nastynas

Ok but what did that have to do with your above posts?

Couldn't you find an older thread to bump up? lol :yaali:

Saheb, what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?

Respectfully sister Huda, What you mentioned above is not taqleed! Taqleed is following ONLY ONE marja without the privilege of seeking advice from another marja! Also, in contrast to what you've said, they do not 'explain' anything in the majority of cases (in my experience) whilst issuing a fatwa. No, it is seeking advice and knowledge that will help us, arguablly taqleed restricts this by not allowing us the experience and guidence of other marajae. Absolutely, there were instances of groups of followers of one marja sending lanat upon followers of other marja for begining Ramadhan on different days! This came as a huge shock to many (including me) and may be something that needs to be addressed sooner rather then later! Ya Ali (as) Madad.

Which peers exactly? It may be an idea to not be ignorant and use conjecture as your only weapon of attack but if you believe sister Azadar is from USA do you have any proof? Isn't it strange that you suddenly joined shiachat JUST to reply to sister Azadar? Why not use your real identity? What are you soo afraid of? And then you say mominonline has an agenda lol. May Allah (swt)s infinate curses be upon the liars and decievers! :shaytan: :yaali:

Thanks Macisaac, So you admit (for whatever reason)they do NOT provide proof! That's all I wanted to know, thanks again! :yaali:

IF a mujtahid (and I have no doubt) is well versed in the 'ahkam' of Ahadeeth and Qur'an then why does he not provide proof? You ask me to research on the history of Allama Hilli? lol.. See that in itself is fine, but if you ask a non taqleedi, he would say 'read up on the history of the Aima Ma'sumin (as)' and THIS is the difference between a taqleedi and a NON Taqleedi. Ohh Please... by you saying I am arguing for the sake of argument doesn't make it true! And do not try the 'consider this my last post' as trying to say I was the one who was ignorant when it is YOU who can not provide a single bit of proof! Anyone reading this will see right through your 'cleverly' twisted argument! :yaali: Ya Ali (as) Madad

Okkk... But where is the 'proof' for the above? Does it say a single bit of that in the teachings of the Aima (as) or the Qur'an? The 3rd point being absolutely false btw (according to marja e taqleed sistani). Why don't you provide proof rather then 'he said this'? Respectfuly I am not interested in what anyone says unless they can back it up with proof from the Qur'an or the teachings of the Aima Ma'sumin (as).

