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In the Name of God بسم الله

Kaniz e Zahra

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Kaniz e Zahra last won the day on December 11 2012

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  1. CHAPTER 28 THE BELIEF CONCERNING THE RECKONING (al-hisab) AND THE SCALES (al-mawazin ). 194 Says the Shaykh Abu Ja'far: Our belief concerning the reckoning (al-hisab) is that it is real. Some of it will be undertaken by Allah, the Mighty and Glorious, and some by His Proofs (the Imams). The reckoning of Prophets and Imams, on whom be peace, will be undertaken by Allah the Glorious and Mighty; while every Prophet will be entrusted with the reckoning of his wasi (vicegerent, representative). And the vicegerents (awsiya') will take the reckoning of the whole of their communities. Allah, who is Blessed and Exalted above all, will be witness for the prophets (anbiya') and apostles (rusul) ; and these (prophets and apostles) will be witnesses for the vicegerents (awsiya'). And the Imams will be witnesses for the people, and this is borne out by His saying: "But how (will it be with them) when We bring of every people a witness, and We bring thee (O Muhammad) as a witness against these?" [4, 41]. And Allah says: "Is he (to be counted equal with him) who relieth on a clear proof from his Lord, and a witness from Him reciteth 195 it" . . . [11, 17] . And the witness (here referred to) is the Prince of Believers, `Ali b. Abi Talib. And He says, Exalted is He: "Lo! Unto Us is their return, and Ours their reckoning" [88, 25-26]. And Imam Ja'far was asked concerning the saying of Allah, Exalted is He: "And We shall set a just balance for the Day of Resurrection so that no soul shall be wronged in aught" [21,47]. 196 He said the scales (or balance) are the Prophets and their vicegerents (awsiya'). Among men there will be some who will enter Paradise without a reckoning; 197 but every one will be questioned according to the saying of Allah: "Then verily We shall question those unto whom (Our message) hath been sent, and verily We shall question the messengers" [7, 6] , that is, concerning religion. Pg 69-70 A SHI`ITE CREED Now even Sheikh Sadooq(ra) is coming up with something similar to Sayed Ahmed al Shirazi(ha) in his al iteqadaat ul Imamia, now don't tell me ,he added something based on Dh'aeef sources as basis of Shia Creed, and beliefs. Quduma weren't complete anti thesis of mutakhireen, (though there were few difference as well when it comes to Aqaed), as it is usually portrayed. There are strongest Merits of Ahlulbayt, (as) written in their Books, which if written here without the name of author, people would certainly jump in to label it as ghuluw.
  2. How and where did Imam Ali, (as) learn to read and write? Kindly bring us the name of teachers? As for mutahree saying that is no hujjah when Prophet(saww) himself said so that ''I'' may write something, if He was going to dictate than any sahabi would have said let us write, moreover sunnis till now defend umar saying that he didn't want to trouble Prophet(saww) by letting Him write. And letters written by Prophet(saww) have no opinion that someone else wrote them since they had His signatures too. Why king of persia was enraged to see his name written above his. Poor bro pure ethics is always accused of referring to al islam but very same site become hujjah when needed, well let me quote biggest defender of sahw sh sadooq(ra) who only believed it to be by Allah and didn't believe in any minor sins which are errors obviously,he didn't believe they err frequently or voluntarily anyhow, as being advocated here on sc. That is what he says in his Shi'ite creed. Concerning Infallibility ('isma)1 Says the Shaykh Abu Ja'far: Our belief concerning the prophets(anbia')2, apostles (rusul), Imams and angels is that they are infallible (ma'sum); purified from all defilement (danas), and that they do not commit any sin, whether it be minor (saghira) or major (kabira). They do not disobey Allah in what He has commanded them; they act in accordance with His behests. He who denies infallibility to them in any matter appertaining to their status is ignorant of them, and such a one is a kafir (unbeliever).3 Awww, he calls such people ''kuffar'' who believe in even minor sins of them, :o :o do angels forget or err too? He puts them in same league. So Surah Abas' example means minor sin for sure, i guess sadooq(ra) got emotional here, btw usman was scolded in this Surah, how many Shia mufassireen share your view though?
