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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz

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  1. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ali al-Abdullah in Mukthar Al Thaqafi   
    Mutawaitr?
     
     
    You think just because you claim something is tawatur that it proves anything? There are many conditions for something tawatur to be accepted....
     
    1- Many of the thiqaat in the sunni rijal system was bias in giving tawtheeq as it was more then demonstrated in the past, for example even the killer of hussayn 3layhi salam is given tawtheeq in your system.
     
    2- The early period during the chains of your ahadeeth were not written down, and most of them even including what is considered sahih had tadlees as admitted by the sunni muhadtheen. For example a mudallas 2nd generation person from the salaf was acceptable if they did tadlees to a companion to all except shafi'i.
     
    3-  Most if not all of your "tawatur" ahadeeth only become tawatur in later generations.
     
    4- The type of "tawatur" your claiming is in meaning, which would be ok and strong however many of the ahad chains would still have to be sahih with many shawaahid, unfortunately your madhab has many problems that do not allow this to be acceptable.

    5- There are different types of tawatur of meaning, khaas and 3aam. For example if the same wording is tawatur then it is khaas, but if the general idea is only tawatur then it is 3aam. The other type of tawatur is a hadith being said by a masum in the same scenario, same time, all in font of a group of people hearing the words and relating the same khaas meaning to the next group of people, an example of this would be ghadeer khum. 
  2. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Abraram in Imam Khamenei: Insulting Symbols Of Sunni Brother   
    What a nice fatwa btw lanatullah on Fulan and Fulan and Fulana,Khalid,yazeed,muawiyah,Abu Lahab,Abu sufyan,banu umayya in general.
  3. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Muslim2010 in 1400 Years Of Deception - The Two Weighty Things!   
    Actually,you only have 1 hadith that is sahih that mentions my qur'an and sunnah and that is found in al mustadarak,also the version "my qur'an and sunnah" are not even in the sihah sittah. (dawud,majah,bukhari,muslim,nisai'i,and tirmidhi). Not to mention that even that one hadith in al mustadarak is debatable.
    Your scholars have admitted as well as many laymen on sunniforum.com as well as [URL Edited] that the version "my qur'an and ahlul bayt" is the stronger version and has much more isnads,as well as a stronger basis.
    Also the version "my qur'an and ahlul bayt" are found in sihah sittah,not so the qur'an/sunnah version.
    Ok,so you're showing us that the shia follow the sunnah of the prophet SAW?
    We do indeed follow the sunnah of the prophet SAW,the difference is we take the sunnah/aqai'd from ahlul bayt (as).
    You showing us a hadith that tells us to follow the sunnah is like us showing you a hadith that says to follow abu bakr,you are preaching to the quire.
  4. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Muslim2010 in 1400 Years Of Deception - The Two Weighty Things!   
    The chains found in Mishkat al masabih, Kinzul Ummal, and Muwatta are marfu3 and don't even have a chain to the prophet,and are daeef.
    The chains found with bayhaqi has ibn abi uways (he makes mistakes) and his father (who is maqbul). The chain is daeef.
    The chain found with daraqtuni has salih ibn musa (he is matruk) ,chain is very weak.
    The chain found in suyuti is daeef,and I didn't look at the other two however they are probably daeef as well because if they had stronger chains at least one of your prominent books or any book near prominent would have them but it doesn't seem like it.
    Compare this with :
    1- صحيح مسلم ونصه: عن زيد بن أرقم قال: (ثم قال: قام رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) يوماً خطيباً بماء يدعى خماً بين مكة والمدينة فحمد الله وأثنى عليه ووعظ وذكّر ثم قال: أما بعد ألا أيها الناس فإنما أنا بشر يوشك أن يأتي رسول ربي فأجيب وأنا تارك فيكم ثقلين أولهما كتاب الله فيه الهدى والنور فخذوا بكتاب الله واستمسكوا به فحث على كتاب الله ورغّب فيه ثم قال: وأهل بيتي أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي أذكركم الله في أهل بيتي...) (صحيح مسلم ج7 ص123 / دار الفكر بيروت).
    2- سنن الترمذي عن زيد أيضاً قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): (إني تارك فيكم ما إن تمسكتم به لن تضلوا بعدي، أحدهما أعظم من الآخر، كتاب الله حبل ممدود من السماء الى الارض وعترتي أهل بيتي ولن يفترقا حتى يردا عليّ الحوض فانظروا كيف تخلفوني فيهما) ( ج5 ص329 ط / دار الفكر ـ بيروت).
    3- مسند أحمد: ج3 / ص14 ـ 17 ـ ج4 / ص267 ـ 271 ـ ج5 / 182 ـ ج5 / 189.
    4- سنن الدارمي ج2 / 432.
    5- المستدرك على الصحيحين للحاكم ج3 / 110 ـ ج3 ص148.
    6- السنن الكبرى للبيهقي ج2 / 148 ـ ج7 / 20 ـ ج10 / ص114.
    7- مجمع الزوائد ج9 / 162 ـ عن أحمد وقال واسناده جيد.
    8- المصنف لابن أبي شيبة ج7 / ص418. وغيرهم كثير.
    Strong chains upon strong chains mentioning the prophet SAW saying to us to hold on to the qur'an and ahlul bayt (as) . Not only that they are found in your sihah sittah,while your quran/sunnah version doesn't even have one hadith in it !
    Refer back to what? You didn't answer a single question I asked you.
  5. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ibn Al-Ja'abi in Various Scandalous And Corrupt Beliefs Of Twelver   
    This is a response to the thread on sunniforum.com called "Various scandalous and corrupt beliefs of Twelver shias",they mostly attacked the fatawaa of the scholars claiming that they were creating fatwas that involved allowing child molestation(complete lie)etc.
    The forum is ran by a deobandi hanafi group,they are known to be rude and hard headed and not very intellectual. Their arguments are even more weak than the ones at KFC sadly .
    Anyways they wanted to know where in their books and which of their scholars allowed mut3 so I made the following post with no responses to it as of yet.
    Ok lets go step by step inshallah so we can understand this issue fully.
    It is well known even among the "sunni" ulema (they were not called "sunni" during that time) that many companions held that mut3 was considered permitted and allowed. The shia as well as many of the early proto-sunni scholars agreed that this ban was temporary,with some of them (these becoming the majority) believed it was banned again after the temporary ban and this time was a permanent. The shia say there is no evidence for this.
    We have hadith clearly from ibn abbas for example who professed it,as well as from Asma bint abu bakr,and many others. No one disagrees that Ibn abbas believed in it,we have clear hadith in bukhari and Muslim where he defended it and professed it. What the modern day sunnies and shias disagree on is weather or not he changed his opinion. The sunniyya try to argue using this hadith:
    1207 حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ أَنْبَأَنَا مَعْمَرٌ عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ وَعَبْدِ اللَّهِ ابْنَيْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ عَنْ أَبِيهِمَا مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ أَبَاهُ عَلِيَّ بْنَ أَبِي طَالِبٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ لِابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ وَبَلَغَهُ أَنَّهُ رَخَّصَ فِي مُتْعَةِ النِّسَاءِ فَقَالَ لَهُ عَلِيُّ بْنُ أَبِي طَالِبٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَدْ نَهَى عَنْهَا يَوْمَ خَيْبَرَ وَعَنْ لُحُومِ الْحُمُرِ الْأَهْلِيَّةِ
    This hadith is also found in Muslim.
    It essentially says that Ibn abbas was corrected by ali (as) ,however we know this hadith is obviously false because Ibn abbas including many of the salaf held that it was allowed even after the 4 khulafa.
    Lets see what the scholars from the sunniyya say.
    Ibn Hazm:
    : وقد ثبت على تحليلها بعد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم جماعة من السلف رضي الله عنهم منهم من الصحابة رضى الله عنهم:
    أسماء بنت أبى بكر الصديق
    وجابر بن عبد الله
    وابن مسعود
    وابن عباس
    ومعاوية بن أبى سفيان
    وعمرو بن حريث
    وأبو سعيد الخدري
    وسلمة، ومعبد ابناء أمية بن خلف
    ومن التابعين:
    طاوس
    وعطاء
    وسعيد بن جبير
    وسائر فقهاء مكة
    "And it is established that a group of the salaf declared it Halal after Rasulullah. From them are Asmaa’ bint Abi Bakr, Jabir ibn Abdullah, Ibn Mas’ud, Ibn ‘Abbas, Mu’awiyah, Amru ibn Hurayth, Abu Sa’id, Salamah, and the children of Ummayyah ibn Khalaf.
    and from the tabi'een :
    Taawus,and 3taa,and s3eed ibn khubayr,and the fuqaha of mecca" End quote
    Ibn hajr al asqalani says in his fathul baari :
    أَصْحَاب اِبْن عَبَّاس مِنْ أَهْل مَكَّة وَالْيَمَن عَلَى إِبَاحَتهَا , ثُمَّ اِتَّفَقَ فُقَهَاء الْأَمْصَار عَلَى تَحْرِيمهَا
    “The companions of Ibn ‘Abbas from the people of Makkah and Yemen held that it was permitted, then there was agreement of the jurists of the later times that it was forbidden.” [Fathul-Bari]
    So if the companions of Ibn abbas believed in it even after ali (as),then how can you bring a hadith claiming that ibn abbas changed his mind? This hadith is an obvious forgery,if you look they even tried to use Ali's (as) name.
    Ash-Shafi'i also believed that the ban at khaybar was also temporary,and then said that it was banned again probably by umar.
