CALL IT A VERSE THAT CAN POINT OUT AN USUL.
    If this verse was precisely telling us about your imams then sunni would be kafir NO DOUBT.
    YOU SAID
    Your are mistaken, According to Sunan Abu Dawood, you cannot understand a verse without what the prophet (s) says about it.
    NOW STOP DODGING MY QUESTION AND TELL ME IF VERSE 4:59 IS PRECISELY TELING US ABOUT YOUR IMAMS THEN HOW ON EARTH ARE SUNNI MUSLIMS???
    DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT IGNORE THIS I WANT A STRAIGHT UP ANSWER
    TELL ME IF I DENIED ANY OTHER FOUNDATION OF ISLAM WOULD I REMAIN MUSLIM?? NO.
    SO THEN WHY ARE WE SUNNIS CONSIDERED MUSLIMS IF THERE ARE PRECISE VERSES IN QURAN (according to shia) TELLING US TO OBEY YOUR IMAMS??
    YOU SAID
    your Again trying to Justify one verse to other verses. My dear brother, But how do you Disobey Allah? if Allah gives you a Direct order to Obey The Uli al amr (eg. Imam Ali (s)) Then everyone Who fought Imam Ali (S) has Disobeyed Allah, and When the prophet (s) said I have left in you two things, Hold on to them and you will never go astray 1) The book of Allah and 2) his Ahlulbayt then if you disobey one of them you have disobeyed the prophet (s), and by Disobeying them you have also Disobeyed the Commandments mentioned in the Nobel Quran.
    MY ANSWER
    Tell me how SUNNIS are Muslims for rejecting an usul ( according to shia) and if there are "PRECISE" verses then how can we be Muslims (sunnis).
    Imamate according to shia is a direct command from Allah. (Swt) and his prophet (pbuh) so it is hujjah on the ummah, now tell me how are SUNNIS Muslims??
    YOU SAID
    Yes we are Told. As I have mentioned the The Authentic Hadith where the prophet (S) has mentioned them Name by name. Where is your Refutation for that Hadith? You cannot Skip my evidence and later on claim that I have given you nothing. This is False reasoning with me and the Audience who read this. very Sad indeed.
    MY ANSWER
    "Refutation for that hadith"??
    It's a shia hadith so why do I need to refute it since it's not hujjah on me.
    YOU SAID
    You need to stop Skipping my Analyses, and start making some proper refutes. We are told to refer to them in verse: 4:83.
    MY ANSWER
    Firstly verse 4:59 and 4:83 were not sent together. So how can you try to link them is beyond me.
    Secondly, the differing was not with the ulil amr so this is why we were told to refer to ulil amr AND prophet ( pbuh)
    Also it says clearly in that blessed verse refer to messenger AND ulil amr. Now since you don't believe we can actually refer to prophet (pbuh) But we have to refer to ulil amr instead THIS VERSE DOES NOT HELP YOU.
    Let me make it clear for you.
    IF it said refer to messenger (pbuh) OR ulil amr then you had an argument that we can refer to ANY.
    But since it says refer to messenger AND ulil amr you have to refer to BOTH. And not just refer to ulil amr ONLY.
    TELL ME ONE THING WAS TALUT r.a INFALLIBLE??
    (1) can you give me a verse where it says if we don't pray, Pay Zakat, do good deeds there will be a Deadly consequence?
    (2) This does not prove anything, there are many Obligatory things in Islam that are not mentioned with a Consequence in the Quran.
    (3) can you first tell me where I can find a verse where it tells us how to exactly pray?
    MY ANSWER
    1. You're having a laugh right?? No seriously?? Anyway here's the verses for people who do not pay Zakah;:
    “And (as for) those who hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah’s way announce to them a painful chastisement.
    On the day when it shall be heated in the fire of hell, then their foreheads and their sides and their backs shall be branded with it, this is that you hoarded up for yourselves, therefore taste what you hoarded.”
    (Surah at-Tawba 9: 34-35)
    “And let not those deem, who are niggardly in giving away that which Allah has granted them out of His grace, that it is good for them; nay it is worse for them; they shall have that whereof they were niggardly made to cleave to their necks on the resurrection day; and Allah’s is the heritage of the heavens and the earth; and Allah is aware of what you do.”
    (Surah Āli-‘Imran 3: 180)
    http://www.al-islam.org/greater_sins_complete/42.htm
    Now I've given you verses now you give me a verse where it says THERE WILL BE DIRE CONSEQUENCES FOR DISOBEYING ULI AMR.
    2.
    4:150
    to top
    Sahih International
    Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between -
    4:151
    to top
    Sahih International
    Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
    USUL NUMBER TWO NUBUWWAH
    Look at verse above
    Now the ulil amr is as you put it "side by side" with Allah (swt) and messenger (pbuh) so it would only be fair that the ulil amr also gets the pleasure of ONE verse where we are threatened to dire consequences.
