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In the Name of God بسم الله

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  1. So they banned you??

    Well, IF you can still somehow log on and read this:

    I'm glad they did. Now you can stop wasting your time here and devote your time to ourbeacon :-).

    Please write to me soon.

    Ciao.

  2. Don't misquote me. I never said that those who know classical Arabic = those who are firmly rooted in knowledge. What I said was that the Quran is not a mystical text. What I said was that knowledge of classical Arabic, is a tool that can help us crack the meaning of some words which appear strange to us today. It doesn't take a supra-genious to realize which verses are metaphorical and which verses are to be understood literally. The "MUHKAM" (governing) verses, which deal with laws (halal, haram, ettiquette, 10 commandments, marriage , divorce, orphans, contracts, wisdom ,etc...) are all to be understood litterally. THey are described by God as being the "essence of the book" (Ummul-Kitab). THese verses are not metaphoric, and anyone who understands classical Arabic CAN understand them. Now of course, according to you, it is haram to use our brain and think and ponder over the verses. We must remain blind sheep all our lives and sell our brains completely to our marja3s to do the thinking for us? Is it so difficult to notice which verses are allegorical and which are litteral?? Doesn't God say, in verse 3:7, that those who have desease in their hearts follow the allegorical part only, and ignore the muhkam part, in order to create fitna? So according to your twisted logic, those "deseased ones" must be the ones "who are firmly rooted in knowledge" since they have the ability to discern which verses are metaphoric , and follow them!!! Since you never use your brain when reading the Quran, (since doing so is a sin ), of course you will not know which are which. Just because you can't tell which are which, doesn't mean others can't. But I can give you plently of examples: The following verses are examples of MUHKAM (governing) verses, to be understood LITERALLY. Þá ÊÚÇáæÇ ÃÊá ãÇ ÍÑã ÑÈßã Úáíßã ÃáÇ ÊÔÑßæÇ Èå ÔíÁÇ æÈÇáæáÏíä ÅÍÓäÇ æáÇ ÊÞÊáæÇ ÃæáÏßã ãä ÅãáÞ äÍä äÑÒÞßã æÅíÇåã æáÇ ÊÞÑÈæÇ ÇáÝæÍÔ ãÇ ÙåÑ ãäåÇ æãÇ ÈØä æáÇ ÊÞÊáæÇ ÇáäÝÓ ÇáÊí ÍÑã Çááå ÅáÇ ÈÇáÍÞ Ðáßã æÕíßã Èå áÚáßã ÊÚÞáæä æáÇ ÊÞÑÈæÇ ãÇá ÇáíÊíã ÅáÇ ÈÇáÊí åí ÃÍÓä ÍÊì íÈáÛ ÃÔÏå æÃæÝæÇ Çáßíá æÇáãíÒÇä ÈÇáÞÓØ áÇ äßáÝ äÝÓÇ ÅáÇ æÓÚåÇ æÅÐÇ ÞáÊã ÝÇÚÏáæÇ æáæ ßÇä ÐÇ ÞÑÈì æÈÚåÏ Çááå ÃæÝæÇ Ðáßã æÕíßã Èå áÚáßã ÊÐßÑæä æÃä åÐÇ ÕÑØí ãÓÊÞíãÇ ÝÇÊÈÚæå æáÇ ÊÊÈÚæÇ ÇáÓÈá ÝÊÝÑÞ Èßã Úä ÓÈíáå Ðáßã æÕíßã Èå áÚáßã ÊÊÞæä [ Say: "Come let me recite for you what your Lord has forbidden for you: that you should not set up anything (partners) with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it or subtle; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend." "And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except by what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember." And this is My path, a Straight One. "So follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous." ] [6:151-153] Now tell me. Are the above verses Chinese? Are they "mystical", that we need "Imam Mehdi" to understand them? . When the prophet Muhamad uttered these verses and the people of his age heard them from his mouth, 1500 years ago , did they not understand them? Did they ask Muhamad to "translate" the verses for them? Were they all dimwitts who couldn't understand their own language? Other examples of litteral (Muhkam) governing verses: Åä ÇáãÓáãíä æÇáãÓáãÊ æÇáãÄãäíä æÇáãÄãäÊ æÇáÞäÊíä æÇáÞäÊÊ æÇáÕÏÞíä æÇáÕÏÞÊ æÇáÕÈÑíä æÇáÕÈÑÊ æÇáÎÔÚíä æÇáÎÔÚÊ æÇáãÊÕÏÞíä æÇáãÊÕÏÞÊ æÇáÕÆãíä æÇáÕÆãÊ æÇáÍÝÙíä ÝÑæÌåã æÇáÍÝÙÊ æÇáÐßÑíä Çááå ßËíÑÇ æÇáÐßÑÊ ÃÚÏ Çááå áåã ãÛÝÑÉ æÃÌÑÇ ÚÙíãÇ [surely, the submitting men, and the submitting women, the believing men, and the believing women, the dutiful men, and the dutiful women, the truthful men, and the truthful women, the patient men, and the patient women, the humble men, and the humble women, the charitable men, and the charitable women, the fasting men, and the fasting women, the men who keep covered their private parts, and the women who similarly keep covered, and the men who commemorate God frequently, and the commemorating women; God has prepared for them a forgiveness and a great recompense.] [33:35] In fact, ALL of chapter 33 of the Quran is "MUHKAM", because it talks about certain social laws and ettiquete. (You will notice this if you even bother to read it, that is). Are these verses "mystical" and secretive also? All the verses which talk about fighting the hypocrites and idol worshippers are MUHKAM verses: æíÞæá ÇáÐíä ÁÇãäæÇ áæáÇ äÒáÊ ÓæÑÉ ÝÅÐÇ ÃäÒáÊ ÓæÑÉ ãÍßãÉ æÐßÑ ÝíåÇ ÇáÞÊÇá ÑÃíÊ ÇáÐíä Ýí ÞáæÈåã ãÑÖ íäÙÑæä Åáíß äÙÑ ÇáãÛÔí Úáíå ãä ÇáãæÊ ÝÃæáì áåã [And those who believe say: "If only a chapter is sent down!" But when a governing (muhkam) chapter is sent down, and fighting is mentioned in it, you see those who have a disease in their hearts look at you, as if death had already come to them. It thus revealed them.] God has chosen to make these law-giving verses, which are crucial for our salvation, and which He calls "UMMULKITAB", (essense of the scripture) , literal and clear, so that people will not have any excuses on Judgment Day. God does not deceive people (contrary to what you believe of course). As for the "Mutashabih" (allegorical) verses, they are easily distinguished by their style. The following are a few examples: æÇáãáß Úáì ÃÑÌÇÆåÇ æíÍãá ÚÑÔ ÑÈß ÝæÞåã íæãÆÐ ËãäíÉ [And the '"mala'ika" will be on its borders, and the throne of your Lord will be carried above them by eight.] [69:17] ÇáÑÍãä Úáì ÇáÚÑÔ ÇÓÊæì [The Almighty, on the throne He settled.] [20:05] æÇáäÌã æÇáÔÌÑ íÓÌÏÇä [And the stars and the trees prostrate.] [55:6] Obviously, the above verses are METAPHORICAL. If you interprete them litterally, you will reach illogical conclusions. How does God "settle" on His throne? Does God have a physical body?? (As the ignorant Wahabies claim?). Or is the throne simply a symbol of God's "Mulk" (control over His creation)? Do the stars and the trees physically "prostrate" themselves to God?? Or is the verse simply a metaphor of all creation's submission, willingly or not, to the Creator? All the verses which talk about "Jannah" (heaven), "Jahannam" (hell), Adam and the Tree, the so-called "Miracles" of the prophets, are ALLEGORICAL verses meant to be understood as metaphors. As you can see, distinguishing which verses are allegorical and which are literal can be deduced from thorough reading, (tadabbor) and reflection, as God orders us to do: ÃÝáÇ íÊÏÈÑæä ÇáÞÑÁÇä Ãã Úáì ÞáæÈ ÃÞÝÇáåÇ [Do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? Or are there locks on their hearts?] [47:24] ÃÝáÇ íÊÏÈÑæä ÇáÞÑÁÇä æáæ ßÇä ãä ÚäÏ ÛíÑ Çááå áæÌÏæÇ Ýíå ÇÎÊáÝÇ ßËíÑÇ Do they not reflect on the Qur'an? If it was from any other than God they would have found in it many contradictions. [4:82] But do the muslims today actually obey God? You find them making competitions among themselves who can finish reading the Quran the most times, who can read it more eloquently, or hang golden-framed verses on the walls of their homes, or move their heads from side to side like hypnotized sheep when they hear the reciter's rythmic chanting of its verses . But do they actually ponder over its meaning? Of course not!! Doing so is considered HARAM!! Instead, they rush blindly towards the man-nade hadiths, innovations of the 9th century, and products of the decayed tradition and diseased minds of the Ummayad and Abbasid sultans and their clergy, and desert the Quran, the true word of God. God tells us in dozens of verses that the Quran was revealed in a clear and eloquent Arabic, in the language of Muhamad and his people, and meant to reach straight through to the heart of the simple Arab commoner: ÅäÇ ÃäÒáäå ÞÑÁäÇ ÚÑÈíÇ áÚáßã ÊÚÞáæä [ We have sent it down an Arabic reading, perhaps you will comprehend. ] [12:2] äÒá Èå ÇáÑæÍ ÇáÃãíä Úáì ÞáÈß áÊßæä ãä ÇáãäÐÑíä ÈáÓÇä ÚÑÈí ãÈíä [it was sent down with the trusted Spirit. Upon your heart, so that you would be of the warners. In a clear Arabic tongue. ] [26:193-195] ÝÅäãÇ íÓÑäå ÈáÓÇäß áÚáåã íÊÐßÑæä [We have thus made it easy in your language, perhaps they may take heed.] [44:58] æáÞÏ íÓÑäÇ ÇáÞÑÁÇä ááÐßÑ Ýåá ãä ãÏßÑ [ And We made the Qur'an easy to remember; Do any of you wish to learn?] [54:17] But stubborn "SpIzo" insists that the Quran is mystical and full of secrets, and cannot be understood by anyone except an elect few (14 infallibles), without realizing that by claiming this, he is tying his salvation to these 14, and therefore becoming a slave, incapable of thinking on his own. And thus is the plight of 99.99% of Muslims: slaves who blindly follow their marja3s. When I said that we need to know classical Arabic in order to properly understand - and translate - the meaning of some words in the Quran, which might be strange to us, I was speaking from a historical point of view. Remember, that the Quran was revealed in 7th century Arabia. And the Arabic spoken during the 7th Century is not like the Arabic spoken today. Even Arabic letters which you can see in early manuscripts of the Quran, in museums, are nothing like what we see today in the modern Quranic texts. Arabic has evolved and changed a lot. Perhaps the following example of "liguistic evolution" will help get the idea through. Have you ever heard of the epic poem "Beowulf"?? In case you haven't, I will tell you that "Beowulf" is a literary masterpiece whose author is unkown. The poem is classified by English scholars to be the product of the 11th century, and often compared to Homer's "Odysee". The following is a passage from the poem. Hwæt! We Gardenain geardagum, þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon. Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum, monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah, egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad, weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah, oðþæt him æghwylc Do you understand anything from the above text?? Is the above text Chinese?? Actually it's nothing but Old English. This is how English was written back then. The following is a translation of the above passage, in modern English: LO, praise of the prowess of people-kings of spear-armed Danes, in days long sped, we have heard, and what honor the athelings won! Oft Scyld the Scefing from squadroned foes, from many a tribe, the mead-bench tore, awing the earls. Since erst he lay friendless, a foundling, fate repaid him: for he waxed under welkin, in wealth he throve, till before him the folk, both far and near, who house by the whale-path, heard his mandate, gave him gifts: a good king he! Now, imagine, for the sake of argument, that you lived in England, during the 11th Century, and a prophet came to you with a message from God, in your own language, and the message was recorded in texts on parchments or animal skins. Now imagine, centuries later, people in England came across an old scroll, and found this divine message written on it. Would they understand it easily? Of course they would'nt. Does this automatically mean that the text is "mystical" and full of secrets? Or does it simply mean that we need linguistics and people who study Old English to understand it? Think of the Quran in the same light. Listen to how God describes the creation of a fetus: ÝáíäÙÑ ÇáÅäÓä ãã ÎáÞ ÎáÞ ãä ãÇÁ ÏÇÝÞ íÎÑÌ ãä Èíä ÇáÕáÈ æÇáÊÑÇÆÈ [so let man see from what he was created. He was created from water that spurts forth. It comes out from between the spine and the ribs.] [86:5-7] Note the word highlighted in red : ÊÑáÆÈ Note how the pre-Islamic (Jahiliyya) poet, Umru'r al-Qays, while describing his lady sweet-heart, used the exact same word in a line of his poem: ãåÝåÝÉ ÈíÖÇÁ ÛíÑ ãÕÇÛÉ ÊÑÇÆÈåÇ ãÕÞæáÉ ßÇáÓÌäÌá This is just one example to show you that the language of the Quran is the language of 7th Century Arabia, and was understood by the Arabs of that time, and used in their every day speech and poetry. There is nothing "mystical" or "secretive" about it. Despite being their everyday language, they still could not produce anything like the Quran...And there is where the challenge truly lies.. Say whatever you wish. I do not follow any human idol. I follow GOD ALONE, and His instructions straight from His book, without need for a mediator. Refer to the link I posted earlier, and you will understand how. I will say no more on this subject. Let's just agree to disagree...
  3. There it is: Undisputable proof that the Muslims do not worship God, but worship men (their muhadditheen) instead. Even if they read a hadith which blatantly calls for the worship of Satan, they will still claim it's true based on the "isnad" only. They don't care what the hadith itself says ( Why bother to read and analyse? Why bother to use our brains at all??) As long as it is in Bukhary, then it is true (Follow our muhadditheen and clergy like hypnotized sheep). The Quran says: æíÓÁáæäß Úä ÇáãÍíÖ Þá åæ ÃÐì ÝÇÚÊÒáæÇ ÇáäÓÇÁ Ýí ÇáãÍíÖ æáÇ ÊÞÑÈæåä ÍÊì íØåÑä ÝÅÐÇ ÊØåÑä ÝÃÊæåä ãä ÍíË ÃãÑßã Çááå Åä Çááå íÍÈ ÇáÊæÈíä æíÍÈ ÇáãÊØåÑíä {And they ask you ( O, messenger) about menstruation; Say: "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.} [2:222] Bukhary Says: I heard Mr. X, saying to Mr. Y, that he heard the wife of Mr. C, telling the cousin of Mr.D, that he heard the wife of the prophet say: "The Prophet used to have sex with her while she was menstruating". Do we believe God, or do we believe the "infallible isnad chain" of Bukhary? Of course, they will not hesitate to follow Bukhary and ignore the Quran, because the Quran is too difficult to understand!! You see, verse 2:222 is very difficult and full of mystisim and hidden meanings... I applaude your logic and reason, Yushaa... Inshallah, the Prophet will disown you and your kind on Judgement Day.
  4. Tell me, where in the Quran, does it exclusively say that the "ones who are firmly rooted in knowledge" are 14 infallible descendants of the Prophet, mentioned by name? Furthermore, do you even know what these allegorical verses are?? In the Quran, they are called "Mutashabih verses", and they constitute no more than 10% of the whole Quran. These verses are metaphoric and not be interpreted literally. It pains me to say it, but this, I'm afraid, is a testament of your ignorance and your shirk (idol worship). I am relying on the Quran itself, to prove that, and not on hearsay and word of mouth. Let me remind you of what God's book, which you have completely deserted, says about the protection of the Quran, and more importantly, who was responsible for protecting it. ??? ???????????b] [b]Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it. [15:9] As you can see, it is GOD Himself who revealed it to us through His Prophet, and it is GOD Himself who preserved it, and not your alledged 12th Imam. But since you are an idol-worshiper, you cannot accept this. Even GOD Himself is "zero-on-the-left", according to you. I am following God's book. You are following the Hadiths (hearsay created by men) The formula is plain and simple. I never said that those who don't know classical Arabic are not Muslims. "Islam" is not for Arabs only. It is for all of mankind. But since the Quran was revealed in Arabic, it is our job to translate it into the other languages. However, the person who is attempting to translate it, must be knowledgeable in the classical Arabic language (i.e: the language that was spoken during 7th century Arabia, by Muhamad and his people), or he/she will not be able to translate it correctly. The arabic being spoken today is not the same as the one that was spoken during that time. If we were to resurrect an Arab poet, who lived during the age of Muhamad, and bring him before us now, I will bet my life that he can understand the Quran better than a thousand mullahs of our time. There is nothing "mysterious" about the Arabic language. This desease of attributing mysticism and secretiveness to a language exists only in your mind. The mullahs of past and present have used this deception to control the masses. Arabic is not the only language in the world where one word can have more than one meaning. The meaning of a word can often be deduced from the context of the sentence where it appears. If you would take some time to read the following link, you will understand why God revealed His final message in Arabic, and what was special about Arabic during Muhamad's time. The information you will find in the thread has been validated by archeological evidence. You will find, contrary to the beliefs you hold so dear to your heart, that there is nothing "mysterious" about the Arabic language, and that it was simply an informal language used by the everyday commoner. And that any difficulty our generation might have understanding some words of the Quran is not because of "mysticim" but because of the fact that the Arabic language we speak to today is nothing like what was spoken back then. http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=234923105 As for the lengthy post you made; does this prove that the method of prayer described by the narrator of the Hadith was the same method performed by the Prophet Muhamad? Does it prove that it is the ONLY correct and acceptible method of prayer? Do you have an Arabic text of this hadith??
  5. The so-called "Islamic" months have nothing to do with Islam whatsoever. They were known since pre-Islamic Arabia. Moreso, the Arabs gave these months names to fit with natural phenomena observed in the wilderness. Also, the months were luni-solar, and coincided with the seasons. (Not like they are today). For example: - 'Rabee-al-Awwal/Thani' = first spring/second spring - 'Safar' "ÕÝÑ" = month named so due to the "yellowness color" of nature at that time of the year - 'Sha'aban' "ÔÚÈÇä" = word derived from "ÔÚÈ" and " ÊÔÚÈ" which means to "split up". It was called so because the nomads used to split up into groups to look for water in the desert. (Sha'ban was a summer month). - 'Ramadan' "ÑãÖÇä" = word derived from "ÑãÖ" and "ÑãÖÇÁ" which means "scorching heat" (late summer month) . There is nothing "holy" about the name. It just so happens that the Quran was revealed on that month. All these meanings can be found in the Arabic lexicons. The months of Hajj ( Shawwal, Dhulqida and Dhulhijja) , which were known before the time of Muhamad, were also occasions for festivals and trading, where merchants would come and sell the goods which they had aquired throughout the year. They took place during the cooler months, at the end of each year. Later on, and because of the ignorance of the Ummayad scholars, they removed the intercalary month completely, and made the months purely lunar (as they are today). As a result, the names of the months no longer had any meanings, because they did not conform to the seasons. Peace...
  6. Yes, I understand. And how do you know the actions of the Prophet - APART FROM VERBAL TRADITIONS?- Do you have archived records or videotapes dating back to 7th Century Arabia showing you what his actions were? Or are you merely relying on conjecture and word-of-mouth hearsay to determine what he did? How do you know, for certain, the actions of the Prophet who lived 1,500 years ago? Answer: Look in the Quran I am sorry, but I do not believe we need 14 perfect and infallible beings (who are no longer with us), to explain God's words. Every human being was given a brain, and can read the Quran on his own and grasp from it according to his/her capacity. The more you read, the more you will understand that the Quran explains itself. The words of God were meant to reach your heart DIRECTLY, and without the need of a mediator. All it takes is knowledge of classical Arabic and common sense.
  7. The Sunni who is asking you to provide hadiths showing the details of the ritual salat obviously has zero knowledge about what is in his/her hadith books. I once posted a thread defying all of you (Sunnis + Shias) to show me where, in the hadith books, are the following details found: - How many "raka'at" for each "Salat" - What duas to say in each "raka'a" - Where to place the hands. - How to bow and prostrate -etc.. And I am still awaiting your answer. When the sectarians engage in their futile debates with us, and find themselves cornered, they will always resort to this question. It is like their final card - their ace- which they like to play: "You claim that we should follow the Quran alone?? Where are the details of 'salat' in the Quran??" Perhaps they should ask themselves: "Where are the details of 'salat' in the hadith books?" To Isa Abdullah , starter of this thread, I say: Go now to any Islamic library, gather all the yellowed and dusty tomes of Sunni hadith books off the shelves, place them on a table, and flip through each and every one of them. After you do that, tell me if you can find all the intricate details of the 'salat' ritual which the Sunnis so vehemently claim are to be found within. Go and open a copy of Saheeh Bukhary, flip through its pages until you reach the section under teh title of 'bab al-Salat', and try to see if you can learn all the details from there. Once you fail in finding any relevent detail in all those yellowed books - the products of deseased minds from the 9th century- you will then understand that the details of Salat come directly from the "marja3s", and NOT from the alledged "Sunna of Muhamad". Then you will understand why each "mazhab" has their own way for this ritual. If the details of the 'salat' were truly tought to us by the Prophet Muhamad, as you claim, then why are there dozens of "mazhabs", each advocating their method to be the correct one, and rushing to accuse others' method of salat as unecceptable??? Contemplate these questions....
  8. Can you please quote the chapter and verse? Thank you.
  9. Your argument makes no sense. "Muhamad" is a PROPER noun. You cannot translate a proper noun, even if it might have a meaning. For example: The female proper noun "Dawn" literally means "early morning". If I am translating an English text into Arabic, I will certainly not translate the name "Dawn" into the Arabic "ÝÌÑ" , because "Dawn" is a proper name". Now answer this question: Is the word "imam" which appears in the Quran a proper noun also , that you may kep it as it is without translating it?? "Imam" is a common noun, which, according to the context of the verse, simply means "leader". By keeping a common noun untranslated , you are thereby giving it an ambiguous ,mystical meaning. I was not attacking your scholars (eventhough I do not recognize any scholar). My comment was directed to the poster who claimed Solomon was not a prophet.
  10. And who told you that Sulayman was not a prophet?? If Sulayman was not a prophet, then why is he mentioned in the Chapter number 21 of the Quran, whose title is "THE PROPHETS" ?? All prophets are, by default, Imams. The word "Imam" means "leader/guide". Therefore, all prophets are "Imams" because they lead by example. Furthermore, why is it that you always keep the word "Imam" untranslated when you quote Quranic verses in English?? Is it because you wish to surround the word with an aura of mysticism in order to prove your theory of "Imamat"?? Whoever claimed that Solomon was not a prophet obviously has ZERO knowledge of the Quran, because he has sold his brains to his "sheikh" , and does not make any effort to read and understand the Quran (because , according to him , God has deceived us and sent down to us a book of cryptic mystery and secrets, that no human on earth can understand). Whoever claimed that Solomon was not a prophet should remove his sectarian glasses, and read the following verse: { We have inspired you (O, Muhamad) as We have inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And We inspired Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and Jesus, and Job, and Jonah, and Aaron, and Solomon; and We have given David the Psalms.} [4:163] Keep following hadiths, and ignoring the Quran. Peace...
  11. Subhanallah!! Now you are saying that we must read the Quran in context and not take each verse by itself???? How about if I showed you no less than 50 seperate and enumerated examples of how the Shias and Sunnis take verses out of their contexts to prove their points?? As I can see, you need a lesson in Arabic, because 1) The verb "ÊÙåÑæä" does NOT mean "at noon time" The prophet is telling the faithful to offer praises to Allah when THEY (THE FAITHFUL) "tazhharoon". If you want to know what the word means, take a look at the following verses (since you are so fond of pointing out to me that the Quran should be taken as a whole book and not as seperate verses) and tell me what it means: I will leave the word untranslated, as it is, so you can decide yourself: {And a declaration from God and His messenger to the people, on this, the peak day of the Pilgrimage: "That God and His messenger are innocent from all those who set up partners." If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape God. And give news to those who have rejected of a painful retribution. Except for those with whom you had a treaty from among those who have set up partners if they did not reduce(violate) your rights (from the treaty) nor did they "YAZHUROON" upon you ; you shall continue the treaty with them until its expiry. God loves the righteous} [9:3,4] {How is it that when they "YAZHUROON" upon you they disregard all ties, either those of kinship or of pledge. They seek to please you with their words, but their hearts deny, and most of them are wicked} [9:8] {If they "YAZHUROON" upon you (O people of the cave) they will stone you or return you to their creed. Then you will never be successful.} [18:20] {But then here you are killing each other and driving out a group of you from their homes; you "TAZHUROON" upon them with evil and animosity. And if they come to you as prisoners, you ransom them while it was forbidden for you to drive them out! Do you believe in some of the Scripture and disbelieve in some? The punishment for those amongst you who do so is humiliation in this worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be returned to the most severe retribution. God is not unaware of what you all do} [2:85] {God did not make any man with two hearts in his body. Nor did He make your wives whom you "TAZHUROON" from them to be as your mothers. Nor did He make your adopted children to be your sons. Such is what you claim with your mouths, but God speaks the truth, and He guides to the path.} [33:4] Does the word "TAZHUROON" / "YAZHUROON" in teh above verses mean noontime??? 2) The word "Salat" (whether single, or plural) does NOT mean "prayer". It means CONTACT or LINK. When God tells us to observe the "Salat", He is telling us to program our soul (NAFS) to be in contact with Him all the time. The correct translation of "prayer" is DUA. DUA is one aspect or form of Salat, but not the only one. I have already discussed this a milion times. When God tells us that He "Yusalli a'la Muhamad", it means that God is always in contact with His prophet, and supports him. It does not mean that God "prays" for His prophet. Just for your info, the word "MAGHREB" "ãÛÑÈ" is NOT a time of the day. "MAGHREB" is DIRECTION, and not a time. Hence the phrase "Salat al-maghreb" is gibberish. The correct term for sunset , in classical Arabic (the language of Muhamad and his people , and the language of the Quran) is GHOUROOB. Hence, the correct term is "Salat al-ghouroob". In classical Arabic, if you say "MAGHRIB AL-SHAMS" "ãÛÑÈ ÇáÔãÓ" , it means "direction of the sunset", or, in short, THE WEST. It is a direction, and not a time. This is why there is an Arab country called "MAGHREB" (Morocco), because it lies in the far west (diretion). This is why God says, in his Book: æááå ÇáãÔÑÞ æÇáãÛÑÈ ÝÃíäãÇ ÊæáæÇ ÝËã æÌå Çááå Åä Çááå æÓÚ Úáíã {And to God belongs the east (MASHREQ) and the west (MAGHREB) so wherever you turn, (Whatever direction) there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable} [2:115] And this is why Abraham, when he was having a debate with a rejecter (kafir), defied him to make teh sun rise from the "MAGHREB" (WEST). Ãáã ÊÑ Åáì ÇáÐí ÍÇÌ ÅÈÑåã Ýí ÑÈå Ãä ÁÇÊíå Çááå Çáãáß ÅÐ ÞÇá ÅÈÑåã ÑÈí ÇáÐí íÍí æíãíÊ ÞÇá ÃäÇ ÃÍí æÃãíÊ ÞÇá ÅÈÑåã ÝÅä Çááå íÃÊí ÈÇáÔãÓ ãä ÇáãÔÑÞ ÝÃÊ ÈåÇ ãä ÇáãÛÑÈ ÝÈåÊ ÇáÐí ßÝÑ æÇááå áÇ íåÏí ÇáÞæã ÇáÙáãíä {Did the news come to you (O MUhamad) of the person who debated with Abraham regarding his Lord, while God had given him a kingship? Abraham said: "My Lord is the One who gives life and death," he said: "I bring life and death." Abraham said: "God brings the sun from the east, so you bring it from the west (let's see you do that!) " The one who disbelieved was confounded! And God does not guide the wicked people.} [2:258] So, as you can see, the phrase "Salat al-maghreb" is linguistically, wrong, and if the Arab prophet was alive today and heard you speak it, he would laugh at you. Would you like to know what time of sunset is called in the Quran?? You will be surprised... Let us look at the verses: ÞÇá ÑÈ ÇÌÚá áí ÁÇíÉ ÞÇá ÁÇíÊß ÃáÇ Êßáã ÇáäÇÓ ËáËÉ ÃíÇã ÅáÇ ÑãÒÇ æÇÐßÑ ÑÈß ßËíÑÇ æÓÈÍ ÈÇáÚÔí æÇáÅÈßÑ He said: 'My Lord, make for me a sign.' He said: 'Your sign is not to speak to the people for three days except by symbol, and remember your Lord greatly, and glorify at dusk and dawn. [3:41] ÅäÇ ÓÎÑäÇ ÇáÌÈÇá ãÚå íÓÈÍä ÈÇáÚÔí æÇáÅÔÑÇÞ We committed the mountains to glorify with him, during dusk and dawn. [38:18] ÝÇÕÈÑ Åä æÚÏ Çááå ÍÞ æÇÓÊÛÝÑ áÐäÈß æÓÈÍ ÈÍãÏ ÑÈß ÈÇáÚÔí æÇáÅÈßÑ So be patient, for the promise of God is true, and seek forgiveness for your sin, and glorify and praise your Lord at dusk and early morning. [40:55] ÝÇÕÈÑ Úáì ãÇ íÞæáæä æÓÈÍ ÈÍãÏ ÑÈß ÞÈá ØáæÚ ÇáÔãÓ æÞÈá ÇáÛÑæÈ {So be patient with what they are saying, and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting} [50:39] Ýí ÈíæÊ ÃÐä Çááå Ãä ÊÑÝÚ æíÐßÑ ÝíåÇ ÇÓãå íÓÈÍ áå ÝíåÇ ÈÇáÛÏæ æÇáÁÇÕÇá {In sanctuaries that God has allowed to be raised and His name mentioned in them. He is glorified therein early morning day and evening} [24:36] What do you notice from all these verses I have shown above??? You will notice that God is stressing the importance of two times: The two ends (tarafs) of the day (nahar). You will find over a dozen verses which have the same meaning: Sunrise (first taraf), and Sunset (second taraf). God is repeating the same idea of these two important times, over and over and over, in a dozen verses, using different expressions or words which all hold the same meaning. DAWN and SUNSET. Note the parts I have outlined in red, and you open your eyes, and perhaps you will see the truth. -First "taraf of the day" : before sunrise = early morning/dawn = first time to conduct the ritualistic salat. -Second "taraf of the day" : before sunset = early evening = ISHA'A. = second time to condut ritualistic salat. As you can see, the word "ÚÔí" or "ÚÔÇÁ" actually means "ghourob time". Which means sunset!!!. Now this makes perfect sense, because if you look up the meaning of the word "ÚÔÇÁ" in the classical Arabic lexicons, you will see that it is derived from the root verb "ÚÔì", which means "dimming" or "to dim". Hence, the time of "ISHA'", is that time of the day when the light becomes dim. And when someone has poor vision, he is called "al-A'asha" (ÇáÃÚÔì) in classical Arabic. The other end of the "nahar" must be ASR?? Tell me, what time do you usually do your alledged "ASR" prayer?? Isn't it usually done a few hours after noontime? ( 2-3 o'clock in the afternoon, isn't that so?). So according to your twisted logic, 2-3 p.m is an end (taraf) of the day (nahar)?? Your interpretation defies logic, defies language, defies the Quran and defies the norms set in all societies. Yet you are willing to hold on to it, in order to validate Bukhary and Co. 2-3 o'clock p.m is still BRIGHT DAYLIGHT, so it CANNOT be the end "taraf" of the nahar that God is mentioning in His Book. Your blindness and incapability of undesratnding Arabic has reached unimaginable limits. WRONG. God is saying that the "GHOUROOB" (or, more correctly "ISHA") salat is to be done just before sunset, and not "a little after" sunset, as you said. ÝÇÕÈÑ Úáì ãÇ íÞæáæä æÓÈÍ ÈÍãÏ ÑÈß ÞÈá ØáæÚ ÇáÔãÓ æÞÈá ÇáÛÑæÈ So be patient to with what they are saying, and glorify the grace of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting [50:39] As for the third time for salat (contact, ritual, etc..) it is done during the first hours of the NIGHT Night = "LAYL" = darkness.. This comes a few hours after the sun has already set (ghouroub) This comes when there is total darkness. Furthermore, it is called "Salat al-Layl", and NOT "salat al-Isha", as I have already shown you. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Conclusion: There are THREE times for ritual salat/contemplation mentioned in the Quran. If you want to perform it 5 times each day, then by all means go ahead and do so. Or 50 times each day if you want. But do not ever say: "the Quran says so". Peace...
  12. I believe I can help you here, my friend :) Of course, the Quran does not contradict itself. And of course it doesn't abrogate itself either - contrary to what most people think. (though it does abbrogate EARLIER scriptures). The verses that talk about intoxicants (like alcohol) are COMPLEMENTARY to each other. They do not abbrogate each other. I know I will probably get flamed, sworn at, insulted , accused of interpreting the Quran according to my whims, labeled as being a devil-worshipper, etc..etc... So, I will not trouble myself by writing anything. I will simply cut and paste a response made to a thread on another forum, by a fellow member who was discussing some aspects of faith: If you want the link to the WHOLE thread, PM me, and I will provide it for you. Peace..
  13. I know that Noah came before Abraham (chronologically speaking), but the thing is that Noah's understanding of the "hanifia" was too primitive. This is why the names of "al-haneef" and "father of muslims" were given to Abraham. This is why God told Muhamad to follow the creed of Abraham (eventhough Noah did come before). The law that all things in the universe evolve towards their destruction /end except GOD was first understood by Abraham, and that is Quranic fact. Sorry to say this, but there were NO human prophets before Noah. Noah was the very first. And before you rush to attack me again, I do not believe that Adam was a single human being. Peace...
  14. Do you need a scholar to understand this verse??? As another member said, and as I will say for the 1000th time, you CANNOT understand the verses of the Quran seperately, by taking them out of their context. Yo uhave to read the verses immediately before and after the verse in question in order to get a better understanding of what is being said. in the verse 6:75, we notice that the word THUS " ßÐáß" appears. This word connects 6:75 with the verses directly after it. (STICK TO THE CONTEXT) How was Abraham shown the kingdom of the heavens and the Earth??? Read the verses directly after it, and you will understand.. 6:76 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said: "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said: "I do not like those that disappear." 6:77 So when he saw the moon rising, he said: "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said: "If my Lord will not guide me, then I will be amongst the wicked people!" 6:78 So when he saw the sun rising, he said: "This is my Lord, this is bigger." But when it disappeared he said: "My people, I am innocent of the partners which you have set up." 6:79 "I shall turn my face to the One who initiated the heavens and the Earth, in monotheism, and I am not of those who set up partners." 6:80 And his people debated with him. He said: "Do you debate with me regarding God, when He has guided me? I do not fear that which you have set up except if my Lord wishes it so; my Lord encompasses all things with knowledge; will you not remember?" 6:81 "And how can I possibly fear what you have set up; yet you do not fear that you have set up partners with God, for which He has not sent down to you any authority! So which of our two groups is more worthy of security if you know?" 6:82 Those who believe and do not dress their belief with wrongdoing; they will have security, and they are guided. 6:83 And such was Our argument that We gave Abraham over his people; We raise the degree of whom We please. Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable. Note the part in red text, in 6:83, and you will understand what the word "THUS", in 6:75, means. The story is a parable, expressed in magnificent words, which shows us why the Patriarch Abraham was truly the father of the submitters (muslims). Abraham was the first human on the face of the Earth to understand the meaning of "hanifia" It is the law that everything in the universes changes and evolves towards its end, except GOD, who is the only eternal one. It all happened in a single night/sunrise, as he was observing heavenly various heavenly bodies.
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