    Imam Al-’Ibadi reports in his Tabaqat from Imam Ash-Shafi’i that he stated,
    “There is nothing in Islam that was permitted then forbidden, then permitted then forbidden, except for muta’ah.”
    So Shafi'i also agrees that there was indeed a temporary ban falling in line exactly with what the shia say.
    Shawkani
    “The people of Makkan and Yemen report from Ibn ‘Abbas that he permitted [muta'ah], and it is reported from him that he recanted this opinion, though these chains have weakness in them. And he permission for it is what is most authentic from him, and it is the madh-hab of the Shi’iah.” ((Quoted by Imam Ash-Shawkani in Nayl Al-Awtar ))
    Then we further read.
    Jabir ibn Abdullah said, “We did muta’ah giving a handful of dates or flour as dower during the lifetime of Rasulullah and during the time of Abu Bakr until ‘Umar had forbidden it in the case of ‘Amr ibn Hurayth.
    The early sunni response as well as the shia reponse is that the hadith that mention Ali (as) mentioning mut3 not being allowed was in fact a temporary halt of the hukm,and not a complete dis allowance. We do not say what some people say,that "Allah allowed prostitution for 3 days" wa naouthubillah.
    Ibn Hajr Al-’Asqalani comments upon this quote of Ibn Hazm in his Talkhis Al-Habir stating,
    As for what is mentioned from Asma’ bint Abi Bakr then Imam An-Nasa’i reports from the way of Muslim Al-Qrri who said, “I entered upon Asma’ bint Abi Bakr and we asked her regarding muta’ah with women and she said ‘We did it during the life of Rasulullah (‘alayhis salam).” ((Nasa’i 5540 ))
    We also know that many tabi'en held that mut3 was allowed as shown in my above qoutes,we also know and the sunni ulema agree that the meccan school as well as many students of malik held that mut3 was not in fact permanently banned.
    Ahadith upon ahadith upon ahadith mention that umar was the one who banned it and actually made the mistake thinking it was a permanent ban.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3250:
    Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (muta of Hajj and muta of women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3248:
    Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that jibir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet pbuh and during the time of Abi Bakr and 'Umar
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3249:
    Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh and durnig the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3261:
    'Urwa b. Zabair reported that 'Abdullah b. Zubair stood up (and delivered an address) in Mecca saying: Allah has made blind the hearts of some people as He has deprived them of eyesight that they give religious verdict in favor of temporary marriage, while he was alluding to a person (Ibn 'Abbas). Ibn Abbas called him and said: You are an uncouth person, devoid of sense. By my life, Mut'a was practised during the lifetime of the leader of the pious (he meant Allah's Messenger, pbuh), and Ibn Zubair said to him: just do it yourselves, and by Allah, if you do that I will stone you with your stones. Ibn Shihab said. Khalid b. Muhajir b. Saifullah informed me: While I was sitting in the company of a person, a person came to him and he asked for a religious verdict about Mut'a and he permitted him to do it.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3252:
    Sabra Juhanni reported: Allah's Messenger pbuh permitted temporary marriage for us. So I and another person went out and saw a woman of Bana 'Amir, who was like a young long-necked she-camel. We presented ourselves to her (for contracting temporary marriage), whereupon she said: What dower would you give me? I said: My cloak. And my companion also said: My cloak. And the cloak of-my companion was superior to my cloak, but I was younger than he. So when she looked at the cloak of my companion she liked it, and when she cast a glance at me I looked more attractive to her. She then said: Well, you and your cloak are sufficient for me. I remained with her for three nights, and then Allah's Messenger pbuh said: He who has any such woman with whom he had contracted temporary marriage, he should let her off.
    The shi'i leaning companion jabir ibn abdullah also is quoted in sahih muslim saying :
    و حَدَّثَنَا الْحَسَنُ الْحُلْوَانِيُّ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ جُرَيْجٍ قَالَ قَالَ عَطَاءٌ قَدِمَ جَابِرُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ مُعْتَمِرًا فَجِئْنَاهُ فِي مَنْزِلِهِ فَسَأَلَهُ الْقَوْمُ عَنْ أَشْيَاءَ ثُمَّ ذَكَرُوا الْمُتْعَةَ فَقَالَ نَعَمْ اسْتَمْتَعْنَا عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَأَبِي بَكْرٍ وَعُمَرَ
    Ibn Jurayj reported from ‘Ataa’ that Jabir ibn Abdullah came to perform Umrah and we came to his abode. The people asked him about different things, then they mentioned the issue of muta’ah. Jabir ibn Abdullah said, “Yes, we performed muta’ah during the life of Rasulullah, Abu Bakr, and ‘Umar.”
    [sahih Muslim 1405, some electronic editions 2496]
    Some people were saying to ibn masu'd that mut3 is banned ,he responded in sahih muslim
    “Rasulullah allowed us to marry women for a stipulated period and then Ibn Mas’ud recited:
    “Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like the transgressors.” [sahih Muslim]
    Mut3 in the qur'an
    Many people from the sunnis,and the shia also profess that mut3 is also in the qur'an,also ibn katheer holds this opinion and actually relates traditions on this point. Moving past that we also see in this book that he also considered mut3 allowed as well as in the Qur'an
    Also in the Musannaf of Abdur-Razzaq that ‘Ataa’ said that Ibn ‘Abbas saw that muta’ah was permitted and he recited:
    والمحصنات من النساء إلا ما ملكت أيمانكم كتاب الله عليكم وأحل لكم ما وراء ذلكم أن تبتغوا بأموالكم محصنين غير مسافحين فما استمتعتم به منهن فآتوهن أجورهن فريضة ولا جناح عليكم فيما تراضيتم به من بعد الفريضة إن الله كان عليما حكيما
    Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
    Imam Al-Bukhari narrates:
    Narrated Abdullah ” We used to participate in holy wars conducted by the prophet and we had no women with us. So we said ( to the prophet ) shall we castrate ourselves”? But the prophet forbade us to do that and therefore he allowed us to marry a woman ( temporarily ) by giving her even a garment, and then the prophet recited.” O you who believe ! Do not make unlawful the good things, which God has made lawful for you.
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas’ud “We used to participate in Jihad conducted by the Prophet (‘alayhis salam) and we had no women with us. So we said ( to the prophet ) shall we castrate ourselves?” But the Prophet forbade us to do that and therefore he allowed us to marry a woman ( temporarily ) by giving her even a garment, and then the prophet recited.
    “O you who believe ! Do not make unlawful the good things, which God has made lawful for you.”
    Conclusion
    So if you bring a hadith mentioning umar banning it because the prophet SAW banned it,then you are mistaken and so is umar,the prophet SAW did not ban it indefinitely as is proven and believed by the meccan school and the companions of imam ali (as). Any hadith you bring that mentions rasuallah SAW banning mut3 until the day of judgement or ali (as) correcting ibn abbas is shadh(odd,contradicted) compared to the amount of scholars,hadith, and salaf who allowed mut3 including all of the scholars of mecca. There was also a clear and undoubted motivation for people to forge hadith to attack the shia,as it was common for groups during those days to spread hadith for political purposes including the umuyyad empire,hence the anti-shi'i hadith sometimes found.
    So we have established that :
    1. The qur'an speaks about mut3.
    2.The scholars of mecca held it to be valid
    3.Many companions held it to be valid and claim umar banned it.
    Some more interesting facts:
    Many scholars of medina allowed mut3,the scholar and Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) was also known by the sunnies to allow it.
    Many of the students of Malik also allowed mut3.
    An entire sunni madhab allowed mut3,the famous school of tabarani was known to allow mut3. (There used to be more than 4 schools,there was a school from layth,thawri,tabarani,etc.)
    I would like everyone to partake in this thread,post whatever information you have on this topic or sunni fiqh in general including their fatawaa.
  6. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from maes in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
  7. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ali Hadi. in A Call For Debate With Shia On Imamah 2013   
    To HCY forum.
     
     
    You seem to be confused as to why Ali's (as) name was not explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an. As to why Ali's (as) name was not explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an, you should know that Imam Ali (as) was specifically mentioned in the Qur'an as our Wali as agreed by all of the sunniyya, however they disagree upon the meaning of this word "wali" here. We answer very strongly that Imam Ali's (as) nass or designation to come and be the Imam after prophet Muhammad (as) is so widely reported and found in every book that to deny it would be to deny a tawatur narration that has the same amount of routes of transmission that the Qur'an has.
     
