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In the Name of God بسم الله

Chisti

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  1. salam bro, thanks for the info. The line of Jafri syeds you mention is the one that migrated primarily to Hadramawt, Yemen escaping the persecution of the Abbasis and interestingly enough to escape the spread of Shia tendencies in Baghdad. I know quite a lot about the Ba'alawis. They trace their lineage to Imam Jafar as Sadiq and have had an unbroken line of scholarship since then. I know that they migrated and spread Islam in Indonesia and Malaysia, and even South India like Malabar. The Jafri's in those parts are certainly related to the Ba'Alawis of Yemen. But, I doubt that the Jafri's in Northern India are directly related to Imam Jafar as Sadiq's son Isa Muhajir who migrated to Yemen. Actually the Jafari's in Northern India, especially the Sunni ones from the particular area I 'hail' from are descendants of syed badiuddin zinda shah madar, a Sufi descendant of Imam Jafar as Sadiq who arrived from Syria. Wa salam bro - if you are referring to Syed Jalaluddin Surkh Posh Bukhari, which I think you are then his descendants (Shia and Sunni) are all Naqvi syeds. Here is a link, not sure how reliable it is, but it details the Naqvi Syed ancestors in India. Maybe this Syed Jallaluddin is a different person. Wa salam bro - if you are referring to Syed Jalaluddin Surkh Posh Bukhari, which I think you are then his descendants (Shia and Sunni) are all Naqvi syeds. Here is a link, not sure how reliable it is, but it details the Naqvi Syed ancestors in India. Maybe this Syed Jallaluddin is a different person.
  2. Any sources that indicate Tipu sultan was Shia? From his description and association with Sufis it appears he was a Sunni/Sufi. http://www.aulia-e-hind.com/dargah/Srirangapatnam.htm
  3. Salams! First of all the translation you provided was by Yusuf Ali, a Dawoodi Bohra. Secondly, even though there are Sunni translators who have translated the ayat with an "and", there are others who have not and have used the word 'guardian' as well. See 2 examples below: [5:55] Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer). AND [5:56] And whoso taketh Allah and His messenger and those who believe for guardian (will know that), lo! the party of Allah, they are the victorious. by Marmaduke Pickthall (Sunni) [5:55] Your patron is God only, and His Messenger, and the believers who establish prayer and pay the alms, bowing down. AND [5:56] Whoever affiliates with God and His Messenger and the believers; for verily the party of God, they are the victors. Translated by the Royal Al-e-Bayt Institute of Islamic Thought, Amman Jordan (Sunni organization) And finally - the most famous and well respected Sunni Tafsir - Asbab al Nuzul provides the following explanation for the ayats Al-Kalbi related something close to this and added that the end of the verse was revealed about ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib, for he gave his ring to a beggar while he was bowing during prayer. Abu Bakr al-Tamimi informed us> ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Ja‘far> al-Husayn ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Hurayrah> ‘Abd Allah ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhab> Muhammad ibn al-Aswad> Muhammad ibn Marwan> Muhammad ibn al-Sa’ib> Abu Salih> Ibn ‘Abbas who said: “Accompanied by a group of believers from amongst his people, ‘Abd Allah ibn Sallam came to see the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace. They said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, our houses are very far and we have no assembly or a place in which we can gather for chatting. When our people saw that we believed in Allah and His Messenger and confirmed his call, they eschewed us and vowed never to keep our company, speak with us or marry from or into us. This has proved too hard for us’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, replied: ‘(Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe)’, up to the end of the verse. Then the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, went out to the mosque. Some people were standing in prayer while others were bowing. He saw a beggar in the mosque and he asked him: ‘Did you get something from anyone?’ The beggar replied: ‘Yes, I got a ring of gold’. The Prophet asked him: ‘Who gave it to you?’ The beggar said: ‘That person who is standing in prayer’, and he pointed to ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib. The Prophet asked him again: ‘In which position did he give it to you?’ The beggar said: ‘He gave it to me while bowing in prayer’. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said ‘Allah is the greatest!’ and then recited (And whoso taketh Allah and His messenger and those who believe for guardian (will know that), lo! the party of Allah, they are the victorious)” [5:56].
  4. Yeah, i think it is difficult to group the arrival of Syeds in one era ... Abdullah Shah Gazi of Karachi is said to have been buried there 1000 years ago. They say he came into that region escaping the ummayads ... he is one of the most respected Sufis in Pakistan. I guess the migration took place throughout the 1000 years. I know about the usage of Zaidis, Jafris etc ... Even Syeds who don't have last names ending with one of the names (naqvi etc), still will write that in their family tree. For instance a friend of mine has a family tree which mentions that they are Naqvi syeds but they don't have that anywhere in their names. I think a geneaologist would be better able to answer such things ... unfortunately it is difficult to get access to one :) Thanks a lot everyone for the responses.
  5. Salam all, I have a few questions for people who might have some clue or answers ... 1. When did the Jafri branch of the syeds arrive in India/Pakistan? And more importantly where did they arrive from? 2. Why do we use terms like Jafri, Zaidi, Naqvi, etc? When did this come into use? Why not just syed abc. Seems like this usage is common among the shias, however, there are some sunni jafri,zaidis etc. But, I really want to know why we use these names at the end of our names. 3. I know that there is a group of Sunni syeds, sons of Ali Uraydi who was the son of Jafar as Sadiq, that migrated from Baghdad to Yemen to escape persecution from the Abbasi rulers. They settled in Tarim, Yemen. From there they spread to parts of East Africa, Malaysia/Indonesia/Brunei, and Kerala, South India. Today they are mostly followers of the Shafi fiqh of Sunnis. So are the Jafri's also the sons of Ali Uraydi? I ask this because Imam Jafar as Sadiq had more sons ... which son do the Jafris descend from? Or descendants of all sons are Jafri? I would really appreciate a response from someone :) ... especially if you are a Jafri with access to your family tree. In case you have access to the faimly tree could you look up to find which son of Imam Jafar as Sadiq you descend from. I unfortunately do not have my faimly tree so can't find out.
  6. Well, I'd like to start with first stating that this thread makes this forum look like a bash and insult everyone not Shia forum, oops, I meant not ithna ashari shia, since Bohras and Ismailis are shias as well? Or are they not? Now to the serious question put forth. 1. Sunnis do have a single concept of tawheed, and I don't have any doubt that the Sunni concept is any different from the Shia one. How can there be a question of difference on the Unity of God??? 2 & 3. Are you serious bro? I mean you yourself use two different terms to describe two different people and then you claim that they are one? Salafis and Sunnis are not the same. Sure, the Salafis would like to call themselves Sunnis, but that does not mean that Sunnis accept their beliefs. It's just like Ismailis or zaidis calling themselves Shias ... would you as a twelver accept them as shia??? So yes Sunnis do believe in the infalliability of the Prophets. I am not sure what the salafis believe in this respect and I'd rather not take your word for it due to the lack of knowledge :) no offense. But, stop hating man ...
  7. And as far as the Hanbali madhab is concerned, it has pretty much died out i.e. very few followers. The Salafis follow pick&choose madhab. Yes, they are influenced by the Hanbali madhab, but that is it, just influenced. Historically, Hanbali's have always been few in numbers. Hanafi madhab is probably the most widely practiced one (note, I am not providing any statistics). This is just a guess. But an educated one. Majority of India, Pakistan, muslims in China, Turkey, Central Asia, Europe (Bosnia, Balkans, Kosovo etc). Next would most likely be Shafi since indonesia and other large parts of the muslim world follow it.
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