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In the Name of God بسم الله


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  1. Disagree
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from zeynab0 in Inquiry About Equality (Girls Should Be Able To Do Everything Guys Can)   
    These hijabi feminists are the most sinister" Aishas" [ yeah they are the muslim Karen's] I've ever seen 
  2. Don't Understand, Please Explain
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from Ahmad8888 in Muslim Slave Trade   
    And look at how Arabs in gulf have evolved slavery into this migrant labor movement, isn’t this slavery ?
    Objectively the most savage ? Have you heard of galley slaves 
    you know ottomans kept them just like Christian’s did 
    you cannot whitewash slavery of Arabs Turks and Persians just because 0.01% rose to high status 
    just like you cannot ignore discrimination  against blacks in Jim Crow America because a handful blacks became successful 
  3. Thanks
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from kadhim in Muslim Slave Trade   
    And look at how Arabs in gulf have evolved slavery into this migrant labor movement, isn’t this slavery ?
    Objectively the most savage ? Have you heard of galley slaves 
    you know ottomans kept them just like Christian’s did 
    you cannot whitewash slavery of Arabs Turks and Persians just because 0.01% rose to high status 
    just like you cannot ignore discrimination  against blacks in Jim Crow America because a handful blacks became successful 
  4. Thanks
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from Haji 2003 in Muslim Slave Trade   
    And look at how Arabs in gulf have evolved slavery into this migrant labor movement, isn’t this slavery ?
    Objectively the most savage ? Have you heard of galley slaves 
    you know ottomans kept them just like Christian’s did 
    you cannot whitewash slavery of Arabs Turks and Persians just because 0.01% rose to high status 
    just like you cannot ignore discrimination  against blacks in Jim Crow America because a handful blacks became successful 
  5. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to Abu_Zahra in The authenticity of shiqshiqiyah sermon   
    Actually this is the very definition of tawatur. 
  6. Thanks
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from AbdusSibtayn in Sahal ibne Saad   
    It’s possible, but it also be that this incident was confused with the much more famous one in which zayd b Arqam a much more well known sahabi /  supporter  of imam Ali and participant of siffin criticized ibn ziyad when he disrespected Hussain head in kufa 
    also Shia of Ali were having a hard time even in Iraq during the time I would be very surprised if any of them survived in Syria, however it’s quite possible that his status as a companion afforded him some immunity specially if he was not actively involved in the revolution against uthman 
    to me, he seems to be in the same status as buraida aslami another companion, who is very vocal at the time of ghadeer but then disappears from history, even though he is supposed to have survived till the time of Yazid 
    but what you’re saying also makes a lot of sense historical record that we have is far from perfect and there were lots of people whose contributions were probably overlooked or forgotten in history. Sahl is an ansar and they were traditionally all supporters of Ali, except for a handful of them, and those are mentioned by names in historical records like numan b bashir anc zayd b thabit etc 
    so its very likely Sahl b sa’d indeed was a true supporter just not a very well known one 
  7. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to In Gods Name in Shia scholars: Ghadir Khumm is indirect , not direct evidence of Ali as   
    I always felt Ghadir Khumm was a slam dunk and clear evidence. However, a number of very high ranking scholars claim this actually is not clear but more indirect evidence.
    The question we have to ask ourselves is this: Why did the Prophet saw not clearly say: "Allah has commanded me to choose Ali as the divinely appointed Imam after me. You must all follow him as your leader after me".
    Our own scholars have picked up on this.
    Sharif Murtada stated:
    وأما النص الخفي: فهو الذي ليس في صريحة لفظه النص بالامامة، وإنما ذلك في فحواه ومعناه، كخبر الغدير، وخبر تبوك
    As for hidden text: that is the one in which text there is NO CLEAR indication to Imamah, but only in content and meaning, LIKE REPORT OF GHADIR AND REPORT OF TABUK. [“Rasail” vol 1, page 339]
    Shia Scholar Muhaqiq al-Hilli, who was quoted by Ayatullah Ridha Ustadi in “Rasail al-Muhaqiq al-Hilli” p 399;400 :
    الوجه الثاني : على إمامته فيجب أن يكون إماما.
    أما النص عليه فقسمان جلي وخفي أما الجلي فما نقلته الشيعة خلفا عن سلف إلى النبي عليه السلام من نصه عليه بالامامة نصا لا يحتمل التأويل ….
    وأما الخفي فقوله عليه السلام : (من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه اللهم وال من والاه وعاد من عاداه وانصر من نصره واخذل من خذله وأدر الحق معه كيف ما دار.
    وقوله عليه السلام : أنت مني بمنزلة هارون من موسى.
    Second thing: Regarding his Imamah and that he has to be an Imam. What is regarding nass upon him, there are two types: clear and hidden. As for regarding clear one  – they are proofs been narrated by later shias from their pious ancestors, till messenger (alaihi salam), from his indications, that couldn’t be interpreted (in other way)……
    As for HIDDEN proofs that is saying of alaihi salam: “To whom ever I am mawla, Ali is his mawla. O Allah befriend with the one who will befriend with him, and be enemy with the one who is his enemy. And give a victory to the one who will support him, and humiliate to the one who will humiliate him, and make truth with him, where ever he will be”.
    And his saying – alayhi salam – “You are for me like Haroon to Moses”. [“Rasail al-Muhaqiq al-Hilli” p 399) 
  8. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to In Gods Name in Shia scholars: Ghadir Khumm is indirect , not direct evidence of Ali as   
    Furthermore, why did Imam Ali as when he was Caliph, not openly declare himself to be the divinely appointed Imam over the Ummah?
    Why did he not publicly make speeches when opposing Abu Bakr initially?
    Why did Imam Hussain as, when facing death himself, not clearly make speeches declaring himself, his older brother, and father as divinely appointed Imams?
