Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Dagga

Banned
  • Content Count

    258
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Dagga


  1. But you accept it was allowed at one point?

    Mutah is a pagan act, it was practised before Islam, when Shias say the Prophet (pbuh) "allowed" or "gave permission" for it, the ignorant people are under the impression that the Prophet (pbuh) was the one who introduced it or even promoted it, but this is not the case at all! It was permissible in the times of war and for those who had weak faith and then it was banned, just like liquor, it was allowed at first and then banned.

    Yes, it was allowed at one point but definitely banned.


  2. (bismillah)

    After a bit of reading I came across an article on the matter at hand, just echoing the points the original author made and wanted people on Shiachat to read it.

    I have noticed that quite a few Shi'a are trying to accuse Umar ibn al Khattab R.A of "running away" and being a "coward" in battle, I decided to make this thread after a conversation with Al-Hadi on the chatroom on a few questions he raised.

    The only "evidence" they will bring forth is the following hadith.

    ÃóÈóÇ ÞóÊóÇÏóÉó¡ ÞóÇáó: áóãóøÇ ßóÇäóíóæúãó Íõäóíúäò äóÙóÑúÊõ Åöáóì ÑóÌõáò ãöäó ÇáãõÓúáöãöíäó íõÞóÇÊöáõ ÑóÌõáðÇ ãöäóÇáãõÔúÑößöíäó¡ æóÂÎóÑõ ãöäó ÇáãõÔúÑößöíäó íóÎúÊöáõåõ ãöäú æóÑóÇÆöåö áöíóÞúÊõáóåõ¡ÝóÃóÓúÑóÚúÊõ Åöáóì ÇáóøÐöí íóÎúÊöáõåõ¡ ÝóÑóÝóÚó íóÏóåõ áöíóÖúÑöÈóäöí æóÃóÖúÑöÈõíóÏóåõ ÝóÞóØóÚúÊõåóÇ¡ Ëõãóø ÃóÎóÐóäöí ÝóÖóãóøäöí ÖóãðøÇ ÔóÏöíÏðÇ¡ ÍóÊóøì ÊóÎóæóøÝúÊõ¡Ëõãóø ÊóÑóßó¡ ÝóÊóÍóáóøáó¡ æóÏóÝóÚúÊõåõ Ëõãóø ÞóÊóáúÊõåõ¡ æóÇäúåóÒóãó ÇáãõÓúáöãõæäóæóÇäúåóÒóãúÊõ ãóÚóåõãú¡ ÝóÅöÐóÇ ÈöÚõãóÑó Èúäö ÇáÎóØóøÇÈö Ýöí ÇáäóøÇÓö¡ ÝóÞõáúÊõáóåõ: ãóÇ ÔóÃúäõ ÇáäóøÇÓö¿ ÞóÇáó: ÃóãúÑõ Çááóøåö

    Narrated Abu Qatada: We set out in the company of Allah's Apostle on the day (of the battle) of Hunain. When we faced the enemy, the Muslims retreated and I saw a pagan throwing himself over a Muslim. I turned around and came upon him from behind and hit him on the shoulder with the sword He (i.e. the pagan) came towards me and seized me so violently that I felt as if it were death itself, but death overtook him and he released me. I followed 'Umar bin Al Khattab and asked (him), "What is wrong with the people(fleeing)?" He replied, "This is the Will of Allah," After the people returned, the Prophet sat and said, "Anyone who has killed an enemy and has a proof of that, will posses his spoils." [sahih al-Bukhari, Book 53, Hadith 370]

    Nowhere in the hadith does it state that he ran away or anything even remotely close to it, but by using this narration the Shi'a will eagerly try to challenge the Sunnis on Umar R.A and attempt to make him look like a coward and make it look like he abandoned the Prophet (pbuh) and thus betrayed Islam.

    However, this is not the reality of the matter at all- we can see from this SAHIH hadith what really happened-

    ÍÏíË ãÑÝæÚ ÍóÏóøËóäóÇ íóÚúÞõæÈõ , ÍóÏóøËóäóÇ ÃóÈöí , ÚóäöÇÈúäö ÅöÓúÍóÇÞó , Úóäú ÚóÇÕöãö Èúäö ÚõãóÑó Èúäö ÞóÊóÇÏóÉó , Úóäú ÚóÈúÏö ÇáÑóøÍúãóäöÈúäö ÌóÇÈöÑò , Úóäú ÌóÇÈöÑö Èúäö ÚóÈúÏö Çááóøåö

