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In the Name of God بسم الله


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  1. So the first two questions; 1, Was Saqifa a public assembly/gathering and 2, Was it a planned and organised event, the answer to both questions are NO. Saqifa was an incident that happened. It was coincidental and it happened all of a sudden. Because reality and facts concerning and connected to it tell us. The Prophet (s) had just passed away and the Ummah was in state of shock and loss, they were mourning. Important individuals and personalities were busy in the funeral processions/arrangements. There was no announcement or advertisement of a public gathering or event for the purpose and reason of choosing/selecting a leader for the Ummah. This is what reality and facts tell us.
  2. Here is another reference; Umar learned of this (i.e. the gathering of the Ansar at Saqifah) and went to the Prophet’s house and sent (a message) to Abu Bakr, who was in the building…[Umar] sent a message to Abu Bakr to come to him. Abu Bakr sent back (a message) that he was occupied (i.e. with caring for the Prophet’s body), but Umar sent him another message, saying: “Something (terrible) has happened that you must attend to personally.” So he (Abu Bakr) came out to him… (The History of al-Tabari, Vol.10, p.3)
  3. Another reference, apart from reality and facts, to my claim that it wasn't a public gathering/assembly or a planned and organised event. 'It is related by Umar that as they were seated in the Prophet’s house, a man cried out all of a sudden from outside: “O Son of Khattab (i.e. Umar), pray step out for a moment.” Umar told him to leave them alone and go away as they were busy in making arrangements for the burial of the Prophet. The man replied that an incident had occurred: the Ansar were gathering in force at Saqifah Bani Sa’idah, and–as the situation was grave–it was necessary that he (Umar) should go and look into the matter lest the Ansar should do something which would lead to a (civil) war. On this, Umar said to Abu Bakr: “Let us go.” (Al Faruq, by Allamah Shibli Numani, Vol 1, p.87)'
  4. Lets take a look at the first two questions; 1, Was Saqifa a public gathering/assembly? 2, Was it a planned and organised event? The answer is definitely NO. It was not a public gathering/assembly. Nor was it a planned and organised event. Why? Lets bring in reality and facts. The Prophet (s) had just recently passed away. The Ummah was in state of shock and mourning. People, important individuals and personalities, were busy in funeral processions and arrangements. Also lets bring in another very important fact. For a public gathering/assembly and or a planned and organised event you need announcement, advertisement and give notification. Nothing was announced or advertised.
  5. Thanks for your reply, most appreciated.
  6. First of all there are a few questions we (Muslims) need to ask ourselves. And this is how I will begin; 1, Was Saqifa a public gathering/assembly? 2, Was it a planned and organised event? 3, Who gathered in Saqifa and why? 4, Those who gathered/assembled in Saqifa were they minority or majority? 5, What was the reason and purpose for their gathering? Lets just start of with these few questions and keep it simple and easy.
  7. In this thread I will talk about Saqifa, what exactly happened and how and why it happened. The purpose of this thread is to get to know and understand reality and facts about Saqifa but with an open and clear mind. By looking into things in depth and in great detail is how you get to know the truth. Feel free to contribute.
  8. The phrase Assalatu Khairum Minan Naum (Prayer is better than sleeping) was not part of the azan (calling for prayer) during the time of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and it has been included in Azan later (1). Furthermore, Imam ash-Shafi‘i says in his Kitab al-Umm as such: In fact it was Umar Ibn Khattab who ordered to include the phrase, "prayer is better than sleep" (Assalatu Khairum Minan Naum) in the Azan at Fajr.(3) There are other documents to prove the fact that "Assalatu Khairum Minan Naum" was later added to the Azan. I just mention two of them: Muwatta of Imam Malik: Al-Muhalla of Ibn Hazm: Finally, Assalatu Khairum Minan Naumis used only for the Fajr prayer because it was included by Umar Ibn Al-Khattab in the Azan at Fajr. References: 1- Kanz al-Ummal by Ali ibn Abd-al-Malik al-Hindi, “kitab as-salah,” vol. 4, p. 270. 2- Quoted from Dalilo-Sidgh by Mohammad Hassan Mozaffar, Vol. 3. 3- Al-Musnad of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. III, p. 408; Sahih Muslim, Vol. III, p. 183; al-Halabi, Al-Sirah, Vol. II, p. 105; Ibn Kathir, Vol. III, p.23.
