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In the Name of God بسم الله

Significance of 12

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Posts posted by Significance of 12

  1. I can't be certain. You will find some narrations attributed to Ibn Abbas, but I can't be certain about their authenticity. However, all these statements are similar to what can be found attributed to Malik and Ahmad. You won't find anything clearer than "they will see Allah". I mean, something like "you will see Allah literally and not metaphorically," was language that wasn't common at the time.

    Correct me if i'm wrong brother. I know its been long since this thread was opened and you might not be even following it. My understanding about Allah was He is the creator of space, time and matter and for Him to show himself in any form would fall into these categories, meaning He is Creator, not Created and hence cannot put himself within the realms of Created at any point.


  2. This is one of the days of the year i don't like 'cause some are celebrating Eid while some like me are still fasting, not knowing which one is right. Im from Toronto, and our takiyya Khana here announced Eid but said nothing about moonsighting, velayat TV channel says its on wednesday. Missing one day of ramadhan isn't good, fasting on Eid isn't any good either. What to do?

  3. I always found this section quiet particularly disturbing...it could be more or less sex slavery (and people did buy slaves for these purposes, at least some, im sure no one will deny this)

    It's obviously open to abuse when you are a slave owner and have a position of power over your slave. My interpretation of the verse was that you did not even need to marry them but i guess i was wrong.

    I'd also like to draw your attention to this article - https://secure.wikim...lam#Concubinage

    People will shoot me down for this, however, i think you should read the quran in the 7th century context in which it was given to humanity. Not necessarily a steadfast book to be obeyed letter by letter for all time. For instance the quran talks about saabians as being people of the book and there are only a handful of them left.

    Islam did bring about a bettering of the rights and conditions of slaves, the slaves were slightly better off under islamic law but they were still slaves. Unpaid, unfree, labourers for the benefit of their master, traded like a commodity. It did not say slavery is not permissible, which would of been the next logical step. I mean how would you like to be sold and made to work against your will, without living out your life or any of your dreams ever?

    Obviously slavery has no place in the modern world but if you interpret the quran a certain way you could use it as justification for owning slaves and indeed many people in Africa still do.

    Slavery was obviously the luxury for Arabs at that time ( everywhere for that matter), and Our Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) wanted to abolish it but it wouldn't be that easy. slavery is the worst way of treating a human and its after effects stays for generations and even millenniums. Like the case of United states, Ibrahim Lincoln did the best he could by making it illegal (atleast for confederacy) and finally long after his death, it was made unlawful. but you see the effects are still there and ever growing. the hate and animosity is never relieved. because the person dignity, self respect and human values are at stake.

    so our holy prophet had a better plan by the will of Allah. he didn't abolish it. but he said who ever buys a slave, should feed him, shelter him, clothe him, protect him.....secondly educate them, thirdly teach them skills and trades and finally release them after one year

    As far as sex slavery is concerned, it was at high peaks among Arabs but the prophet abolished that completely. slaves were there to make your life easier not to quench your thirst and desire for sex just because you were bored of your wife.

  4. Salam

    Good point, but I think a chronological order would have made things complicated, like regarding sharia.

    That's why you will find all (or most) ayats related to marriage/divorce in the same surah for example.

    I believe the ayas within the surah have always been in the chronological order, i meant the the ordering of surahs like below:

