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In the Name of God بسم الله

khamosh21

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  1. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from iCenozoic in Did Islam/religion always exist?   
    Muslims opposition to evolution appears to be very similar to christians opposition to galileo and science in the middle ages.
    the evidence for evolution being the way creation came about is overwhelming. evolution can be seen in the formation of stars, planets, mountains, rivers etc. Nothing just snapped into existence, we can see everything goes through a process. we just don't see animals or other existing things popping into existence.
    some muslims who accept the evolution say it is "guided" evolution i.e it's the process God used to bring about living beings.
  2. Completely Agree
    khamosh21 got a reaction from theEndIsNear in Why Does Evil Exist? (Seyyed Hossein Nasr) 4 min   
    If i were to explain the above, I would say that everything God has created is good, as long as it's used as it is supposed to be within limits. For example, food is good, but too much food can lead to bad health. Lust is good as it helps with reproduction of species and marriage, but lust is really bad when used for rape etc. Anger is good when used within it's limit. So there really is nothing that is inherently "evil", it is the misuse of it which makes it bad.
    So I don't have any issues with above argument.
    I get really stuck when I start thinking about why God has allowed misuse of things to this disagree, why He wanted to test creation etc. For example if we all had varying degrees of direct divine knowledge, let's say we were all at the levels (or sublevels) of Prophets/Imams (who also had free will), we could create a perfect world. You might say where would be the challenge or test in that, everything would be perfect... what's wrong with everything being perfect? Why God created an imperfect creation so that they perfect themselves through free will?
  3. Completely Agree
    khamosh21 got a reaction from TheAnticipator12 in Did Islam/religion always exist?   
    Muslims opposition to evolution appears to be very similar to christians opposition to galileo and science in the middle ages.
    the evidence for evolution being the way creation came about is overwhelming. evolution can be seen in the formation of stars, planets, mountains, rivers etc. Nothing just snapped into existence, we can see everything goes through a process. we just don't see animals or other existing things popping into existence.
    some muslims who accept the evolution say it is "guided" evolution i.e it's the process God used to bring about living beings.
  4. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Zainuu in Did Islam/religion always exist?   
    Muslims opposition to evolution appears to be very similar to christians opposition to galileo and science in the middle ages.
    the evidence for evolution being the way creation came about is overwhelming. evolution can be seen in the formation of stars, planets, mountains, rivers etc. Nothing just snapped into existence, we can see everything goes through a process. we just don't see animals or other existing things popping into existence.
    some muslims who accept the evolution say it is "guided" evolution i.e it's the process God used to bring about living beings.
  5. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Nightclaw in Why disbelief in The Creator is contrary to logic and reasoning.   
    feeling the rapport between us... will iA reply when i have time...
  6. Disagree
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Eddie Mecca in Why Does Evil Exist? (Seyyed Hossein Nasr) 4 min   
    This is the beauty of the Quran, you can interpret it however you like to suit your argument... you can't lose!
  7. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Eddie Mecca in Why Does Evil Exist? (Seyyed Hossein Nasr) 4 min   
    If i were to explain the above, I would say that everything God has created is good, as long as it's used as it is supposed to be within limits. For example, food is good, but too much food can lead to bad health. Lust is good as it helps with reproduction of species and marriage, but lust is really bad when used for rape etc. Anger is good when used within it's limit. So there really is nothing that is inherently "evil", it is the misuse of it which makes it bad.
    So I don't have any issues with above argument.
    I get really stuck when I start thinking about why God has allowed misuse of things to this disagree, why He wanted to test creation etc. For example if we all had varying degrees of direct divine knowledge, let's say we were all at the levels (or sublevels) of Prophets/Imams (who also had free will), we could create a perfect world. You might say where would be the challenge or test in that, everything would be perfect... what's wrong with everything being perfect? Why God created an imperfect creation so that they perfect themselves through free will?
  8. Sad
    khamosh21 got a reaction from azizaliallah in Petitio Principii (Circular Reasoning)   
    Also i think you are getting confused with the word "circle" here. This is just a name given to a type of fallacy (a fallacy is a contradiction). We are not literally referring to the shape. so we have no issues with circles in geometry etc. 
    Here is another example that some christians use.
    Q: How do you know God exists?
    A: Because the Bible says He does.
    Q: How do you know the bible is correct?
    A: Because God said it's correct.
     