  3. What does this Hadeeth posted by br ibn Hussein 'himself' told them..وَكَانَ ذَلِكَ مِنْ آدَمَ قَبْلَ النُّبُوَّةِ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ ذَلِكَ بِذَنْبٍ كَبِيرٍ اسْتَحَقَّ بِهِ دُخُولَ النَّارِ، وَإِنَّمَا كَانَ مِنَ الصَّغَائِرِ الْمَوْهُوبَةِ الَّتِي تَجُوزُ عَلَى الأَنْبِيَاءِ قَبْلَ نُزُولِ الْوَحْيِ عَلَيْهِمْ. فَلَمَّا اجْتَبَاهُ اللَّهُ وَجَعَلَهُ نَبِيّاً كَانَ مَعْصُوماً لا يُذْنِبُ صَغِيرَةً وَلا كَبِيرَةً. قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ: (وَعَصى‏ آدَمُ رَبَّهُ فَغَوى. ثُمَّ اجْتَباهُ رَبُّهُ فَتابَ عَلَيْهِ وَهَدى)‏ وَقَالَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ (إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفى‏ آدَمَ وَنُوحاً وَآلَ إِبْراهِيمَ وَآلَ عِمْرانَ عَلَى الْعالَمِينَ) This happened before Adam's Prophethood. It was not a major sin to make him deserve to enter the Fire. But it was a minor sin which God forgives. Such sins are also permitted for the Prophets before their appointment. Once God appointed Muhammad (s) to Prophethood, he became innocent and did not commit any minor or major sins. God says, ‘... Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allowed himself to be seduced. But his Lord chose him (for His Grace): He turned to him, and gave him guidance.’ God also says, ‘God did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran above all people.’” Doesn't it prove they were free from even minor errors which previous Prophets(as) had. But no ,such narrations aren't deemed academic, only those lowering their stature. BTW He(saww) knew how to read and write, what were they doing with contract of Hudaybiya? What was written to non muslims kings with His signature? Why He(saww) asked pen and paper on death bed? its very well known incident, but i am sure these proven facts are all emotional rhetoric on our part, brother pure ethics.
  4. Salam brother dabeast 313, here are the scholars who have mentioned it in Shia sources Sh Mufeed(ra) in al irshad says ''that Imam Ali(as) was born inside masjid ul Haraam on 13th rajab ,30 aam ul feel, and no one before or After Ali(as) will be born inside Kaaba'' Vol 1. pg 5 Sh sadooq(ra) in amali ,80 Ibne shehr ashoob(ra) in al manaqib 360 Syed ibne taoos(ra) in misbah ul zair Allama hilli(ra)in kashaf ul yaqeen 5(published in iran) and kashaf ul haq 109 Abul Hasan bin Esa irbili(ra) kashaf ul ghumma 19 Abul fateh al karajaki in kunz al fawaed 115 Shreef Razi(ra) in khasaes ul Aimma(as) Al tabarasi(ra) in alaam ul wara 92 Allama Majlisi(ra) in jila ul ayoon pg 272 vol 1 (urdu trans) writes that ''ibne babwya(ra), Sh tusi(ra), and Allama Hilli(ra) has mentioned this incident through mutwaatir narrations'' and then narrate the details So kulayni(ra) not mentioning it is no argument, its indeed an established fact from both Shia and sunni sources, and a mu[Edited Out]tar one, these were all pioneers of Shi'ism mwntioned above