     
    Even if Imam Ali (a.s.) was not mentioned by name in the Qur'an, the concept of Imamah is clearly mentioned by the Qur'an and defined as to what it exactly it is via tawatur narrations and logical argumentation. The details of this imamah is mentioned by the sunnah. Just like when a man came to Imam jafar saadiq(as) and asked him why the names of the Imams (as) are not in the Qur'an, he said to them salah is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an but the details mentioning salah such as the number of rakats and the exact timing are not found in the Qur'an, including HOW to pray...
     
    If the people a the HCY forum claim this is qiyaas(which is funny because their entire fiqh structure and implementation is qiyaas), this is not qiyaas without a causal duplication but rather this can be deduced.
     
    If they can attempt to find a flaw in this syllogism of deduction which Imam jafar saadiq(as) used and which they criticized then I challenge them to do so.
     
    1. Islam has no inconsistency.
    2.The details of salah are integral to Islam and are not mentioned in the Qur'an.
     
    Conclusion:
     
    3. Integral details of Islam are not necessarily mentioned in the Qur'an, and Islam stays consistent.
     
     
    ^ Have fun, but you won't be able to refute it.
     
    This basically means that the overall concepts of every single usul ad deen is most definetly mentioned in the Qur'an and can be wholly logically deduced, however the details even if vastly important may be defined by the sunnah. The sunnah may even define whole concepts and not just their details and wholly define verses in the Qur'an which without you could not understand the verse or understand it in the wrong way.
     
    Hence why the sunnah is important,and hence why the sunnah must be carried out by a trusted means and not be civil warring, bias, and half witted scholars constructing their religion from qiyaas.
     
     
    You are confused......you want knowledge that is certain,but you are confused why Allah didn't choose the route to this certainty as the Qur'an, this is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Allah swt gave you a means of certainty upon the nass of Imam Ali (as) that reach the level of certainty with the Qur'an.
     
     
    To deny Imam Mahdi (afs) is kufr according to all schools, according to the sunni scholars to deny ahad narrations is fisq, and to deny tawatur narrations is kufr.
     
    If to deny Imam Mahdi (afs) causes you to be a kafir and enter the hellfire, show me where in the Qur'an does it mention him?
     
    We are dealing with a group of people who are trying to translate maula as friend in a context that is so ridiculously clear one cannot help himself but laugh.
     
    Instead of clinging to beautiful personalities you cling to tyrants and oppressors such as Muawiya la3natullah 3lay.
     
    The prophet (as) in ahadith that your own "muhaddith" albani graded as sahih said that Allah swt is an enemy to the enemies of Ali (as).
     
     
    Muawiya went to war with ali (as), cursed him according to even ibn taymiyya, killed thousands of Muslims on both sides, but hey they were still cool buds....
     