    3. Like I've already told you WE ARE TALKING ABOUT USULS AND NOT FURUS.
    Let me make this a bit more clear for you.
    AT LEAST WE ARE PRECISELY told what to pray ie; SALAH whereas in verse 4:59 we are not to who to obey precisely.
    YOU SAID
    1) Why did you ignore my Reply at page 19? brother, Can you must be Narrow minded here. Allah (s.w.t) is Ordering you to Obey them, and you must obey Allah on this issue. Secondly they are Appointed by the Prophet (s) who we explained later on, can only do things by the orders of Allah I even gave you verses Concerning/to prove this issue. :
    MY ANSWER
    Brother when a verse is precise it DOES NOT need other verses to help you explain what that verse means BUT the unspecific verses CAN be linked to the PRECISE VERSES to understand them better.
    So you CANNOT use verse 5:55 to prove 4:59 and you CANNOT use 4:59 to prove 5:55 if these verses are your precise verses.
    "al-Muhkamat" (translated here as decisive) is derived from the root word h - k - m; THIS ROOT IMPLIES THAT A THING IS SO PROTECTED that nothing can PERVERT or BREAK it or INTERFERE with it. Some infinitive verbs made from it are al-ihkam (to make precise, to confirm, to strengthen), at-tahkim = to arbitrate) and al-hukm (to judge); some other words are al-hikmah (perfect knowledge, wisdom) and al-hakamah (bit of a horse's bridle). All these meanings have the elements of PROTECTION and PRECISENESS in them. Some people say that the root-word gives the meaning of protection and reformation.
    al-Ihkam of the verses means MAKING THEM SO PRECISE that no AMBIGUITY remains therein, contrary to "al-mutashdbihat" (ambiguous) ones.
    http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/tafsir/3-7-9/
    SO NOW TELL ME THE WORDS USED IN 5:55 ARE NOT PRECISE SO HOW CAN THE VERSE BE PRECISE.
    ALSO THE THE INSTRUCTIONS REGARDING REFERRING TO DO NOT PRECISELY TELL US TO REFER TO ULUL AMR.
    So read the link above and try to understand that verse 5:55 and 4:59 are not precise enough to prove an usul.
    WE ALSO FIND
    The decisive and unambiguous verses have been given this title because the ambiguous verses return to them. One part of the Book (i.e., the ambiguous verses) returns to the other part, (i.e., to the unambiguous ones).
    THE UNSPECIFIC VERSES RETURN TO THE PRECISE ONES AND NOT PRECISE VERSES TURNING TO ANY OTHER VERSE.
    But at-tashabuh mentioned in the verse under discussion means something different. The verse contrasts such verses with the decisive ones that are the basis of the Book, and then goes on to say that those in whose heart there is perversity follow such verses seeking to mislead people and to give them their own interpretation. This context makes it clear that the adjective mutashabihat, refers here to ambiguous verse whose connotation cannot be decided by the hearer just by hearing; his mind remains un­decided between one meaning and the other; this continues until he refers to the decisive verses and only then is able to fix the true connotation and semantic value of the ambiguous one. At this stage, the ambiguous verse too becomes decisive and unam­biguous but with the aid of decisive verse; WHILE THE DECISIVE VERSE IS DECISIVE BY ITSELF.
    http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/tafsir/3-7-9/
    SO THE DECISIVE VERSES ARE DECISIVE SO YOU CANNOT USE 4:59 4:83 and 5:55 TOGETHER TO PROVE IMAMATE. PICK ONE VERSE AND CALL THAT VERSE YOUR PRECISE VERSE.
    YOU SAID
    Verse 3,4, of Surat An-Najm:
    وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَىٰ
    Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.
    إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَىٰ
    It is not but a revelation revealed,
    MY ANSWER
    Will you stop misinterpreting verses PLEASE. This verse is talking about the quranic verses and NOT every single word the prophet (pbuh) spoke was a revelation so STOP LYING.
    Ok, so you tell me, if the prophet asked his wives to cook him food or wash his clothes etc etc.. Were these words a revelation?? NO. SO STOP LYING.
    YOU SAID
    No you have not. Again please define more me in your Understanding, According to the English Language what is the Difference between Specific and Precise Thank you.
    MY ANSWER
    Read the link I've given you regarding surah 3:7.
    YOU SAID
    (1) We proved through What the Prophet (s) said who Uli al amr are. And you never Refuted one Hadith. Not even one.
    MY ANSWER
    .....and which "hadith" did you provide where we are told from prophet (pbuh) who the ulil amr are?? FROM SUNNI SOURCES....OF COURSE.