  5. ^Yes panzer saying that daughter of Imam Hussain, (as) had parties, husbands, danced nauzbillah and yet it was ''academic'' for you, and i am emotional. Ay sistani(ha) declared all such non sense as propaganda of enemies, he must be another emotional old guy for you. Well i am proud to be emotional for honor of Ahlebait, (as), which you certainly don't care for.I am pretty aware with your views, and its hallmark of your likes to call anything degrading for Ahlebait, (as) as academic.I share views of many maraaji so they are emotional too, because anything contradictory to your agendas is ''emotional''Throughout this thread you kept ridiculing brother pure ethics too, like you have become an overnight marja then you attacked me so you needed an essay,when you don't know anything about me so better keep your views to yourself, i am not bro pure ethics who'' calmly tolerated your insults.And we know well how many scholars for dollars exist there in west, don't act that innocent. And which buttons were pushed on your side that you came back after declaring your last post?Something must be burnt The one who has no word has no Deen :p itni fazooliyaat likhne k baad tum nae thukkay so you are no way entitle to ask me this, lgta hy apke ghar ki khwateen cigarettes peeti hayn tbhee hr khatoon se poochne ka shoq hy :D go play with panzer and spare efforts of degrading Ahlebait, (as) ,their status won't be moved an iota with your breaking your hands all the day. :D P.S express these views outside SC and madressah and you'll receive many different forms of ''likes'', i assure you. BTW Who is ''us'' your fellow muqassireen? i don't come here for your jahiliya so spare me from your advisory service and i am not a 'baji' of one 35 plus old guy :P
  6. As for your personal attack on me, fyi yes i am Pakistani and Alhumdulillah proud of being 1st class citizen here instead of being 3rd class in US, or Canada. But i never did any 'zakireee' as your flawed feelings similar to your flawed reasoning told you. Alhumdulillah i have much better worldly prospects before me so no need to become a 'mullah' like you ,neither a charlatan Zakira anyhow. I also have a feeling about you, that you only joined Hawza to strengthen your preconceived notions whose expressions i had seen well before you went there even So certainly you didn't go there to learn but to find things to compliment your mindset. BTW Being in Hawza shouldn't license such arrogance as we have seen throngs of stupid graduates coming out from there. There were 'many' emama posh scholars kept coming to my father to expect some aid for this purpose, or that. Either they spend their lives on 'sadqaat' or heavy fees for Majaalis. They behave before my influential family members like some subservient people, so no need to brag about being there before me, only your like minded ones can be impressed with you, i have seen many, and quite familiar with their i.q and how any third divisional from Pak can get into Hawzas easily. May Allah forgive me, but sometimes people force to speak some bitter truths. Sorry but i just wanting to say that. BTW I have seen many personal attacks ,and even insults for my family from cranky Shiachatters around, it doesn't effect me, since it only shows your upbringing, and i can understand when one is left with nothing else ,his/her frustration lead them to resort to personal attacks. I know you'll become restless to come back again or either will send some 'representative' of yours, because you are arguing for satisfying your ego, since whenever you see the topic is no more being discussed, you want to end it up on your note. Next time, be precise and to the point, i am not interested in reading and writing booklets with oft repeated, unnecessary details of same thing.