    Either start using your minds or start using your feet and walk away from your keyboards and spare us your seljuk formulated theology.
  8. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ali Musaaa :) in Various Scandalous And Corrupt Beliefs Of Twelver   
    I've personally spoken with tripoly Sunni on mic,he told me literally that Allah allowed prostitution as a ruskhsa,I doubted so I asked him again what he said and he repeated it. What so you expect from these people,Islamic marriage used to be prostitution to them.
  9. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ali Musaaa :) in Various Scandalous And Corrupt Beliefs Of Twelver   
    This is a response to the thread on sunniforum.com called "Various scandalous and corrupt beliefs of Twelver shias",they mostly attacked the fatawaa of the scholars claiming that they were creating fatwas that involved allowing child molestation(complete lie)etc.
    The forum is ran by a deobandi hanafi group,they are known to be rude and hard headed and not very intellectual. Their arguments are even more weak than the ones at KFC sadly .
    Anyways they wanted to know where in their books and which of their scholars allowed mut3 so I made the following post with no responses to it as of yet.
    Ok lets go step by step inshallah so we can understand this issue fully.
    It is well known even among the "sunni" ulema (they were not called "sunni" during that time) that many companions held that mut3 was considered permitted and allowed. The shia as well as many of the early proto-sunni scholars agreed that this ban was temporary,with some of them (these becoming the majority) believed it was banned again after the temporary ban and this time was a permanent. The shia say there is no evidence for this.
    We have hadith clearly from ibn abbas for example who professed it,as well as from Asma bint abu bakr,and many others. No one disagrees that Ibn abbas believed in it,we have clear hadith in bukhari and Muslim where he defended it and professed it. What the modern day sunnies and shias disagree on is weather or not he changed his opinion. The sunniyya try to argue using this hadith:
    1207 حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ أَنْبَأَنَا مَعْمَرٌ عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ وَعَبْدِ اللَّهِ ابْنَيْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ عَنْ أَبِيهِمَا مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ أَبَاهُ عَلِيَّ بْنَ أَبِي طَالِبٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ لِابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ وَبَلَغَهُ أَنَّهُ رَخَّصَ فِي مُتْعَةِ النِّسَاءِ فَقَالَ لَهُ عَلِيُّ بْنُ أَبِي طَالِبٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَدْ نَهَى عَنْهَا يَوْمَ خَيْبَرَ وَعَنْ لُحُومِ الْحُمُرِ الْأَهْلِيَّةِ
    This hadith is also found in Muslim.
    It essentially says that Ibn abbas was corrected by ali (as) ,however we know this hadith is obviously false because Ibn abbas including many of the salaf held that it was allowed even after the 4 khulafa.
    Lets see what the scholars from the sunniyya say.
    Ibn Hazm:
    : وقد ثبت على تحليلها بعد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم جماعة من السلف رضي الله عنهم منهم من الصحابة رضى الله عنهم:
    أسماء بنت أبى بكر الصديق
    وجابر بن عبد الله
    وابن مسعود
    وابن عباس
    ومعاوية بن أبى سفيان
    وعمرو بن حريث
    وأبو سعيد الخدري
    وسلمة، ومعبد ابناء أمية بن خلف
    ومن التابعين:
    طاوس
    وعطاء
    وسعيد بن جبير
    وسائر فقهاء مكة
    "And it is established that a group of the salaf declared it Halal after Rasulullah. From them are Asmaa’ bint Abi Bakr, Jabir ibn Abdullah, Ibn Mas’ud, Ibn ‘Abbas, Mu’awiyah, Amru ibn Hurayth, Abu Sa’id, Salamah, and the children of Ummayyah ibn Khalaf.
    and from the tabi'een :
    Taawus,and 3taa,and s3eed ibn khubayr,and the fuqaha of mecca" End quote
    Ibn hajr al asqalani says in his fathul baari :
    أَصْحَاب اِبْن عَبَّاس مِنْ أَهْل مَكَّة وَالْيَمَن عَلَى إِبَاحَتهَا , ثُمَّ اِتَّفَقَ فُقَهَاء الْأَمْصَار عَلَى تَحْرِيمهَا
    “The companions of Ibn ‘Abbas from the people of Makkah and Yemen held that it was permitted, then there was agreement of the jurists of the later times that it was forbidden.” [Fathul-Bari]
    So if the companions of Ibn abbas believed in it even after ali (as),then how can you bring a hadith claiming that ibn abbas changed his mind? This hadith is an obvious forgery,if you look they even tried to use Ali's (as) name.
    Ash-Shafi'i also believed that the ban at khaybar was also temporary,and then said that it was banned again probably by umar.
    Imam Al-’Ibadi reports in his Tabaqat from Imam Ash-Shafi’i that he stated,
    “There is nothing in Islam that was permitted then forbidden, then permitted then forbidden, except for muta’ah.”
    So Shafi'i also agrees that there was indeed a temporary ban falling in line exactly with what the shia say.
    Shawkani
    “The people of Makkan and Yemen report from Ibn ‘Abbas that he permitted [muta'ah], and it is reported from him that he recanted this opinion, though these chains have weakness in them. And he permission for it is what is most authentic from him, and it is the madh-hab of the Shi’iah.” ((Quoted by Imam Ash-Shawkani in Nayl Al-Awtar ))
    Then we further read.
    Jabir ibn Abdullah said, “We did muta’ah giving a handful of dates or flour as dower during the lifetime of Rasulullah and during the time of Abu Bakr until ‘Umar had forbidden it in the case of ‘Amr ibn Hurayth.
    The early sunni response as well as the shia reponse is that the hadith that mention Ali (as) mentioning mut3 not being allowed was in fact a temporary halt of the hukm,and not a complete dis allowance. We do not say what some people say,that "Allah allowed prostitution for 3 days" wa naouthubillah.
    Ibn Hajr Al-’Asqalani comments upon this quote of Ibn Hazm in his Talkhis Al-Habir stating,
    As for what is mentioned from Asma’ bint Abi Bakr then Imam An-Nasa’i reports from the way of Muslim Al-Qrri who said, “I entered upon Asma’ bint Abi Bakr and we asked her regarding muta’ah with women and she said ‘We did it during the life of Rasulullah (‘alayhis salam).” ((Nasa’i 5540 ))
    We also know that many tabi'en held that mut3 was allowed as shown in my above qoutes,we also know and the sunni ulema agree that the meccan school as well as many students of malik held that mut3 was not in fact permanently banned.
    Ahadith upon ahadith upon ahadith mention that umar was the one who banned it and actually made the mistake thinking it was a permanent ban.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3250:
    Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (muta of Hajj and muta of women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3248:
    Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that jibir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet pbuh and during the time of Abi Bakr and 'Umar
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3249:
    Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh and durnig the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3261:
    'Urwa b. Zabair reported that 'Abdullah b. Zubair stood up (and delivered an address) in Mecca saying: Allah has made blind the hearts of some people as He has deprived them of eyesight that they give religious verdict in favor of temporary marriage, while he was alluding to a person (Ibn 'Abbas). Ibn Abbas called him and said: You are an uncouth person, devoid of sense. By my life, Mut'a was practised during the lifetime of the leader of the pious (he meant Allah's Messenger, pbuh), and Ibn Zubair said to him: just do it yourselves, and by Allah, if you do that I will stone you with your stones. Ibn Shihab said. Khalid b. Muhajir b. Saifullah informed me: While I was sitting in the company of a person, a person came to him and he asked for a religious verdict about Mut'a and he permitted him to do it.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3252:
    Sabra Juhanni reported: Allah's Messenger pbuh permitted temporary marriage for us. So I and another person went out and saw a woman of Bana 'Amir, who was like a young long-necked she-camel. We presented ourselves to her (for contracting temporary marriage), whereupon she said: What dower would you give me? I said: My cloak. And my companion also said: My cloak. And the cloak of-my companion was superior to my cloak, but I was younger than he. So when she looked at the cloak of my companion she liked it, and when she cast a glance at me I looked more attractive to her. She then said: Well, you and your cloak are sufficient for me. I remained with her for three nights, and then Allah's Messenger pbuh said: He who has any such woman with whom he had contracted temporary marriage, he should let her off.
    The shi'i leaning companion jabir ibn abdullah also is quoted in sahih muslim saying :
    و حَدَّثَنَا الْحَسَنُ الْحُلْوَانِيُّ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ جُرَيْجٍ قَالَ قَالَ عَطَاءٌ قَدِمَ جَابِرُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ مُعْتَمِرًا فَجِئْنَاهُ فِي مَنْزِلِهِ فَسَأَلَهُ الْقَوْمُ عَنْ أَشْيَاءَ ثُمَّ ذَكَرُوا الْمُتْعَةَ فَقَالَ نَعَمْ اسْتَمْتَعْنَا عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَأَبِي بَكْرٍ وَعُمَرَ
    Ibn Jurayj reported from ‘Ataa’ that Jabir ibn Abdullah came to perform Umrah and we came to his abode. The people asked him about different things, then they mentioned the issue of muta’ah. Jabir ibn Abdullah said, “Yes, we performed muta’ah during the life of Rasulullah, Abu Bakr, and ‘Umar.”
    [sahih Muslim 1405, some electronic editions 2496]
    Some people were saying to ibn masu'd that mut3 is banned ,he responded in sahih muslim
    “Rasulullah allowed us to marry women for a stipulated period and then Ibn Mas’ud recited:
    “Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like the transgressors.” [sahih Muslim]
    Mut3 in the qur'an
    Many people from the sunnis,and the shia also profess that mut3 is also in the qur'an,also ibn katheer holds this opinion and actually relates traditions on this point. Moving past that we also see in this book that he also considered mut3 allowed as well as in the Qur'an
    Also in the Musannaf of Abdur-Razzaq that ‘Ataa’ said that Ibn ‘Abbas saw that muta’ah was permitted and he recited:
    والمحصنات من النساء إلا ما ملكت أيمانكم كتاب الله عليكم وأحل لكم ما وراء ذلكم أن تبتغوا بأموالكم محصنين غير مسافحين فما استمتعتم به منهن فآتوهن أجورهن فريضة ولا جناح عليكم فيما تراضيتم به من بعد الفريضة إن الله كان عليما حكيما
    Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
    Imam Al-Bukhari narrates:
    Narrated Abdullah ” We used to participate in holy wars conducted by the prophet and we had no women with us. So we said ( to the prophet ) shall we castrate ourselves”? But the prophet forbade us to do that and therefore he allowed us to marry a woman ( temporarily ) by giving her even a garment, and then the prophet recited.” O you who believe ! Do not make unlawful the good things, which God has made lawful for you.
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas’ud “We used to participate in Jihad conducted by the Prophet (‘alayhis salam) and we had no women with us. So we said ( to the prophet ) shall we castrate ourselves?” But the Prophet forbade us to do that and therefore he allowed us to marry a woman ( temporarily ) by giving her even a garment, and then the prophet recited.
    “O you who believe ! Do not make unlawful the good things, which God has made lawful for you.”
    Conclusion
    So if you bring a hadith mentioning umar banning it because the prophet SAW banned it,then you are mistaken and so is umar,the prophet SAW did not ban it indefinitely as is proven and believed by the meccan school and the companions of imam ali (as). Any hadith you bring that mentions rasuallah SAW banning mut3 until the day of judgement or ali (as) correcting ibn abbas is shadh(odd,contradicted) compared to the amount of scholars,hadith, and salaf who allowed mut3 including all of the scholars of mecca. There was also a clear and undoubted motivation for people to forge hadith to attack the shia,as it was common for groups during those days to spread hadith for political purposes including the umuyyad empire,hence the anti-shi'i hadith sometimes found.
    So we have established that :
    1. The qur'an speaks about mut3.
    2.The scholars of mecca held it to be valid
    3.Many companions held it to be valid and claim umar banned it.
    Some more interesting facts:
    Many scholars of medina allowed mut3,the scholar and Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) was also known by the sunnies to allow it.
    Many of the students of Malik also allowed mut3.
    An entire sunni madhab allowed mut3,the famous school of tabarani was known to allow mut3. (There used to be more than 4 schools,there was a school from layth,thawri,tabarani,etc.)
    I would like everyone to partake in this thread,post whatever information you have on this topic or sunni fiqh in general including their fatawaa.
  10. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from BrockLesnar in Question To "nader Zaveri" And To The Shias.   
    This is not meant to be an accusation on this person but rather a clarification of his name or the revealing of truth.
    I have been reading for a long time this person's posts and habits,and patterns have come up that are rather odd.
    I have noticed that nader zaveri many times argues and defends the sunni position when it is completely unnecessary,I have also noticed that he assists people that are not so shia friendly with hadith,etc.
    I have also come across this post on KFC forums where nader zaveri is thanking a post that is basically trying to refute the idea of mahdi being hidden.
    [URL Edited]/index.php?showtopic=18860
    Is there a reason why you are constantly defending the sunnies,thanking their posts,assisting them with hadith,spelling words and using grammar like they do "islaam",similar methodology,everyone accusing you of the same thing,thanking and supporting anti shi'i posts ?
    Brothers and sisters we are on the truth while they (the sunnies) are on falsehood,time and time again they try to refute our madhab with weak arguments only to be shattered by the brothers on this forum.