Splzo you said: why is the admin of the site supposed to be asking the questions to macisaac.... did he suddenly become a marja or the representitive to sistani all of a sudden? the point was the marja e taqleed or the representitive from the offices refused to answer the questions! it is them and their representitives responsible for answering their muqallids. What you probably expected was a faqih to be described by the Masumeen asws as one who is a Jurist. This is the common understanding of most people….that a Faqih is a person who is an expert in the principles of jurisprudence (Usool E Fiqh). But the Holy Infallibles (asws) have described a Faqih as a person who understands their position. For example when Imam Husayn (asws) wrote a letter to Habib Ibn Mazahir to invite him for help he addressed it as ‘From Abu Abdillah Al Husayn to a man of understanding (Rajool Un Faqih) Habib Ibn Mazahir’. Can someone now tell me as to which Usool E Fiqh did Habib Ibn Mazahir study or whether he used to issue any verdicts (Fatawa)? When you study the whole of Imam Husayn (asws)’s letter you will realize the connotation of the epitaph ‘Man of Understanding’ that He (asws) used for Habib Ibn Mazahir (ra). He (asws) says in his letter ’O Habib! You are aware of our station and position, therefore come to our help’. It is now established that according to Imam Husayn (asws) the ‘Faqih’ is one who understands the position and the station of the Imam (asws). This word has no relationship with the branches (Furoo) of religion. This is the reason why the Holy Imams (asws) never recognized these so called Fuqaha as Faqih. Wasaail Us Shia Vol 11 H 27; Bihar Ul Anwaar Vol. 82 H 2; Rijal Kashi Vol 3. Imam Sadiq (asws) said: Understand the status of our Shias according to the good reports from us for we do not recognise the Faqih from among them to be a Faqih unless he becomes a Muhaddith (Narrator of traditions) What! The mujtahadeen spend their entire lives learning Fiqh, then how come the Holy Imams (a.s.) refuses to recognise them as such? Is it because they base their Ijtihad on the Usool E Fiqh taken from the enemies of the Holy Ahl Ul Bayt (asws)? Think again about what I have just said! Al KAFI - H 206, Ch. 22, h8 (EXTRACT) It is reported that: A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn uhammad ibn Khalid from ‘Isma’il ibn Mihran from abu Sa‘id al-Qammat and Salih ibn Sa‘id from Aban ibn Taghlib who has said the following: “Once a man asked a question from Imam abu Ja’far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who replied to it, and then the man said, ‘The Fuqaha do not say this.’ “The Imam [asws] then said, ‘It is a pity. Have you ever seen a Faqih? Look at the question here. Have you ever seen a Faqih? So what were those guys who used to walk around with turbans on their head posing as Faqihs? Maybe it is because of this Hadeeth. AL KAFI - H 167, Ch. 19, h11م Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from al-Washsha’ from Muthanna al-Hannat from abu Basir who has said the following:“Once I asked (Imam) abu ‘Abd Allah [asws], recipient of divine supreme covenant, saying, ‘We may face an issue about which there is nothing said in the book of Allah or in the Sunnah, tradition of the Holy Prophet, recipient of divine supreme covenant, can we use our own opinion in such matters?’ The Imam [asws] replied, ‘No, you must not do that. If you, in this way, find the truth you will receive no rewards for it, and if you missed the truth you have forged lies against Allah, the Majestic, the Glorious.’” So it does not matter whether he gets it right, as there is no reward for him for that. And if he gets it wrong? Imagine spending you entire life in a Madrassah in a far away land, publishing your own book of emulation for people to follow, answering thousands of questions posed by them, and then find out there is no reward waiting for you on the Day of Judgment for all your right answers. For all your wrong answers you will be classified as a forger of lies and be deserving of Hell. What a waste of life that would be. The forger of lies against Allah (s.w.t.) will end up in Hell as he is the most unjust. [shakir 6:144] Who, then, is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah that he should lead astray men without knowledge? Surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. Not only that, they have been regarded as evil people by the Holy Prophet (sawws).

How do I make this as simple as possible for you? I have asked for proof from the Qur'an and Ahdeeth, if that can not be provided then I do not care as to what kind of aql or waql arguments you provide. You stated yourself, we have the Qur'an and Ahadeeth, you did not say anything about aql or figs or trees etc etc... You know my criteria, Qur'an and Ahadeeth.. Either you can give me proof via them sources or you can't. Which is it? Welcome to the Usooli school of thought bro! LOL, you really do ammuse me! (I must admit) you have done an EXTRMELY clever job of twisting words to make it sound like your right without providing a shread of evidence. When I provide mine then you add exclusions and all of a sudden be more specific lol. No matter how clever you 'think' you are, the truth always shines through bro! If you were actually THAT clever you would questions these beliefs that you keep twisiting just to try winning an argument! Oh btw, calling me ignornat in every other sentance really doesn't help your cause!

Yes I can read, and I expect nothing better then insults from a shichat mod losing a taqleed debate (it must hurt) and even though I have already provided the proof you ask again? Also, can you quote me saying 'you' said following only one marja is wajib? The rules of taqleed state that according to a marje e taqleed sistani.. LOOK.. http://sistani.org/l...bid=59&pid=2845 7) If an A'lam Mujtahid gives a fatwa on some matter, his follower can NOT act in that matter on the fatwa of another Mujtahid. 14) If a person performs his acts for some time without taqlid of a Mujtahid, and later follows a Mujtahid, his former actions will be valid if that Mujtahid declares them to be valid, otherwise they will be treated as void So no provide me proof from the Qur'an and Ahdeeth! FYI the Qur'an and Ahadeeth doesn't include 'three points and pointers' so if you could PLEASEEEE give me proof from Islam (Quran & Ahadeeth) thank you!. Listen here genious, if you're not willing to paste the 'proof' in here, why should I be bothered to go to other topics to read it? We are discussing the issue here! Or do I give you random Non Taqleed website links and expect the discussion to end with that? If you can not provide the proof here then kindly refrain from posting! :yaali: