kadhim

Salams. What a coincidence. Drop in out of curiosity and see this. May have to pop back in from time to time if enough people I know are still around. Been spending most of my online time on Quora of late.

Two criteria in evaluating whether a substance is considered an intoxicant. 1. The effect of the substance 2. Its customary usage So does it intoxicate in reasonably consumable amounts? And is it normal or typical for people to use it for that purpose? The second test is the one that clears things like vanilla extract, so long as it's used in the normal way. Drinking a glass of vanilla extract you can't do. But you can use the tablespoon called for in the baking recipe.

Seaweed is a plant. There is no issue in eating any (non-drug) plant.

THIS IS .... SHIRRRRKKKK!!!!!!!

That's awesome. I'm losing touch, I guess. Well what are you doing typing away on a Saturday afternoon. Go spend time her. You young people...where are your priorities?

Let me get you straight, Haydar. You're suggesting the only thing holding women back from shacking up regularly under the same roof with multiple boyfriends is taboo? You know how much I respect you, Haydar, but that's crazy talk. Monogamy and commitment are back in again. Didn't you hear? Even the gays are getting into it. Weird. And then there's our fitra. One to one is a nice stable norm for all kinds of reasons. Relax. We need to get you married, bro. Your mind is flitting off into theoreticals too much. You need a woman to ground you.

Haydar, what's your point? Sure, if you go scrounging around, you're going to find fringes that are into all sorts of unorthodox relationships. 1-2 % are into gay relationships. Some tinier percentage are into some sort of polyamory. Yes, there's no secular argument for the government to prohibit any relationship between consenting adults. But do you want the government to have the power to tell consenting adults what relationships they can and cannot have? And for God's sake, why? It's a fringe, and will always be a fringe. People tend to monogamy, at least serial monogamy. It's our fitra. That's not changing. There's zero point in getting bent out of shape about such trivialities. In fact, you just play into their game by giving attention. In the meantime, we express our views, we teach our communities, we teach our children, we communicate our values and show their practical benefit. If anyone in our community tries to Islamically justify such things, we respond. That's all there is to it. Anything beyond that is a waste of breath.

Bro. Show me a hadith that talks about banks. That would indeed impress me, especially since banks didn't exist until about 500 years ago. You argued this above. I challenged and contradicted that above. You didn't reply, so you ceded the point already. You argued already that inflation comes from finance money flooding the economy. Finance money comes from the banks, lent at interest. If interest is higher, money is more expensive, you don't borrow as much of it. That's one reason the rates have been near zero for the lowest rates, to keep the patient's heart pumping. I repeat this only to remind any who might get lost in the thread. As I say, you didn't challenge this earlier, and therefore cede the point. Bro, I have not yet entered the mortgage market (still paying for my education, 6 years out from school). I have no great fondness for paying interest. I pay a few thousand a year in interest. I could definitely think of more productive ways to use that money in my household. I welcome all credible alternatives to the world of finance, and if I see a credible alternative that is interest free and isn't just sneaking in interest in disguise by the time I get to a point I'm thinking to buy a home, I will go for it. Why wouldn't someone go for a better deal? Right? I mean, that's part of your argument above with the P and P+i. The alternative will be better for people's wallets? Then you don't need to hunt and stretch for tenuous religious grounds for the alternative. Just bring it to the market and show it can be successful and a better product for borrower. Even non-Muslims will beat down your door if you're selling a better, more user-friendly mortgage. Just show up and deliver success. If you're better, you don't need to bash the competitor. You just need to be more attractive as an option.

I didn't criticize you for being idealistic. I criticized you for only having idealism, for having no "in the meantime plan." I criticized you for lacking pragmatism. I honestly see no compelling evidence to suggest that non-usurious interest on varying value money is haram. None in fact. No, I don't have some sharp cutoff rule to offer as a dividng line between the two. No, I don't feel bothered about that. Moreover, I would argue that the evidence usually quoted against interest actually would imply that many zero-interest loans would be forbidden transactions, as the borrower ultimately pays back a lesser value than borrowed, an injustice. Unless it's some charity or government bank that by principle agrees to operate at a loss as a tax funded public service, where it's accepted as part of the deal the borrower needn't pay the full value back. What about you? Are you going to finally admit that your dogmatic, literalist, one-dimensional approach to this issue is lacking due to it's violation of a slew of other Islamic principles when you dig into the details? Or are you just going to leep doubling down?

Alright. That's fine. Hopefully it's clear I wasn't seriously asking a stranger on the internet for that kind of money. I'll get there myself, in time, hopefully. Sure, people should help each other. But it's going to take a mountain of work before that's an alternative to dealing with banks for education and housing. I mentioned cars before, but I'll withdraw that since it's something you can legitimately and reasonably save for and buy with cash. (Speaking as the owner of a $1500 2001 Chevy, lol) Quality housing is a tougher nut to crack, unless as a community we get organized to vertically coordinate the whole operation from materials to buying land to building to finance. Best of luck with the work business. It's pretty nasty out there still, for the 99.5%. Keep the faith.

You said people should help each other in the context of a discussion of credit. I took you seriosuly on that and asked you for help. You responded with lies and insults. So, anyway, are you going to put your money where your mouth is or not? I'd like to make an offer on the humble family home I linked to above. I specified "urban" above. Suburban is only marginally better, unless you're open to 2+ hours of commute per day. Which is its own cost. Rural one can probably get 2-3 times as much per dollar. But then there's finding a job that is the problem. $250k is a bungalow, if you're lucky, near Canadian urban centers. The US may well be less in the Midwest or in red-lined neighborhoods.

Can you explain to me your fondness for non sequiturs?

:wacko: :rolleyes: Must have taken you awhile to track down that many cardboard boxes, I imagine. Yeah, man. Sure. You can totally buy a family place for 80k in urban Canada. :rolleyes: 300k is a gold plated palace. Although, looks like I was off by a bit. (That's what you get when you're not actively in the market) Seems $250 000 is actually the ground floor for Montreal family dwellings. http://www.royallepage.ca/en/property/quebec/pierrefonds-roxboro-montreal/4-5e-avenue-s/2430339/mls15120076/#.VCzH0fldWKI My bad. So if you can just wire that to my account, I can make an offer. Tell you what, as a token of gratitude, I'll even make you one of my classic toasted salmon filet sandwiches with dijon mustard and balsamic mayo.

That's the lower end basic cost of clean, safe housing in the modern urban first world.