  7. This happened before Adam's Prophethood. It was not a major sin to make him deserve to enter the Fire. But it was a minor sin which God forgives. Such sins are also permitted for the Prophets before their appointment. Once God appointed Muhammad (s) to Prophethood, he became innocent and did not commit any minor or major sins. God says, ‘... Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allowed himself to be seduced. But his Lord chose him (for His Grace): He turned to him, and gave him guidance.’ God also says, ‘God did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of Imran above all people.’” By quoting this tradition, you have shattered your own booklet long arguments, it clearly make comparisons that once Prophet Muhammad(saww) was appointed He didn't commit any major on minor sins like those of Adam(as) and other Prophets(as), since they were allowed for them but not for Him. It clearly proves that He(saww) didn't even have turk e awla let alone forgetting inshAllah and getting punished for 40 days?..Then you wonder how these can be resulted from taqqiyah, why? When Aimmah,(as) themselves told us when you find two opposing things, then leave those being matched with aama, then these ''erroneous'' narrations are all, what they have. Then you again and again bring an argument that ''companions had no issues with that'', then you say ashaab e Rasool(saww) were general companions, they were special. Very funny speculations this is, Aimma,(as) are not superior than Prophet(saww) when majority of His companions were misled then who guaranteed Ismaah of companions? You can't believe they could err yet Aimma(as) could nauzbillah?..No one said Ghadeer wasn't believed by companions but it wasn't believed in a way as we do, then sunnis are justified in asking as per your standards that how could 124,000 companions misled, are you kidding us? With this attitude ,you are no better than them. umar called Him hallucinating nauzbillah yet millions of sunnis have no problems with it, so why should we care that they have no problems with sahw? Are these arguments seriously?... And saying this scholar believed it, or that believed it, were they not aware of these concepts ,then i ask you the scholar you have in your display, Ay khoei(ra) ,did he believe in sahw? Do Sh Waheed khurasani(ha) Syed Sadiq rohani(ha) Syed Sadiq shirazee(ha) Musa shubairi zanjani(ha) Syed sistani(ha) and list is endless believe in sahw? The answer is big NO. If that qualifies as an argument for you, then i may ask you were all of them oblivious of gradings, narrators, everything etc? You by virtue of being in Hawza since 6 months or so, supersede them all? There is a minority who agree with your points, majority disagree so all are of them ignorant? I am not interested in replying each and every paragraph of this tustari's risalah, in this way even i can quote Ay Jawaz tabrizi(ra) 's adam e sahw e Nabi(saww) which calls all such narrations muztarib ul matan, but i have other things to do in life, can't write booklets to convince stubborn people. And when you say they couldn't be misguided in telling Religious decrees whereas could be mistaken in daily matters, then Yousaf(as) not standing up was also a daily matter not a religious ruling, why was he punished then? BTW Where is the narration telling they could be mistaken in this,and couldn't be in that? If a University professor makes mistake at home, he may make it in lecture too, otherwise its not bashariyyut ,it robotic. And you make qiyaas by saying that couldn't be done in religious rulings, if you believe they erred then it could be anywhere, who knows which of your worship is correct then? God didn't communicate with you directly to affirm that. And you write unnecessary details missing all of my questions almost, Why was Rudd e Shams needed? And that is even twice when missing a prayer is normal thing? They could offer a qaza if they had it before? And these are authentic narrations too, one of them quoted by sunnis as well. Why was Adam(as)'s name missing among eight bearers of Arsh(ilm e Illahi), if everyone makes mistakes? Making mistakes would have meant flaw in divine knowledge then. As for Allah making them err, or forget is very senseless not casting doubt on Risalaah but on Adal e Illahi even more important principle of Faith, If there is a teacher who has 4 students, he punishes 3 for making mistakes but make fourth one to err Himself, who will call him a just teacher? You expect God to discriminate? And why Imam e Zamana(as) called one maloon for delaying prayer of fajr, and maghrib if we already had such Rehmat? Then you ask why would such traditions come in taqqiyah? Tell us why such narrations exist in our sources telling Adam(as) married his kids among themselves, and another ones showing Aimmah(as) enraged on such concepts? Which ones are we to take? Why was taqqiyah needed in such things? Those scholars who call these narrations taqqiyah are not stupid they know better than you. You just pick and choose things which suit you like you picked and choose from my posts. Your posted narration itself proves that our Prophet(saww) was different in making error things from previous Prophets(as), let alone getting punished, because one only gets punished for either major, or minor sins, when they are protected from these, there is no point of basing one's Aqeedah on flawed theories.
  8. He didn't like them to do what He compelled some to do,they couldn't make voluntary mistakes but enforced ones. okay fine, lets agree to disagree.Wassalam.