    YOU SAID
    This is a Statement as you have not Refuted My Authentic Narrations Concerning verse 4:59.
    MY ANSWER
    WHAT NARRATIONS
    YOU SAID
    Please Answer the Question Directly: The Successors of Prophet Jesus (s), Solomon (s), Moses (s) Where not mentioned by name, but my other terms and same with Imam Ali (s) he was mentioned by Action and not by exact terms. Can you please give me One Hadith where the prophet (s) says if a verse is not Specific, Ignore what I say and Just use the verse? (N'aozobillah)
    MY ANSWER
    Read the link I've given you regarding verse 3:7
    YOU SAID
    Brother you did not Reply to my Analyses on this issue? Where? which post?
    Quote
    First of Allah Did not Mention the names of the Previous Imams of the Ummah, for example for have the Successor of prophet Solomon Who he was not mentioned by name, but was refer to the One "Who has the knowledge of the book", or for example the "Haware'en" Of prophet Jesus (s) Allah did not mention them by name, Also the 12 Khalifas of Israel Who Allah Appointed them, He did not mention them by name, So we Return to verse 5:55 Where All Literate Muslims know that Only Imam Ali (s) gave his Ring While Ruku, and in the verse We are ordered to obey him.
    Meaning of Wali:
    MY ANSWER
    Brother it seems even you shia can't make your minds up regarding the meaning of wali.
    If you go to this link:
    http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter3/5.html
    The word master has been used but then they've switched there stance from master to guardian in verse 56.
    They need to tell us does the word wali mean guardian or master
    Then we have another link
    5:55Only Allah is your Guardian and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay zakat while they bow.
    5:56And whoever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe for a Guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
    http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/tafsir/5-55-56/
    NOW here the word guardian is used throughout from verse 55 and 56.
    A guardian dies not necessarily have to be a leader a guardian is somebody who guards who protects and even angels are said to be our guardians in the quran:
    13:11
    For his sake there are angels following one another, before him and behind him, who GUARD him by Allah's commandment; surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition; and when Allah intends evil to a people, there is no averting it, and besides Him they have no protector.
    http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/tafsir/13-7-16/
    SO IF YOU READ the link I gave you for verse 3:7 you will understand that the word wali is not precise enough do describe Imamate.
    Also the instructions are not precise enough in surah 4:59 to call this verse precise ie; who we should refer to.
    YOU SAID
    (1) You are Commanded to Obey your Wali.
    (2) verse 4:59 clearly says Obey.
    (3) You did not prove to me that Uli al amr are not appointed by Allah to justify you stance?
    (4) Is your Wali abu Bakr or Imam Ali (s)?
    MY ANSWER
    1. No we are not. Where does it say obey the wali
    2. Yes. But don't forget you cannot do this, you cannot link4:59 and 5:55 together like that read the link I left you for surah 3:7. You cannot use another verse to prove a precise verse otherwise how on earth can the verse be precise in the first place.
    3. ... And you havnt proven that they are appointed.
    4. Imam ali. A.s
    YOU SAID
    ​(1) the bases of this Argument is the Identity of Uli al amr and I am sure you are Knowledgeable enough to Recognize the points Have point forward to justify my Stance on this issue. Since the names of Uli al amr are not mentioned as you claim, then I ask you why Was the prophet Luqman was not mentioned as a prophet In the Quran?
    MY ANSWER
    This is one of the most silliest things I've ever heard. Have you read the description regarding luqman in the quran then look at the description we get for ulil amr which is literally nothing.
    YOU SAID
    (1) Allah Has appointed Imams for the Ummah Excuse me. We have made a guide for all nations and you Ali is the Guide" (the prophet (s) said this and I have proved it to be Authentic.
    (2) Give me one verse from the Quran where Choosing the Successor of the prophet (s) is the Affair of the Ummah? Why are you lying? All the previous nations the prophets (s) have chosen their Successors? do you even know the Definition of Successorship? Can you give me One Hadith where the prophet (s) told them to go make shura?
    (3) What was the Significance of Ghadeer Khum?
    MY ANSWER
    1. You have not proven their authencity
    2. Prove imamat of your 12 imams from quran since it's an usul
    3. I'm not going over this again. We've been over this
    Verse 33:33
    Brother give me one single verse in the quran where Allah ( swt) says he intends to do something but he has already done it!!!
    YOU SAID
    Brother as you can see it says "However". Please Quote from our Books or Tafsir where it says the Jurist is of Uli al amr.
    MY ANSWER
    So what if it says "however"
    Brother are you seriously telling me that your ayatollahs do not call themselves wali al umr al muslimeen??
    Nahj ul balagah letter 6.
