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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shaul Rahman

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  1. (bismillah) (salam) CYPRESS... Mary Magdalena is no the sister of Jesus (as) . Where did you get that from? Also, thank you all for your answers. But I thought the basis for translating names were to observe the meaning in the names.... what else is a translation of a name? i mean then it becomes a new name.... if not, how is it still the same name?... small thing, but major impact on my faith in the Quran.. wasalaam
  2. (bismillah) (salam) Asalaamu Alaikum I have a question regarding names in the Quran. This might sound a little agressive but I dont really know how to put it. The father of Virgin Mary according to the Qur'an is Imran, am i right? This comes from the Hebrew name Amran, wich means "Exalted Nation". According to Christian scriptures Mary's father was named Joakim(not sure of its hebrew/aramaic origin). This means "Rising of the Lord" or "Establishing of the Lord". Now, Moses(alayhisalaam)'s father was named Imran. And the Qur'an also says ..... in Surat Maryam:28 "O Sister of Haroon"... etc. Now I was told that this means that she is a decendant of Haroon and Musa and not the actuall Sister. Okay, I accept that. BUT Musa and Haroon had a sister named Mary. And their fathers name was Imran, while Virgin Mary's father was named Joakim.... but the Quran says Imran. Am i right? These are not the same names, they dont have the same meaning. Please try to clarify this to me if possible. Because I have recognized the same thing with Isa(alayhisalaam). His hebrew/aramaic name is Yahshuah wich means "God Saves". Yushua is concidered a muslim name wich also means "God Saves". But Isa means "Spacious" or "generous", once again there is an error. These are two places in the Qur'an that straight up seems to be WRONG. Who got it wrong? Now they doesnt change the doctrine, but they are big enough to make me doubt if the Qur'an is the word of Allah. Because Allah should know the names. Or is the common belief that all people before the Quran had got the names wrong? Or is this something that havnt even been brought up among muslims? I hope it doesnt sound like im accusing y'all or something, I just didnt know how to put it. I'm also a Muslim, but Im a former Christian.... May Allah(swt) bless you, Brothers.
  3. To know what the Qur'an says about her you should go to the source. Surat Maryam(19) (bismillah) 1.Kâf Hâ Yâ'Aîn Sâd. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'ân, and none but Allâh (Alone) knows their meanings]. 2.(This is) a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave Zakariya (Zachariah). 3.When he called out his Lord (Allâh) a call in secret, 4.Saying: "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord! 5."And Verily! I fear my relatives after me, since my wife is barren. So give me from Yourself an heir, 6."Who shall inherit me, and inherit (also) the posterity of Ya'qûb (Jacob) (inheritance of the religious knowledge and Prophethood, not the wealth, etc.). And make him, my Lord, one with whom You are Well-pleased!". 7.(Allâh said) "O Zakariya (Zachariah)! Verily, We give you the glad tidings of a son, His name will be Yahya (John). We have given that name to none before (him)." 8.He said: "My Lord! How can I have a son, when my wife is barren, and I have reached the extreme old age." 9.He said: "So (it will be). Your Lord says; It is easy for Me. Certainly I have created you before, when you had been nothing!" 10.[Zakariya (Zachariah)] said: "My Lord! Appoint for me a sign." He said: "Your sign is that you shall not speak unto mankind for three nights, though having no bodily defect." 11.Then he came out to his people from Al-Mihrâb (a praying place or a private room, etc.), he told them by signs to glorify Allâh's Praises in the morning and in the afternoon. 12.(It was said to his son): "O Yahya (John)! Hold fast the Scripture [the Taurât (Torah)]." And We gave him wisdom while yet a child. 13.And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant) from Us, and pure from sins [i.e. Yahya (John)] and he was righteous, . 14.And dutiful towards his parents, and he was neither an arrogant nor disobedient (to Allâh or to his parents). 15.And Salâmun (peace) be on him the day he was born, the day he dies, and the day he will be raised up to life (again)! 16.And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân, O Muhammad SAW , the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing east. 17.She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects. 18.She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allâh) from you, if you do fear Allâh." 19.(The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son." 20.She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?" 21.He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allâh): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allâh), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allâh).' " 22.So she conceived him[], and she withdrew with him to a far place (i.e. Bethlehem valley about 4-6 miles from Jerusalem). And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said: "Would that I had died before this, and had been 23.forgotten and out of sight!" 24.Then [the babe 'Iesa (Jesus) or Jibrael (Gabriel)] cried unto her from below her, saying: "Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you; 25."And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe-dates upon you." 26."So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say: 'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.'" 