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King

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  1. Like
    King got a reaction from Maryaam in W.I.M. wimmin   
    Hajj I never see you criticizing the harsh judgement hurled at posters who post these topics.  How is that not damaging to Islam and its institutions? I would argue it is even more damaging and I hardly ever see you call such things out.   To stretch so far as to come up with this theory is just bizarre as there are far easier ways to malign religion and its institutions rather than coming up with these posts.  I would take your concerns a lot more seriously if you were a bit more balanced in your approach.
  2. Like
    King got a reaction from Maryaam in W.I.M. wimmin   
    Hajj I never see you criticizing the harsh judgement hurled at posters who post these topics.  How is that not damaging to Islam and its institutions? I would argue it is even more damaging and I hardly ever see you call such things out.   To stretch so far as to come up with this theory is just bizarre as there are far easier ways to malign religion and its institutions rather than coming up with these posts.  I would take your concerns a lot more seriously if you were a bit more balanced in your approach.
  3. Like
    King reacted to Maryaam in W.I.M. wimmin   
    It is best to take posters at their word - because we do not know the reality/unreality or whether their post is exaggeration or underreporting.  Judging someone’s integrity, honesty and level of religiosity based on a few words online is beyond bizarre.  Sure there are trolls, but the post might be genuine and you need to take Muslims at their word unless you have valid reason to believe they are being dishonest.  Online you never know what you dealing with.  The person might be a jaded troll but they also could be someone who is very much on the edge and is posting in desperation.  How would you like to be wrong?
      People are often in difficulty based on bad choices, or sadly, based on the choices of others.  I think that once someone can actually write out what kind of a mess they are in and post it online, they are fully aware of what those bad choices were.  I am sure they do not need to have a member point out what an evil schmuck they are.  It is not helpful.  The pointer-outer comes across as someone who has self-imposed faux moral and religious superiority getting a quick esteem fix by pointing out the faults of others whom they see as inferior to themselves.  Not helpful to anyone - ironically, including themselves.   People disappear after posting because they were either trolls, are wishing they did not post in the first place (and ask for their post to be removed) are embarrassed or humiliated by one or more responses, or feel they have received validation enough to tackle their issue in suggested ways.   If one post can cause extreme turmoil, the problem is not with the poster but with the lack of cohesion within the community members.  If something like a post pushes us off the rails into mayhem, then we have some serious work to do in terms of addressing ongoing misunderstandings that create battlefields when there is even the slightest opportunity.  
  4. Like
    King got a reaction from yusur317 in Islam and Feminism   
    If you take a look at your original blog post, it is loaded with gross generalizations and over-simplifications.  Now you seem to be elaborating on specifics and this contemporary third wave of feminism.  This is fine, and I acknowledge that some self described feminists today have lost the plot and and employ aggressive tactics which are detrimental to women's causes.  I still am not convinced that most feminists today are against the institution of marriage or are pro porn etc. Yes I realize that the institution of marriage has always had it's detractors, a lot of them male, and this would be true of any institution.  The institution seems to be struggling due to a lot of factors discussed above in this thread, it isn't that most serious feminists are out there encouraging their female counterparts to avoid the institution all together. We have already discussed the primary drivers for women seeking education and employment.  Also, most research in the west establishes the important role of both parents in a child's development, and women are generally encouraged by professionals to avoid having late pregnancies.
    Legalizing prostitution however is an interesting question.  The arguments are backed in part by proposals based on a review of the practical consequences of prohibitive practices employed in different societies.  Legalization of drugs is also interesting, as in some societies this has led to a significant decline in overall drug related deaths and pathologies.  I do not feel the core of these arguments are driven purely by ideology and you cannot equate being for legalization with being for prostitution, so that inference above is not fair.
    Thirdly, I do not see what is so surprising about the women's movement in general ignoring the suffering of men.  Most movements tend to be specific and primarily focus on the trials of the group they are trying to represent.  It would be better if this was not the case, but to expect otherwise is not realistic.
  5. Like
    King got a reaction from eloquence in Islam and Feminism   
    It isn't just to challenge male domination for the heck of it, it is a matter of finding practical solutions in a certain kind of society.  What is wrong with encouraging women to achieve financial independence in state capitalist societies?  You can live in a dream world and think about a patriarchal utopia as well, where single or dependent women are well taken care of, but that isn't the predicament most women have found themselves in. 
    Okay, so you have identified the problem, you suggest a middle ground?  That is easy to suggest but how do you achieve this? It is easy to say marriage and children should be the first priority and I agree, but we both realize that for most women it isn't a matter of choice. So how is the women's rights movement to blame? I agree that such pursuits leave tremendous strain on marriages and are detrimental to the development of children, but I don't see how you can primarily put this on feminism.  Businesses are always looking to pit workers against each other, it used to be children before, it is women and foreign workers today.
    Okay, well at least you are being a little more specific now, even though I highly doubt most feminists today are against the institution of marriage.
    It isn't, most features of capitalism run against the very core values of the women's rights movement.
    Yes, and islamic movements don't reek of utopianism?
    Again, this is exactly the nature of rhetoric you see on fox news regarding muslims.  Most feminists still see porn as objectification of women, because it is, and I highly doubt most are interested in naked protests, you seem to be drawing a lot of your conclusions based on sensationalist nonsense in the media. 
  6. Like