    ÝóÇäúØóáóÞó ÇáäóøÇÓõ ÅöáóøÇ Ãóäóø ãóÚó ÑóÓõæáö Çááåö ÕóáóøìÇááåõ Úóáóíúåö æóÓóáóøãó ÑóåúØðÇ ãöäó ÇáúãõåóÇÌöÑöíäó æóÇáúÃóäúÕóÇÑö¡ æóÃóåúáö ÈóíúÊöåöÛóíúÑó ßóËöíÑò¡ ËóÈóÊó ãóÚóåõ Õóáóøì Çááåõ Úóáóíúåö æóÓóáóøãó ÃóÈõæ ÈóßúÑò æóÚõãóÑõ¡æóãöäú Ãóåúáö ÈóíúÊöåö¡ Úóáöíõø Èúäõ ÃóÈöí ØóÇáöÈò¡ æóÇáúÚóÈóøÇÓõ Èúäõ ÚóÈúÏö ÇáúãõØóøáöÈö¡æóÇÈúäõåõ ÇáúÝóÖúáõ Èúäõ ÚóÈóøÇÓò¡ æóÃóÈõæ ÓõÝúíóÇäó Èúäõ ÇáúÍóÇÑöËö¡ æóÑóÈöíÚóÉõÈúäõ ÇáúÍóÇÑöËö¡ æóÃóíúãóäõ Èúäõ ÚõÈóíúÏò æóåõæó ÇÈúäõ Ãõãöø Ãóíúãóäó¡ æóÃõÓóÇãóÉõÈúäõ ÒóíúÏò¡ ÞóÇáó: æóÑóÌõáñ ãöäú åóæóÇÒöäó Úóáóì Ìóãóáò áóåõ ÃóÍúãóÑó Ýöí íóÏöåöÑóÇíóÉñ áóåõ ÓóæúÏóÇÁõ Ýöí ÑóÃúÓö ÑõãúÍò Øóæöíáò áóåõ ÃóãóÇãó ÇáäóøÇÓö¡ æóåóæóÇÒöäõÎóáúÝóåõ

    Ya'qoub narrated from his Father from Ibn Ishaq from 'Assim ibn 'Umar bin Qatada from 'Abdul-Rahman ibn Jabir from Jabir ibn 'Abdullah:

    The people retreated but the Prophet SAWS was accompanied by a group from the Mouhajirun and the Ansar and his Ahlul-Bayt, Those who held their ground and stayed with him were Abu Bakr an 'Umar and from his Ahlul-Bayt 'Ali ibn abi Talib and al-'Abbas bin 'Abdul-Mutallib and his son al-Fadl and Abu Suffiyan bin al-Harith and Raba'iyah bin al-Harith and Ayman bin 'Ubeid and he is ibn Umm-Ayman and Usamah ibn Zaid, he said: and a Man from Hawzan (until the end of the narration). "Musnad Ahmad" volume 23 page 274 Hadith #14731

    As stated in the above narration we can see that Umar R.A and Abu Bakr R.A both "held their ground and stayed with him (pbuh) " - and not only did Umar R.A fight back and defend the Prophet (pbuh) while other Muslims retreated but he also received two female captives as recorded in Bukhari :

    Narrated Nafi: 'Umar binAl-Khattab said, "O Allah's Apostle! I vowed to observe Itikaf for one dayduring the Pre-lslamic period." The Prophet ordered him to fulfill his vow. 'Umar gained two lady captives from the war prisoners of hunain and he left them in some of the houses at Mecca. When Allah's Apostle freed the captives of hunain without ransom, they came out-walking in the streets. 'Umar said (to his son), "O Abdullah! See what is the matter." 'Abdullah replied, "Allah's Apostle has freed the captives without ransom." He said (to him), "Go and set free those two slave girls." [sahih al-Bukhari Book 53 Hadith 372]

    I hope that clears the issue on Umar R.A "running away".

    Now lets see who the true coward is from your own Shia sources and biggest scholars.

    al-Tusi in his book al-Ghaybah page 203, al-Murtada in his book al-Shafi volume 4 page 149 and al-Mufid in his book al-Fusoul al-Mukhtarah page 395:

    áÇ ÓÈÈ ááÛíÈÉ æáÇ ÚáÉ ÊãäÚå ãä ÇáÙåæÑ ÇáÇ ÎæÝ ÇáÇãÇã Úáì äÝÓå ãä ÇáÞÊá

    "The only reason behind the ghaybah(occultation) of the Mahdi and the reason that he cannot appear is that he fears that he will be killed."

    (wasalam)


  3. From experience in discussing with some in the past, they tend to get very easily heated up if you were to say something as largely accepted that the Prophet s.a.w "passed away" or "died", because he is alive in his grave.

    I swear this post confused me, do Shias not believe that Imams are still alive?


  4. I'm not here to say this person is Muslim and this person isn't etc, just to make it clear, if Shias call Sunnis 'non-believers/ kuffar/ not Muslim' it is because Sunnis don't believe in Imamate- and trust me I've heard it from quite a few, on the other hand, when Sunnis call Shias 'non-believers/ kuffar/ not Muslim' they say this is due to Shirk.


  5. I have a Sunni friend who is a firm lover of Ahlul Bayt and Irfan and provides excellent food for thought during the months of Ramadhan

    Every Sunni loves Ahlel Bayt brother.