    Verily, those who took the oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman have sworn allegiance to me. Now those who were present at the election have no right to go back against their oaths of allegiance and those who were not present on the occasion have no right to oppose me. And so far as Shura (limited franchise or selection) was concerned it was supposed to be limited to Muhajirs and Ansars and it was also supposed that whomsoever they selected, became caliph as PER APPROVAL and PLEASURE of Allah.
    So the approval and pleasure of Allah (swt) is in shura so get your fax straight brother.
    AMEEN it is not me who sheepishly runs away but it is indeed you who does the running away.
    Now without dodging my question tell me;
    Fee shayin: does it mean IN ANYTHING like I have been saying
    Or
    Fee shayin: does it mean ANYTHING IN THIS like you've been saying.
    Also tell me where dies it say "worthy" in surah 4:59
  18. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    Also ISLAMICHISTORY khamenei refers to himself as WALI UL AMR AL MUSLEEN
    Who gave him the right to call himself that??
    Since this is only for the infallibles (according to shia) and here we have a top class ayatollah giving himself the title of "wali al umr ul muslimeen"
  19. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    Also ISLAMIC HISTORY you said that all shia believe that ulil amr are your imams only whereas al islam seem to think differently: this is what it says ion their website.
    http://www.al-islam.org/a-short-treatise-on-the-guardianship-of-the-jurist-mansour-leghaei/5.htm
    "However, during the era of occultation, when the community is deprived of the most perfect example, then the authority to TAKE CHARGE OF THE AFFAIRS goes to he who is closest to the perfect example and that is the QUALIFIED JURIST, so that he may STOP ANARCHY.
    This is interesting!! So what they're saying is while imam mahdi is in occultation the jurist become the ulil amr.. They become "those in charge of the affairs"
    Very interesting indeed.
  20. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Just the truth in Verse 4:59 - Ulil Amr.   
    YOU SAID
    (1) And how do we refer to the Quran? Would like to explain to me how and from who should we take our Ahadith from to Interpret the Quran? Please Answer this Question with Direct sense.
    MY ANSWER
    Have I not shown you in letter 53 where imam ali a.s says that you should refer to quran by going to the clear and explicit verses, you never replied on that issue.
    We should take hadith from sahaba and AHLE BAYT of course. There are hadiths in our books where we have individuals who were very knowledgeable in quran from among the sahaba.
    YOU SAID
    (2) When the prophet Passed Away, not all the verse Were given its meaning, so who should the people at the time refer to after the prophet (s)? Ahlulbayt (s)? or Abu bakr? Umar? uthman?
    MY ANSWER
    AHLE BAYT senior sahaba prophets wives.
    YOU SAID
    (3) How do we refer to the prophet (s)?
    (4) In Sunan Ibn Majah the prophet (s) said: "Ali is from me, and I am from Ali". I said this a while back and I asked you if you think Aby bakr is superior why does he not have this position?
    MY ANSWER
    Re read letter 53 nahj ul balagah.
    Have you read the merits of abu bakr in sahih sittah?? FUNNY HOW YOU SINGLE OUT ALI a.s FROM SAHIH SITTAH WHEN YOU KNOW VERY WELL THAT THE MERITS OF ABU BAKR r.a ARE ALSO THERE.
    YOU SAID
    I think I know very Well what it means. But I wonder whether you know the meaning of "Evading".
    MY ANSWER
    Excuse me.... Is that a question or a statement
    YOU SAID
    (1) Na'zozobillah, Allah as made his Book Perfect in every Aspect.
    (2) Uli al Amr have both knowledge of the book of Allah and of What the prophet (s) has.
    (3) you cannot make that judgement as you have no knowledge that is pure about the Book of Allah.
    MY ANSWER
    What do you mean na'zozobillah??like I said it wasn't a perfect book
    Look at verse 4:59 I say it's perfect in everyway way shape and form. Allah (swt) IS CLEARLY SAYING REFER TO Allah (swt) and messenger (pbuh). That is perfect whereas you're saying it should say refer to ulil amr. I'm saying what the holy quran is saying and that is IF YOU DIFFER IN ANYTHING REFER TO Allah (swt) AND HIS MESSENGER (pbuh). So it's na'zozobillah to you my friend.
    I will repeat what I said previously which you seem to have missed. IF Allah (swt) has not told us who the ulil amr are the very least YOU should have if you want to use this as a PRECISE verse is the INSTRUCTIONS ie; refer to ulil amr also.
