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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ugly Jinn

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Everything posted by Ugly Jinn

  1. That theory is focused on earlier times, which is a total guess, but what about now? Even for the sake of argument we accept Nietzsche's theory, it's 2015 now, why are overwhelming folks in the billions still believe in a supernatural being? Atheists are in the overwhelming minority. The above has no issues, the answer is 'Yes'. If you believe God is evil then the above will be true, there are 'Satanists' that believe that. If you believe God is good then 'God creates the definition of Good hence anything He does or doesn't do is Good. If you believe God is Evil then 'God creates the definition of Evil hence anything He does or doesn't do is Evil. If you believe God is Just then 'God creates the definition of Just hence anything He does or doesn't do is Just. If you believe God is Unjust then 'God creates the definition of Unjust hence anything He does or doesn't do is Unjust. All above scenarios are logically consistent, it all depends on what your belief of God is. --- Regarding God being Merciful and Just, that's a logical contradiction that's difficult to reconcile.
  2. Do you have the hadith where Askari vouched the first 2 ambassadors? Well, the masses did accept Imam Ali later. There are many theories as to why the masses didn't accept him earlier (him being young was one). Any idea how many 'shias' existed around this time? I think the naivety is assuming same rules apply to the concept of Prophethood and Imamat, because they don't. Hence all prophet examples.
  3. A sexually deprived conservative environment meets modern way of life which triggers their sexuality. India going through a transition to modernity is becoming incompatible with folks with old mentality. To put it in layman's terms, many men did not have access to seeing sexuality with ease in this manner (internet, porn, women wearing revealing clothing, sexier movies, etc.) which triggers this behavior in some men who are sexually frustrated. In time when the transition is complete the rapes will go down significantly. India is not even in the top 3, US/Sweden is higher (go figure). Every country has it's own reasons. Anyways, rapes is as old as humans, every country has rapes, it's not going anywhere for a while.
  4. I agree with above except the part where you believe theists are forcing an illogical theory regarding a supernatural being. I think both sides, atheists and theists have valid arguments. Theist's belief in supernatural existed prior to any of the holy books that were revealed, hence this theory is as old as humans. This supernaturally theory comes from plethora of places, not just one. You can go back in history and look at isolated tribes that had no contact or influence from the outside world believe in a supreme being/s. Why is that? Why does this theory/belief pop up everywhere? True. Two points: Even if we put religion aside, a theist can make a consistent argument that God created everything, He creates the definition of 'just', hence anything He does or doesn't do is just. The 'Mercifully Just' issue is an old one, and I will admit that there's a logical inconsistency. You have a valid point with that argument. I'm sure after reading that response you will realize I'm not hiding behind an Islamic curtain. I am very unbiased. I believe an argument, from start to finish, has to be consistent for a specific topic.
  5. Conservatism mentality clashing with modernism.
  6. The content is irrelevant to my question. He started at 5, do the math. I went through the narrations, is there a narration where 12th Imam is declaring his 4 deputies? But what was the response of the Muslim masses at that time? Are there any references as to why the masses rejected 12th Imam as an Imam? I am pretty sure age had a factor because back then the elders were considered highly.
  7. You totally missed the point. No. 'We' is subjective, God isn't. Even using your extreme scenario, if God defined rape as just then Muslims would consider it just also. When you say 'How do you know?', you mean absolute truth? If so, we don't know, we believe. Most religious folks think they know, it's just their emotions talking. But from an Islamic perspective, if a person is a Muslim, he/she believes that God is just because logically God dictates the definition (ex. just, mercy, etc.) - so anything He does or doesn't do is just. I do not believe every information in or beyond this universe will make logical sense, we are too limited to attain absolute logic. To believe that humans can objectively determine whether every aspect of existence is logical or not is erroneous. We do our best to comprehend, and are successful to a degree, but we will never reach absolute status. To your second part, the coping is simple to understand, as I said, if a person believes every action/inaction of God is Just because He defines 'just' (regardless to our opinion, which is subjective), then there is no contradiction.
