Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله


Veteran Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Days Won


Posts posted by forte

  1. Tom fox was a Quaker - a member of the Christian Peacemaker Teams - not a right-wing evangelist. But, I do agree with your assessment of the perception of why he was there. However, there are many documented accounts of the work he did in the ME to ease the suffering of the people.

    As to why he was there, he was questioning that himself and blogged it a day before he was abducted:


    2 December 2005

    IRAQ: Most recent reflection by Tom Fox, "Why are we here?"

    [Note: The following reflection was written by Tom Fox the day before he was


    The Christian Peacemaker Team (CPT) Iraq team went through a discernment

    process, seeking to identify aspects of our work here in Iraq that are

    compelling enough to continue the project and comparing them with the costs

    (financial, psychological, physical) that are also aspects of the project.

    It was a healthy exercise, but it led me to a somewhat larger question: Why

    are we here?

    If I understand the message of God, his response to that question is that we

    are to take part in the creation of the Peaceable Realm of God. Again, if I

    understand the message of God, how we take part in the creation of this

    realm is to love God with all our heart, our mind and our strength and to

    love our neighbors and enemies as we love God and ourselves. In its

    essential form, different aspects of love bring about the creation of the


    I have read that the word in the Greek Bible that is translated as "love" is

    the word "agape." Again, I have read that this word is best expressed as a

    profound respect for all human beings simply for the fact that they are all

    God's children. I would state that idea in a somewhat different way, as

    "never thinking or doing anything that would dehumanize one of my fellow

    human beings."

    As I survey the landscape here in Iraq, dehumanization seems to be the

    operative means of relating to each other. U.S. forces in their quest to

    hunt down and kill "terrorists" are, as a result of this dehumanizing word,

    not only killing "terrorists," but also killing innocent Iraqis: men, women

    and children in the various towns and villages.

    It seems as if the first step down the road to violence is taken when I

    dehumanize a person. That violence might stay within my thoughts or find its

    way into the outer world and become expressed verbally, psychologically,

    structurally or physically. As soon as I rob a fellow human being of his or

    her humanity by sticking a dehumanizing label on them, I begin the process

    that can have, as an end result, torture, injury and death.

    "Why are we here?" We are here to root out all aspects of dehumanization

    that exist within us. We are here to stand with those being dehumanized by

    oppressors and stand firm against that dehumanization. We are here to stop

    people, including ourselves, from dehumanizing any of God's children, no

    matter how much they dehumanize their own souls.

    Although their web page (CPT) avoids any reference to militant conversion to me they still carry the air of missionaries. Simply calling themselves in the manner they do brings conflict in the ME. IMO they may not be "traditional" missionaries but they still fall into that class. I believe just the use of the word Christian in their title smacks of religious coversion to a Muslim and raises a red flag. They would be much better served calling themselves something like Peacemakers without Borders or the like, avoiding the religious connotation alltogether.

    The group he represented is funded by Christians - hence the reference to Christian in their title. This was his belief and mandate: http://www.quakerinfo.org/quakerism/peacetestimony.html

  2. (bismillah)


    General Babic dies in his cell last week.


    Now, President Milosevic dies last night in cell.

    Cause of death unknown

    Both key witness to the Bosian-Muslim genocide.

    Both witnesses willing to testify that the West was fully aware of every single detail of action that was being carried out by the Serbian forces.

    I'm not willing to stop there.

    Although one shouldnt get in the habit of assuming, I'm willing to check the record loggs to see which countries help supply Serbia with the weapons...and bet that the West was among the chief weapons suppliers.

    Before the war and during the war.

    I'm just sad that the Bosnian people will not be able to receive the justice that they so urgently cry out for.

    Who left in the world still cries out for our brave Bosnian brothers and delicate Bosnian sisters?

    From Allah(swt) we all depart and unto Him we all return!

    Allahu Akbar!

    He was suffering from heart problems - at least that is what has been reported. But I also think that his death is suspicious - and that he had information that many would not have wanted released.

    But he is gone from this world and will have to now face the next.

  3. There is censorship in Iran. What's not to understand? Why do people act so confused and shocked every time a newspaper is shut down in Iran, or a film is banned? The only ones who seem to get riled up about this sort of thing are westerners - even the most die hard reformists are used to stuff like this happening.

    As in acceptance and submission to the hieracrchical structure? Cowering to the top dog? Defeat? :(

  4. (bismillah)

    I think alot of what I have said (and others have said) on these forums has been misinterpreted by some Christians who post on this site. I think that there are basically three groups of Christians who come on to this forum

    Group 1: People who just like to screw around with big text and fonts and are maybe just bored and need something to do.

