Muslim2010

If there are answers to these questions by evidences these are awaited. (from Zaidiya)

ۖ وَالسَّلَامُ عَلَىٰ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ الْهُدَىٰ and peace is on him who follows the guidance; (20:47) *اَللَّهُمَّےصـلِّےِعَلَى مُحَمَّــدٍوَآلِےِمُحَمَّــدٍ*وعجل فرجھم wasalam

As for the foremost, referred in above verse is Imam Ali a,s who believed in prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and prayed along with him well before others, Many sunni reports provide the evidence. Wasalam

The discussion has already been concluded and conclusion is given at the following link for information of those who intend to learn the truth from followers of 12 imams included in the purified progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم): wasalam

It is also added that Imam jafar As Sadiq (عليه السلام). chose yathrib / Medina for his great school where about 4000 students were studying, They belonged to different cities of Arab and Persian world. The religious institute established in the Mosque of Kufa was the greatest of all those institutes. For it was attended by the nine hundred religious scholars from among those who were graduated from the school of Imam al-Sadiq. For this reason, the scientific movement vastly widened to the extent that it included all the Islamic regions. Many knowledgeable families in Kufa studied sciences under Imam al-Sadiq, and then they became famous for jurisprudence and hadith such as the family of Hayyan al-Taghlubi, the family of A'yun, Banu 'Attiya, the family of Banu Darrajj, and other than them.25 These families honored Imam al-Sadiq when he resided in Kufa for two years during the days of al-Saffah. https://www.al-islam.org/life-imam-musa-bin-jafar-al-kazim-baqir-shareef-al-qurashi/chapter-3-school-imam-al-sadiq

Shia do not need to verify the hadith by view of a scholar about 12 caliphs/ ameers/ imams etc. There are متواتر hadith coming from both sunni and shia sources. We verify these hadith by the presence of 12 imams in our nation as mentioned in the verses of quran in line with 12vers concept that there are word imam repeated in the whole quran exactly 12 times. Why this is so if this does not provide evidence for 12 imams for us from the pure progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) for our nation? wasalam

So you take all the zaidya imams as present physically for their selection , that gives rise to the following questions that needs answer from your side: The religion Islam has two sources of guidance ie Quran and the sayings of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (and imams from his purified progeny(for shia) , brother @Cool have shared hadith / narration about imam Mahdi, yes he is in occultation and you do not believe, but: 1. Your imams after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). has been chosen and selected by the people, where is the verse of quran as first source of religion that defines the principle that people can choose imams for their guidance? 2. From the second source of guidance in religion please quote us a hadith that zaidiya imams particularly Zaid bin Ali after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), are chosen / selected as mentioned in the hadith. 3. Where is the hadith of the prophet that Zaidiya imams chosen by the people as per zaiidya claims provide the guidance to the people of our nation particularly Zaid bin Ali after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? As the religion islam is based on quran and hadith of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) for all sects then the above evidences are vital for confirmation of zaidiya claims. wasalam

So do you not believe in ghayb? unseen ie out of sight? Do you think Imam Mahdi is alone in ghayb? ie occultation?

What guidance zaidiya do follow in the absence of the above verse of quran for man made caliphate / immamat and hadith mentioning names of zaidiya imam particularly Zaid bin Ali after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? The answer is sufficient to prove 12vers view, yes, you may not accept it unless permission comes from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to open someones heart and: ۖ وَالسَّلَامُ عَلَىٰ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ الْهُدَىٰ and peace is on him who follows the guidance; (20:47) wasalam

It is the same that sunni follow for first caliph Abu bakr and Zaidiya take it for Zaid bin Ali BOTH are same against the verses of quran and authentic hadtih of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & sayings of imams from his Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام). However they take first three imams who are same imams for Shia 12vers from the progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). wasalam

I am not here to spoon feed the one who is fond of just running away to opening of many threads in number just to increase the number of posts, even your all claims have already been proven to be false in earlier threads. http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/08/12-imaams-mentioned-by-name-explicitly.html Shia 12vers have well proven evidences from quran and hadith of the prophet and imams of the progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Brother Zaidiya do not have a verse of quran that mentions that people can choose their imam, nor there is any hadith that Zaid bin Ali was an imam. yet they come and ask us authentic hadith from shia and sunni sources for 12 imams/ claiphs/ Ameer indulging their first three Imam Ali bin Abi talib (عليه السلام), Imam hassan (عليه السلام) and Imam Husain (عليه السلام) and 9 descendants from Imam Hussain (عليه السلام). What guidance zaidiya do follow in the absence of the above verse of quran for man made caliphate / immamat and hadith mentioning names of zaidiya imam particularly Zadi bin Ali after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? wasalam ,

There are many hadith of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Imams from the progeny of the prophet to confirm this fact and their nomination as imams including 12 imams, those have been presented many times in these threads during the discussions with yourself and Ali bin Hussain (Warrila). wasalam

Thansk for your reply and referring others that your hero are these two instead of your own first 3 califs. It remind me here that if some one switches 12ver shiism and becomes your hero, but in the light of the verses of quran it my be otherwise, since the satan left to prostrate Adam and became Lanti / Regime. I hope it may be sufficient for some one eyes who just argue with 12vers instead of accepting the facts presented in many threads where these heroes have been found speechless and keep themselves running towards new threads opening thus truth remains hidden from their eyes. wasalam

The Zaidi sect, the Jarudiyyah, narrate many traditions attributed to the Prophet and al-Baqir concerning the political role of the Twelfth Imam. One of their distinguished scholars in Kufa was Abu Said `Abbad b. Ya'qub al-Rawajini al-`Asfari (d. 250/864).(1) He wrote a book entitled Kitab Akhbar al-Mahdi.(2) Al-Dhahabireports that `Abbad was a Rafidite propagandist, and was awaiting the rise of al-Mahdi in the near future. He used to carry a sword, and once said that he kept his sword ready in order to fight for al-Mahdi.(3) It is worth mentioning that `Abbad held this view before the occultation of the Twelfth Imam in 260/874, since he died in 250/864.(4) He reports three Prophetic traditions concerning the Twelfth Imam. Below are two of them: 1)The Prophet is believed to have said, "From my descendants there will be eleven leaders [who will be] noble, receivers of tradition [and] possessed of knowledge, the last of whom will be `al-Qaim bil-Haqq' who will fill it [i.e. the world] with justice, just as it was filled with tyranny.(5) 2)The Prophet is reported to have said: "I and eleven of my descendants and you, O 'Ali, are the axis of the earth, that is, its tent pegs and its mountains. By us Allah has secured the world so that it will not sink with its people. For when the eleventh of my descendants has died the world shall sink with its people without warning.(6) http://www.en.al-shia.org/content/twelfth-imam-zaidi-traditions