27.Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: "O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariya (an unheard mighty thing). 28."O sister (i.e. the like) of Hârûn (Aaron) [not the brother of Mûsa (Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of Maryam (Mary)]! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman." 29.Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?[]" 30."He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allâh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;[]" 31."And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salât (prayer), and Zakât, as long as I live." 32."And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest. 33."And Salâm (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!" 34.Such is 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute). 35.It befits not (the Majesty of) Allâh that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allâh, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allâh]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is[]. 36.['Iesa (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allâh is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allâh's Religion of Islâmic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets)." [Tafsir At-Tabarî] 37.Then the sects differed [i.e. the Christians about 'Iesa (Jesus) >>], so woe unto the disbelievers [those who gave false witness by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allâh] from the meeting of a great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire)[]. 38.How clearly will they (polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) see and hear, the Day when they will appear before Us! But the Zalimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers) today are in plain error. 39.And warn them (O Muhammad SAW) of the Day of grief and regrets, when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe not[]. 40.Verily! We will inherit the earth and whatsoever is thereon. And to Us they all shall be returned, 41.And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân) Ibrâhim (Abraham). Verily! He was a man of truth, a Prophet. 42.When he said to his father: "O my father! Why do you worship that which hears not, sees not and cannot avail you in anything? 43."O my father! Verily! There has come to me of knowledge that which came not unto you. So follow me. I will guide you to a Straight Path. 44."O my father! Worship not Shaitân (Satan). Verily! Shaitân (Satan) has been a rebel against the Most Beneficent (Allâh). 45."O my father! Verily! I fear lest a torment from the Most Beneficent (Allâh) overtake you, so that you become a companion of Shaitân (Satan) (in the Hell-fire)." [Tafsir Al-Qurtubî] 46.He (the father) said: "Do you reject my gods, O Ibrâhim (Abraham)? If you stop not (this), I will indeed stone you. So get away from me safely before I punish you." 47.Ibrâhim (Abraham) said: "Peace be on you! I will ask Forgiveness of my Lord for you. Verily! He is unto me, Ever Most Gracious. 48."And I shall turn away from you and from those whom you invoke besides Allâh. And I shall call on my Lord; and I hope that I shall not be unblest in my invocation to my Lord." 49.So when he had turned away from them and from those whom they worshipped besides Allâh, We gave him Ishâque (Isaac) and Ya'qûb (Jacob), and each one of them We made a Prophet. 50.And We gave them of Our Mercy (a good provision in plenty), and We granted them honour on the tongues (of all the nations, i.e everybody remembers them with a good praise).[] 51.And mention in the Book (this Qur'ân) Mûsa (Moses). Verily! He was chosen and he was a Messenger (and) a Prophet. 52.And We called him from the right side of the Mount, and made him draw near to Us for a talk with him [Mûsa (Moses)]. 53.And We bestowed on him his brother Hârûn (Aaron), (also) a Prophet, out of Our Mercy. 54.And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân) Ismâ'il (Ishmael). Verily! He was true to what he promised, and he was a Messenger, (and) a Prophet. 55.And he used to enjoin on his family and his people As-Salât (the prayers) and the Zakât, and his Lord was pleased with him. 56.And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân) Idris (Enoch).Verily! He was a man of truth, (and) a Prophet. 57.And We raised him to a high station. 58.Those were they unto whom Allâh bestowed His Grace from among the Prophets, of the offspring of Adam, and of those whom We carried (in the ship) with Nûh (Noah), and of the offspring of Ibrâhim (Abraham) and Israel and from among those whom We guided and chose. When the Verses of the Most Beneficent (Allâh) were recited unto them, they fell down prostrating and weeping.[] 59.Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salât (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salât (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times, etc.] and have followed lusts.[] So they will be thrown in Hell. 60.Except those who repent and believe (in the Oneness of Allâh and His Messenger Muhammad SAW), and work righteousness[]. Such will enter Paradise and they will not be wronged in aught. 61.