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In the Name of God بسم الله


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Everything posted by Charleslemartel

  1. I am not concerned with Abu Hurarah or anyone else, and I will accept that he might be an unreliable narrator. I just wish to know what this statement means. Can you help me?
  2. Can someone please translate the following hadith: Úä ÃÈí åÑíÑÉ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÞÇá : ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã : ÅÐÇ ÌÇãÚ ÃÍÏßã ÝáÇ íäÙÑ Åáì ÇáÝÑÌ ÝÅäå íæÑË ÇáÚãì æáÇ íßËÑ ÇáßáÇã ÝÅäå íæÑË ÇáÎÑÓ I do not know if it is sahih; I am not saying it is right or wrong. I just want to ascertain the correct translation of this hadith. PLease, some one?
  3. Of course! Atheists are against the religions because people of each of the religions think that their religion is the truest of all, and commit many atrocities in the name of religion. They do it because of their false belief that their religion is true. Unfortunately none of them question and critically examine their faith, and as a result humanity suffers a lot and unnecessarily. Otherwise, no atheist worth his salt would bother if you believe in a monkey God, an elephant God, or an unimaginable God.
  4. I read the quoted text, and there is hardly anything which I do not agree with. Now please tell me how Islam or its teaching or the Islamic beliefs are related to it.
  5. Hello Smiley, Do you think I care about being banned from this site at all? I have been arguing against the blasphemy and apostasy laws all the time. But I can only argue against the illogic of such laws, I can't change them. I thought there was a difference between an Islamic country and an Islamic forum. I did not denigrate your prophet or lay any false accusations against him. And I have not said ANYTHING about ahlubait at all. Ban me immediately if you wish, and keep the faith of the believers intact. I had a quite fruitful discussion with skinee at this forum and I am quite satisfied with my stay here.
  6. Please tell me what is this disease and how it can be cured.
  7. Hello Sayyyed, you missed my point. I said that matter or energy did not ever begin nor it can be destroyed; that is exactly what the laws of conservation state. If matter or energy cannot be created, where is the scope of any creator? If God can be "uncreated", why can't the universe itself be uncreated? Think over it. Some one on this forum was complaining that I was always on the offensive asking questions, and I offered him a chance to be on the offensive and start asking questions to me. He backed out. I make you the same offer; ask me as many questions as you can think of. I wouldn't hide behind "GOD" for any question I do not know the answer of. The universe never BEGAN; it was there all the time for eternity (search and read about "eternal universe" on the internet). And no, everything is still NOT working PERFECTLY. I can tell you about numerous things which are NOT working perfectly. Please, please search "God of the gaps" on google and read one or two articles about this phrase. When you wish to argue with an atheist or agnostic, it helps to learn about their arguments beforehand.
  8. Edit: You can't say that stuff here. Note forum rules:
  9. If you wish I can play the game starting from asking you to name a thing you want to ask about. If that thing is a man made thing, I will say man created it. If that thing is natural and alive, I will say evolution (natural selection) did it. And if you name an inanimate thing, I will say I do not know. To cut the long "logic" short, if you are going to tell me that the universe HAS to be created by someone, and that someone is God, I will then ask you who created God. You will say God is the first cause or the uncaused cause, and eternal, I will tell you that the universe is uncaused and eternal, and you have no evidence that God exists, while we don't need any evidence for the existence of the universe. I have evidence for an eternal universe because the laws of conservation state that Matter/Energy cannot be created nor destroyed; they can merely be converted to each other as per the formula given by Einstein. So, if matter/energy is eternal, the universe has to be eternal, so there is no need for any creator God. To disprove my argument, you will have to prove these laws of conservation wrong. Good luck.
  10. The moral laws of a secular society are/will be based on the Golden Rule. And yes, it is fully reasonable to change one's opinion as the world is changing too. The rules regarding the cleanliness (toilet etiquette) in the 7th century no longer apply because the world have moved far ahead of that time. The moral laws of a secular society, arrived at by opinion of the people, is bound to be better than a law devised by any individual even if he is Muhammad. All the religious codes are also devised by mere humans. The claims of divine origin do not make them so. The basis for enforcing the new values or norms on the society as a whole is based on opinion of the people. And that is how they learned; by trial and error. No God came to them or sent his messenger to tell them how to grow their crops.