    Lete give you a few examples
    Allah witnesses that there is NO DEITY except Him, and [so do] the ANGELS and those of knowledge - [that He is] maintaining [creation] in justice. There is NO DEITY EXCEPT HIM, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
    Do I need hadith to understand Allah (swt) is one?? NO
    All] praise is [due] to Allah , Creator of the heavens and the earth, [who] made the ANGELS MESSENGERS having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
    DO I NEED HADITH TO TELL ME WHO Allah (swt) is talking about in this verse?? NO BECAUSE IT SAYS ANGELS.
    Now let's take a look at verse 4:59.
    IT DOES NOT SAY REFER TO ULIL AMR YET YOU MAGICALLY SOMEHOW SEEM TO JUMP STRAIGHT TO HADITH AND TRY TO PROVE THAT WE SHOULD REFER TO ULIL AMR WHEREAS IN THAT VERSE THERE IS NO MENTION OF REFERRING TO ULIL AMR.
    So how can you call this a PRECISE verse?? When it doesn't say refer to ulil amr
    2. First prove that it is your imams that are the ulil amr.
    3. Answered above.
    YOU SAID
    (1) As we have proven Earlier, you must know what the prophet (s) said in order to understand a Particular verse, otherwise your interpretation or any other Tafsir would Simply become false.
    (2) Your mumbling non-sense, since you have not proven anything so far.
    (3) I never said Leave the verse and go Directly to a Hadith. Can you pease Quote me saying such a thing.
    MY ANSWER
    1. Look here what you're saying in point 1 for Christ sake. Then you again contradict yourself in point 3 saying you don't have to go to hadith.
    LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT FOR YOU THE WHOLE REASON WE ARE TOLD PRECISELY WHAT Allah ( swt) IS TALKING ABOUT IN THE PRECISE VERSES IS SO THAT WE DO NOT NEED HADITH TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT Allah (swt) IS TALKING ABOUT SO OTHER VERSES CAN BE INTERPRETED DIFFERENTLY JUST AS LONG AS YOU DONT GO AGAINST QURAN.
    Read surah 3:7 properly for crying out loud
    Surah 3:7
    It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] PRECISE - they are the FOUNDATION of the Book - and others UNSPECIFIC. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is UNSPECIFIC, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . And those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
    Now do you understand.
    If a verse is specific then THE ONLY REASON WE NEED TO GO TO HADITH IS TO FIND OUT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION and not go to hadith to try and find OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE VERSE IS SAYING, because the verse should PRECISELY SAY WHAT Allah (swt) is trying to say.
    Let me show you a few examples AGAIN..
    1. All] praise is [due] to Allah , Creator of the heavens and the earth, [who] made the ANGELS MESSENGERS having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
    Does Allah ( swt) keep us guessing as to who he (swt ) is talking about in this verse?? NO. We are told ANGELS.
    Now.. do we need to go to hadith to know WHO Allah (swt) is talking about in this verse?? NO because we know Allah ( swt) is talking about ANGELS. Also Allah ( swt) tells us that the angels are messengers.
    Now let's take a look at ulil amr verse.
    Firstly we are not told WHO exactly are the ulil amr.
    Secondly we are not told to refer to ulil amr.
    SO HOW ON GODS EARTH IS THIS VERSE PRECISE.
    Now let's look at another precise verse talking about usul
    Verily, We did send down the TORAH [to Musa], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah’s Will, judged the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests [too judged the Jews by the TORAH after those Prophets] for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah'S BOOK, and they were witnesses thereto. Therefore fear not men but fear Me (O Jews) and sell not My Verses for a miserable price. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the disbelievers." (5:44)
    So here we are told precisely the books of Allah (swt ) and their names there are other verses talking about zaboor and quran if you want I can get them for you.
    Anyway, do we need hadith to know Allah ( swt) sent holy books?? NO
    And I can go on with precise verses forever.
    Now let's go back to ulil amr
    Is ulil amr a precise verse?? NO
    1. We are not told who the ulil amr are?? EVEN IF NOT BY NAME THEN ATLEAST BY DESCRIPTION BROTHER ie "appointed imams".
    Now because we are not told exactly who the ulil amr is/are then all we can do is take it as though it's anybody with authority. Just because according to sunni hadith it was sent for commanders THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT IS ONLY FOR COMMANDERS, because if Allah (swt) was to send this verse only for commanders then he (swt) would have said "army commanders" so because it says "those vested with authority" then this can only mean anybody with authority and if we differ then go back to Allah ( swt) and messenger (pbuh).
    2. We are not told to refer to ulil amr so how can you call this a PRECISE verse?? When the instructions are not PRECISE?? Ie refer to ulil amr.
    Now you say I'm "mumbling". Well what do you exactly mean ?? How am I mumbling when I'm giving you quran as my witness and evidence?? RATHER IT IS YOU WHO IS MUMBLING FOOLING YOURSELF INTO THAT IT SAYS REFER TO ULIL AMR!!
    so how you call this verse precise is beyond me!!