     
  9. Haha
    khamosh21 got a reaction from azizaliallah in Petitio Principii (Circular Reasoning)   
    i am the accused brother here lol...
    bro i'm sorry if my messages caused any kind of offence, and sure maybe i was wrong... so no worries, i also want to learn.
    please understand what circular reasoning is. here is an example, this is a direct quote from Trump;
    "The news is fake because so much of the news is fake."
    This sentence does not explain why the news is fake, thus it is a logical fallacy i.e. does not makes sense, our aql doesn't accept this, it needs more evidence or reasoning.
    When you talk about, waking and sleeping, or eating and hunger, these are cyclical states we go through, they are describing the state of something - it is not related to reasoning or aql.
    Does this help?
  10. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Ashvazdanghe in Keep getting harassed and told to get a mortgage   
    The problem can be resolved by turning to Islamic economics... which practically no one has any knowledge of... in short creating your own banking system and creating a network of businesses that can fund such projects for our communities. It can be resolved by creating real wealth (not interest based wealth)... in short it means creating islamic societies and civilization, focusing on long term solutions... freeing ourselves modern day slavery and current day firons... 
    the above what you have written is just a vicious cycle, where the "house" always wins... there is no long term holistic solution.
  11. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Caroling in The Problems with Satan and God’s 'Misguidance'   
    @starlight @Caroling @Logic1234
    thanks for replies, i don't see any new arguments to respond, feel like i have addressed those points... if you are satisfied with these arguments, that's great for you, wish you all success
  12. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Ali bin Hussein in Why disbelief in The Creator is contrary to logic and reasoning.   
    where'd you go brother? hope all is well.
    a point about above, imagine if hindus made the above point, just replace Allah with Ganesh or anyone of their greater Gods..  the argument doesn't really hold.
  13. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from starlight in The Problems with Satan and God’s 'Misguidance'   
    @starlight @Caroling @Logic1234
    thanks for replies, i don't see any new arguments to respond, feel like i have addressed those points... if you are satisfied with these arguments, that's great for you, wish you all success
  14. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Ashvazdanghe in Keep getting harassed and told to get a mortgage   
    let's look at IRI... maybe 50 years agoa revolution appeared impossible, yet it happened. it may not be possible in your life time, but what about next generations? can't just give up and accept things as they are.
    also Ayt Khamenie himself has stated that they have not even achieved an Islamic govt, that they are working towards it... at least they are working on a long term plan and vision that tries to better the situation... what's your/our plan?  
  15. Completely Agree
    khamosh21 got a reaction from AliTanjiro in Keep getting harassed and told to get a mortgage   
    People usually quote a fatwa from Ayt Sistani*... which to me never made sense. They present taking loans/interest from foreign kuffar banks as some kind of harm being caused to these countries, when in reality their entire banking system is built on lending, so in reality you're just helping them. so yea i agree with you.
    https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01220/
  16. Haha
    khamosh21 got a reaction from AbdusSibtayn in Capitalizing on Ignorance - Part 2   
    Similar to the thread previous to this, I will start by stating the pattern that I’m seeing emerging is Islamic arguments are primarily based on “arguments from ignorance” combined with something that we have some understanding of. Here I use the concept of supplications to explain my point.

    An easier way to explain what I’m saying is to take the idea of earthquakes. Before we understood why earthquakes occur, we would say it’s God’s punishment. Specially in the past if towns/cities were destroyed by earthquakes, the reason would be because God punished them for some wrong they were doing (and most people are doing something evil in every town, so it becomes even easier to blame them). If not punishment we assign the label of a “test”. Today we understand that earthquakes occur due to movement of plates, and occur regardless of people being good or bad. Similarly religion attempts to provide reasons and rationalizations for evil/suffering to help us feel better… normally ignoring the actual causes behind it.

    Here is another example. Imagine 2 people, an atheist and born muslim. Both go to the same school and become really good friends. Both of them like similar subjects, they excel in their studies and both apply to the same medical schools to become doctors. The Muslim supplicates and prays to get admitted. His parents tell him to read ziarat Ashura and salatul layl, they tell him he should say a nazr that he will go for ziarat if his wishes are accepted by God, and so on. He does some of this and eventually he does get admitted to medical school. He feels that God accepted his prayers, and thus he continues with these ziarats and prayers, hoping for material as well as rewards in the hereafter.

    The atheist friend also gets admitted into medical school. The reason why both get admitted to medical school is that they were both excellent students that worked hard and met the requirements of the school. There was no correlation to the ziarats and prayers… however since religion relies so heavily on arguments from ignorance, we start thinking our prayers have some type of powers. We ignore the actual causes and effects, and attribute them to supernatural causes because we “believe” and don’t actually “know”.