    We are at a loss because they have more people thus more ability to create arguments and spread them more,there are only 2-3 brothers on this forum that actually have the knowledge to answer them due to the fact that they have more numbers.
    I honestly have not seen more weak arguments from any religion than these "sunnies",even speaking with them on microphone with people such as farid and hani shows that they have weak arguments and funny methodologies that are just as equally weak.
    Some people become frightened and buy into their illusions,but wallahi brothers and sisters their usul al fiqh,their ilm al hadith,and their entire madhab is based upon conjecture and weak premises.
    I dare and challenge these people at hcy to try to debate our brothers like Islamic salvation,mac and hannibal.
    And you will see that they run away and fail every time,just like the cowards farid,hani,kalaam,and efendi,these 4 musketeers.
    May Allah assist the helpers of his prophet's (saw) household,the second of the two weighty things that Allah has caused to be a composite of Islam,and a guidance for the Qur'an.
  11. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from The Green Knight in Various Scandalous And Corrupt Beliefs Of Twelver   
    *yawn*
  12. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from The Green Knight in Various Scandalous And Corrupt Beliefs Of Twelver   
    If anyone has anymore material or any replies please feel free to make a post.
  13. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from The Green Knight in Various Scandalous And Corrupt Beliefs Of Twelver   
    This is a response to the thread on sunniforum.com called "Various scandalous and corrupt beliefs of Twelver shias",they mostly attacked the fatawaa of the scholars claiming that they were creating fatwas that involved allowing child molestation(complete lie)etc.
    The forum is ran by a deobandi hanafi group,they are known to be rude and hard headed and not very intellectual. Their arguments are even more weak than the ones at KFC sadly .
    Anyways they wanted to know where in their books and which of their scholars allowed mut3 so I made the following post with no responses to it as of yet.
    Ok lets go step by step inshallah so we can understand this issue fully.
    It is well known even among the "sunni" ulema (they were not called "sunni" during that time) that many companions held that mut3 was considered permitted and allowed. The shia as well as many of the early proto-sunni scholars agreed that this ban was temporary,with some of them (these becoming the majority) believed it was banned again after the temporary ban and this time was a permanent. The shia say there is no evidence for this.
    We have hadith clearly from ibn abbas for example who professed it,as well as from Asma bint abu bakr,and many others. No one disagrees that Ibn abbas believed in it,we have clear hadith in bukhari and Muslim where he defended it and professed it. What the modern day sunnies and shias disagree on is weather or not he changed his opinion. The sunniyya try to argue using this hadith:
    1207 حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ أَنْبَأَنَا مَعْمَرٌ عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ وَعَبْدِ اللَّهِ ابْنَيْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ عَنْ أَبِيهِمَا مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ أَبَاهُ عَلِيَّ بْنَ أَبِي طَالِبٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ لِابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ وَبَلَغَهُ أَنَّهُ رَخَّصَ فِي مُتْعَةِ النِّسَاءِ فَقَالَ لَهُ عَلِيُّ بْنُ أَبِي طَالِبٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَدْ نَهَى عَنْهَا يَوْمَ خَيْبَرَ وَعَنْ لُحُومِ الْحُمُرِ الْأَهْلِيَّةِ
    This hadith is also found in Muslim.
    It essentially says that Ibn abbas was corrected by ali (as) ,however we know this hadith is obviously false because Ibn abbas including many of the salaf held that it was allowed even after the 4 khulafa.
    Lets see what the scholars from the sunniyya say.
    Ibn Hazm:
    : وقد ثبت على تحليلها بعد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم جماعة من السلف رضي الله عنهم منهم من الصحابة رضى الله عنهم:
    أسماء بنت أبى بكر الصديق
    وجابر بن عبد الله
    وابن مسعود
    وابن عباس
    ومعاوية بن أبى سفيان
    وعمرو بن حريث
    وأبو سعيد الخدري
    وسلمة، ومعبد ابناء أمية بن خلف
    ومن التابعين:
    طاوس
    وعطاء
    وسعيد بن جبير
    وسائر فقهاء مكة
    "And it is established that a group of the salaf declared it Halal after Rasulullah. From them are Asmaa’ bint Abi Bakr, Jabir ibn Abdullah, Ibn Mas’ud, Ibn ‘Abbas, Mu’awiyah, Amru ibn Hurayth, Abu Sa’id, Salamah, and the children of Ummayyah ibn Khalaf.
    and from the tabi'een :
    Taawus,and 3taa,and s3eed ibn khubayr,and the fuqaha of mecca" End quote
    Ibn hajr al asqalani says in his fathul baari :
    أَصْحَاب اِبْن عَبَّاس مِنْ أَهْل مَكَّة وَالْيَمَن عَلَى إِبَاحَتهَا , ثُمَّ اِتَّفَقَ فُقَهَاء الْأَمْصَار عَلَى تَحْرِيمهَا
    “The companions of Ibn ‘Abbas from the people of Makkah and Yemen held that it was permitted, then there was agreement of the jurists of the later times that it was forbidden.” [Fathul-Bari]
    So if the companions of Ibn abbas believed in it even after ali (as),then how can you bring a hadith claiming that ibn abbas changed his mind? This hadith is an obvious forgery,if you look they even tried to use Ali's (as) name.
    Ash-Shafi'i also believed that the ban at khaybar was also temporary,and then said that it was banned again probably by umar.
    Imam Al-’Ibadi reports in his Tabaqat from Imam Ash-Shafi’i that he stated,
    “There is nothing in Islam that was permitted then forbidden, then permitted then forbidden, except for muta’ah.”
    So Shafi'i also agrees that there was indeed a temporary ban falling in line exactly with what the shia say.
    Shawkani
    “The people of Makkan and Yemen report from Ibn ‘Abbas that he permitted [muta'ah], and it is reported from him that he recanted this opinion, though these chains have weakness in them. And he permission for it is what is most authentic from him, and it is the madh-hab of the Shi’iah.” ((Quoted by Imam Ash-Shawkani in Nayl Al-Awtar ))
    Then we further read.
    Jabir ibn Abdullah said, “We did muta’ah giving a handful of dates or flour as dower during the lifetime of Rasulullah and during the time of Abu Bakr until ‘Umar had forbidden it in the case of ‘Amr ibn Hurayth.
    The early sunni response as well as the shia reponse is that the hadith that mention Ali (as) mentioning mut3 not being allowed was in fact a temporary halt of the hukm,and not a complete dis allowance. We do not say what some people say,that "Allah allowed prostitution for 3 days" wa naouthubillah.
    Ibn Hajr Al-’Asqalani comments upon this quote of Ibn Hazm in his Talkhis Al-Habir stating,
    As for what is mentioned from Asma’ bint Abi Bakr then Imam An-Nasa’i reports from the way of Muslim Al-Qrri who said, “I entered upon Asma’ bint Abi Bakr and we asked her regarding muta’ah with women and she said ‘We did it during the life of Rasulullah (‘alayhis salam).” ((Nasa’i 5540 ))
    We also know that many tabi'en held that mut3 was allowed as shown in my above qoutes,we also know and the sunni ulema agree that the meccan school as well as many students of malik held that mut3 was not in fact permanently banned.
    Ahadith upon ahadith upon ahadith mention that umar was the one who banned it and actually made the mistake thinking it was a permanent ban.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3250:
    Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (muta of Hajj and muta of women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3248:
    Ibn Uraij reported: 'Ati' reported that jibir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet pbuh and during the time of Abi Bakr and 'Umar
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3249:
    Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh and durnig the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3261:
    'Urwa b. Zabair reported that 'Abdullah b. Zubair stood up (and delivered an address) in Mecca saying: Allah has made blind the hearts of some people as He has deprived them of eyesight that they give religious verdict in favor of temporary marriage, while he was alluding to a person (Ibn 'Abbas). Ibn Abbas called him and said: You are an uncouth person, devoid of sense. By my life, Mut'a was practised during the lifetime of the leader of the pious (he meant Allah's Messenger, pbuh), and Ibn Zubair said to him: just do it yourselves, and by Allah, if you do that I will stone you with your stones. Ibn Shihab said. Khalid b. Muhajir b. Saifullah informed me: While I was sitting in the company of a person, a person came to him and he asked for a religious verdict about Mut'a and he permitted him to do it.
    Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3252:
    Sabra Juhanni reported: Allah's Messenger pbuh permitted temporary marriage for us. So I and another person went out and saw a woman of Bana 'Amir, who was like a young long-necked she-camel. We presented ourselves to her (for contracting temporary marriage), whereupon she said: What dower would you give me? I said: My cloak. And my companion also said: My cloak. And the cloak of-my companion was superior to my cloak, but I was younger than he. So when she looked at the cloak of my companion she liked it, and when she cast a glance at me I looked more attractive to her. She then said: Well, you and your cloak are sufficient for me. I remained with her for three nights, and then Allah's Messenger pbuh said: He who has any such woman with whom he had contracted temporary marriage, he should let her off.
    The shi'i leaning companion jabir ibn abdullah also is quoted in sahih muslim saying :
    و حَدَّثَنَا الْحَسَنُ الْحُلْوَانِيُّ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ جُرَيْجٍ قَالَ قَالَ عَطَاءٌ قَدِمَ جَابِرُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ مُعْتَمِرًا فَجِئْنَاهُ فِي مَنْزِلِهِ فَسَأَلَهُ الْقَوْمُ عَنْ أَشْيَاءَ ثُمَّ ذَكَرُوا الْمُتْعَةَ فَقَالَ نَعَمْ اسْتَمْتَعْنَا عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَأَبِي بَكْرٍ وَعُمَرَ
    Ibn Jurayj reported from ‘Ataa’ that Jabir ibn Abdullah came to perform Umrah and we came to his abode. The people asked him about different things, then they mentioned the issue of muta’ah. Jabir ibn Abdullah said, “Yes, we performed muta’ah during the life of Rasulullah, Abu Bakr, and ‘Umar.”
    [sahih Muslim 1405, some electronic editions 2496]
    Some people were saying to ibn masu'd that mut3 is banned ,he responded in sahih muslim
    “Rasulullah allowed us to marry women for a stipulated period and then Ibn Mas’ud recited:
    “Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like the transgressors.” [sahih Muslim]
    Mut3 in the qur'an
    Many people from the sunnis,and the shia also profess that mut3 is also in the qur'an,also ibn katheer holds this opinion and actually relates traditions on this point. Moving past that we also see in this book that he also considered mut3 allowed as well as in the Qur'an
    Also in the Musannaf of Abdur-Razzaq that ‘Ataa’ said that Ibn ‘Abbas saw that muta’ah was permitted and he recited:
    والمحصنات من النساء إلا ما ملكت أيمانكم كتاب الله عليكم وأحل لكم ما وراء ذلكم أن تبتغوا بأموالكم محصنين غير مسافحين فما استمتعتم به منهن فآتوهن أجورهن فريضة ولا جناح عليكم فيما تراضيتم به من بعد الفريضة إن الله كان عليما حكيما
    Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
    Imam Al-Bukhari narrates:
    Narrated Abdullah ” We used to participate in holy wars conducted by the prophet and we had no women with us. So we said ( to the prophet ) shall we castrate ourselves”? But the prophet forbade us to do that and therefore he allowed us to marry a woman ( temporarily ) by giving her even a garment, and then the prophet recited.” O you who believe ! Do not make unlawful the good things, which God has made lawful for you.
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas’ud “We used to participate in Jihad conducted by the Prophet (‘alayhis salam) and we had no women with us. So we said ( to the prophet ) shall we castrate ourselves?” But the Prophet forbade us to do that and therefore he allowed us to marry a woman ( temporarily ) by giving her even a garment, and then the prophet recited.
    “O you who believe ! Do not make unlawful the good things, which God has made lawful for you.”
    Conclusion
    So if you bring a hadith mentioning umar banning it because the prophet SAW banned it,then you are mistaken and so is umar,the prophet SAW did not ban it indefinitely as is proven and believed by the meccan school and the companions of imam ali (as). Any hadith you bring that mentions rasuallah SAW banning mut3 until the day of judgement or ali (as) correcting ibn abbas is shadh(odd,contradicted) compared to the amount of scholars,hadith, and salaf who allowed mut3 including all of the scholars of mecca. There was also a clear and undoubted motivation for people to forge hadith to attack the shia,as it was common for groups during those days to spread hadith for political purposes including the umuyyad empire,hence the anti-shi'i hadith sometimes found.
    So we have established that :
    1. The qur'an speaks about mut3.
    2.The scholars of mecca held it to be valid
    3.Many companions held it to be valid and claim umar banned it.
    Some more interesting facts:
    Many scholars of medina allowed mut3,the scholar and Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) was also known by the sunnies to allow it.
    Many of the students of Malik also allowed mut3.
    An entire sunni madhab allowed mut3,the famous school of tabarani was known to allow mut3. (There used to be more than 4 schools,there was a school from layth,thawri,tabarani,etc.)
    I would like everyone to partake in this thread,post whatever information you have on this topic or sunni fiqh in general including their fatawaa.
  14. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ali Musaaa :) in Ahl Al-Bayt Daily   
    - علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن أبان بن عثمان، عن حريز عن وليد بن صبيح، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) قال: من ترك التزويج مخافة العيلة فقد أساء بالله الظن.
     