    TELL ME IF THIS VERSE IS YOUR PRECISE VERSE THEN WHY ARNT WE TOLD TO REFER TO ULIL AMR.
    Now if I was to say to you obey X Y and Z and if you differ refer to X and Y. Now tell me if I was trying to tell you PRECISELY that Z has the same authority as x and y then why wouldn't I tell you to refer to Z
    X is Allah (swt)
    Y is prophet (pbuh)
    Z is ulil amr
    Now I've given you verses where we are told that if you disobey Allah ( swt) and messenger (pbuh) there are deadly consequences and if the ulil amr was as important as Allah ( swt) and his messenger (pbuh) then why wouldn't Allah (swt) also threaten us with deadly consequences??
    So let's see what we have here regarding ulil amr.
    1. We are not told exactly who they are.
    2. There is no mention of referring to them
    3. There is no verse telling us that we will face deadly consequences.
    NOW ASK ANY NEUTRAL PERSON AND THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT THE ULIL AMR CANNOT BE A GODLY APPOINTED INDIVIDUAL(S).
    YOU SAID
    (1) You never Answered my Question to begin with.
    (2) please Answer the Question above from the start.
    ​(3) I believe my answer was very much detailed, while you have not refuted any of my stance, that is why you seem repeat your question every single time. I am waiting for your Objection to my third/Second last response on page 18.
    MY ANSWER
    Read what I've written above and try to refute it.
    YOU SAID
    Quote
    (1) you claim that When we give you a Verse it is Unspecific.
    (2) This is the Excuse you use to Not accept The Imamah of Imam Ali .
    (3) You Prefer to Exclude even your own books for the sake of your beliefs.
    (4) please Define for us what us Precise and Unspecific to you?
    (5) Your Asking for the Exact names from the Quran, because you deny Authentic Traditions.
    (6) I will ask you once more, Why was the Instructions on how to preform Salat not mentioned in the Quran?
    (7) The Successors of Prophet Jesus (s), Solomon (s), Moses (s) Where not mentioned by name, but my other terms.
    (8) Imam Ali (s) Was mentioned in 5:55, And he is to be obeyed. So May I ask you, if you lived in the time of prophet Jesus (s), and in the book of Allah the only term you got for his Successors Was "AlWareen", Will you deny the Successors? because they Were not mentioned by name?
    (9) If you lived for example in the time of prophet Jesus (s), Moses (s), Ibrahim, (s), and you only had What a book they left for example but the Successors Were not mentioned by name, bu you were ordered to by them to obey the Successor after them Will you Still deny?
    (10) We all know that the prophet Luqman (s) Is mentioned in the Quran, but in the Quran there is no verse where it says he is a prophet (s), So Do you deny prophet Luqman (s)?
    MY ANSWER
    you really want me to answer your questions?? Fine.
    1. Is that a question or a statement.
    2. Is this a question or a statement.
    3. Is this a question or an insult.
    4. I believe I have if you read my answer above along with the verses I've given you.
    5. Is that a question or a statement.
    6. We are talking about usul's and not furus. Anyway even in furus the instructions given are precise ie; pray salah give Zakah. These are precise instructions now if you look at ulil amr the verse does not tell us to refer to ulil amr so how on earth is that a precise verse.
    7. Maybe because it's not important for us to know there names but it is very important for the ummah to know the names of our successors. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh asking for names, but at asking for a precise verse where Allah (swt) says he will appoint imams for this ummah is DEFINATELY not too much too ask for. Even something as simple as;
    I WILL SEND IMAMS AFTER PROPHET WHO WILL BE APPOINTED BY ME.
    8. I've been over this verse with you in my previous reply.
    9. Firstly nowhere does it say in 5:55 OBEY and secondly why are you using the word THEY when there is no specific verse where Allah (swt) tells us to OBEY your imams.
    10. What has luqman a.s got to do with imamah of 12 imams?? Maybe I'm being a bit harsh asking for names then atleast give me one precise verse where Allah (swt) says he will send imams.
    As for shura then not a single verse says Allah ( swt) has appointed imams so this was the affair of the ummah.
    YOU SAID
    One Who does not Believe in all one of the Twelve Khalifas, Does not believe in All them. According to the school of Ahlulbayt (s).
    The Ismailis Stop at the sixth Imam I believe.
    MY ANSWER
    The last two words in your above reply are not very convincing "I believe". This is your "own assumption"
    YOU SAID
    What Kind of Question is this? How are We suppose to Question What Allah says?
