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In the Name of God بسم الله


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  1. Don't take your words back . Let us see who are liars , me or your Hujjas : 01. It is narrated on the authority of Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatima, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (Khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl?” She said: “Is it true what you say? He said three times: “What I say is true.” Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah. He said: And Fatima’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it until night time…she moved to her father’s residence. Ali came to his residence and did not see Fatima and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it. When the Prophet saw how sad and anguished Fatima was, he poured water over himself and wore his clothes and entered the Masjid. He kept praying, making Rukoo and Sujood, and after every time he completed two Raka he made Du’a that Allah remove what Fatima had of sadness and anguish because he left her turning over and breathing heavily. When the Prophet saw that she could not sleep and could not rest he said: “O daughter, rise!” So she rose and the Prophet carried Al-Hassan and she carried Al-Hussain and took hold of Umm Kulthoom’s hand until they reached Ali (as) while he was sleeping. The Prophet put his foot on Ali, pinched him, and said: “Rise Abu Turab! You have disturbed many a resting person. Call for me Abu Bakr from his house and Umar from his Majlis and Talha.” So Ali went and got them from their houses and they gathered around the Messenger of Allah. The Messenger of Allah then said: “O Ali! Do you not know that Fatima is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death.” (source: Ibn Babveh Al Qummi’s “Elal Al-Sharae’”, pp.185-186, Al-Najaf Print; also narrated in Majlisi “Bihar” 43/201-202) 02. Al-Qummi and Al-Majlisi narrated on the authority of Abu Thar: I migrated with Jafar ibn Abi Talib to Abyssynia. A slave girl worth 4,000 dirhams was given to Jafar as a gift. When we came to Medinah he gave it to Ali as a gift that she may serve him. Ali kept her in Fatima’s house. One day Fatima entered and saw that his head was in the girl’s lap. She said: “O Abu Al-Hasan! Have you done it!?” He said: “O daughter of Muhammad! I have done nothing, so what is it that you want?” She said: “Do you allow me to go to my father’s house?” He said: “I will allow you.” So she wore her Jilbab and went to the Prophet. (source: Ibn Babaveh Al-Qummi’s “Elal Al-Sharae’”, p.163; it is also narrated in Bihar Al-Anwar, pp.43-44, Chapter on “How her life with Ali was”) 03. “When Fatima asked for Fadak from Abu Bakr and he refused to give it to her, she returned full of anger that could not be described and she was sick; and she was angry with Ali because he refused to help her.” (Source : Al-Majlisi’s Haqq-ul-Yaqeen, pp.203-204; also recorded in Al-Tusi’s Amali, p.295) I am a Muslim and asked me first whether did Almighty Allah care even to mention the name of Ali or Fatima in the Quran . I am singing Shia chorus here . To me Abu Bakr , Umar , Fatima or Ali mean nothing because they are nothing to Almighty Allah .
  2. You mention verse 4:59 which didn't give an iota of hints that 12 Imams are ulul Amr . To remind you again that the card in your hand to play the game is the evidence of Imamat from the Qur'an . Don't take any Tafsir or Hadith in between , otherwise cancel the name of the thread .
  3. Nothing wrong with that . My grandfather invented the time machine and you know where it is ? It didn't exist in reality but It is written in his diary that he has invented it . :D
  4. Firstly , You didn't look into the verse I presented . Secondly , Almighty Allah revealed the Qur'an not Gabriel . Gabriel only carried what Almighty GOD revealed . Ruh is GOD's command(s) , hence no portion there for angels . Mother and Father don't have any contribution to create human . Its GOD alone who create them . Adam was created without parents and Isa was created without father . Hence noway Almighty Allah took anybody as HIS assistance when HE , the Exalted refer Himself as 'WE' . Again WE is just a Majestic Plural expressing GOD's greatness , according to grammatical point of view .
  5. As Ahadith and Sirah concern Abu Bakr died with Iman and with good Amal . Verse 9:98, 9:99 , 9:100 , 9:101 , 9:102 all start with 'Wa' . I can't see any reason why we need to assume that in 9:100 Muhajirun were the dead persons , rather each and every translators regard Sabiqoona Awwaluna as the quality :
  6. The verse is talking about the foremost of the Muhajirun and obviously according Shia and Sunni reports , Abu Bakr is one of them . Secondly Abu Bakr was not hypocrite. Lastly, Fatima was also angry with Ali on several occasions , did that mean Almighty Allah was not pleased with Ali ? As the failed Sailor Yahya already informed you that I give a little credit to fabricated Sunni/Shia Ahdith and Sirah literatures unless it 100% agree with the infallible book of Allah , i.e., the Qur’an , save it in your memory for future .