  8. The answer to your question is 'yes'. The best evidence is in the Quran, the story of Moses and Kidhr. Khidr action's were considered unjust by Moses (a prophet), yet according to God it was just. Hence, the only logical definition for a person that believes God is Just is that God defines justice. Not out the window, it becomes subjective. It would be illogical for the creation to dictate the definitions for the Creator, it should be the other way around. It's not really 'might makes right', it's more like 'creator is the decider' (doesn't rhyme as well as yours). To your second part, logic is in a way subjective. Why Create? Is there a logical reason behind it?
  9. Why is Pakistan joining Saudi? Always been a trash country.
  10. Thanks for so many narrations, I'm gonna go over it with time. So the hadith narrated by 12th Imam above was when he was 4-5 years old? I'm having difficulties imagining a baby giving orders/lectures. Do you blame the people if they weren't willing to accept a baby to lead?
  11. Not a dilemma for me. The Euthyphro's dilemma was, "Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" The question again is 'who' decides what pious is? From an Islamic perspective God decides what pious is hence the answer is 'pious is loved because it is loved by God'. From a theological perceptive, if the Creator dictates the definition of 'just' then what he does is Just, irrelevant to what we think. Hence the problem. If God exists, we can't define 'just' on His behalf. It is He who will define the word.
  12. The 12th Imam was 5 years old he appointed 4 deputies before his occultation. The 4 deputies are: Uthman ibn Sa’id al-Asadi († 873-80) Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Uthman ibn Sa’id al-Asadi († 917) Abul Qasim Husayn ibn Ruh al-Nawbakhti († 938) Abul Hasan Ali ibn Muhammad al-Samarri († 941) I am looking for hadith that are directly narrated by the 5 individuals above.
  13. I made a post yesterday it got deleted. Anyways, no big deal.
  14. So a mod deleted my message without any reasons. Some things never change on this forum.
  15. The logic is dependent on the definition of the word 'just'. If we define 'just' as "Whatever the Creator decides is just", then there is no issue. If we define 'just' as "Whatever humans decide is just", then there are issues. The 2 above can contradict, that's where the problem arises from a human's perspective and it's the essence of your question. But if a person believes that whatever God does is just, regardless to what he/she thinks, then there is a consistent argument to believe God is Just.
  16. As much as many Shias like to turn members of Ahlul Bayt into demigods, the Prophet was a normal human being with free will. He took showers, went to the bathroom, got sick, etc., just like all human beings do. His free dictated his choice of wife/s, friends, companions, etc., unless God commanded otherwise. Those who believe the Prophet knew the future regarding Ayesha yet still married her because it's a test are the ones that consider Ahlul Bayt demigods. They won't admit it but that's their belief.
  17. Morocco is being forced by Saudi to get involved. Morocco has no interest in Yemen which is thousands of miles away on another continent, nor does it have any issues with Shias per se. Morocco has to give in to Saudi pressure because Saudi has the biggest big influence over the Arab Sunni countries. If it was upto Morocco only they wouldn't have gotten involved.
  18. People are inserting their emotions to re-write history. Imam Hussain was in process to gain support to confront Yazid, that was the whole purpose of him going to Kufa, which was controlled by Yazid.If Imam Hussain reached Kufa or gotten support elswhere then he would've facedYazidYazid knew Imam Hussain's intentions hence Karbala. To state that he didn't want to be the caliph or would sit idle while Yazid ruled contradicts history. This is an incorrect statement "Husayn would have chosen to conquer his enemies. But he did not". The correct historical statement is "Husayn chose to conquer his enemies. But he could not". The Ummah didn't support Imam Hussain, many abandoned him (or just didn't want to goto war).