(They will enter) 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (everlasting Gardens), which the Most Beneficent (Allâh) has promised to His slaves in the unseen: Verily! His Promise must come to pass. 62.They shall not hear therein (in Paradise) any Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk), but only Salâm (salutations of peace). And they will have therein their sustenance, morning and afternoon. 63.Such is the Paradise which We shall give as an inheritance to those of Our slaves who have been Al-Muttaqûn (pious and righteous persons - See V.2:2). 64.And we (angels) descend not except by the Command of your Lord (O Muhammad SAW). To Him belongs what is before us and what is behind us, and what is between those two, and your Lord is never forgetful, 65.Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). [There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer][]. 66.And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?" 67.Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing? 68.So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayâtin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees. 69.Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allâh). 70.Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein. 71.There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished[]. 72.Then We shall save those who use to fear Allâh and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell). 73.And when Our Clear Verses are recited to them, those who disbelieve (the rich and strong among the pagans of Quraish who live a life of luxury) say to those who believe (the weak, poor companions of Prophet Muhammad SAW who have a hard life): "Which of the two groups (i.e. believers and disbelievers) is best in (point of) position and as regards station (place of council for consultation)." 74.And how many a generation (past nations) have We destroyed before them, who were better in wealth, goods and outward appearance? 75.Say (O Muhammad SAW) whoever is in error, the Most Beneficent (Allâh) will extend (the rope) to him, until, when they see that which they were promised, either the torment or the Hour, they will come to know who is worst in position, and who is weaker in forces. [This is the answer for the Verse No.19:73] 76.And Allâh increases in guidance those who walk aright [true believers in the Oneness of Allâh who fear Allâh much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden), and love Allâh much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]. And the righteous good deeds that last, are better with your Lord, for reward and better for resort. 77.Have you seen him who disbelieved in Our Ayât (this Qur'ân and Muhammad SAW) and (yet) says: "I shall certainly be given wealth and children [if I will be alive (again)]," 78.Has he known the unseen or has he taken a covenant from the Most Beneficent (Allâh)? 79.Nay! We shall record what he says, and We shall increase his torment (in the Hell); 80.And We shall inherit from him (at his death) all that he talks of (i.e. wealth and children which We have bestowed upon him in this world), and he shall come to Us alone. 81.And they have taken (for worship) âliha (gods) besides Allâh, that they might give them honour, power and glory (and also protect them from Allâh's Punishment etc.). 82.Nay, but they (the so-called gods) will deny their worship of them, and become opponents to them (on the Day of Resurrection). 83.See you not that We have sent the Shayâtin (devils) against the disbelievers to push them to do evil. 84.So make no haste against them; We only count out to them a (limited) number (of the days of the life of this world and delay their term so that they may increase in evil and sins). 85.The Day We shall gather the Muttaqûn (pious - see V.2:2) unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh), like a delegate (presented before a king for honour). 86.And We shall drive the Mujrimûn (polytheists, sinners, criminals, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh, etc.) to Hell, in a thirsty state (like a thirsty herd driven down to water), 87.None shall have the power of intercession, but such a one as has received permission (or promise) from the Most Beneficent (Allâh). 88.And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allâh) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ) >>], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]." 89.Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing. 90.Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins, 91.That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allâh). 92.But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allâh) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children). 93.There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh) as a slave. 94.Verily, He knows each one of them, and has counted them a full counting. 95.And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender). 96.Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh and in His Messenger (Muhammad SAW)] and work deeds of righteousness, the Most Beneficent (Allâh) will bestow love for them[] (in the hearts of the believers). 97.So We have made this (the Qur'ân) easy in your own tongue (O Muhammad SAW), only that you may give glad tidings to the Muttaqûn (pious and righteous persons - See V.2:2), and warn with it the Ludda[] (most quarrelsome) people. 98.And how many a generation before them have We destroyed! Can you (O Muhammad SAW) find a single one of them or hear even a whisper of them?
  4. (bismillah) (salam) Thank you for your replies dear Brothers. So is it also permissible to call Isa (as) our Saviour?