  9. Brother, He(saww) was a Prophet(saww) not a layman, who could be so negligent of His obligations. If waking up had been so hard ,Allah won't have made it incumbent upon every Muslim. Everyone will use same excuses that we didn't know its fajr time after reading this narration, Why would Allah encourage others to take it easy? I know we unintentionally miss it at times but we don't posses our nufoos as they did. Imam Ali, (as) said that ''He loved two worships most, fajr in winters and fasting in summers''. You know how hard are both, and none of our Aimma, (as) ever missed morning prayers. How could Prophet(saww) miss it? They had full control over their nafoos ,none of the comforts could sway them.When hardships of Karbala couldn't make them miss Salaat, can you ,or me offer prayers in scorching heat, with hundreds of wounds ,with head getting slaughtered in Sajda and yet not giving up prayers? No, we can't and we won't be held accountable if we can't but they were most sublime worshipers. Then if you say Allah made Him sleep as a lesson for us, then why was He angry with other Prophets(as) for leaving just a preferred act ,when He Himself made best of His Prophets miss an obligation? And why would He make Him err to teach others? Then why not other errors? Why would He made Him do that? Couldn't a slave or a companion be taken as example, if He were to show Him as bashar then there was no point in expelling Adam(as) from jannah since its very human to get trapped in allures ,why he suffered for his basharyiat? These turk e awla incidents of other Prophets(as) show He didn't want to see them err, or fall for material allure of any kind then its beyond His Divinity to make another Prophet fall for comforts of bed. That is why Ay Jawad Tabrizi(ra) called these narrations ''muztarib ul matan'' since they don't make sense.
  10. Brother i am not saying that Allah is compelling them to do, that is what others said for sehw, and missing prayers thing, i was just posing it as a hypothetical question, now got it?...Those narrations about missing prayers say that it was blessing from Allah so when Allah doesn't like turk e awla and punish Prophets then why would He make any of the Prophet(saww) sleep and miss waajib prayers so anyone deliberately miss it and take it as an excuse?..As i said above ,i don't have issues with previous Prophets having turk e awla instances but that can't be said for Last Prophet(saww) and Aimma, (as). Since Allah never got enraged with them, whereas He did with previous ones at times. Every power is in Allah's hands ,but human beings are conferred with some freewill, waking up for fajr is in our hands ,if it wasn't then why Imam e Zamana, (as) said that one who delays fajr is maloon, read this in bihar.
  11. BTW I don't have issues with turk e awla from previous Prophets, but whenever they did one, they were punished, which shows that Allah doesn't even want to see turk e awla in his Prophets on the name of bashariyyut let alone will compel them to err or miss prayers. These turk e awla incidents negate the whole theory of sehw.The best Of Men(saww) never even had turk e Awla let alone missing obligations even that by will of God, who didn't tolerate Yousaf(as)'s delay or Adam(as)'s eating fruit.
  12. I wrote very clearly, such analogies will bring in such confusing deductions. You say it was turk e awla, ok but he was punished for that, you don't say he was compelled to do turk e awla by Allah to show him as bashar and it was a blessing.The argument used for sehw e Nabi(saww)is that it was from God that He missed prayers etc. Why would He make one Prophet err and penalize others for erring. Something against the justice of God. Why didn't he appreciate Yousaf(as) that he proved himself bashar by making errors. Because you people believe He made our last Prophet(saww) err nauzbillah. Punishing other Prophets prove that He doesn't want them to do even turk e awla let alone missing wajibaat Ay makarem shirazee and some other scholars consider these narrations coming from sunni side ,not consistent with our beliefs.
  13. ^Our scholars have discussed such narrations at length, and rejected that Prophets(as) could act this way.Anyways, suppose if it happened then he was punished for ''error'' not that error was glorified , declared a blessing, or that Allah is one compelling him to do so, very irrelevant example ,and doesn't prove sehw or missing prayer argument anyways.Yousaf, (as) should have been applauded for his bashree behavior since every Prophet needs to exhibit some 'bashree' errors otherwise God compel him to do one, but if he does it on his own then He punishes him,because its Divine task to make them err nauzbillah, they can't err on their own, how funny arguments these are btw. Previous Divine books were altered so you believe in tehreef e Quran too that means.