    Chronology Vs. Actual Order

    1 The Clot (-96-)

    2 The Pen (-68-)

    3 The Enshrouded One (-73-)

    4 The Cloaked One (-74-)

    5 The Opening (-1-)

    6 Palm Fibre (-111-)

    7 The Overthrowing (-81-)

    8 The Most High (-87-)

    9 The Night (-92-)

    10 The Dawn (-89-)

    11 The Morning Hours (-93-)

    12 Solace (-94-)

    13 The Declining Day (-103-)

    14 The Coursers (-100-)

    15 Abundance (-108-)

    16 Rivalry in Worldly Increase (-102-)

    17 Small Kindnesses (-107-)

    18 The Disbelievers (-109-)

    19 The Elephant (-105-)

    20 The Daybreak (-113-)

    21 Mankind (-114-)

    22 The Unity (-112-)

    23 The Star (-53-)

    24 He Frowned (-80-)

    25 Power (-97-)

    26 The Sun (-91-)

    27 The Mansions of the Stars (-85-)

    28 The Fig (-95-)

    29 Winter or Qureysh (-106-)

    30 The Calamity (-101-)

    31 The Rising of the Dead (-75-)

    32 The Traducer (-104-)

    33 The Emissaries (-77-)

    34 Oaf (-50-)

    35 The City (-90-)

    36 The Morning Star (-86-)

    37 The Moon (-54-)

    38 Sad (-38-)

    39 The Heights (-7-)

    40 The Jinn (-72-)

    41 Ya Sin (-41-)

    42 Criterion (-42-)

    43 The Angels (-35-)

    44 Mary (-19-)

    45 Ta Ha (-20-)

    46 The Event (-56-)

    47 The Poets (-26-)

    48 The Ant (-27-)

    49 The Story (-28-)

    50 The Children of Israel (-17-)

    51 Jonah (-10-)

    52 Hud (-11-)

    53 Joseph (-12-)

    54 Al-Hijr (-15-)

    55 Cattle (-6-)

    56 Those Who Set the Ranks (-37-)

    57 Luqman (-31-)

    58 Saba (-34-)

    59 The Troops (-39-)

    60 The Believer (-40-)

    61 Fusilat (-41-)

    62 Counsel (-42-)

    63 Ornaments of Gold (-43-)

    64 Smoke (-44-)

    65 Crouching (-45-)

    66 The Wind-Curved Sandhills (-46-)

    67 The Winnowing Winds (-51-)

    68 The Overwhelming (-88-)

    69 The Cave (-18-)

    70 The Bee (-16-)

    71 Noah (-71-)

    72 Abraham (-14-)

    73 The Prophets (-21-)

    74 The Believers (-23-)

    75 The Prostration (-32-)

    76 The Mount (-52-)

    77 The Sovereignty (-67-)

    78 The Reality (-69-)

    79 The Ascending Stairways (-70-)

    80 The Tidings (-78-)

    81 Those Who Drag Forth (-79-)

    82 The Cleaving (-82-)

    83 The Sundering (-84-)

    84 The Romans (-30-)

    85 The Spider (-29-)

    86 Defrauding (-83-)

    87 The Cow (-2-)

    88 Spoils of War (-8-)

    89 The Family of 'Imran (-3-)

    90 The Clans (-33-)

    91 She That is to be Examined (-60-)

    92 The Women (-4-)

    93 The Earthquake (-99-)

    94 Iron (-57-)

    95 Muhammad (-47-)

    96 The Thunder (-13-)

    97 The Beneficent (-55-)

    98 Time or Man (-76-)

    99 Divorce (-65-)

    100 The Clear Proof (-98-)

    101 Exile (-59-)

    102 Light (-24-)

    103 The Pilgrimage (-22-)

    104 The Hypocrites (-63-)

    105 She That Disputeth (-58-)

    106 The Private Apartments (-49-)

    107 Banning (-66-)

    108 Mutual Disillusion (-64-)

    109 The Ranks (-61-)

    110 The Congregation (-62-)

    111 Victory (-48-)

    112 The Table Spread (-5-)

    113 Repentance (-9-)

    114 Succour (-110-)

  5. salaam brothers/sisters:

    After browsing through some Islamic websites, my attention steered towards the chronology of Qur'an. As we know the first chapter that was revealed was the 96th chapter that starts with "Iqra"(READ). I understand by knowing the chronological order of Qur'an we can have a better understanding of historical events that took place at that time. This brings me to my questions: If the chronological Order of Qur'an would teach us more - Revelations and real-time events, then why wasn't Qur'an compiled in that way? whats the benefit of our Actual Ordered present day Qur'an over chronologically ordered one? And why did Imam Ali (A.S) deem it necessary to compile it during the reign of the first caliph?

    I understand this doesn't change anything, but i believe it would open up a new vantage point to view the Holy Qur'an.

    Thanks everyone in advance.

  6. the fact of the matter is that just in the same way shias claim that in this will was going to have the prophet (saw) then how do you know it was not going to have the name of abu bakar on it? the fact of the matter is the prophet (saw) was not well and the Words the "Quran is enough for us" was said due to the simple fact the prophet (saw) was ill very ill.

    Did his act relieve the prophet (pbuh)? rest of the hadith says the prophet(PBUH)'s condition got worse by it (causing ppl to argue in that room) that he asked all of them to leave the room. So in fact, he made it worse, not better. Agreed?

  7. (salam)

    Imam Khomeini (ra) is a good person, watch this documentary if you don't believe me.

    As to Syed Khamenei, he has proved he is smarter than the other leaders in the region because his government wasn't toppled by a bunch of teenagers with green ribbons LOL


    Is the law put forth by Imam Khomeini the same the one being implemented right now? or is it modified? ...just wondering

  8. (salam)

    Seems like you might been hanging around too between Younge & Steeles and Yonge & Finch. Canada has a very large Iranian population and majority of them are all Shah-lovers. So in other words, you might be meeting up with the wrong Iranians.