  5. A'udhu billahi minash shaytanir rajeem (bismillah) (salam) I have heard Shia's calling him there Saviour. My first thought was that this must be prohibited. If not, how come? I hope i can find a answer here. Thank you
  6. (bismillah) (salam) All i ask from you my Brother is to please read the Qur'an. I don't know if you already have. But please try to read it with an open mind, even though i know it can be very hard. But atleast try reading it, and pray to God. And inshaAllah you will be lead onto the right path. I can't prove you wrong, nor can i prove myself right. All i can do is believe in what has been revealed to our Prophets(Alayhimus Salaam). Wasalaam
  7. (salam) I know that the Dead Sea Scrolls are supposed to be accurate. I havn't actually looked into them myself, therefor I am sorry to say that i can't really talk about them at a serious level. But I know that the Jews were very good at this, because they studied sciptures often at very young ages and they were often very dedicated. So they learned how to write etc. Therefor there were many that became good at these things. How do you know that Matthew the Taxcollector wrote the Gospel of Matthew? Could it not just have been someone with the same name? It's probably not a very unusual name, just as many other of the names at that time were very common. Matthew is mentioned in the Gospels therefor the name would be trustworthy itself. But I'm not gonna say that someone claimed to be someone they weren't. But where does the Gospel of Matthew say that it is the Taxcollector and not some ohter Matthew? Some of the Apocryphal Gospels are written very late, what we know of. But also we don't have all these old manuscripts that we are talking about. We don't have the original 4 cannonised Gospels from the years they are supposed to be written. We believe they are older than we know, because the manuscripts found were already in circulation. The same goes for some of the Apocryphical Gospels. Q is a source that we believe exists, but we are not sure that it does. Please correct me if i'm wrong, but do we have this Q source? And offcourse he used Paul, I mean Acts mentions it, aswell as it's easy to understand after reading them. Luke and Paul got the same message all through. About the Gospels not contradicting eachother, well i understand what you're talkin about. The gospels DON'T contradict, per se, but they just mention different things. I mentioned this before in an earlier post. They say things that happened from their point of view, or from the point of view of the person dictating, in the case of Mark and Luke. I have been a Christian, and when i was, offcourse i didn't see them as contradicting eachother. The knowledge i got on Christianity is not by any Arabian scholars. They got education, and the Priests and Scholars that they(and I used to) talk to are educated. Now, I know that there are scholars who hold different opinions on this subject. And sure the ones you quoted probably hold these beliefs. But are you claiming that there is no scholars of high eminence that hold the same beliefs that i do? Historians, Theologians, Archeologists etc. I believe that we have used a very harsh tone(if possible while typing) against eachother. I will try to contact my peoples and see if they can give me their sources. And what degrees of education they have themselfs. May God Lead Us Right
  8. It is possible for Matthew to write in third person. But not in the way that he does. He makes it very clear that he did not know this Matthew he wrote of. If it was Matthew the taxcollectors testimony, he would have known that people will not believe it's authenticy. And when you say that he was guided by the Holy Spirit it seems like Kufar to me. Because i don't believe that the power of God would confuse people in this way. You have already decided that the Taxcollector wrote it, so is there any reason for me to argue with you? I don't care about the guy you quoted, because he is one of a few to hold that beliefs. And those who accept his statements as true are uneducated. Because you can ask whatever scholar you want and most of them will be on 'my side'. These Christian scholars probably won't deny the Holy Spirit being involved, but that the essence of the message hasnt been distorted. I don't have the curage to say that the Bible is wrong or anything, but I don't believe that it is accurate. I believe in Jesus (as) as the Messiah, and I believe in the teachings of Jesus (as) that doesn't contradict the Qur'an. And I'm not sure if any of his teachings does. Atleast I got people like Shaykh Ahmed Deedat(R.I.P) with me on this one. What we don't believe to be true is the authors point of view. The way they form the Gospels. Because they are actually making you believe that Jesus (as) meant something that he doesn't really say. And I could continue for weeks on this to be honest. We would have to set up an debate to settle this properly. I don't concider your sources to be reliable but i respect your studies. Atleast you seem to have been trying to learn, wich i love. Education is a beautiful thing. You are saying that only Luke used Mark? Once again you are going against the learned men. And alot of them believe that they only used Mark and no other source. Wich means that your Christian scholars says that Matthew and Luke used it freely, that everything other than what is written in Mark is personal opinion. The early Church thought that Matthew the Taxcollector wrote the Gospel of Matthew? Well sure, I'm not going to argue with you about that. But they also thought that Matthew was the first written Gospel. Also we aren't talking about the 1st or 2nd century Church exactly. The belief of Mark being a disciple of Peter is also a theory, yes. But there are also alot of scholars who believes that the Gospel of Mark has "copied" another Gospel. Offcourse this Gospel is nowhere to be found, so it's a mere theory. But some believe this because of the way it is written. Like i said i'm not one of these learned men, and i'm not very good with the ancient languages. So therefor it's hard for me to give my personal opinion. That Luke is written by Luke, I