  14. Brother pure ethics, you are hitting your head against the wall. People here will keep considering their ideas as ''intellectual'' and others heretical no matter how many arguments you give, or how many ulema e haq supported them, its beyond their westernized notion of rationality. Missing waajib prayer is no flaw, or imperfection for them but they won't mind telling how eating fruit was so big a flaw that a Prophet (as) had to be thrown out of the Heaven, naked, separated from his wife. They won't mind telling why Sun returned twice so a Masoom,(as)'s prayer may not be missed, when missing them is no imperfection. The Man,(saww) whose Grandson, (as) got slaughtered while offering Salaat missed His Salaat in comfort of his bedding, whose Grand Daughter, (as) didn't even miss Tahajjud on the bare back of Camel with hands tied against neck. Its beyond their understanding, and a fun stock, because they are unwilling to review what they are set to believe.They can't believe that ashaab or sh sadooq could err in their understandings but Infallibles,(as) could nauzbillah. Because people demand others to act as ''learners'' so they may act as teachers, with their know-it-all attitude. Ridicule and mockery has nothing to do with ikhlaq e Ahlebait, (as) or even ikhlaq e ulema.
  15. Some people has said that turk e awla is sugary coating for mistake. Ok, for the sake of argument, fine but then why Allah dispelled Adam(as) and Eve(as) from Jannah for one tiny, ''basharee'' mistake? Missing Fajr ,which is much ''graver'' a mistake is, than eating a fruit from a tree, that should be made sunnah whereas Adam(as) had to suffer grave consequences. In fact you people have pre conceived notions, in order to prove them you can make justice of God looks suspicious. Many of our scholars believe Ahlebait, (as) are protected from turk e awla even, so if that is an argument that who believed what ,then deniers of sehw among ulema easily outnumber handful of its believers.I posted one Hadeeth on previous page in which bearers of Divine knowledge were mentioned from Noah, (as) to Aimma, (as). Adam(as)'s name wasn't there, just he made one turk e awla, how can the best of those 8 missed their wajibaat? That would be like finding a fault with knowledge given by Allah. These are the most silliest arguments that Allah made them err, when He penalized other Prophets(as) for committing ''errors''. Even if we buy your arguments ,lets call turk e awla an error but they used to be punished for them, Allah isn't school teacher who'll do favoritism while punishing some students and freeing others. Ironically He made them err, whereas get enraged for similar bashree elements in other Prophets. As for, ashaab e Aimma, (as) didn't have issues with these and things evolve with time, and Deen is changed etc argument, then even majority of ashaab e Rasool(saww) had doubts on many things which we keep dear, its just like a sunni argument how could majority of ashaab go wrong? Ashaab couldn't err in their understandings whereas Infallibles(as) could nauzbillah.Umar cast a doubt on His sanity so why have issues with him? Majority of ashaab ,as per sunnis didn't take Ghadeer as what Shias take ,then by this methodology everyone using it here should convert?... As for these traditions are authentic then those traditions where Sun was brought back twice are also authentic ,why was it needed to change the course of nature if missing prayers is just a normal, routine, bashree thing? Our Aimma, (as) has given us method to verify which traditions can be taqqiyah based, those which match with Aaama(sunnis). These sehw, error things are perfectly matched with them, for example we have Ahadeeth telling marriage between siblings was strictly forbidden since Adam(as) yet we have narrations telling that Adam(as)'s children married among themselves. So? Which ones are we going to take? Ofcourse former since latter is view held by aama. People are arguing here for the sake of arguing, and because they are too stubborn to review these views so they blame others for preconceived notions. BTW None of the traditions say that we can err in daily life but not in telling Religious rulings if you believe in their errors then you have to believe that no one knows where else in Deen they erred (nauzbillah). Because basharee demands don't discriminate ,if a teacher can forget at home, he may forget at university too. Otherwise that won't be bashree that would be robotic.Their daily lives weren't separate from Deen.
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