  19. The bayat was a secondary issue, not the origin of the conflict. Yazid wanted allegiance from everyone, and harassed everyone, Imam Hussain kept asking for delay. The conflict started when Imam Hussain started to build an army/support against Yazid. The specific event you are talking about where 'Imam Husayn allowed to go back to...' was after the conflict started and Imam Hussain was in process of going to Kufa for support. Imam Hussain was again given the option to give bayat while camped outside but didn't. Mikhnaf reports this in detail. The agreement Imam Hasan had with Muawiya was broken. There are hadiths confirming what Imam Hussain wanted, and the caliphate was the main condition. Which was rightfully so. Yazid did breach the contract. Narrated by Ahmed ibn Thabit: When Hurr ibn Yazid (Yazid ibn Muawiya's governors) and his men had encountered with Imam Hussain and his followers, Imam Hussain said to Hurr ibn Yazid's followers after praying the Salat Asr: "We are the family of the Prophet (SAAW), and we deserve more right of authority (wilayah or khilafah) then the current government (Yazid Ibn Muawiya), who have brought tyranny and aggression among the people. You have written letters to me (for you to help me)." Hurr ibn Yazid said, "we (and our men) have not written letters." Imam Hussain showed all the letters to Hurr ibn Yazid and his men. http://hadithlistcollection.blogspot.com/2010/12/history-of-karbala-from-book-history-of.html (the link also has many bayat narrations by Mikhnaf) Then why did Imam Hussain go towards Kufa in the first place? To build an army. Imam Hussain started the process of going against Yazid.Even if Yazid allowed Imam Hussain to go back you think Imam Hussain would not fight Yazid in the future (once he builds an army which he was trying to do)? Imam Hussain was preparing to overthrow Yazeed hence was building an army, so a war would've happened regardless (unless Yazeed dismissed himself as a caliph and handed to Imam Hussain). I am not defending Yazid, there are plethora of narrations showing his true self. But w cannot ignore the fundamental fact that Imam Hussain did want the caliphate, which was a condition agreed by Hassan & Muawiyah.
  20. That's totally untrue. The agreement Imam Hasan had with Muawiya had a condition that Imam Hussain would be the successor after Muawiya (if Imam Hasan wasn't alive). So the main reason for this conflict was for the caliphate. The successorship condition was broken hence the conflict. If after Muawiya's death the caliphate went to Imam Hussain then there would be no Karbala. Shias like to keep saying injustice, sacrifice, etc., but don't include for power/caliphate because it sounds bad, but that's the reality.
  21. No one said not to goto Karbala, but to equate the pilgrimage to Karbala to Hajj is against what Allah said.
  22. I'll just re-post what I said in my post which you quoted: "The problem is that Shias will latch on to any hadith which propels/exaggerates the status of Ahlul Bayt, this obsession creates ghulat beliefs (ex. "hussain saved islam", "Ali at gate of heaven", "hasan and hussain leaders in heaven", etc.). These are the ghulat beliefs are created because the love trumps logic." Nah. I'm just not a 'Hadithist' like many Shias, Hadith > Quran.
  23. There is nothing to lead in heaven, hence having leaders is illogical and contradictory. Prophets/Imams do not have perpetual authority. Their objective is to guide in this world, that's it - their authority is void in the afterlife. To continue with the point above. Prophets/Imams responsibility is to convey the scripture (God's words), that's it. Quran will be void in the afterlife, hence those responsible for passing God's words have no relevance Quran does not state anything of this nature whatsoeverI can go on... The problem is that Shias will latch on to any hadith which propels/exaggerates the status of Ahlul Bayt, this obsession creates ghulat beliefs (ex. "hussain saved islam", "Ali at gate of heaven", "hasan and hussain leaders in heaven", etc.). These are the ghulat beliefs are created because the love trumps logic. Ahlul Bayt were mortals like us given a big responsibility, there is no need for ghulat beliefs: [41:6] Say (unto them O Muhammad): I am only a mortal like you. It is inspired in me that your Allah is One Allah, therefor take the straight path unto Him and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe unto the idolaters, These ghulat beliefs clearly contradict the Quran, but Shias will find someway to find a hadith to interpret it differently.
  24. Comparing the pilgrimage of Hajj to Kerbala is like comparing Allah to Hussain.
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