    In the above example a number of combinations could have been derived. Suppose the muslim didn’t get admitted because he didn’t meet the requirements, or there wasn’t enough space in the school, or the admission director is racist, etc, whatever the cause… if he were to ask why God didn’t accept his prayers, just to make him feel better, he would be given other justifications such as it wasn’t the best for you, God knows better, everything happens for the best… when in reality the causes and effects are not supernatural. Just like an earthquake.

    Let’s simplify it even further. Suppose I flip a coin and pray it lands on heads every time. Naturally roughly around 50% of time, my prayer will work and won’t work. With prayers we are normally already working towards the goal we are praying for, so chances increase that the goal may be achieved (and prayer is “answered”). However the atheist that never prays has the same chances to attain their goals, without the use of repetitive Arabic phrases, because the underlying cause and effect at work is not connected to the prayer. If it is connected, how would you prove it?

  17. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Eddie Mecca in Did Islam/religion always exist?   
    Muslims opposition to evolution appears to be very similar to christians opposition to galileo and science in the middle ages.
    the evidence for evolution being the way creation came about is overwhelming. evolution can be seen in the formation of stars, planets, mountains, rivers etc. Nothing just snapped into existence, we can see everything goes through a process. we just don't see animals or other existing things popping into existence.
    some muslims who accept the evolution say it is "guided" evolution i.e it's the process God used to bring about living beings.
  18. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Shahrukh K in Why disbelief in The Creator is contrary to logic and reasoning.   
    This is how I understand the above.

    We do not know how the universe, creation, existence, whatever we and other things are in existence, and how they came about or what there was before.

    I agree that infinite regression seems fairly illogical considering how we perceive and understand reality. However I would argue just as believers argue that God is beyond understanding or explanation at times, similarly the existence of the universe is also beyond our current understanding and ability to explain existence. We don’t understand how time, light, gravity, space, how any of this works… neither science or religion has any type of satisfactory answers.  

    Since we don’t know how existence came about, I am unable to jump to the conclusion that there is a necessary being, specially the way God is described in Islam. Yes there is some cause. Additionally for the sake of argument I’ll accept there is some type of necessary being… however this is only one part of the puzzle. For me the problem lies in how this one part of the puzzle fits with the rest of religion… what we are told about the purpose of life vs what life is like in reality. How God is described vs what has happened in history. Please note that I have read the Quran repeatedly since I was a kid, with translation, and I also have some basic grasp of Arabic grammar and vocab… despite being familiar with the Quran, it hasn’t quenched my questions/issues.

    Since I have not seen the Prophet or anyone of that calibre, I have not met anyone that can actually directly contact the divine or have access to the unseen or knowledge the Prophet had… I find it extremely difficult to accept the word of “scholars”, historians, and books about the events that took place. I find it difficult to believe in the stories of saints and similar people, there is nothing like that I have experienced in my life. Additionally I see the pattern of ascribing supernatural abilities among practically every religion and sect till this day, with not a single person being able to come forth and prove such things. I am unable to directly question someone like the Prophet like the people of his time did. So I am left with the dilemma of neither being able to accept the message of Islam nor being able to completely deny it...

    Pascal's wager is really not all helpful for me, it has been brought up repeatedly in many threads several times over.


  19. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Shahrukh K in Atheists, I want to know why you believe in what you believe in.   
    "According to tradition Krishna belonged to the Yadava - a pastoral race - and the god’s birth is picturesquely described in the Mahabharata. One day Vishnu, the great Hindu god pulled two hairs from his own head, one white and one black. The black hair was planted into the womb of Devaki, a princess of the city of Mathura, and so Krishna was born into the Pandava family, his earthly father being Vasudeva. Unfortunately for Krishna his mother’s brother, Kamsa, had been warned that Devaki’s eighth child would kill him, and so Kamsa determined to murder the eighth child, a crime he had already carried out seven times before Krishna was born. Fortunately, Vasudeva took the precaution of hiding Krishna in the remote village of Vrindavana where the boy was brought up as a simple cowherd (in this guise he can be referred to as Govinda). There he spent an idyllic childhood and stirred the hearts of many gopis or herd-women with his dark good looks, playful charm, and mastery of music and dance."
     