    Ali Ibn ibrahim from Ibrahim ibn hashim from ibn abi umayr from aban ibn uthmaan, from hurayz from waleed ibn sabeeh from
     
    Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) who said " Whoever leaves marriage being afraid of poverty then he has thought ill of Allah".
     
    (sahih)
  15. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ali Musaaa :) in Many Men Asking For One (My) Girl's Hand!   
    Lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep  B)
  16. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ali Musaaa :) in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
  17. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ibn Al-Ja'abi in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
  18. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from NaveenHussain in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
  19. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz reacted to Abu Tufayl in Al-Kafi: Doubts   
    (bismillah)
     
    This should help you:
     

     
    في أمان الله
  20. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from TheIslamHistory in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
  21. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Haydar Husayn in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
  22. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz reacted to TheIslamHistory in Sunni Or Shia, Who's Right? Or Both Wrong?   
    (bismillah)
     
     
    1- Your lack of understanding the verse 6:159 fascinates the reader my dear, do you take the Quran a plain text of mere words? Do you have knowledge in the Arabic language? or have you simply come here with two premises and made a a conclusion based on opinions? The following verse you have mentioned: 
     
    إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ ۚ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْعَلُونَ
     
    Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only
    to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do. 
     
    I hope you are not concluding that the verse is pointing towards the "Shia" as the name of the group in the Islamic Religion. First of all you are wrong to think so, if you have any understanding of the verse or the Arabic language, The word "Shi’a”means "followers; members of party". As such, the term "Shi’a”alone has no negative or positive meaning unless we specify the leader of the party. If one is a Shi’a (follower) of the most righteous servants, then there is nothing wrong with being Shi’a, specially if the leader of such party has been assigned by Allah. So there are righteous Followers and there are Wrongdoer followers, take for example  Prophet Abraham (a.s) who was mentioned in Qur’an specifically as the Shi’a of Noah (a.s):
     
     وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ ﴿الصافات: ٨٣
     
    And most surely Abraham was among the Shi’a of him (i.e., Noah)”(Qur’an 37:83)
     
     
    Also take for example Shi’a of Moses versus the enemies of Moses:
     
    فَوَجَدَ فِيهَا رَجُلَيْنِ يَقْتَتِلَانِ هَـٰذَا مِن شِيعَتِهِ وَهَـٰذَا مِنْ عَدُوِّهِ ۖفَاسْتَغَاثَهُ الَّذِي مِن شِيعَتِهِ عَلَى الَّذِي مِنْ عَدُوِّهِ...
     
     
    "And he (Moses) went into the city at a time when people (of the city) were not watching, so he found therein two men fighting, one being of his Shi’a and the other beinghis enemy, and the one who was of his Shi’a cried out to him for help against the one who was of his enemy”(Qur’an 28:15)  In the above verse of Qur’an, one is named the Shi’a of Moses (as) and the other one is named the enemy of Moses, and the people at that time were either the Shi’a or the enemy of Moses (as). Thus Shi’a is an official word used by Allah in His Qur’an for His high rank prophets as well as their followers. Do you want to say Prophet Abraham was sectarian? How about Prophet Noah and Prophet Moses? If somebody calls himself a Shi’a, it is not due to any sectarianism, nor any innovation. It is because Qur’an has used the phrase for some of His best servants. The above verses that I mentioned in support of Shi’a, has used this term singular form (i.e., one group of followers). 
     
    This means that it has special meaning, such as: The Shi’a of Noah (a.s), The Shi’a of Moses (a.s). Also in the History of Islam, Shi’a has been specially used for the "followers of ‘Ali". The first individual who used this term was the Messenger of Allah himself:
     
     
    Sunni References 
     
     
    We read in Fadha’il al-Sahaba (فضائل الصحابة) by Ahmad Bin Hanbal (لأحمد بن حنبل), volume 2, page 654-655, Narration # 1115:
     
     
    حدثنا إبراهيم بن شريك قثنا عقبة بن مكرم الضبي قثنا يونس بن بكير ، عن السوار بن مصعب ، عن أبي الجحاف ، قال أبو مكرم عقبة : وكان من الشيعة ، عن محمد بن عمرو ، عن فاطمة الكبرى ، عن أم سلمة قالت : كان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم عندي في ليلتي فغدت (1) عليه فاطمة وعلي ، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : « يا علي أبشر ، فإنك وأصحابك وشيعتك في الجنة » . وذكر بقية الحديث .
     