won't deny that. But also here are Christian scholars who says that it wasn't really written by the same guy who wrote Acts. But sure, In the Gospel of Luke you can really see how his teachings goes together with Paul's. While the other Gospels aren't "Paulish" at all. Nowhere in the Gospels does it say that for example The Taxcollector wrote it, or any other implication of it's kind. Do you think that the writers of the Gospels had very unusual names? Noo, These were common names. Like if a Prophet(astagfirullah) would have came today and he had a disciple named John. And someone named John wrote a book about the Prophet(astagfirullah) would you assume that it must have been the disciple? If so, you aren't very smart, I'm sorry to say it. Also, some Christians claim that The Gospel of John aswell as Book of Revelations was written by the Disciple. But most learned Christians deny this. To be honest, I can't name these scolars out of my memory. I will have to look it up, but please stick your head out the window and and ask some scholars, other than the ones you have asked or read books from. Because i talked to some Christian brothers today and they laughed when i told them what you have been telling the people on this forum. And they are educated Christians. There are similarities between Egyptian, Greek and Roman mythology. And i saw the similarities between them and Christianity as soon as i started to read about them. But sure offcourse they are not the same, because Christian beliefs are rooted in the religion of the true God. Christians are worshipping the right God, but in the wrong way(according to my beliefs). Like i said i have been a Christian, so i am very well aware of the different Christian beliefs that exists. If you look up the word begotten in your dictionary you will see that it is an attribution you don't want to give God. Also i know that a Jew is a Jew, no matter religion. That was what i was trying to point out, I'm sorry if you took it the other way. The word "Judaism" is not even a real word. That is because the Jews were doing their best to worship the true God in the right way. Therefor it was reality and not some kind of "ism". I know that some scripture was written in Aramaic. By the time of Jesus (as) not that many people spoke Hebrew. You are right that the Trinity has become a basic part of the Christian beliefs. But was the Trinity preached? No, you claim that it was, I say not one single time. I believe in God and I believe in his Prophets as unfalliable in bringing the word of God to the people. I don't believe in the people being infalliable though. That's why the messages gets distorted. But i believe that God will preserve his word at the end of the day. Just as Jesus (as) corrected the people for straying away from Moses (as) , so did Muhammad (pbuh) correct the people for straying away from the teachings of Jesus (as) . And all of this were words given by God to the Prophets (as) . Do you deny the verses i mentioned to have been edited in after a long time? Such as the "The one without sin shall cast the first stone"?... Also, yes i know of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they doesnt change anything i have just said. About the Son of Man being compared to a maggot, I will give you the verse later tonight. I don't have it memorised, but oh i will deliver it to you my brother. I know that Bar Nacha is Son of a Human/son of human beings BUT what is the difference between a human and a son of a human? And like I said I am very sorry for not being able to adress the scholars I am talking about. And I'm admitting this with the risk of looking like a fool. But i will try contact the Priests and Scholars that shared this information with me and ask them for the different names of the ones who they have quoted to me. But I hope that you understand that I can't do this tonight, and it might not be possible for me to do so. Because these are Priests and Scholars and might not always have the time to talk to me. May God lead us all right.
  9. The oldest New Testament in existence is Codex Vaticanus(is that the name?). "Yea, you are right about that verse in 1 John. However, its mostly only contested by Jehovah's witnesses whom almost no one believes nowadays, with their spouting off about the end of the world every few weeks." No actually not only Jehova's Witnesses use this. Aswell as "The one without sin shall cast the first stone", isn't in the oldest manuscript. This is believed to have been edited, and not in the original manuscripts. There are alot more verses that were edited into the Bible later on.... hundreads of years after they were written. "By your logic, if the Qur'an says that muhammed is the messenger of Allah, it doesnt mean he is a prophet?" Why shouldn't it? Every Rasul is a Nabi but not all Anbiya are Rusul. Why would i contradict myself by saying that i don't believe tha father speaks in such a way that people standing by the one He's talking to would hear it. I may be wrong, astagfirullah. Is it telepathic? I don't know, do you know God in person? Do you know how He comunicates with us? Alot of Christians say that they do, they even say that God talks to them, is that with words? Did his friend standing by him hear it? Most Christians say no, but in a Biblical case it's not the same? You contradict your own beliefs. But offcourse you might not be one of these/those. And no i don't hold Paul to be a reliable source but that is because i don't believe in his revelations. But the oldest biblical scripture found is Paul, so he is the most reliable source. You say that Paul may not have been the earliest source. We know that Paul talked about Jesus (as) according to the scriptures. He says "The scriptures says that he...". But is this Mark? Is this Matthew? I say no, because the belief the scholars hold is that that couldnt be the case. Because they say Mark wasnt written, and neither was Matthew, and i will believe the scholars until something else is prooven. Also the scholars believe that atleast Luke and probably Matthew too, used the Gospel of Mark freely. Wich means that the Gospel of Mark was their only source, and that everything