    King got a reaction from Ruq in Islam and Feminism   
    I am a bit confused, did you write this? 
    Since when does feminism (whatever your definition is) promote climbing the corporate ladder? And since when does capitalism promote feminism?  You can make a much stronger argument that capitalism is by definition against women's emancipation and promotes involuntary servitude.  Again, feminism has become a loaded term, the women's movement has a rich and complex history.  In general, it is about women's emancipation, and in general you should stick to this general definition. When you decide to offer criticism you should be more specific, not just in your criticisms but the specific aspects of the highly varied feminist movement you are addressing. I am assuming this is the least of what you would expect from those who criticize patriarchal systems or organized religion.  Unfortunately like it is with Islam these days, only the loud and obnoxious characters tend to hog the spotlight.  There have been and are countless prominent feminist intellectuals that would be dead set against half the things you say feminism strives to achieve.
  7. Like
    King reacted to Bakir in Islam and Feminism   
    Excess of data isnt much different from absolute abscence of it.
    Your discourse seems to be biased by a personal reaction against the worst forms of "feminism" that eclipses all the other approaches. Curiously enough, the people that could be described to be within those "feminist circles" tend to be ignorant of the original feminist ideas. Also, as King, I don't see a real link a priori between feminism and capitalism at all.
    I am not a feminist in that sense myself, but hold a different view of what feminism means by reading the authors I think I have to read, for instance Simone de Beauvoir. Were I to consider EVEN MENTION groups like FEMEN, I wouldn't be talking about "feminism". It is a poor way to make a point that is not even worth making this way.
    I expected a much better discourse, especially because we don't have to use such poor resources to make a good point on feminism and the islamic point of view. There are great Egyptian authors whose research and articles of female psychology and Islam would be more constructive than a critique addressing FEMEN or other groups that are popularly hated. And definitely, such approch would serve a purpose here in ShiaChat. I doubt anyone among us would support the current "pseudo feminists" ideals.
  8. Like
    King got a reaction from Ruq in Islam and Feminism   
    I am a bit confused, did you write this? 
    Since when does feminism (whatever your definition is) promote climbing the corporate ladder? And since when does capitalism promote feminism?  You can make a much stronger argument that capitalism is by definition against women's emancipation and promotes involuntary servitude.  Again, feminism has become a loaded term, the women's movement has a rich and complex history.  In general, it is about women's emancipation, and in general you should stick to this general definition. When you decide to offer criticism you should be more specific, not just in your criticisms but the specific aspects of the highly varied feminist movement you are addressing. I am assuming this is the least of what you would expect from those who criticize patriarchal systems or organized religion.  Unfortunately like it is with Islam these days, only the loud and obnoxious characters tend to hog the spotlight.  There have been and are countless prominent feminist intellectuals that would be dead set against half the things you say feminism strives to achieve.
  9. Like
    King got a reaction from eloquence in Islam and Feminism   
    It isn't just to challenge male domination for the heck of it, it is a matter of finding practical solutions in a certain kind of society.  What is wrong with encouraging women to achieve financial independence in state capitalist societies?  You can live in a dream world and think about a patriarchal utopia as well, where single or dependent women are well taken care of, but that isn't the predicament most women have found themselves in. 
    Okay, so you have identified the problem, you suggest a middle ground?  That is easy to suggest but how do you achieve this? It is easy to say marriage and children should be the first priority and I agree, but we both realize that for most women it isn't a matter of choice. So how is the women's rights movement to blame? I agree that such pursuits leave tremendous strain on marriages and are detrimental to the development of children, but I don't see how you can primarily put this on feminism.  Businesses are always looking to pit workers against each other, it used to be children before, it is women and foreign workers today.
    Okay, well at least you are being a little more specific now, even though I highly doubt most feminists today are against the institution of marriage.
    It isn't, most features of capitalism run against the very core values of the women's rights movement.
    Yes, and islamic movements don't reek of utopianism?
    Again, this is exactly the nature of rhetoric you see on fox news regarding muslims.  Most feminists still see porn as objectification of women, because it is, and I highly doubt most are interested in naked protests, you seem to be drawing a lot of your conclusions based on sensationalist nonsense in the media. 
  10. Like
    King got a reaction from Ruq in Islam and Feminism   
    I am a bit confused, did you write this? 
    Since when does feminism (whatever your definition is) promote climbing the corporate ladder? And since when does capitalism promote feminism?  You can make a much stronger argument that capitalism is by definition against women's emancipation and promotes involuntary servitude.  Again, feminism has become a loaded term, the women's movement has a rich and complex history.  In general, it is about women's emancipation, and in general you should stick to this general definition. When you decide to offer criticism you should be more specific, not just in your criticisms but the specific aspects of the highly varied feminist movement you are addressing. I am assuming this is the least of what you would expect from those who criticize patriarchal systems or organized religion.  Unfortunately like it is with Islam these days, only the loud and obnoxious characters tend to hog the spotlight.  There have been and are countless prominent feminist intellectuals that would be dead set against half the things you say feminism strives to achieve.
  11. Like
    King got a reaction from fatemah kareema in For Those Who Are Deliberately Delaying Marriage..   
    The passage in isolation is utter nonsense and seems like propaganda, I can't think of any other explanation.  I hope the author had the decency to at least include some qualifiers or exceptions as to not make older single individuals feel more miserable than they already do, or to delude others who are otherwise happy.  Painting these one sided pictures is never a good idea.
     