     
    Told us Ibrahim bin Sharik, told us Aqb'a bin Muk'aram Al-Thabi, told us Yunis bin Baki'eer from Al-Siwar bin Mus'ab, from Abi-Al-Juha'af, said, Abu Muk'aram Aqb'a: and was of Shia, from Muhammad bin Umru, from Fatima Al-Kubra, from Um-salamh said: The Prophet peace and blessings be upon him was with me, so in the first afternoon came Fatima and Ali, so the Messenger of Allah peace and blessings be upon him said (to Ali):"Glad tiding O ‘Ali! Verily you and your companions and your Shi’a (followers) will be in Paradise."   The Muhaqiq Of the book Wrote in the notes: Fabricated, and the accused Al-Siwa'ar Bin Mas'ab Al-Hamadani and is accused of lying. However was he really lying? Lets us take a close look at the following verse in the Quran, Surat Al-Bayyinah (The Clear Proof) - سورة البينة, verse 7: إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ أُولَٰئِكَ هُمْ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the Khair Al-Bariyaiah (best of creatures)    The Tafa'sir of Ahlul-Sunnah on the narrations aspect: We read in Tafsir Dar-Almunth'or ( الدر المنثور) by Jalal Al-Deen Alsuy'oti (عبد الرحمن بن الكمال جلال الدين السيوطي), volume 15, page 577-578:   وأخرج ابن مردويه عن عائشة قالت : قلت يا رسول الله : من أكرم الخلق على الله ؟ قال : " يا عائشة أما تقرئين إن الذين آمنوا وعملو الصالحات أولئك هم خير البرية  Released it Ibn Mardudiah from Aisha said: "I said O messenger of Allah who is the best of creatures loved/closest to Allah?". Said (The prophet (s)): "O Aisha do you not read: Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds, those are the best of creatures (Bariyah/ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ).   أخرج ابن عساكر عن جابر بن عبد الله قال كنا عند النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم فأقبل علي فقال النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم : " والذي نفسي بيده إن هذا وشيعته لهم الفائزون يوم القيامة ونزلت إن الذين آمنوا وعملوا الصالحات أولئك هم خير البرية " فكان أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم إذا أقبل علي قالوا : جاء خير البرية  Released it Ibn As'akir From Jabir bin Abdullah, said: "I was with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), then Ali came, so said the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): "And by whom my soul is in his hands, he (Ali) and his followers (Shia'teh) they are the winners on the day of judgement." and the verse came down: they who have believed and done righteous deeds, those are the best of creatures (Khair Al-Bariyah/ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ). For when the companions of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), when Ali came, they said: "Here is is Khair Al-Bariyah". وأخرج ابن عدي وابن عساكر عن أبي سعيد مرفوعا : علي خير البرية And Released it Ibn Ad'i and Ibn Asa'kir marfo'an: Ali Khair Al-bari'ah.  وأخرج ابن عدي عن ابن عباس قال : لما نزلت إن الذين آمنوا وعملوا الصالحات أولئك هم خير البرية قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم لعلي : هو أنت وشيعتك يوم القيامة راضين مرضيين  And released it Ibn Ad'i From Ibn Abbas Said: "When this verse came down: Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the Khair Al-Bariyaiah (best of creatures), said the messenger of Allah (s), to Ali: "It is you and your Shia'atak (followers) on the day of judgement satisfied."  وأخرج ابن مردويه عن علي قال : قال لي رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم : " ألم تسمع قول الله : إن الذين آمنوا وعملوا الصالحات أولئك هم خير البرية أنت وشيعتك وموعدي وموعدكم الحوض إذا جئت الأمم للحساب تدعون غرا محجلين  And Released it Ibn Mardu'dia from Ali, Said: Said to me the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him: "have you not heard the word of Allah: "When this verse came down: Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the Khair Al-Bariyaiah (best of creatures), is you and your Shia'atak (followers) and my appointment and your is the H'awth (Meaning lake Al-Kawthar), if the Nations came towards judgement, And you Muhajal'een (Light on your Foreheads).     
      There are many narrations of this version, please refer to the following references: Mu'jam Al-Awsat (المعجم الأوسط) volume 4, page 187, Kanzal Al-Ama'al ( كنز العمّال), Volume 13, page 156 & Volume 11, p323., Tareekh Dimashq (تاريخ دمشق), by Ibn As'alir, volume 42, page 332, And Tareekh Baghdad ( تاريخ بغداد), volume 12, page 284, Miza'an Al-Itidan ( ميزان الاعتدال),volume 1, page 421, Muj'am Al-Kabeer (المعجم الكبير): volume 3, page 41, and Shawahid Al-Tanzeel (شواهد التنزيل), Volume 1, page 85, narration 105. 

    Concerning the Authentication, Let us read In Mujam'ah Al-Zawa'id Wa Manba'a Al-Fawa'id (مجمع الزوائد ومنبع الفوائد) By Al-Haythami (الهيثمي), volume 9 page 11:   وَعَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي نُجَيٍّ: أَنَّ عَلِيًّا أُتِيَ يَوْمَ الْبَصِيرِ بِذَهَبٍ وَفِضَّةٍ، فَقَالَ: ابْيَضِّي وَاصْفَرِّي وَغُرِّي غَيْرِي غُرِّي أَهْلَ الشَّامِ غَدًا إِذَا ظَهَرُوا عَلَيْكِ، فَشَقَّ قَوْلُهُ ذَلِكَ عَلَى النَّاسِ، فَذُكِرَ ذَلِكَ لَهُ، فَأَذَّنَ فِي النَّاسِ فَدَخَلُوا عَلَيْهِ قَالَ: إِنَّ خَلِيلِي - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - قَالَ: " «يَا عَلِيُّ، إِنَّكَ سَتَقْدَمُ عَلَى اللَّهِ وَشِيعَتُكَ رَاضِينَ مَرْضِيِّينَ، وَيَقْدَمُ عَلَيْكَ عَدُوُّكَ غِضَابًا مُقْمَحِينَ» ". ثُمَّ جَمَعَ عَلِيٌّ يَدَهُ إِلَى عُنُقِهِ يُرِيهِمُ الْإِقْمَاحَ. And From Abdullah Bin Abi Nuja'in: "..Until he says": The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him said: "O Ali, you and your Shia'atak (Followers) will come forward to Allah satisfied, satisfied with, and your enemy will come forward, Allah will not be satisfied with them, and they will be Muqma'heen (Meaning: their hands tied behind their necks).      Haythami (الهيثمي) writes: The narration has Jaber Al-Juf'i ( جَابِرٌ الْجُعْفِيُّ), and he is weak. However to this extent, it cannot be considers as weak, and Jabir Al-Juf'i, is among the trusted among the narrators of Hadith. He's full name, Jabir Bin yazeed Al-harith Bin Abd Yagho'th bin Ka'ab Bin Harith bin Muw'iyah bin Wa'il bin Mar'iy bin Al-Juf'i, Abu Abdullah Said: Abu Muhammad Alkufi. جابر بن يزيد بن الحارث بن عبد يغوث بن كعب بن الحارث بن معاوية بن وائل بن مرئي بن جعفي الجعفي ، أبو عبد الله ، ويقال : أبو يزيد ، ويقال : أبو محمد الكوفي) as Read in Tah'theeb Al-Kamal (تهذيب الكمال), Volume 4, page 465 ,number 879. First, said Abu Is'aa: from Al-jarud said: Heard Waki'a said: "If it was not for Jabir Al-Juf'i The people of Kufa would be without no narration", Read in Sunnan Al-Timithi (سنن الترمذي), volume 5, page 741. Second: And said Isma'ail Bin Ali'ya, from Shu'ba: "Jabir is Trustworthy in narrations", read in Tahtheeb Al-kamal (تهذيب الكمال), volume 4, page 467. Third we read in the introduction of Sahih Muslim (صحيح مسلم ), volume 1, page 20: From Al-jarah bin Mali'eeh Said, Jabir said: "I have seventy thousand narrations from my father (Abi) Jafar from the Prophet (s), all of them". Fourth: Ibn Mahdi, Heard Sufyain, said: "I have not seen anyone greater in narrations than Jabir Al-Juf'i", read in Mizan Al-Itidal (ميزان الاعتدال), volume 1, page 382. As you see, no reason to weak him what so ever, unless you can bring me hard evidence of forgery that he committed.  _____________________________________________________________________________________________


    Concerning the verse 159 in Surah Al-Annam (6), The division is of those who have "Left" their Religion, leaving to what is the truth, and the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), as mentioned has nothing to do with them. But However if there are many sects in Islam, is not the "Right" sect, as sect as well? among these sects? and the Wording of "Shia'n" in the verse is not termed as any one specific, but in the meaning of "Groups". as We read in The Ahlul-Sunnah Tafsir, Tafseer Al-Qurtubi (: الجامع لأحكام القرآن (تفسير القرطبي)), By Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Al-Ansari Al-Qutubi (محمد بن أحمد الأنصاري القرطبي أبو عبد الله), volume 9, page 135:

    "And from the reading of Ali Bin Abi Talib, May Allah Lighten his face: It is Leaving an separating, meaning they have left religion, and Ali use to say: "By Allah They have not divided it, but they have left it."
     "And narrated Abu Hurriara from the Prophet (s) on this verse: "And those who divided their religion", they are the people of Bid'ah and misunderstanding, and the people of ignorance (Thal'aal) of this nation". And the meaning of Shia'an, is groups and clans. And in every nation is one ordering another following the opinion of the others, they called "Shi'an"    _______________________________________________________________________