    yes this sounds just like moses 
  20. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Shahrukh K in Atheists, I want to know why you believe in what you believe in.   
    look the claim made by you was Islam is pluralistic and inclusive of othe known prophets. now for whatever reasons, even if they are valid reasons such as limitation of Prophet being among arabs... we can see that Quran is regionally centric and the pluralism you claim is also only regional pluralism...
    (i have read bhagva gita)
  21. Thanks
    khamosh21 got a reaction from PureExistence1 in Atheists, I want to know why you believe in what you believe in.   
    I am not an atheist, but getting quite close to it... I was born shia Muslim in a practicing family, was fairly practicing myself, but roughly 5 6 years ago I started having many doubts.
    I do not consider atheism a religion or set of beliefs. My problem is with being forced to believe in the imaginary. I don't ask to be able to see God, I understand He can't be seen. My primary issue is in having to "believe" in everything that falls under the category of unseen "angels, jinn, heaven, hell, barzakh, reality of actions, soul... etc".
    The China example isn't that bad actually. In reality China does not exist, I do not believe in the country of China. China is an imaginary man made concept - what exists is a piece of land that humans have agreed to call China and set up artificial borders. Seen from above earth, one would just see land, mountains etc. But since it is helpful to have this artificially made "country" - we all go along with it.
    Take death as an example... the evidence that our time of death is "written" or fixed time is imaginary just as much as China. Life expectancy and statistics are correlated to many things. Our deaths can be a result of a number of factors including genes, quality of life, medicine, exercise etc. However to help people feel good about deaths, we need to imagine there is fixed time for all of us. So like China, it helps to buy into these beliefs.
    I've discussed my issues with religion many times over on this forum, I'll just refer you to this post as a summary:
    https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235068594-atheism/?do=findComment&comment=3319159
     
     
     
     
  22. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from eThErEaL in Atheists, I want to know why you believe in what you believe in.   
    and yes I have to assume that reality/existence has always existed and will always continue to exist... how or what this reality is... i don't know and don't know if it can even be put into words that could be understood... i feel like an ant trying to understand the world around it...
  23. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Shahrukh K in Atheists, I want to know why you believe in what you believe in.   
    alright... i haven't been able to stop thinking about this guy's analysis...  barely was able to sleep... so help me understand this... there is SOMETHING there that we are able to perceive... our mind interprets that something as different objects, or in other words our mind assigns meaning to that something like we assign meaning to China?...
    however he also says and i think you said our mind constructs reality, if we are not looking at something it stops existing... however there has to be something there for our mind to interpret it, has to have been there from before.
    also what is "consciousness" how is it defined... 
  24. My Prayers
    khamosh21 got a reaction from Hameedeh in The Problems with Satan and God’s 'Misguidance'   
    I have a ton of problems with satan and with God’s willingness to misguide people and sincerely hoping someone can correct my understanding. This is one of the reasons I have lost faith in Islam and God.
    It is reported that satan worshipped God for thousands of years. He attained a very close position to God where he was ranked among the angels. Eventually his downfall came to due to arrogance and pride when asked to bow to Hazrat Adam. So few questions about this:
    1. For someone that has worshipped God for thousands of years and attained such nearness, how did satan manage to do this with pride and arrogance in his heart? One would think that you would need to be become jinn-e-kamil (like insan kamil) to attain such a high position with God. If getting so near to God doesn't guarantee guidance and salvation, than what does?
    a. If the answer is that initially he didn’t have this pride in him, it came out when he was asked to bow down to Adam, does this mean than that thousands of years of worship and nearness to God STILL didn’t manage to purify satan?
    2. Why has God allowed him to misguide us. All the time we hear this world is a test, it is like giving an exam. Using the same analogy, imagine a school where apart from the teacher teaching the students, there is another invisible teacher going around purposely misguiding people… how is this fair? Would anyone in their right mind consider going to such a school?
    3. It is said that God misguides those that want to be misguided… why? Why does God go out of His way, use satan, to misguide people that want it? Wouldn’t it be better to leave misguided people as they are rather than adding to their misguidance?
    4. Just how weak was Hazrat Adam that he so easily got fooled by satan? I mean he’s supposed to be a PROPHET of God, what the heck happened there? Even if we offer intepretions and say that he didn’t commit a mistake or a sin, the fact remains that satan was able to misguide him.  
    5. How does satan fit into the purpose of creating mankind?
  25. Like
    khamosh21 got a reaction from PureExistence1 in Atheists, I want to know why you believe in what you believe in.   
    alright... i haven't been able to stop thinking about this guy's analysis...  barely was able to sleep... so help me understand this... there is SOMETHING there that we are able to perceive... our mind interprets that something as different objects, or in other words our mind assigns meaning to that something like we assign meaning to China?...
    however he also says and i think you said our mind constructs reality, if we are not looking at something it stops existing... however there has to be something there for our mind to interpret it, has to have been there from before.
    also what is "consciousness" how is it defined... 
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