  7. 01-Abu Bakr had the most honorable migration , with the Prophet himself . And who migrated first Ali or Abu Bakr ? 02- Almighty Allah pleased with Abu Bakr as well .
  8. Are you denying that Abu Bakr was a Muhajir ?
  9. You seem to associate others with Almighty Allah in terms of HIS actions and self-sufficiency . You are risking yourself into Shirk bro . The concept of majestic plural is the safest explanation in this regard which is admitted and legalized by all grammarians of all the languages in the world . Check this one out : [2:34] æÅÐ ÞáäÇ ááãáÇÆßÉ ÇÓÌÏæÇ áÂÏã ÝÓÌÏæÇ ÅáÇ ÅÈáíÓ ÃÈì æÇÓÊßÈÑ æßÇä ãä ÇáßÇÝÑíä And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers. The above verse clearly depicted that Almighty Allah alone said to the angels to surrender to Adam , still plural was used . This expressed HIS honor , excellence and greatness .
  10. [009:100] And (as for) the foremost, the first of the Muhajirs and the Ansars, and those who followed them in goodness, Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them for ever; that is the mighty achievement. Both Shia and Sunni agree on the fact that Abu Bakr was among the Muhajirs and especially did hijrah with the Prophet himself . Hence all the qualities and good news of paradise must be applied to him , without a shadow of doubt .
  11. That is very true . I observed the same thing . My wife left Shiasm because of this reason . Its Almighty Allah's mercy , whomever HE , the Exalted bestow open hearts to think rationally . Brother Elite . The concept of Imamah is the Usoole Din of Shiasm , hence it demands very clear and straight forward evidences from the Qur’an . We wouldn’t mind if it would be the Furue Din and hence absent from the Qur’an . Can you show us clearer , well-comprehensible and straight forward verses of the Qur’an on the concept of 12 Imams ? And please don't divert the thread to something which is unnecessary .
  12. Ask this question to your Shia scholars and post them here . I bet they will say the same I told you but you r not going to listen to me no matter how much I bang my head in the stone . I have experience with you that you just continue to argue on unnecessary things .
  13. OMG ! This just the first time somebody telling me that Majestic Plural has been used in the Qur’an for a human apart from Almighty Allah . You even didn’t read the links I pasted from Shia sources only . Anyway I will not mind to let you wandering in this misguidance if you think Ali is god . :) Hypothetical is your understanding , not mine . The verse is in plural which is reality and to think it is singular is just not hypothetical but also sign of metal disorder . إنما وليكم الله ورسوله والذين آمنوا الذين يقيمون الصلاة ويؤتون الزكاة وهم راكعون 5:55 الذين آمنو يقيمون يؤتون راكعون All the above words are Plural . Now people can see whose brain is hypothetical . Okay , now lets talk about challenge . Before that I must need to inform you , also for your future mingle with me , I AM NOT A SUNNI . Hence Sunni Tafsir and Ahadith are as useless to me as the Shias' are . Almighty Allah already answered your questions in that very verse . Those people are the Wali : 01- الذين آمنو = Who have believed 02- ا الذين يقيمون الصلاة = Who establish Salah 03-ا الذين يؤتون الزكاة = Whomever bring forth Zakah 04-هم راكعون = Who bow Whomever endowed with these four qualities are the Wali . This verse is open for any time to come and free from any centralization , e.g., for any specific persons or any specific groups . Take care and good night .
  14. Majestic Plural never been used through out any Semitic literature . But its usages are observed scattering in them , e.g., Qur'an and Bible both . Here is more reading for you : http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234958713-the-majestic-we http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/51625-uniplurality-in-the-hebrew-scriptures http://www.al-islam.org/falsafa/48.htm
  15. Though the OP named the thread as the evidences of Imamat from the Qur’an , I can’t see a single even now . What I see a flood of Ahaith from almost 60% corrupted book Al-Kafi . Can’t Shia prove this Usoole Din from the Qur’an only ??
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