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In the Name of God بسم الله

Waqas 411

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Everything posted by Waqas 411

  1. I'm not interested in getting into a nuanced discussion of hadith (which neither I nor anybody here has enough credibility to lecture, let alone debate on), but there are a few important points to keep in mind when assessing that Umar (ra <-- not sure if I'm allowed to say this so just let me know in future if I can or cannot) innovated with the 80 lashes punishment: -A lot of what we know about the Prophet is not necessarily from what we know he did, but from what the sahaba did. Umar could've applied the 80 lashes based on something he saw out of the Prophet but did not formally report. -Just because "our sources" only point to 40 lashes does not mean that Umar was innovating. There are 2 fallacies in this argument: First, "our source" include the consensus of the sahaba and tabi'in, where Umar, as a pioneer of Islamic sciences, acted accordingly. Second, just because the most explicit hadith on this topic only mention 40 lashes does not mean that is the prescribed rule. Imagine your life's sayings being recorded for 23 years. If somebody wanted to find out your stance on a certain issue, they could categorize the different sayings. But this of course might not include everything you truly thought about the topic. In fact, since many statements may be under different circumstances, many things you might've said may appear contradictory. So my purpose in this point is not to make anybody disband from their sectarian persuasions, but to call all of us, myself included, to a level of modesty suitable for our range of knowledge. We do not have the sufficient knowledge of Arabic, fiqh, seerah, tafsir, hadith, hermeneutics, and the many sub-fields to even begin debating with simple quotations of ahadeeth. Salam.
  2. I'm not sure how miracles is as important to Sunni Islam as the Imamate is to Shia Islam, but there are many prophetic miracles in the Quran regarding Muhammad (sw)... "The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder" [Qur'an 54:1] Volume 6, Book 60, Number 388:
  3. Well, the Safavid Empire forced Shia'ism onto everybody in Persia...
  4. When Imam Mehdi comes he will hang Abu Bakr and Umar at the holy grave of Hazrat Muhammad. (Majma-ul-ma’arif, page #49) is this authentic?
  5. The Jewish Encyclopedia cited him as a Jew of the 7th century.
  6. Neither is the verse about giving charity while prostrating.
  7. What should you also master besides these? Quran: -Memorize it -Perfect tajweed -What's allowed and what's not -Tafsir (ibn Kathir, etc.; the interpretation) -Arabic
  8. Can you link me up to an online reference of that hadith? Any language works (pref. Arabic)
  9. Okay, he got excuse from Badr. And in regards to his braveness, we all know he gave his life away willingly to postpone the civil war. How do you blame him for this? And the money he gave out were from his own pockets or out of a due salary. And when I say repentance, I mean sincere repentance. Trying arduously to never do it again, feeling very sorry, etc.
  10. What are you trying to get at? Just because he did one sin is nothing- we sin daily. In fact, what Allah SWT loves the most is sincere repentence after commiting a sin...
  11. Well of course you're not going to give Umar or Abu Bakr or anybody else the benefit of the doubt. But I will look more into this iA and see what I find.
  12. Okay, but who cares? He shouldn't be doing it for popularity and for others around him to respect him! Did you take that into account? He also might have been trying to show modesty in saying that he was doing it to erase all of his bad deeds instead of for the Ummah.
  13. Okay, I'm going to look into this hadith issue with one of my friends who's a lot stronger in hadith (and Arabic, too), and I'll see what I find. But regarding Albani, if he had permission from a scholar who links back to Nabi SW in the discipline of hadith, then he's obviously a Sunni scholar. I don't know how Shias do their stuff, but that's how Sunnis do it.
  14. Okay, we Sunnis believe that this hadith was said in Ghadir, not in the speech in Arafat. If it was in Arafat, okay: we accept the Quran and Ahl-al Bayt. However, the matter of the fact is that he said it in Ghadir, and not every believer was there. It was primarily for the people of Medina, so of course he would tell them to take care of his family. And I've heard that different versions of this hadith have been declared as weak, so maybe that's where your confusion lies. And I have a question: what's your compliance in regard to the dozens of Quranic verses telling us not to call on anybody except Allah?
  15. Okay, we all know that there are many Sunni hafiz, so don't go around fooling yourself. Personally, I know around a juzz probably (I know some bigger surahs like Mulk, Rahman, almost done with Waqia). In fact, the Shias here are not even religious at all, yet the main mosque here has a full time Hifz program.