    And keep in mind that When Allah Intends, He wants, and When he Wants he has been done.
    are you saying that What Allah Wants will not get? (Istaghfarallah)
    Sorry but you make no sense let us Examine the following:
    وَلَا تُعْجِبْكَ أَمْوَالُهُمْ وَأَوْلَادُهُمْ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ أَن يُعَذِّبَهُم بِهَا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَتَزْهَقَ أَنفُسُهُمْ وَهُمْ كَافِرُونَ
    " And let not their wealth and their children impress you. Allah only intends to punish them through them in this world and that their souls should depart [at death] while they are disbelievers. " - 9:85
    We can see here very Clearly that Allah is telling not to care about the Wealth and Children of others of Certain people, and that Allah INTENTS only to punish them through them. So here you cannot say, that Allah has Punished them before, But he does this TO THEM, To punish them, and this goes Vise-verse to the Purification verse. Allah INTENDS to Remove "Rijs" From Alhulbayt to Purify them, from All that is "Rijs" (sin).
    Again lets take another look at another verse:
    _______
    وَأَنِ احْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ وَاحْذَرْهُمْ أَن يَفْتِنُوكَ عَن بَعْضِ مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ ۖ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْا فَاعْلَمْ أَنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ أَن يُصِيبَهُم بِبَعْضِ ذُنُوبِهِمْ ۗ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ النَّاسِ لَفَاسِقُونَ
    "And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away - then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient." - 5:49
    We see the same issue here, that if they the people Turn away from What Allah has Revealed to them, then Allah Well Intend to Afflict them With their own sins, and keep reading and he says "Many people are Defiantly Disobedient, to assure this issue stated. But When We Compare this verse to the Purification verse we see, that in the Purification Allah is being Direct That he "Only Intends", and no Factors for that intention is Required to make the "Intention" happen, but it is Direct and a Must. Same with the Above verse.
    there are many more verses I can mention Also on this issue.
    MY ANSWER
    Brother am i talking French I summat??
    If your imams were born sinless then why would Allah (swt) INTEND TO PURIFY THEM??
    When Allah (swt) INTENDS on doing something then he intends to do it, it doesn't mean he has already done it.
    So now tell me if your imams were born sinless ali hasan Hussein a.s then why would Allah (swt) INTEND TO PURIFY THEM.
    It's a bit like Allah (swt) saying he intends on making hell. Whereas we all know this would not make sense because why would Allah (swt) INTEND on making hell if he already has made it.
    When you intend on doing something that means it's your intention and intention comes before the action.
    Now tell me why would Allah (swt) intend to purify your imams if they were born sinless.
    YOU SAID
    (1) I never said the verse was mentioned as Imamat. please Quote me saying such a thing.
    (2) the verse proves the Infalibility of Ahlulbayt (s).
    (3) Fatimat'olZahraa is Infallible.
    MY ANSWER
    1. Stop lying dear brother you have in previous posts. Also this verse is used by shia to prove that imam ali a.s had more right to caliphate then abu bakr r.a because he was "sinless".
    2. We will see about that.
    3. Yea buh y?? I know she us from AHLE BAYT buh what was the reason or her r.a being infallible??
    Brother can you explain your point on letter 6 nahj ul balagah as I am confused as to what you're exactly saying.
    AMEEN you really need to stop imagining what YOU THINK it says and read what it ACTUALLY says.
    I want you to tell me two things.
    1. Fee shayin
    Does it mean ANYTHING IN THIS like you've been saying
    Or does it mean IN ANYTHING like I've been saying
    2. PROVE TO ME WHERE IT SAYS THAT Ulul amre minkum MEANS those who are WORTHY of authority among you"
    SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS WORTHY.
    Before you go on your dead end quest of finding me the word WORTHY make sure it's from a reliable source via a link.
  21. Like
    Blacknight reacted to lightOfMonotheism in Ex-Sunni Scholar Hassan Shehata On His Conversion   
    Did you forget your cult has no importance about what is sahih and what is not ;)
  22. Like
    Blacknight got a reaction from igotquestions in Why Werent The Imams Names Mentioned In Quran?   
    Lol brother that makes 1.6 billion of us!!!
  23. Like
    Blacknight got a reaction from igotquestions in Why Werent The Imams Names Mentioned In Quran?   
    Here we go with TAFSEERS and the BIG LIST you gave me thanks
    I see you like to copy paste so I will do same
    1. Narrated by Ath-Thabaraniy in Al-Ausath no. 6232 from hadits ‘Ammaar (bin Yaasir). In it exist a narrator called Khaalid bin Yaziid Al-‘Umariy, he is a liar.Ibnu Ma’in said : “Liar”. Abu Haatim said : “Liar, his hadith is abandoned” (kadzdzaab, dzaahibul-hadiits)” [Al-Jarh wat-Ta’diil 3/360 and Al-Miizaan 1/646 – via Majma’ul-Bahrain 1/279 & 6/20 by Al-Haitsami]. Ishaq bin ‘Abdillah bin Muhammad bin ‘Aliy bin Husain, not found his biography. Al-Hasan bin Zaid bin Al-Hasan bin ‘Aliy bin Abi Thaalib Abu Muhammad, he is trustworthy but sometimes err (shaduuq, yahimu) – as mention in At-Taqrib.
    2. Narrated by Al-Wahidiy (no. 397), from Muhammad bin Marwaan, from Muhammad bin Saaib, from Abu Shaalih, from Ibnu ‘Abbaas with marfu’. But the sanad is not shahih at all. Muhammad bin Marwaan, he is As-Suddiy Ash-Shaghiir, his hadith is abandoned, accuse of lying (matruk, muttaham bil-kidzb). Ibnu Saaib, he is Al-Kalbiy, known as liar. Please refer to Al-Miizaan. Abu Shaalih is Baadzaam; weak narrator.Ibnu Hibban said he did not hear hadith from Ibnu ‘Abbas [Tahdziibut-Tahdziib, 1/416-417].
    3. Narrated by ‘Abdurrazzaq as in Tafsir Ibnu Katsiir (5/266), from Ibnu ‘Abbas. Ibnu Katsir said : “Its sanad contain ‘Abdul-Wahhaab bin Mujaahid, a person who cannot be made as hujjah". Adz-Dzahabi said in Al-Miizaan (2/682) : “Yahya said : ‘His hadith is not written’. Ahmad said : ‘He is nothing'(laisa bi-syai’)’. Ibnu ‘Adiy said : ‘Generally there is no mutaba’ah in whatever he narrated. Al-Bukhari said : ‘ The ulama said : He did not hear hadith from his father.
    4. Narrated Ath-Thabari (no. 12214) from Mujaahid as mursal, in its sanad contain Ghaalib bin ‘Ubaidillah, his hadith is abandoned. Al-Bukhari said : “Munkarul-hadiits, heard from Mujaahid” [At-Taariikh Al-Kabiir 7/101 – via Tafsir Ibni Katsiir 5/265]. Refer to footnote Asy-Syaikh Ahmad Syaakir about this atsar in tafsir Ath-Thabariy 10/426]. He (Ath-Thabari – no. 12211) also narrated from Abu Ja’far, but the narration is mu’dlal.
    5. Ibnu Katsir said (5/264-265I) : “Ibnu Marduyah (Mardawaih) narrated hadits ‘Ali bin Abi Thaalib radliyallaahu ‘anhu, ‘Ammaar bin Yaasir, dan Abu Raafi’; but it is not authenthic all the narration because of the weak sanad and majhul of narrators.
    6. Narrated by Ibnu Abi Haatim from Salmah bin Kahiil (hal. 1162 no. 6551). But this sanad is munqathi’ between Salmah bin Kahiil and ‘Ali bin Abi Thaalib. Salmah although tsiqah have slight tendency to shia[lihat At-Tahdziib 4/156-157].
    These shows all the narration is weak, extremely weak and even fabricated. The weakness is agree by muhaqqiq of Lubaabun-Nuquul
    It sure is very strang my brother when you KEEP TWISTING in your mind that UNKNOWN thought of Imamate your whole explanation is absurd because you cannot equate bow down with salah when Quran is clearly linking the two together cos its THE ACTION of the salah AS IS CLEARLY EXPLAINED
    But .....you my brother because you have NOTHING , ZILCH on Imamate CLEAR CUT are using weak and daif hadiths to support the THEORY OF ALI RADHYIALLAHUAN AND THE BEGGER to a quranic ayah which HAS COMPLETELY NOTHING, ZILCH ON IMAMATE OF ALI RADHYIALLAHUAN OR IMAMATE ITSELF
    Like I keep saying its that simple and easy my brother you just make it hard for yourself trying to ADD meanings to words that have a completely different meaning or understanding
    Take the words for as they are and if it doesn't make sense to you then CHILL sit back relax and think long and hard.........,ITS Allah SUBHANAWATALLAHS BOOK!!!
  24. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Saimaaa in Why Aren't The Ansar Worse Than Abubakr And Umar?   
    Meanwhile , i have started believing in the beneficial Flying spaghetti monster. Anyone who wants to enjoy the benefits must start believing in him first.
  25. Like
    Blacknight reacted to Abul Hussain Hassani in Why Aren't The Ansar Worse Than Abubakr And Umar?   
    in reality.
    Your friend Ali Mussaaa said this about the verse of Surah Ra'd:
    then you posted weak Hadiths to support what he said. So I asked you that are you claiming the Prophet (saw) is not a guide to our generation but Ali (ra) is?
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