    Imam Khomeini (ra) was even a connoisseur of Sunni texts (Ibn Arabi, Ibn Sina, Rumi)

    Whats your opinion on this?

    "To prove that government and authority belong to the Imam (‘a) is not to imply that the Imam (‘a) has no spiritual status. The Imam (‘a) does indeed possess certain spiritual dimensions that are unconnected with their function as a ruler. The spiritual status of the Imam (‘a) is a universal divine viceregency that is sometimes mentioned by the Imams (‘a). It is a viceregency pertaining to the whole of creation, by virtue of which all the atoms in the universe humble themselves before the holder of authority. It is one of the essential beliefs of our Shi‘i school that no one can attain the spiritual status of the Imams, not even the cherubim (angels) or the prophets."

    The next bit is actually hilarious, sounds like some sort of fairytale.

    " In fact, according to the traditions that have been handed down to us, the Most Noble Messenger and the Imams (‘a) existed before the creation of the world in the form of lights situated beneath the divine throne;"

    Does this verse mean nothing to this Grand Ayatullah of yours?!

    19_67.png

    Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?


  6. Salam alaykom, brothers and sisters. Here are some more proofs from the Sunnah:

    http://en.wikipedia....elve_Successors

    Sahih al-Bukhari is the most authentic collection of hadiths in the Sunnah

    Sahih Bukhari:

    Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad say "There will be twelve Muslim rulers." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."

    Book 89:329

    Sahih Muslim is the second most authentic collection of hadiths in the Sunnah

    Sahih Muslim:

    Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad say "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."

    Book 20:4477-4483

    And there are more than 20 similar narrations

    Sunan al-Tirmidhi:

    The Prophet said: "There will be after me twelve rulers, all of them from Quraysh."

    Hadith 2149 (numbering of al-Alamiyyah)

    Sunan Abu Dawood:

    The Prophet said: "This religion remains standing until there are twelve vicegerents over you, all of them agreeable to the nation, all of them from Quraysh."

    Book 36:4266

    You get my point, you can't use the above hadiths to support your Imamate doctrine because 1- If it is a divinely appointed post, why not 'from Ahlel Bayt' to be more specific? and 2- You cannot prove the existence of your 12th Imam.

    And here are some proofs from the Quran:

    Surah Al-Ahzaab, Ayahs 32-33:

    O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah , then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech. And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Verily, Allah has decreed to purify you, O' Ahlul Bayt, and sanctify you in a perfect way”

    Brother, please don't try take a verse out of context :(

    Surah As-Sajda, Ayah 24-25:

    {24} "And amongst them We appointed imams to guide [the people] by Our command, when they had been patient and had conviction in Our signs."

    {25} "Indeed your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that about which they used to differ."

    Sunnis say the occultation of the 12th Imam means he is hiding in a cave

    Astaghfirullah! Do they not know that the Prophet Isa (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) is in occultation? Do they say that he is in a cave?!

    By Allah a Shia themselves told me that the 12th Imam is hiding in a cave, Isa (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) is with Allah and we have evidence (Quran) the very existence of your Imam cannot be proven.

    Surah An-Nisa, Ayah 157-158:

    {157} "and for their saying, ‘We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the apostle of Allah’ —though they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but so it was made to appear to them. Indeed those who differ concerning him are surely in doubt about him: they do not have any knowledge of that beyond following conjectures, and certainly they did not kill him."

    {158} "Rather Allah raised him up toward Himself, and Allah is all-mighty, all-wise."

    If you want to draw a similarity between 'Isa (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) and your 12th Imam then bring me a verse about his occultation :)


  7. (Not to mention Sunnis' belief in the concept of a Mahdi as well anyway, so did they adopt it from the Zoroastrians as well?)

    Don't confuse Sunni beliefs with Shia beliefs brother, Sunni belief of the concept of Mahdi is that he is one of the minor signs of the Day of Judgement, whereas according to your beliefs he is a supernatural human being that has been alive for the past 1200 (give or take a few years) on this earth, unseen, unheard of and in 100% variance to the purpose of his existence anyway- to Guide us.


  8. "What do they tell you in your lectures and your mosques? That we worship stones and pray to a "biscuit", we put Imam Ali (a.s) in front of the prophet (pbuh), "

    I've been to so many lectures of so many different mosques and not a single one said anything about Shias, they don't really pay attention to Shias if you ask me. You don't put Ali K.A.W infront of the Prophet SAW but you put all your Imams infront of every other Prophet or almost all of them anyway.


  9. (salam)

    Can someone go to 23:25 onward and confirm that the lady shown there is meant to be Lady Fatima (sa):

    I think thats Abu Bakr (ra)'s daughter

    Arent you guys strictly against showing faces of sahaba? And i think some of you even go to the extent of calling it an act of kufr.

    Not Sahaba, the 10 promised paradise.

×
×
  • Create New...