    2- Concerning the Sermon 125 or 126 (in some books):   ثُمَّ أَنْتُمْ شِرَارُ النَّاسِ، وَمَنْ رَمَى بِهِ الشَّيْطَانُ مَرَامِيَهُ، وَضَرَبَ بِهِ تِيهَهُ ! وَسَيَهْلِكُ فِيَّ صِنْفَانِ: مُحِبٌّ مُفْرِطٌ يَذْهَبُ بِهِ الْحُبُّ إِلَى غَيْرِ الْحَقِّ، وَمُبْغِضٌ مُفْرِطٌ يَذْهَبُ بِهِ الْبُغْضُ إِلَى غَيْرِ الْحَقِّ، وَخَيْرُ النَّاسِ فيَّ حَالاً الَّنمَطُ الاْوْسَطُ فَالْزَمُوهُ، وَالْزَمُوا السَّوَادَ الاَعْظَم فَإِنَّ يَدَ اللهِ مَعَ الْجَمَاعَةِ، وَإِيَّاكُمْ وَالْفُرْقَةَ! فَإِنَّ الشَّاذَّ مِنَ النَّاسِ لِلشَّيْطَانِ، كَمَا أَنَّ الشَّاذَّةَ مِنَ الْغَنَمِ لِلذِّئْبِ.
     1- The Word in this context does not mean Majority, nor is it aiming at a group or Sect in specific of which majority. The word is Simply but "Jama'ah" a group/clan/party in general. 2- The Sermon in specific Does not have an Isn'aad (source) that is Authenticated, and it is from what Al-Tabari (الطبري) inscribed in his history, volume 5, page 84, for we cannot trust the sermon on the level of its specifications, and till now, no one has came an authenticated on the health of such sermon in Nahjul-Balagha, for there must be an Isna'ad to take it out from each sermon there is. 3- The jam'ah that is assumed with Allah, must only be with the Imam (a.s), that leads the Ummah into righteousness, which the majority must be with whom is righteous in position that will not lead them into arrogance. If the Ummah all came together into the majority of jam'ah, then that does not mean its righteous, Do you think when they came together against Imam Hussain (a.s) they were righteous? The I'jma'ah does not equal righteousness as a prerequisite.  4-  Neither reason nor the Holy Quran implies that the minority is on the wrong path. The following verses of the Holy Quran imply that the majority of the people will be on the wrong path. take the following examples: Most people are not grateful.   (Surah Baqarah 2:243)Most people do not know.     (Surah Araaf 7:187)Most of the people do not believe.  (Surah Hud 11:17)…and do not remember Allah save a little.   (Surah Nisa 4:142)…little it is that you give thanks.  (Surah Araaf 7:10)…so they shall not believe except a few  (Surah Nisa 4:155)  ___________________________________________  و عليكم السلام رحمةالله

      
  23. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Ethics in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
  24. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Sumerian in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
  25. Like
    Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz got a reaction from Abu Tufayl in Shia Adhan Proven   
    I came across two authentic Hadith from the books of ahlus sunnah that show that the phrase "haya 'ala khayr l 'amol", was actually the original and proper adhan. When looking at the sunni replies from both the English and Arabic forums I saw that they said two things...
     
    1- Ibn umar was reviving a sunnah or he was doing it optionally, and it is not a bidah and the shia are not blamed in this and are actually correct. (For example Imam shafii agreed with the shia on wearing aqeeq and raising the hands in qunut, and as An-nawawi mentions the shia did not innovate in this particular area).
     
    2- Ibn umar and zayn Al abideen (as) both were wrong and made a mistake (give me a break...).
     
     
    1-Let's look at the hadith and their authenticity.
    2- Let's look at their replies from both the Arabic forums and the English section.
    3- Let us then comment.
     
     
    So the first hadith is from Malik's al-muwata.
     
    حدثنا أبو أسامة قال أنا عبيد الله عن نافع قال كان ابن عمر زاد في أذانه حي على خير العمل
     
    Abu Usama said Ubaidallah reported to him from Naafi' that Ibn Umar would add in his Adhan hayya 'ala khayr l 'amol (come to the best work).
     
    End of hadith.
     
    As we can see the chain is very high (it has few intermediaries) and the men in it are of high status, ahlus sunnah are grade it sahih without question.
     
    The second hadith is found in the famous Musannaf of Ibn Abi shayba.
     
    حدثنا أبو بكر قال أنا حاتم بن إسماعيل عن جعفر عن أبيه ومسلم بن أبي مريم أن علي بن حسين كان يؤذن فإذا بلغ حي على الفلاح قال حي على خير العمل ويقول هو الأذان الأول .
     
    Abu bakr reported to us that haatim ibn ismael reported to him from Imam Jafar as saadiq (as) from his father (as) and muslim ibn abi maryam that Ali Ibn hussayin (Imam zayn al abideen) would say the adhan and if he came to the part of haya 'ala falaah he would say haya 'ala khayar l 'amol and he (Imam Ali ibn hussin) ع would say "this was the original adhan".
     
     
    The chain is authentic according to ahlus sunnah, none of them deny it's authenticity, also if you noticed they reported from our Imams as-saadiqayn ع.
     
     
     
    Now let us look at some of the replies from the English section from "[Edited Out]" may Allah make their children rafidhis..
     
     
    Mashallah, what would we do without Abdullah Bin Zayd al Ansari? Astaghfurallah how misguided these people are, we pose a question to our Sunni brethren why did Allah send the one of the largest aspects of the religion to a sahabi in a dream and not to the Prophet himself (ع)?  Such a hadith is an obvious fraud and hoax, let us laugh some more and look at the same hadith.
     
     
     
     
    So the prophet (ع) was so clueless and to the point where he ordered that a bell should be used like Christians, but then, alhamdulilah, Abdullah ibn zayd had a dream by Allah to correct the prophet's method.
     
    My dear rafidhi bretheren and sisters, I regress, let us go to their comments regarding these two authentic hadith, the nasaibi then says the following...
     
     
    In fact, he is the liar, he has no room to reject them as unauthentic, and I challenge them to do so, many of their scholars have even confirmed this hadith including shaykh al islam ibn taymiyya, trust me...he is shaykh al islam he is never wrong...never. (except when they feel like it), moving on...
     
     
    Subhanallah,we hear day and night from these people "we follow the companions we follow the companions, we follow ahlul bayt", and when two authentic hadith are presented to them showing how a companion the son of their 2nd caliph did the adhan and how a Mujtahid mutlaq from Ahlul bayt Imam zayn Al abideen did the adhan their proofs become void evidence. I applaud your intellects, not only did you just affirm that Ibn Umar would recite the adhan this way, you affirmed it, and then denied it as evidence.
     
    Regarding zayn al abideen let us see what he says.
     
     
    His argument amounts to the following, Imam Zayn al abideen was wrong and believed in fake hadith, and that he didn't see the way his father and brothers recited the adhan and assumed and made a mistake in believing false hadith and also misunderstanding hadith that were attributed to bilal, and Ibn umar was also mistaken.... la ilaha illa Allah....
     
     
     
    Thank you Sunnis of the English section, we benefited greatly from you, let us turn to the arabic forums.
     
    This is from an arabic forum, where a sunni is asking for an explanation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    POST 1
    سؤالي لكل الشيعه انا احترت اريد جواب : 1-هل هذا هو الاذان الذي كان ينادى به في عهد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  
    I have a question for all the shia, I would very much like the answer.
     
    1- Is this adhan the adhan that the Prophet (3) would call with in his time?
     
     
     
     
    POST 2
    كل شي عند الشيعة مبتدع ولم يثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا عن ال بيته الطيبين الطاهرين رضوان الله عليهم بل هو من تأليف المجوس تجدهم يتشابهون مع اليهود والنصارى في مسائل من كل دين يأخذون شيئا  Everything that is with the shia is made up and there isn't anything from them that is proven from the prophet nor from the ahlul bayt at tayyiben at tahireen radi Allah anhum. However this is from writers of the majus, you find them(shia) similar to the Jews and the Christians in their issues, they took from every religion.... 
     
    POST 3
     
     
    قال ابن عربي في الفتوحات المكية:... وأمّا من زاد في الأذان حيَّ على خير العمل فإن كان فُعل في زمان رسول الله ـ كما روي أنّ ذلك دعا به في غزوة الخندق ; إذ كان الناس يحفرون، فجاء وقت الصلاة وهي خير موضوع كما ورد في الحديث، فنادى المنادي أهل الخندق "حيَّ على خير العمل" ـ فما أخطأ مَن جعلها في الأذان، بل اقتدى إن صحّ الخبر، أو سنّ سنّة حسنة.الفتوحات المكية (1: 400)
     
    Ibn Arabi said in his futuhat al makiyya " As for who adds in his Adhan haya ala khayr l amol then this was actually done at the time of rasulallah (saw), this was also called with in the battle of khandaq, when the people were entrenched and the time for salah came, and this is the best of actions as the hadith narrates, so the caller would call to ahlul khandaq "haya ala khayr l amol", so it isn't a mistake whoever places this in the adhan but instead it is authentic information, and a practice that is sunnah hasana".
     
    POST 4
     
    We don't accept sufis as a proof upon us.
    POST 5
    My friend you feel embarrased for yourself to take the words of a sufi and you left the words of ibn umar, is ibn umar a sufi too?!
     
     
    POST 6
     
     
    مجموع فتاوى ابن تيمية - (ج 5 / ص 279) كَمَا يُعْلَمُ : " أَنَّ حَيَّ عَلَى خَيْرِ الْعَمَلِ " لَمْ يَكُنْ مِنْ الْأَذَانِ الرَّاتِبِ وَإِنَّمَا فَعَلَهُ بَعْضُ الصَّحَابَةِ لِعَارِضِ تَحْضِيضًا لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى الصَّلَاةِ   "majmu ibn taymiyya" "as it is known that haya ala khayr l amol is not from the proper adhan however some of the companions did it to urge people to pray". End of posts.   My final comments- Ibn tamiyya himself admits that this was the practice of the companions but makes the lame excuse that it was only a methodology for pushing people to pray, may Allah guide us ameen. 

    I invite the Sunnis to correct their adhan, thanks.
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