  11. This zindeeq raises questions which create doubts in the minds of pious believers. He shakes their faith, and is spreading, what do you call it, fitna? LOL. Ban him pronto. Don't let the believers be exposed to worldviews other than what Islam teaches. As long as they keep away from such basic and probing questions, their faith would remain intact and strong. I too recommend banning Charleslemartel immediately. 1. The better option would be to ban me. My posts and threads will continue to rankle and hurt otherwise :) 2. They learned their lessons well it seems, LOL. Do you post there with the nick "YahyaSnow"? Which other Muslim forum do you advise me to join, some Sunni forum? LOL. The life at Islamic forums is so cosy and warm until some one comes along and starts asking controversial (difficult) questions, no?
  12. So let us both of us say that we are agnostics. So it was irrelevant; any statement does not become true or acceptable to me only because I like mysticism and many mystics have said that. I never said or implied that the reality I was talking about was something supernatural. There is nothing supernatural about miseries getting alleviated if desires drop off. It is not because you can't, or you don't know, it is because there is no reconciliation between what you said and what Allah says. Only a fake reconciliation is possible, and that too in a believing mind, by simply ignoring the contradiction or refusing to juxtapose the two concepts. And there are plenty of evidence many Islamic p.o.v. that these things are real and literal. Right you are. As a parting message, I would just like to tell you that your experience had nothing to do with any belief or religion; it can and does happen to atheists, polytheists, Christians, and any other people. No belief is necessary to experience or see reality.
  13. So what did Allah wanted us to understand by "seven heavens"? Are you a Jafari? LOL. To a Sunni, the Sunni sect is the true sect, and similarly to each of the 71 or so sects in Islam, their own sect is the true sect. The problem with believers is that they accept anything their religious authorities tell them. Do you have ANY evidence for those 124000 prophets? If Islam was the truth, it wouldn't fear anything and wouldn't restrict preaching of other religions in the Islamic countries. If it was the truth, it wouldn't force a Muslim to remain Muslim till death. No scientist or science book threatens you with death or hell if you ridicule his/its theories. You want to argue against evolution? Well, you are welcome to. You wouldn't be punished for not believing in evolution. At the most people may call you a fool and ignorant. And Islam IS getting exposed all over the world, now that the facility of writing anonymously has become possible for people. Risking life by one or a billion men constitutes of no evidence. The first miracle is being performed on probably a daily basis by people who are cornered by attackers, LOL. The second (spider's net) is also not a miracle which keeps happening every night in front of the gate of my garden. The pigeon's eggs are not more than a simple coincidence. The third one has been debunked so many times, that I do not even feel like bringing here something to debunk that miracle again. However, I will debunk your claims through Quran itself. Here is what Ali Sina wrote on the miracles of Muhammad: (http://www.islam-watch.org/AliSina/MuhammadMiracles.htm) Here is something for you to ponder from a rebuttal from Suhail Khalid to the above article by Ali Sina (http://www.quransearch.com/suhail_khalid/Miracles.htm) -------------------------------- If that is the standard of proof for you, this is going to be the last response from my side to your posts. This challenge is ridiculous. I can challenge you to write a simple three word sentence similar to, "I love you" with rhyme and meaning in ENGLISH, and you won't be able to write it; after all it is I who will judge whether you succeeded or not, LOL. There already are websites meeting the challenge of Quran (http://www.suralikeit.com/). Where are those proofs? Oh, I forgot, the Quran of course. LOL. Okay, let us not waste each other's time anymore.