  12. Like
    King got a reaction from Sumayyeh in Sisters-Choose The God-Fearing Man   
    I like your creative rebranding of hypocritical, nice post.
  13. Like
    King got a reaction from Ruq in Islam and Feminism   
    I am a bit confused, did you write this? 
    Since when does feminism (whatever your definition is) promote climbing the corporate ladder? And since when does capitalism promote feminism?  You can make a much stronger argument that capitalism is by definition against women's emancipation and promotes involuntary servitude.  Again, feminism has become a loaded term, the women's movement has a rich and complex history.  In general, it is about women's emancipation, and in general you should stick to this general definition. When you decide to offer criticism you should be more specific, not just in your criticisms but the specific aspects of the highly varied feminist movement you are addressing. I am assuming this is the least of what you would expect from those who criticize patriarchal systems or organized religion.  Unfortunately like it is with Islam these days, only the loud and obnoxious characters tend to hog the spotlight.  There have been and are countless prominent feminist intellectuals that would be dead set against half the things you say feminism strives to achieve.
  14. Like
    King got a reaction from Ruq in Islam and Feminism   
    I am a bit confused, did you write this? 
    Since when does feminism (whatever your definition is) promote climbing the corporate ladder? And since when does capitalism promote feminism?  You can make a much stronger argument that capitalism is by definition against women's emancipation and promotes involuntary servitude.  Again, feminism has become a loaded term, the women's movement has a rich and complex history.  In general, it is about women's emancipation, and in general you should stick to this general definition. When you decide to offer criticism you should be more specific, not just in your criticisms but the specific aspects of the highly varied feminist movement you are addressing. I am assuming this is the least of what you would expect from those who criticize patriarchal systems or organized religion.  Unfortunately like it is with Islam these days, only the loud and obnoxious characters tend to hog the spotlight.  There have been and are countless prominent feminist intellectuals that would be dead set against half the things you say feminism strives to achieve.
  15. Like
    King got a reaction from fatemah kareema in For Those Who Are Deliberately Delaying Marriage..   
    The passage in isolation is utter nonsense and seems like propaganda, I can't think of any other explanation.  I hope the author had the decency to at least include some qualifiers or exceptions as to not make older single individuals feel more miserable than they already do, or to delude others who are otherwise happy.  Painting these one sided pictures is never a good idea.
     
  16. Like
    King got a reaction from fatemah kareema in For Those Who Are Deliberately Delaying Marriage..   
    The passage in isolation is utter nonsense and seems like propaganda, I can't think of any other explanation.  I hope the author had the decency to at least include some qualifiers or exceptions as to not make older single individuals feel more miserable than they already do, or to delude others who are otherwise happy.  Painting these one sided pictures is never a good idea.
     
  17. Like
    King got a reaction from fatemah kareema in For Those Who Are Deliberately Delaying Marriage..   
    The passage in isolation is utter nonsense and seems like propaganda, I can't think of any other explanation.  I hope the author had the decency to at least include some qualifiers or exceptions as to not make older single individuals feel more miserable than they already do, or to delude others who are otherwise happy.  Painting these one sided pictures is never a good idea.
     
  18. Like
    King got a reaction from fatemah kareema in For Those Who Are Deliberately Delaying Marriage..   
    The passage in isolation is utter nonsense and seems like propaganda, I can't think of any other explanation.  I hope the author had the decency to at least include some qualifiers or exceptions as to not make older single individuals feel more miserable than they already do, or to delude others who are otherwise happy.  Painting these one sided pictures is never a good idea.
     
  19. Like
    King got a reaction from fatemah kareema in For Those Who Are Deliberately Delaying Marriage..   
    The passage in isolation is utter nonsense and seems like propaganda, I can't think of any other explanation.  I hope the author had the decency to at least include some qualifiers or exceptions as to not make older single individuals feel more miserable than they already do, or to delude others who are otherwise happy.  Painting these one sided pictures is never a good idea.
     
  20. Like
    King got a reaction from fatemah kareema in For Those Who Are Deliberately Delaying Marriage..   
    The passage in isolation is utter nonsense and seems like propaganda, I can't think of any other explanation.  I hope the author had the decency to at least include some qualifiers or exceptions as to not make older single individuals feel more miserable than they already do, or to delude others who are otherwise happy.  Painting these one sided pictures is never a good idea.
     
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