    Why don't you go to the Iranian mosque in Canada and see if you still see the same reaction?


    talking about the one near Victoria pk and O'Connor? you're right I should've. Never been there. And I'm talking about the main concentration of Iranians, Richmond hill, but rest of Toronto too.

    See its not like I'm going around interviewing people about it, but it just happens that out of nowhere they start cussing Khomeini out, out of their frustrations for leaving their happy life in Iran and coming to Canada. I thought maybe there was more to it, that's why I made this post in the first place.

  9. Well it's you who is bringing up all these varied points, I was just rebutting them. The starting point for using a discussion board is to have a clear idea as to what you want to talk about.

    You started with expat Iranians hating the IRI and as people pointed out to you, this is not entirely unexpected. I have come across a number of these people in the UK and what remains unexplained is how a country that is so poor and which treats everyone so badly nevertheless managed to provide these people with enough financial capital to start businesses, buy property and join expensive health clubs.

    You've then moved onto the idea that the IRI is not Islamic and you've given some poor examples to support your assertion and you're none too pleased when they're rebutted.

    I suggest you go back to the drawing board and draw up a list of "Reasons why I hate the IRI'. Then decide which of these reasons have something in common that they can be put into a specific thread. For each new group of ideas start a new thread.

    If you are not sure about the coherence of a group of ideas, make a list on this thread and we'll tell you.

    For example when you are arguing that the IRI is not Islamic it does not make a lot of sense to put in references to the Green movement, upholding Islam does not appear to be one of their priorities.

    So before you go any further make sure you decide which point of view you want to attack the IRI from. Is it that it is not Islamic enough or not liberal enough. Bear in mind that posters who try to make both points (as you seem to have done) look somewhat bizarre.

    What I wanted to talk about got discussed and explained till post #21, and to be honest it did clear up my mind about the confusions i had. But this barbie-drama started when IRI was decorated with Islamic Law and thats where it all started going off-road. For a mod, you really didn't go through the thread at all, did you? Me hating IRI or loving them, makes no difference, not to me, not to you, not to anyone, so thats irrelevant. And every example i give you, you will throw it away calling it poor examples, kind of like what Americans do to new evidence calling it "conspiracy theory".

    I must admit i'm new to this site and have just started looking into world issues, and im not familiar with the term "green movement".

    Elsewhere you question the Islamic credentials of the IRI. Yet here you link to a freedom campaign whose supporters (see your link), include such well known Muslim scholars as Salman Rushdie, Irshad Manji and Ian McEwan. Actually they are well known Islamophobes.

    So we abondon the truth cuz its backed up by "Islamophobes"?

  10. You are attempting to show your 'expertise' by lobbing in a few anecdotal stories, which lack background and explanation and from these anecdotes you are attempting to draw some conclusions.

    To the observer it seems clear that you have a pre-formed opinion and you are simply trying to justify it on very flimsy evidence indeed.

    Take the example of Afghan refugees. Iran is internationally acknowledged as having one of the largest refugee communities in the world and one which it treats far more sympathetically (compared to other countries) given its own economic situation.

    Secondly the thousands of civilians who protest against the regime are not wrong, they have their opinion. Unfortunately for you, they are more than matched by the many more civilians that the regime is able to bring out in its own defense.

    The Egyptian government tried something similar, but it couldn't.

    If you wanna be hard headed about it as i said before, by all means, but please do it at an appropriate thread. this is just taking us away from the topic of this thread. I DO have a pre-formed opinion, and that's not exclusively to Iran, but to all so-called Islamic countries. I lived in Iran more than I lived in Afghanistan (5 years compared to 8 months of infancy), therefore, i have deep attachments to that country. also i grew up thinking Iran is the biggest shi'a country and the central school of shi'a studies. So please don't bring those differences here, on this thread.

    if the example of afghans really disturbs you then you can scratch that off. but are you really convinced Iran is implementing the laws of Allah and the prophet's sunnah??? I highly doubt so. Even still, my question is about majority of iranians in north america hating khomeini.

    So can we please get back on track now?

  11. Your thread topic was misleading. You were pretending to be inquisitive when it turns out you already have your mind made up.

    read my post #26, i was not pretending to be inquisitive, but if thats how you look at things, then all the power to you. you guys are mixing up the issue of Khomeini with current political structure of Iran, while I made it clear about what i was inquiring about.

  12. Hope you can see the inconsistency.

    In the context of your obvious expertise in this topic, I think the IRI would take this as a compliment.

    it is consistent....in the sense that Afghans have utmost respect for Ayatollah Khomeini but he never ordered to get them kicked out of Iran. But the so-called "Islamic republic" is carrying out what i've listed. I don't think what they're doing now has anything to do with Khomeini. I request you read my post without any prejudice ( if any). But its not just about Afghans, its what they're doing to Iranians too, and now this uprising by students and all. these 1000s of civilians can't be all wrong.