  16. I just wanted your input on some of these questions I thought of... any sources would be nice even if it's not too specific 1. Did Ali (ra) fight for Abu Bakr (ra)'s army during his driving out of the apostates? 2. Did Ali pray behind Abu Bakr? 3. Since Ali/Fatima asked for Fadak from Abu Bakr, why would it not be an indication of their accepting him as Caliph? 4. Did Ali (ra) during his Caliphate give away any of the Prophet's property because he deemed it as inheritance? 5. So you say that Fatima did not speak to Abu Bakr until she died, but if he had no need to, why would she? Wouldn't it be considered immodest to speak with another man? 6. Did Aisha receive any inheritance?
  17. Schools of thought are simply in jurisprudence, and honestly, those 4 are the only ones.
  18. Well, wasn't Abu Bakr his father-in-law? Wasn't Aisha his wife? Wasn't Uthman his son-in-law twice? And of course he's going to use Sunni ahadeeth to mock Islam. What Shia ahadeeth are readily available to read up? I mean this point is absolutely irrelevant. I could make a counterargument based on the fact he came from a Shia family. And Sunnis do have sufficient replies, but lots of it is in the Arabic and Urdu languages, not English. One of my friends has a book citing 1,000+ sources of tahreef in Shia sources. You just have AA which translates lots of stuff.
  19. Look, there are only three conditions under which a Muslim can be killed: One, by cheating on your wife (adultery). Two, becoming an apostate. Three, killing an innocent Muslim. Which of the three did Uthman (ra) do? He did not commit adultery. He did not become an apostate. And finally, he did not kill any Muslims. In fact, he gave his OWN life away just so that the civil war would be delayed. Yet you still slander this man? And please tell me how people would become tired of his montary policies. It is well known that Uthman (ra)'s reign brought new territory and therefore lots of war spoils to be distributed. And your allegation about how he unjustly benefitted his family members is also a lie. He only gave to his family members what their due was, and other benefits came out of his pocket (not the Bayt al-Mawl).
  20. @ Dar'ul Islam: "Hmm I'm going to stick with Imam `Ali , the boy whom he raised and gave the hand of his only daughter to + a list of other near-endless fadhilaah and Bibi Fatima whom is his only (surviving) daughter, leader of the women of the worlds and paradise, mother of his beloved Hasan and Husayn + near-endless fadhilaah." Why do you have to exaggerate your praises to the point where it seems that the Ahl-al Bayt is more important than the Prophet SW himself? Look, of course Fatima and Ali are some of the greatest Muslims to ever walk the earth, but it's not like the Prophet loved these people and did not love others. You basically force Sunni refuters into a Catch-22 because we would never seek to disclaim or hurt the status of Ali or Fatima. We just can't stand it when you give him infallible, god-like status. @ shiya: The Prophet SW, once again, loved many people. One time he said to close every mosque's door except for the one belonging to Abu Bakr. Does this mean that Abu Bakr is a saint and he we must call upon him to intercede for us? No! It simply means that he was a man worthy of Jannat al-Firdaws, who will be under the shade of Allah on the Day of Judgment, iA. @ shiya (2nd): Well, in the Sunni opinion, it's the Shias who are attacking Islam from behind the back, which poses more of a threat than any Jewish or Christian force.
  21. Okay, then somebody tell me why being rich is a virtue in Sunni Islam? And it's common knowledge that Uthman donated for many of the battles and the ummah as a whole. He even purchased a well worth 40,000 dirhams (I believe), and the Prophet SW subsequently promised him Paradise.
  22. Okay, first off nothing harms Allah (swt), although I do not know the official Shia stance. And just because He created evil doesn't mean that we associate Him with it. Allah (swt) also created pigs, Shaytan, and many other un-pristine things. And in terms of good and bad deeds, although Allah (swt) creates it, it's still our duty to earn it. And that's not a bad ideology, because none of us have a license to interpret which verses are literal and which ones are not. Trying to guestimate what the verse might mean without any prior knowledge is the most hated sin outside of shirk.
  23. "Yeh bataiyey kay, aap sunnion kay peechay haat dho kar kyuin parain hain? (roman urdu main isliyay likha hai taakay kisi sunni ko samajh main naa aye)" Wow shut up Basim Ali, I'm from Pakistan, but I guess that is a form of taqqiyah. And since when is being rich a virtuous thing? Are there are Sunni hadiths of Quranic verses you have to support this? Being rich is a virtue if you give a lot of it back to the poor and the ummah, which Uthman (ra) did.
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