Haydar Husayn

Wa alaikum as-salaam. Thank you! Yeah, but that’s not a big surprise. Slightly more surprising (but not completely) is people asking for evidence that Ulul-azam prophets have a higher status than certain non-masoomeen.

Wa alaikum as-salaam! Just to clarify, is your position that no Shia scholar thinks that the Imams have been given power over creation by Allah? And that all the Imams do when you call on them is to supplicate to Allah, and that they aren’t able to help you directly with their God-given powers?

Thanks! Don’t know how much I’ll be around, but I never could resist this topic!

What is the evidence for this? In the thread of mine that you quoted in your post, I asked for any hadiths on this title, and as far as I can remember none were produced. Even the answer you quoted simply says that these titles are conferred on them by their 'admirers'. You can't just go around saying things about Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) without having any evidence to support it.

By the way, here is an example of a scholar saying what some are claiming no Shia scholar says:

I’m surprised by this. Why do you think the belief in wilaya takwiniya is so important to some scholars if it’s not because they believe that the Imams (a) have the ability to intervene directly in human affairs (with Allah’s permission of course)? There is no need for such powers if all you are going to do is supplicate to Allah on someone else’s behalf. And rationally, what is the problem to ask someone who you believe Allah has given power over creation to do something for you using those powers? After all, whether that person supplicates on your behalf or performs a miracle on your behalf, they are in both cases simply performing an action on your behalf that is within their power. https://www.al-islam.org/ask/can-you-explain-the-concepts-of-wilayat-e-takvini-and-wilayat-e-tashrihi-with-examples-how-are-they-supported-by-the-quran-and-hadith It’s common among Catholics, but they also deny it’s worship by using similar mental gymnastics to the ones seen in this thread. To their credit, at least they don’t try to deny that it is prayer, they just say they aren’t praying to her as if she is a deity. https://dowym.com/voices/catholics-pray-mary/ As you can see, the arguments are similar.

Western society seem to have developed an obsession with these topics.

Good for him. Hopefully it will start a trend.

True, but in most cases you would expect the husband to have participated, and if not he probably would have been enslaved anyway. This would be after they have both been enslaved. I didn’t say it was primarily to protect them or look after them. At the end of the day, they have become property. Nevertheless, considering some of the alternatives in the harsh world they lived in, it wasn’t necessarily the worst outcome.

Women didn’t just come to the battlefield to fight, but also to support the men in various ways. The issue is, what would you do with the women and children of defeated enemies? If you leave them to fend for themselves, they won’t survive very long and will probably be enslaved by someone else. Looking after them at no cost isn’t very realistic either. So instead they were taken as slaves, which was normal at that time when defeated in battle, and would then have the opportunity of being invited to Islam, integrated into the community and most likely freed within a few years. In the meantime, they were provided with food and shelter, and the possibility of spiritual salvation. Once freed, they had just as good prospects in life as anyone else. Of course, I’m not saying this was something anyone would welcome, but it was part of life back then, and therefore something that was within the realms of possibility for anyone living at that time. So of course the reaction to it happening to someone wouldn’t be like it would now. The problem we often have when thinking about these issues is we imagine how it would feel for us to be enslaved, but the situations are not comparable. For most of us, being enslaved is completely unthinkable and just about the worst imaginable outcome. So of course something that is not within the realms of what we consider likely to ever happen to us would be more traumatic than something that was quite common.

Sure, we you need to prove that your concepts of what an ideal physical relationship is like are derived from Islamic teachings. It seems like you have your preconceived notions of what an ideal physical relationship should look like, and are imposing that understanding on the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Personally, I don’t cringe when I read the descriptions in those narrations. I just think these are things that shouldn’t necessarily be discussed between unrelated men and women. I also don’t think the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Imams (عليه السلام) necessarily had a deep spiritual connection with all of their wives and slave girls. My feeling here is that in general there might be a slight difference in how these things are viewed between those who are married and those who aren’t (yet).

We aren’t Christians. There is nothing shameful in ‘carnal relations’. Allah has placed these urges in us, and given us halal outlets for them. The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was a man, and had manly urges. In fact, he rebuked companions of his that abstained from their women.

Why? What’s the problem with it? Is it disrespectful to acknowledge that he had conjugal relations with his wives?

Yes, that is my issue with a lot of these narrations from Aisha. I wonder how many Sunnis would be happy with their wives talking to other men about such things?

No, I didn’t say they were fabrications. They could very well have taken place. I just don’t think sharing such details is very decent, especially with men,