  14. No. A position of indecision would mean I am ignoring the available evidence and I want to give the leeway to something for which there is no evidence. Do you mean to say that nothing exists except God? Or that whatever exists is God? The human investigation has caused God to hide in the moment "before big bang occurred" :lol: Such a God is called "God of the gaps"; I hope you are familiar with this phrase. No valid argument stands today for existence of a creator God. I call what you have experienced a glimpse of reality; and you said we were talking of same thing using other terms. So I thought may be you think you have had a glimpse of God :) The universe did not come out of "nothing"; something coming out of nothing goes totally against the known laws and evidence. Yes, we don't know all the answers, but to offer God as the answer every time one says he doesn't know is to believe in the God of the gaps. Such a God seems like darkness which always recedes in the face of light. See, the believers have vested interest in believing that he was moral so they take only that evidence in to account which reinforces their belief. The other evidence is either ignored by them, or the very concept of morality become different for them. It becomes like, "whatever the Prophet did is moral". I do not have any vested interest in believing that he was immoral. I see the evidence and arrive at conclusions. Each human being is good at sometimes, and bad at others. A thief does not always steal, he may sometimes donate too. A murderer does not simply go on murderin everyone; he spares/saves some lives too. I would call such person a murderer, as even one murder is enough to brand a man. If one commits a crime, he is a criminal irrespective of how many good deeds he does; simple. One cannot will a state of indecision; it naturally arises either when one doesn't know, or one has conflicting and equally strong evidence for two positions. I do not find myself in such a situation. And I did not mean that that person was a great saint. All I meant was that he was a conduit or means for you to have that experience and you should catch hold of him. Anything can be a cause for such experiences; a bird in flight, the rustling of the leaves of a tree, the sound of a flowing river, anything. It helps to use the initial trigger. No teaching can lead to knowing Allah, as the Allah of Quran has no probability of existing. An Allah who sent army of angels to fight on behalf of prophet? An Allah who professes to be the ever best sadist by burning humans forever for mere disbelief? An Allah who did not know that mountains do not act as pegs to stabilize the earth? An Allah who did not know that the sun goes nowhere in the night? An Allah who did not know that bones are not formed BEFORE the muscles? An Allah who did not know that bees do not eat fruits? An Allah who did not know that the sky is not a physical object? An Allah who did not talk of one of the most established scientific theory of evolution? I could go on and on. I can only wish you best of luck :) Like fulfilling the Allah's command to fight disbelievers till all the religion is for Allah only? Like believing in him only because Quran said so? What you say about letting the desires die and aligning them with those of Allah is only partially correct. Desires do not die; they simply drop off. How can an all powerful and all knowing creator have desires when we know that desires are root cause of all the misery? If he did not desire that humans should worship him and believe in him (what a narcissist) he wouldn't have to torture majority of humans. Knowing full well that most of the humans will not believe in him and worship him, he still goes on and creates them anyway, just for the fun of burning them? The very basic question that arises is the merit of belief. Any fool can believe anything, but it takes intelligence and great courage to question, doubt and ask for evidence. We started off with an understanding that we will not discuss as Muslim VS non-Muslim. But perhaps you saw an opportunity to impress others by showing them that I was agreeing with you. Whatever your reasons, it was not proper to introduce Islam in our discussion; and I felt compelled to remind you and request you to keep Islam out of it. I am starting to get a feeling that we will finally leave this discussion on the point of Islam, Quran, Allah and your prophet. Well we do know that there would a great fire in Allah's hell where he would roast the disbelievers forever while renewing their skins every time the skins are burned off. We do know what the fuel for this hellfire will be. We know what would disbelievers have to drink there. We also know what sort of goodies Muslims would enjoy in heaven. I think this much information about hell and heaven as per Quran should be sufficient to have a general idea, no? The ship of our discussion is floundering on the rocks of Islam :lol:
  15. That I decide based on evidence. If I am denying God today, it is based on lack of evidence. I won't have any problems in accepting his existence the very next moment if I get some evidence. Please don't. God/Allah implies someone who created this universe. Reality/Truth implies what truly exists. There is great difference between the two. That is perfectly ok. The blind person is fully justified in refusing to accept the existence of colors, don't you think so? Thankfully, no community has deified colors, otherwise the blind would have been persecuted for blasphemy, LOL. My argument holds. Even if you choose to call your experience God, and even if your experience is real for you, it does not in any way implies that it was responsible for creation. I am :) But you can never KNOW whether or not someone else knows God; you can only take their words on face value, and that is nothing but belief, utterly useless for you. Again, please don't use truth and God interchangeably. God or Allah as described in Quran does not exist; no evidence whatsoever. I understand. But your prophet has been criticized severely for his immoral actions as recorded in Islamic sources. See if you talk about Prophet, Quran, Islam and Allah (or Jesus, Bible and Christianity) our discussion might get derailed as I do not think Muhammad was a very moral person. We are talking human to human, aren't we? Irrespective of how you define "I", you exist, and it is not only very difficult to deny but also seems foolish to me. The question to be argued about is who is this "I". We (You and I) call it differently because calling it God/Allah would raise the questions about heaven/hell, belief, disbelief, creationism, messengers etc as described in Quran. But yes, You are right about the rest. Yes we are talking of the same thing. But would you please keep Quran out of this discussion? We ARE talking about the same thing. The trick is to focus your attention to everything that is happening all around you in this very present moment. Actually the word focus is wrong. It is not "focus" like the light of a torch is focused; it is like the light of a candle which makes everything around it visible simultaneously. Normally our attention or awareness is focused at one object at a time; you have to learn to diffuse it. Once you have been to that space, there is no point in arguing for you. Just try to get and be in that space as long as you can. As I said, the words like "God/Allah" mean something totally different. Even if you are using it to describe the reality we are talking about, it would lead to great misunderstanding. For example, are you talking about a God who punishes disbelief by burning the poor soul, in hell for eternity, who used his brains and reasoning faculties to try finding about him? I would disagree.
  16. It is. I can start the thread but I do not think there can be much discussion on the issue. I can only cite James Randy for my stand :) And everyone else will tell about their subjective experiences. The thread will culminate in a stand off pretty quick. No one has been able to tell me the point of any test by Allah so far. Wanna try?
  17. It is a fact that there are Hussaini Brahmins in India who believe that their ancestors fought or tried to help Imam Hussain in Karbala. In fact this bit of information brought me to this site. I first tried to confirm this story on the internet. I came across some articles, but they had no references. Being a person of skeptical frame of mind, I tried to confirm the same at the forum of FFI. I was told there that no historical records confirm such stories apart from the oral traditions of those Hindus.
  18. Hello smiley, I don't doubt you at all; I only think that you might be mistaken. After all, each of us has seen magic shows and have been struck with wonder at the tricks the magician shows. I am just saying that there exists a man called James Randy who has been challenging persons claiming to have some sort of supernatural powers and no one, I repeat, no one has been able to accept his challenge. Please look up about him on the internet and read about his challenge. I am a seeker, and my apparent challenges to people are part of my search. I am looking for miracles and supernatural powers; in fact I desperately want to believe that they exist. But what to do about my skeptical mind which does not accept things without evidence. I hope I have not hurt you in any way. If you wish that I do not disturb the discussion in this thread, just tell me and I will keep off.
  19. Even a moment of peace is enough to change one as a person. You have known what "peace" is. Seek it out with all the strength you have.