  9. Very well put forward. Jazakalkah!
  10. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said; "May Allah curse Shaibah bin Rabia, Utba bin Rabia and on Umayya bin Khalaf. Ref: Bukhari Kitab Al Haj Pg 260 published from Misr. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) cursed the Hakam, father of Marwan when marwan was in his loin (That is Marwan was not born till then). Ref : Tarikhul Khulafa Pg 142. Mohammad ibne AbuBakr wrote a letter to muawiya in which he said to muawiya that; "You are the accursed son of accursed father. Ref : Murujuz Zahab V 6 Pg 69. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) has cursed the one who eat the usury . Ref : Sahih muslim Pg 600 , 22 Kitab Al Musaqat Ch 19 Ch Babul La’an wa Aakelul Reba wa mawkelah H 4109 Published Berut Darus Sadir. Kitab Sunane Abu Daud Pg 536. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said; "Allah has cursed the one who give or take bribe. Ref : Musnad Ahmed ibne Hanbal V 2 Pg 212 Musnad Abdullah ibne umraw H 7000 published Beirut Darul Kutb Ilmiya. Sunane Ibne Majah Pg 369. Thr Holy Prophet (pbuh) has cursed the one who separates father and the son and between brothers. (That is he cause disu6nity between them). Ref : Sunane Ibne Majah Pg 309. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said; “Allah , Angels and all men ‘s curse be on one who deprive anything of my rights or anything which was given to my progeny or disregard my wilayat”. Ref : Jam’ul Jawame V 3 Pg 339. Kanzul Ummal V 16 Pg 42 The Holy Prophet (pbuh) saw Abu Sufyan riding a camel, his son, Yazid, leading the camel, and Muawiya following the camel. He (pbuh) said; "Allah’s curse be on the rider, the leader leading the camel and the follower." Ref : Isabat fi Tamiz us Sahabah by Ibne Hajaz Asqalani V 5 Pg 480. Tarikh-e-Tabari, vol. 11, pg. 357, Published in 284 AH. Tarikhe-e-Abul Fida, vol. 2, pg. 57, Published in 238 AH. Kitabo Siffin Nasr, pg. 247, Egypt. Tazkerah al-Khawaas by Sibt Ibn Jauzi, pg. 115. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said; "When you see son of Hakam ibne Abi Aas on the pulpit like monkeys and Allah has revealed for them this Ayat (surah Isra : 60) and in this 'Ayat Shajare Mal’oon' refers to Hakam and his sons." Ref: Tafseere Aalusi V 4 regarding Surah Isra : 60. Aisha said to Marwan Ibne Hakam; “I have heard Holy Prophet (pbuh) say to your ancestors that 'You are Shajare Maloona (The accursed tree) in Quran'. Ref: Tafseere Fath Al Qadeer Lish Shawkani V 4 . The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said; "I am seeing son of Hakam ibne Abi Aas on the pulpit like apes and Allah has revealed the Ayat (surah Isra : 40) and in this ayat Shajare Maloona (The accursed tree) refers toHakam and his sons." Aisha said to Marwan Ibne Hakam; "I have heard Holy Prophet (pbuh) say about your ancestors that You are Shajare Maloona (The accursed Tree) in Quran." Ref: Tafseere Durrul Mansoor by Suyuti .
  11. What about your Arab brothers (Saudis) bombing and killing your equally Arab brothers the Yemenies?
  12. What you've just said this discryption fits all the Arab rulers, Arabia and Gulf states. The ones that the west gets along with and have business interests with those rulers are okay. It doesn't matter what they do and how they treat their people and or political opposition the west just turns a blind eye.
  13. And you also have dictators and tyrants ruling Saudia Arabia, Bahrain etc. There are many crimes committed there by the government/those in authority towards cerain people and minorities who want a balanced and fairer government. Why not also mention this? Why not be fair and reasonable?
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