that differs from Mark is what they did all by themselfs. And that is your Christian scholars. The trinity exists because you believe in the ten commandments? Only one God, and you had to made up a trinity so you dont contradict the very basic beliefs of God-Yhwh-El-Eli-Elah-Allah. But i do understand the Trinity. But either you contradict the Bible, or you you are on a "God is everything" level. And why is Jesus (as) a part of God then, but not you? astagfirullah. But I know what the trinity stands for, and i have even believed in it myself for awhile. The Vatican does believe in the Trinity, yes i would be a fool to deny that. The major Churches recognises the Trinity, but it is not a "must believe", once again according to your Christian scholars. As soon as i get time i will try to read "The Case for Christ". "And no, the son of man does NOT translate into human being. It translates into son of man. What did you think?? Its talking about how Christ is the son of God, and of man, Mary. (and please dont say anything about Mary not being a man, because its referring to MANKIND)." Yes but the exact same words are translated into human being on several other places. BAR NACHA. Son of Man, but the common use was human being. The Old Testament makes a difference between them in one place though. That compared to God the man is a maggot, and the son of man is nothing but a maggot. If the son of man automaticly is Jesus (as) then you are saying that God/Son of God is nothing but a maggot. Are you saying that aswell? If not, why are you going against the supposed word of God? "Ok, so once again, YOU don't hold christianity to be accurate. Go say that and defy the millions of other scholars that have studied more and hold to my point of view." Strange that they aren't the entrusted ones in Christianity. Because those who are concidered scholars of high eminence are saying exactly what i am. And are you claiming that Christianity havnt been inspired by pagan beliefs? And NO, the Roman and the Egyptian stories aren't always the same but there are similarities. Aswell as the Greek religions fit in there aswell. Have i said that God chose Mary because she was hot or that God wanted sexual pleasure? AtqaAllah. I understand your points, but I am not the one claiming that he is BEGOTTEN. Do you know what the word BEGOTTEN means? Please tell me. There are jews that believe that Jesus (as) is the Messiah. Have i claimed to be a scholar? No, but they are the ones giving the knowledge. Your Christian scholars. Yes there are scriptures that were written in Aramaic, aswell as in Hebrew. But your New Testament was written in GREEK, entirely. Why didnt anyone write anything in their mothertounge? And you call Matthew an eyewittness!!! He(Jesus alayhi salaam) saw a man named Matthew by the taxcollectors table"... And He(Matthew) went unto Jesus(alayhi salaam" etc. Not word by word, but you get the point im trying to make. Íf this was Matthew he must have known that it is more reliable to mention that he is himself, wouldnt he know that? So if this was Matthew who wrote this, he was stupid and cannot have been guided by any holy spirit. astagfirullah. "Would you expect someone from now to know all the governors and presidents that existed 50-100 years ago?" First off all, he doesnt record all the presidents, and all the governors. He mentions a few names. And today it would have been a catosraphy to not beeing able to do it. Because everything is already recorded on computers etc. So making this comparision isn't worth anything. "Would you expect them to know their culture, and all the different events that went on back then?" Cultures and events, why shouldnt they be able to know that? You are acting like the weren't human beings. Also everything we know today isn't because of recorded events etc. It's because we saw it, or we heard about it etc. And yes you could look and search, not on google, maybe not in government records. But are you implying that these were the only possible ways to look it up? There were cencuses, okay. What does this prove? It still doesnt disprove that he used the Gospel of Mark freely. It still doesnt disrprove that what he know of Jesus (as) was inaccurate. You tell me to read, and believe me i have read. "On similarities and differences, most scholars refer to Q, which is what matthew and Luke got most of their stuff from." Q is supposed to be the source of some differences. But the similarities between Matthew and Luke are believed to be from the Gospel of Mark. Because the believe is still that they used the gospel of Mark freely. John has probably never read any of these, he was leaning more towards the gnostic beliefs. Most Churches didnt use the same Gospels, some did but they also had a numerous of other Gospels. And these are no longer accurate? They were good enough back then but no longer? Because they dont fit in to your belief system. "Yea, 50 people rising up from the dead is not something that would go unrecorded. That why gospels like Thomas and Bartholemew, etc are not included in the canon. :!!!:" But c'mon, how many of the cannonised Gospels mentions it? ONE, only ONE! So why is the other Gospels included? Throw out John and Luke because they dont record it. Throw out Matthew cus he doesnt record it. .............
  10. (bismillah) (salam) Thank you for you answers dear brethren.
  11. (bismillah) (salam) I'm not very well aware of Shia beliefs. I wonder how you look at Ayatullah Sistani. West is offcourse making him look like a man with cruel dictator views. So i thought i'd go to the source and ask the Ummah. Wasalaam
  12. (bismillah) (salam) Yeah, alcohol indeed destroy our homes. And western society as a whole doesn't see the problem in it.
  13. (bismillah) (salam) Christians doesn't believe that Jesus (as) is dead. They believed he died but was resurrected again. He is the Messiah and he will come back and slay the Anti-Christ. He's on the (metaphorical) "Right side of God" and God has given him the task to judge at doomsday. Not all Christians believe that Jesus (as) is God, and the Trinity concept is weak and even non-existing to some Christians. I hope this helped.
  14. Just so you know, you left out my post before this one. Atleast in the quote, just so you dont miss anything out my brother. Yeah theres alot of copies of the New Testament. But to be honest they differ in content pretty much, not in all cases though, but in alot of them. Alot of verses aren't there in the older manuscripts, and suddenly they pop up in later ones. I'm not saying there weren't alot of copies, what I am worried about is that the authorsa didn't write it how it went down. They may have done their best to put it down. But sometimes it seems like straight lies, God forgive me if I'm wrong. Like only 1 Gospel mentions that 50 people rose out of their graves and showed themselfs to the people. If 50 people rise out of there graves and take a walk around town, wouldn't the word spread? Wouldn't it be the top news? Wouldn't more than one author write about it? Yes there's Gospels in all languages, but still you claim that the only ones that are accurate are in Greek. And once again I'm not saying there werent alot of copies of different Gospels. Where do you find such a claim? YOU SAY "About the trinity: 1 John 5:7-8 says the father, the word, and the holy ghost are one." This is believed to not have been in the original manuscript, CHECK YOUR SOURCES. All scholars, check every university in the world and you will see what answers you will get. YOU SAY "Same with the gospels and the baptism ofJesus, where Jesus is baptised, the Father speaks, and the Holy Spirit descends upon him." And did people hear the Father speak? Even if they heard the Father speak, is Jesus (as) God all of the sudden? Does it prove a trinity? No! Also i don't believe that God uses words to communicate with humans. I may be wrong, but that's the belief i hold. Not the type of communication that if God talks to one, another one can hear it aswell. Have i claimed that Nicaea did all the editing? Also, i don't hold Paul to be a trustable source. Still he is the oldest source and therefor counted as the most reliable. But still, i don't believe in his vision. But sure, I'm not gonna refute your beliefs, because it is a case similar to the one of Muhammad (pbuh) . Neither have i claimed that the Trinity was invented by the council of Niceae, but they made it unlawful not to believe in it and say so. Are you claiming that you are a 100% sure that the Trinity is an accurate belief? If so, once again HOW. Because the verses you have showed me doesn't prove anything. The first is concidered very unreliable by CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS. The second doesn't say anything about a Trinity. The case could might aswell be that Paul showed respect to Jesus (as) and the Spirit. Not all Christians believed the Trinity, and absolutely not all Christians believe in it today. This is a believe that is mostly held in America, but in Europe the trinity and the divinity of Christ (as) isn't a must believe nowadays. And that's what Bishops have said, so don't blame me. Also alot of modern day Christians, including Priests, doesn't believe in the Virgin Birth. We do, it's a must for a muslim to do so. But i'm not hating on ya, offcourse alot of Christians still believe in it. The NT is 99.5 % pure? Statistics please.... Also what they use here is the manuscipts that they have. And the claim is that 99.5% of the content is the same, not word by word, but the message. But like i said that is of the manuscripts that they have. What is interesting is that no manuscript dates back to before Pauls letters. Still most Jews knew how to read and write. What does these 99.5% prove? Nothing, because the copies that you have found of the cannonised Gospels are copies. And I'm not saying my Bible looks the way it does cus of poor copyists. Well that might be the case aswell, but then it must have been very early copyists. What i claim is that the authors of the cannonised Gospels didn't know what really went down, they wrote off of hearsay, word of mouth. You agree with sunshine? So i havn't read books? Man what do you think i'm doing? You should go and find a better source than some weak googling my man. Talk to scholars, talk to Bishops, then hit me up. Also there has been founds of Qur'an Surahs that dates back to the time of the Prophet. So once again do your homework. "The son of man does not literally mean 'the son of man'." It's translated into human being in all places in the whole Bible except for the ones where Jesus (as) uses it. But okay, he means something different than all other people did. Yes man was created by God, and no he did not have sin. Sin came into the world when Adam ate the apple. Not off the temptation, still my temptaition is a sin itself? The "son" was innocent, well we all are until we sin. Jesus (as) is a creation not begotten. But still you claim that he is. How could he take Adams place when he isn't like Adam? Yes Jesus (as) didnt sin, what does that prove? NOTHING... Now you're claiming i wasn't a real Christian? I have read books, talked to Priests, and studied what scholars has to say about it. I know the different concepts, i am well aware of them. But i don't hold them to be accurate. What verse did i take out and interpret myself? I have as much knowledge as many Pastor's have my friend. Pastor is even a selfproclaimed title. Anyone who want to be a Pastor is a Pastor. Still you allow your Pastor to interpret scriptures, or maybe you don't? If not, who interprets it for you? About the Egyptians and Romans. In their culture there are mosre gods, yes. But the concepts are the same. Also alot of them had different religions, and they believed in one of these gods and the mother god and the son of god. They did not necessarily believe in more than one of them. The stories are often similar and the names and a slight difference is the only difference alot of times. "the sons were usually born out of Zeus' lust for some mortal woman like Semele." HOLD UP! Jesus (as) is the BEGOTTEN Son isn't he? Wich means that you Christians are claiming the EXACT SAME THING. God the Father making mortal woman Mary pregnant with the Son... or am i wrong? According to most Jews Jesus (as) didnt fullfill all the Prophecies. And according to me Christians made up their own Prophecies in alot of cases. Jesus (as) is the Messiah, and no muslim can deny that. Why? Because it is in the Qur'an. So I'm not saying there weren't any Prophecies. What i'm saying is that i believe that Christians read in to the Old Testament and created alot of their own Prophecies, and made them fit. "If son of man translated into human being, why use son of MAN instead of son of A MAN" Ask those who spoke the language fluently. Because BAR NACHA means SON OF MAN literally. But the meaning have always been human being. So why are you asking me why the gramatics of a language is used the way they are? Or are you claiming that they did not have the same word for human being and son of man? What would the difference between son of man and son of a man make to you? You can't use English as the standard model of all languages neither. Have i denied Jesus' (as) 's miracles? No, and once again, no muslim can deny the miracles. What we deny is that Jesus (as) did them by himself. It was God that did them through Jesus (as) a.k.a God sent him those miracles. "If the gospels were not written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, how could you explain their phenomenal historical accuracy??" What does that prove? That they knew what went down not to long ago? I havnt claimed that Luke was written a cnetury after the death of Jesus (as) . I said around 70 A.D. What makes you believe that one couldnt know wich governors reigned where just because he didnt write it at the same time? And about the details, they say different things. reigned where? And about the exact details of Jesus' trials and miracles? But let me ask you, what was written on the cross? What was Jesus' (as) last words? Where was Mary at when he died? Different Gospels says different things, am i wrong? Isn't that a contradiction? You said that almost no Christians doubted the authorship, because then they wouldnt been cannonised... What Christians doesnt doubt the authorship? And what Christians claim that any of the Gospels were written by eyes witnesses ala disciples? Please, and scholars only, not someone that's just in your Church.
  15. Okay, let me continue on answering the rest of the post. The Gospel of John contradicts the other Gospels and also alot of the Gospel isnt included in any other Gospel at all. Is this reliable? Another interesting thing that most Christians seems to miss, though not the scholars.. IS.. "Let who who is without sin cast the first stone" is NOT believed to have been in the original manuscript. It's not included in the oldest copies of the Gospel of John. People who believe in the Gospels and does not believe in the divinity arent Christians? Where does the term Chrisitan comes from? It comes from CHRISTLIKE. I have read Pauls Epistles. I have read the whole Bible numerous times. I am well aware of the Bibles teachings, I have been a Christian. Yes there are ancient copies of the Epistles, and they believe the oldest letter was written about 56 A.D. And he mentiones "the Scriptures" but nowhere does he say it is any of the Gospels that we know about. Paul backs up alot of what is in the Gospels, sure. But Pauls Epistles are older than the Gospels we have today!!! What does the son of man means if i may ask? It can be translated into human being, wich it has been throughout the old testament. I know about Prophecies. But it's easy to find Prophecies after things have happened. I can find things that looks like Prophecies in the Bible, but they werent believed to be Prophecies before Jesus (as) (wich proves nothing offcourse), and they werent believed to be Prophecies after the supposed death and resurrection either, by alot of Rabbis. Did it say he would be THE son of God? Or is it A son of God, wich many other Prophets have been called throughout the Old Testament. Does it says he will be the BEGOTTEN son of God? NO NOWHERE DOES IT SAY THIS. And that's what the Qur'an condemns. Allah HAS NOT BEGOTTED AND HAS NOT BEEN BEGOTTEN. I know about the pagan beliefs in Christianity, and the trinity doctrine is one of them. Didnt the Egyptians believe in the Gods having sons? Didnt the Romans believe in God havin a son? Are you claiming that the Constantine Bible wasnt lost? If so, why doesnt anyone have it today? Have i been mislead? Please proove to me how i have been mislead. Please, try to read the Qur'an, and try to find a GOOD translation that is recomended by MUSLIMS. If your theory still stands, fine. But you shouldnt count it out before you give it a try, and try to be open minded and open hearted my brother.
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