    Group 2: Paid (or unpaid) agents of some outside group that come on this site to spread propaganda and confuse/dilute thread that are making progress and gaining popularity by getting lots of views.They understand that , because this in an English forum, many Christians are looking also and they may stop 'Drinking the Cool-Aid' as my br. Ali Zaki says.

    Group 3: Sincere Christians who believe in God and are trying to increase their knowledge and understading of Islam through engaging in dialogue and discussion

    To Group 1: Close your browser window and go back to your game of Halo or watching Google video, or something else. Stop filling the posts with irrelevant nonsense.

    To Group 2: Be cafeful. There are many intelligent br. and sis. on this forum who will eventually find you out and expose you to the other people here.

    To Group 3: Keep coming on and posting. This is the reason why I ( and others) keep posting on this forum. We can have a dialogue but we need to keep an open mind and ignore the first two groups. I am willing to look at any evidence you present with an open mind and give you my honest feedback based on my knowledge and experience. The more you examine the true religion of Islam, not the violent soap opera that is portrayed in the Western media, the more you will find the true teachings of the Prophet Jesus (as)

    We need to understand who these groups are in order to have a real dialogue

    Any comments ?


    And for balance and fairness, how would you group the Muslims that come to this site - again as to their specific agendas?


    Interesting thread Br. Abu Hadi,

    Despite my having to limit my time severly on S.C. for the next couple weeks (unfortunately) because of work requirements, I had to take a moment and comment on this thread because I was intrigued by the title.

    So how can we take the dialogue to the next level. I (as you may have guessed) have a few idea's. Here are a few, and I welcome all comments.

    1.) Christianity 101

    One of the most common criticisms that Muslims get from Christians on this forum is not taking the time to learn about what Christians believe before making comments about Christianity. There is a solution to this.

    I know it's been tried before, but since we have a basic "definitions document" for Christians to refer to (before making comments about what Muslims believe), why don't we have a similar document for Muslims to refer to?

    2.) An "Interfaith S.C. dictonary". This is something we would all have to help create. Here is an example of an entry.

    God: (n.)- The Supreme Soverign of all creation. His qualities are defined as: Omnipotence, Omniscience, Omnipresence. etc.

    So it's just basically a (hopefully alphabetical) list of terms often used on S.C. and their correcsponding definitions. This would be particulary helpful for giving definitions for words that are theology specific and often used such as "kafir", "mushrik", "trinity", "crucifixion", etc.

    3.) Frequently Asked Question

    An "FAQ" section that has the most common questions Christians ask of Muslims, and vice versa and the corresponding answers.

    So these are a few ideas. I also listed them in order of importance. I definately think Christianity 101 is the most urgently needed document to make progress and move forward with our interfaith dialogue.


    Excellent idea. It would provide much needed structure and direction. This forum is too often dominated by those appearing to seek attention - not dialogue. There needs to be some balance and commonality of purpose to move forward.

  5. the article ends with:

    The Muslim Students Association, which was among the leading critics of the cartoon, said Teheri-azar had never been a member of the group and denounced him on its Web site.

    "Regardless of what his intentions prove to be, we wholeheartedly deplore this action, and trust that our fellow classmates will be able to dissociate the actions of this one disturbed individual from the beliefs of the Muslim community as a whole," the statement said. "Peace be upon you all."

  6. I am clearly aware of that fact, now let me ask you this.

    What is your attitude towards KUFR? What did Rasulullah (saw) command us?

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"


    I don’t wish to debate or enjoin in lengthy rambling rhetoric. It is clear that there will be no meeting of the minds here and the effort will not be constructive.

    As you have asked, this is my view, and last post:

    When the Muslim community was faced with challenges during the time of the Prophet and the Caliphate, defensive measures were needed. The wars in those cases were primarily because treaties were broken and the offending tribes needed to be dealt with as a matter of state and not religious preference.

    "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory - (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right - (for no cause) except that they say, 'Our Lord is Allah'..."

    (The Holy Quran, 22:39-40)

    The Qur'an permits fighting to defend the religion of Islam and the Muslims. This permission includes fighting in self-defense and for the protection of family and property. The early Muslims fought many battles against their enemies under the leadership of the Prophet Muhammad(S) or his representatives. For example, when the pagans of Quraysh brought armies against Prophet Muhammad(S), the Muslims fought to defend their faith and community. The Qur'an adds:

    "Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ...And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors."

    (The Holy Quran, 2:190, 193)

  7. I'll reiterate this once again,

    For the Individual I have no hatred

    For the False Doctrine that is another story.


    1. Tom is a Christian

    2. I hate Tom for the False Religion He believes in

    3. I have no problem with Tom the Engineer or Doctor etc

    I hope you understand.


    I believe that I understand - I just clearly disagree.

    However, I wish you could understand what I am saying.

    You are rationalizing hating 'Tom' because he is a Christian and believes in a false doctrine. You say you don't hate him for his professional position but for his false beliefs.

    I'm sure he carries these beliefs with him regardless of other areas of his life, so you will need to hate 'Tom' at all times.

    It is OK to disagree with 'Tom's' beliefs, but not to hate 'Tom' based on his beliefs.

    Islam is a religion of peace and understanding - these words of hate do little to promote this.

  8. Forte: Your presumption would hold true if I hated the Individual, but I hate and despise the False Doctrine they adhere to.


    :huh: Well, only you know your true agenda here and only you and yours will have to live with the consequences of it. I was responding to what appears to be a theme within your posts. You obviously put time and thought into your posts but it is hard to contemplate the content when you have to dig through the offensive sarcastic put downs of brothers of the book and what I (and perhaps others) perceived as open hatred - regardless of the rationale.

    Christians BELIE these Attributes of the Almighty. I hate them for their Kufr!

    I hate them with a passion because of that.

    Perhaps it is your unfortunate choice of words........

  9. I hate Kufr and those who repose to Kufr.

    Kufr is Najis.

    I don't hate the individual just the false doctrine they repose faith in. I will not be "sensitized" to the Kufr and Najasat of the Christians. I hate them with a passion because of that.

    Disagreement and hatred are two very different things. Hatred only hurts the person doing the hating and tangentially often those that are close to him (by his consequent mood and behaviours) - for example, a man's wife and children.

    Being "sensitized" to your negative feelings and the impact they have on you and those you love is something worth examining. I pray that all those who feel hate and anger let go of their "hot coal".

  10. (bismillah)

    FACT: Christians are short sighted people and are religiously blind and depraved of Spiritual Light.

    Also Maulana Muhammad Ali in His Tafsir writes:

    Christians BELIE these Attributes of the Almighty.  I hate them for their Kufr!



    You use the word 'hate' a lot in your posts. You must be very angry and maybe very sad :( - it would be best to let go of this corrosive feeling and replace it with love of mankind. I'll steer away from Islam, Christianity and Judaism with this quote - but all religions express a similar sentiment. This one may be helpful to you - Read and Think!!

    Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. Buddha

  11. Why are muslims invaded and attacked and insulted simply for the fact that they are Muslim?  It happens.  Everywhere.  Doesn't make it right.  But it happens.

    And as to the broad generalization comment- aha, you see the point I was making.  People come in here and make broad generalizations about muslims alllllll the time, to the point that I feel so insulted and I get really upset.  Yet as soon as something comes out of my mouth about a generalization, I am attacked about how generalizations are wrong.




    I apologize if I appeared to be attacking you - that was not my intention. I came to this forum to learn - but just in this thread alone I feel as though my questions are not welcome and that there is a lot of animosity towrds me - someone you don't know and don't wish to know. My questions have not been respected or validated so I am guessing my ideas will not be either.

    Again, I apologize for any part of your anger I am responsible for.


  12. Bro, does that really surprise you?  All these anti-muslim people have to see is a headline of muslims killing non-muslims and they draw their conclusions without understanding an iota of history or current events.



    I asked a question for understanding of a posters point. I made no judgement. Does that make me anti-Muslim?

  13. you know absolutly nothing about northern nigeria i see.

    Also when the last temptation of christ came out christians threated bombings of theaters and last time i checked it was christians who were blowing up abortion clinics in the southern states of USA also murking out abortion clinic doctors. Also they think timothy mcveigh and his crew may have belonged to some group called Gods army or something like that. So while I understand where you are coming from, ie a world via which is based on fox and cnn news I have to say your factual ideology is lacking.


    I will concede that I know little about northern Nigeria - but not "absolutly nothing".

    The rest has nothing to do with targeting Muslims.

    You have made an assumption that you know where I am coming from - and as assumptions usually go - it is incorrect.

    Isn't factual ideology an oxymoron?

  • Create New...