  20. There is some reality and some unreality, do you agree? If yes, if you go on dropping the unreal or your imaginations or your beliefs (by belief I mean what you consider as correct or true but have no evidence) whatever will be left will be reality. Do you see the point? See, I exist and there is no doubt against it. No atheist/agnostic, including myself, is ever going to argue that YOU do not exist :lol: Why? Because you can easily provide evidence for your existence. The same is not true for God. WOW (except for the Creator part) :) I agree with you fully. I never thought I would be discussing such issues here. How does that matter to you or me? You or I do not know God/Allah, and even if we take someone else at face value, there will always exist a doubt about the other person who claimed to know God. May be he lied? May he himself was deluded? The truth is that there is NO WAY to be absolutely sure what any other person is claiming as his subjective experience. Even if you believe the person, a doubt regarding the possibility of his getting deluded will remain in the back of you mind no matter what. My father claims that he himself saw a cloud picking up lots of water from the surface of the river he was boating in. He says that he saw the cloud rise from the surface of the river and that there was a huge depression in the river where the cloud arose from. Please don't laugh :lol: I do not doubt his honesty, but I do think he is mistaken. And even if I truly thought that he is right, I wouldn't believe it until I saw it for myself. I would suggest that you start working from the other end. Let us start working from an end about which we are damn sure and there should be no disagreement. For example, I will ask and answer some questions and then leave one or two for you to ponder over. 1. Do I exist? Yes, I exist. 2. Am I unhappy or dissatisfied with my life? Yes, I am. 3. Am I seeking peace or real happiness in my life? Yes, I am. 4. When do I feel unhappy? I am leaving this question hanging. I do not mean some time or date by "When"; I mean some event/incident/happening. Think of some real life example from your life, and we shall start from there. Thank you very much. Normally when one's belief are questioned, one feels offended. Hmmmmm...You have had a glimpse; and that is why you are talking of these things. I have had many glimpses, and I can get to that space at will. I have not been able to stay there for some length of time. For me it usually lasts for a few seconds, and I keep getting in and out of that space again and again as long as keep on trying. I think I can help you. It is really quite simple getting in; the real problem is in staying there :lol: Did you have that discussion online? If yes, I would love to read it if you can provide me the link. If you had that discussion through email, I can provide you with my email address and would request you to send that discussion to me. I would also advise you to catch hold of that person again. Seek him out and don't let him go till your doubts are cleared and your questions are answered. Honestly I do not know. I think that the "reality" cannot be expressed using any words. It is like saying that something is sweet. Dates are sweet too, but if you have not tasted them ever you can only imagine their sweetness to be like sugar or something you have already had a taste of. You can only know when you yourself have tasted them.
  21. Friends, Please try to understand that "miracles" DO NOT happen/exist. Supernatural powers, in any form, do not exist; Randy is a living proof of this statement. Humans, or any other animals, do not live beyond a certain number of years. There are many claims of immortality, but none of them has any evidence. If you believe in speculations and imaginations, un-resolvable disagreements are bound to arise between any two individuals, let alone two religions, two sects, or two groups. There are no such disagreements in scientific matters. Why? Because scientific community deals in evidence and not speculations.
  22. Again I agree with you. You cannot be told what reality is, but you can be told what it is not. And the unreality clouding or obscuring the reality must be dropped first in order to discover the reality. I like your attitude which is the attitude of a seeker, and not that of a true pretender pretending that he already knows what the reality is. Please allow me to point out a flaw in your understanding. I am not saying that it is YOUR flaw, no, it might just be that probably you are not exposed to the ideas I am going to present here to you. I too came across these ideas someday, and prior to that I too had flaws in my understanding (at least I think so :) ). I object to the last statement, "From my current understanding, Allah is Reality, and to Know HIm is the same thing". No, you CANNOT say that. If you truly and honestly ask yourself, you will find that we know nothing about Allah or God, and we do not know if he really exists or not. In fact, going by the present level of knowledge of human beings, the likelihood of a God existing is lesser than his existence. Please try not getting offended by what I say. I am addressing you as I have not addressed anyone else on this forum yet because so far I have been discussing beliefs with others. With you I am not discussing beliefs, I am trying to discuss "reality". I understand. And your answer is one hundred percent correct. But do you really understand your answer? Do you understand how and why YOU are an obstacle? Do you understand who is this YOU which is an obstacle? I can give you the answers to the questions I am asking you in this very post, but I want you to give these questions some thought. The moment you ask me the answer to any of these (or similar) questions, I will try to give you the answer.
  23. Hello Jebreil, I do understand what you call the concept of God being 'beyond Time'. In fact, many have said that time is stationary in another levels of existence or dimensions, and they describe the issue in almost exactly the same manner as you are doing. But I think YOU are not getting my point. Let me try once again: That is because he can see the events of Wednesday on Tuesday itself, right? So whatever is going to happen on Wednesday from my perspective has already happened from Allah's perspective, right? Since it has already happened, I do not have any choice of "not to resign" on Wednesday, right? Then where is the question of my free will?
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