    And my apologies if I, in any way, showed my expertise, if I was an expert, I wouldn't post this question here. Im just stating my opinion from what I've seen. My blood boils when I see people using Islam as a tool/weapon to suite their desires.

  13. First The Islamic Republic of Iran implements proper Islamic law based on the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) and the Holy Ahl al-Bayt (as). Anyone who criticizes the Islamic Republic for implementing what Allah(SWT) decreed needs to repent to Allah(SWT). I think your basing what your saying about the Islamic Republic of Iran on the words of a few corrupt Shah(la) supporters and secularists in the West. .

    I strongly disagree on this matter. How is Iran implementing proper Islamic laws by stoning people to death? how is Islamic law being implemented by hanging poor girls til death because they were rape victims and the accused was a govt./political figure? How is Allah's law being put into action, when they go house to house in mashad and threw afghans out of their houses and sent them back to their land while their poor children hadn't even returned from school?

    Islamic republic of Iran has nothing Islamic in it. Matter of fact, no Islamic govt has anything Islamic in it. I understand your love for your country (if you're Iranian) but truth stands clear, doesn't it? One afghan poet once said, I went to the east, I saw Muslims but no Islam, I went to the west, i saw Islam but no muslims....or something like that.

  14. lol..because she is female it'll bring harm to her and it would go against the ruling of Allah where he asks females to look after their chastity, etc. Of course it's not her fault she's female but if we were all males on this earth, where would the children come from?

    And a female can lead other females in prayer as that brings no harm. And if she wanted to become a scholar, she can become one amongst her family and teach her family. If she was to go to the outside world, then it may bring her harm as the way men look at women isn't in the same way women look at men. Am i right?

    You can't use the same context for an illegitimate child. :)

    Also leading prayers is not a privilege but a responsibility. Women already are burdened with so much responsibilities, leading prayers is out of the question despite the fact that even during namaaz law of attraction still applies.

  15. I'm sorry but this is not because the Prophet(Pbuh&hpf) was unable to read at the first time of Revelation

    that he can't learn to read and write till the end of his life

    as far as I know we all learned to read and write

    I don't see any contradiction in the logic

    He was iletrate at the earliest stage of the Revelation and was able to write and read at the end of his life.

    thanks for that, and thats y i raised post #8

  16. If 12rs want to shoot this point at us Sunnis what do we do today ? The 12th Imam has been gone for over 1000 years ? Why isn't he here to guide us ? Why didn't he leave any representatives ?

    In today's society neither the Sunni system or the Shia system in functional. When these topics come all the 12r Shia can do is create topics where the 3 imams are compared with the 3 calipah ? This is all history. What about today ? What about Calipate after Imam Hussain (as) ? The Imamate after Imam Hussain (as) went into a pacifist mode.

    i agree with you, but how are you gonna convince millions of other sunnis whose hate for shi'as grow by the minutes. If history is irrelevant, then what else could be the reason for them bombing shi'a mosques and throwing acids on our processions in Muharram? We see them getting very physical during muharram than the rest of the year. Why every year we hear it in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq?

  17. One day I was sitting at work with an Iranian Shiite girl born and lived in Iran for 20 years and a lebanese Sunni girl born and brought up in Australia.

    In our discussion I asked the Shia girl secretly "do u hate umar and abubakar"

    She replied: it's Sunnis who hate them right?

    And the Sunni girl sneaked in and said who are those two in discussion. :)

    Most people are plitical entusiast in both Sunni and Shia; nothing much to do with religion.

    Ya Ali Madad

    I, once had a debate with a mid 30's iranian women about this, because it did bother me. She gave an explanation which to some extent i agreed too but i don't how much of it is to be blamed on ayatollah khomeini. she said if you're raised in a country that impose evil laws on you and all you see is cruelty in the law, and the ones enforcing it call it Islamic law, wouldn't you naturally grow hatred for Islam while growing up in that community? specially if you don't know the real Islam and all you know it is through your government? she said she doesn't know anything about Islam (she is christian) but the govt. laws were definitely evil and inhumane because of which people were so distressed and had enough of it that they denounced Islam as a whole, only because of a corrupt govt. system. Then this other Old man started cursing all of them, from the prophets to the imams, then all the way to the govt of iran, simply stating that they took away democracy and killed 1000's of men and are still killing us and opressing us and Khomeini is to be blamed for all of this. Very shallow of him but thats what he believed.

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