    Nor did any of the other Imams declare themselves to be Imams in a public, and unambigious way.
    I believe in following the Quran and Ahlulbayt, and in the Imams of ale Muhammed, i ask to learn and gain Yaqeen.
  9. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from Shian e Ali in Shia Sunni unity.   
    So in your opinion a Sunni follower of 4 madhabs is as good a Muslim as a 12er usuli Shia ? Both are equally likely to go to heaven if their Amals are equal ? Requirement to believe in Imamate is not necessary?
    And what exactly is a “ fair Sunni  “ ?
    im well aware the discrimination was racial but in social terms the outcome is same I.e very little if any inter marriage or even social interactions 
  10. Thanks
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from Qa'im in Pandemonium: A Sourcebook on the Tragedy of Husayn   
    An appendix on tawwabun would be greatly appreciated…maybe in 2nd edition 
    congratulations outstanding achievement 
  11. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to sunnism in Imam Ali's ((عليه السلام)) daughter marriage to Umar : Hadith in Al-Kafi   
    Umar marriage to umm kulthum is authentic according to shi'i standards but it was a forceful marriage according to them. 
  12. Haha
  13. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to Eddie Mecca in Imam Ali's ((عليه السلام)) daughter marriage to Umar : Hadith in Al-Kafi   
    I think the relationship that Imam Ali (peace be upon him) had with the three caliphs might surprise and shock a lot of Sunnis and Shi'is alike...Sunnis present an extremely optimistic picture of Islamic events while Shi'is present an exceptionally gloomy pictorial history...the reality was somewhere in-between but closer to the Shi'i position in my estimation...the relationship was intricate and complicated...the more we demonize the three caliphs, the more we subsequently degrade Imam Ali's lofty character...if the three caliphs were indeed "Satanists", "demons", "tyrants", "dictators" etc....then Imam Ali was an assister and an aider to the "Satanists", "demons" etc...technically, the three were usurpers...but they were simultaneously sincere defenders of the faith...it's unfair to judge a person's entire life based on a single / solitary event (e.g. the withholding of Fadak)…there were companions who received 4.0 grade point average from the university...companions like Ammar, Salman, Abu Dharr etc....there were companions who received 0.0 or E or F from the university..."companions" like Abu Sufyan, Hind, Mu'awiayh etc....then there are those who fall somewhere in-between on the spectrum and receive 2.0 or letter grade C...I believe Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and many others fall into this third category    
  14. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi in Imam Ali's ((عليه السلام)) daughter marriage to Umar : Hadith in Al-Kafi   
    Narrations are Saheeh and marriage did take place but it was `forced` marriage as it has been narrated by Shaykh in Al-Kafi:
     عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ وَحَمَّادٍ عَنْ زُرَارَةَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللهِ ((عليه السلام)) فِي تَزْوِيجِ أُمِّ كُلْثُومٍ فَقَالَ إِنَّ ذَلِكَ فَرْجٌ غُصِبْنَاهُ.
    Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from Ibn Abi ‘Umayr from Hisham ibn Salim and Hammad from Zurarah who has said the following: “Abu ‘Abd Allah ((عليه السلام)), about the marriage of ‘Umm Kulthum has said, ‘It was a rape we suffered.”
    Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul (0/42)
    Then another Sahih hadith mentions that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) denied the proposal of `Umar` but then Umar made threats to Ahlebait therefore Abbas asked imam Ali (عليه السلام) to let him handle this matter hence Abbas was the one who married Umme Kulthum (apparently) to `Umar`
     مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللهِ ((عليه السلام)) قَالَ لَمَّا خَطَبَ إِلَيْهِ قَالَ لَهُ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِنَّهَا صَبِيَّةٌ قَالَ فَلَقِيَ الْعَبَّاسَ فَقَالَ لَهُ مَإ؛ لِي أَبِي بَأْسٌ قَالَ وَمَا ذَاكَ قَالَ خَطَبْتُ إِلَى ابْنِ أَخِيكَ فَرَدَّنِي أَمَا وَاللهِ لأعَوِّرَنَّ زَمْزَمَ وَلا أَدَعُ لَكُمْ مَكْرُمَةً إِلا هَدَمْتُهَا وَلأقِيمَنَّ عَلَيْهِ شَاهِدَيْنِ بِأَنَّهُ سَرَقَ وَلأقْطَعَنَّ يَمِينَهُ فَأَتَاهُ الْعَبَّاسُ فَأَخْبَرَهُ وَسَأَلَهُ أَنْ يَجْعَلَ الأمْرَ إِلَيْهِ فَجَعَلَهُ إِلَيْهِ
    Muhammad Ibn Abi ‘Umayr has narrated from Hisham ibn Salim who has said the following: “Abu ‘Abd Allah ((عليه السلام)), has said, ‘When he proposed marriage with ‘Umm Kulthum, ’Amir al-Mu’minin ((عليه السلام)), said, ‘She is yet just a child.’ He (the Imam) has said that he saw al-‘Abbas and asked, ‘What is wrong with me, is there something wrong with me?’ He al-‘Abbas asked, ‘What is the matter?’ He replied saying, ‘I proposed marriage before the son of your brother for his daughter but he rejected my proposal. I swear by Allah, I will shut down Zamzam, leave no honor for you without being destroyed; I will prove him guilty of theft through two witnesses and cut off his right hand.’ Al- ‘Abbas went to him (the Imam) and informed him of what he had said and asked him (the Imam) to authorize him to settle the matter and he (the Imam) agreed.’”
    Mir‘at al ‘Uqul Fi Sharh Akhbar Al al Rasul (20/42)
    Tell me, does it seem like Ahlebait (عليه السلام) had wonderful relations with `Umar`? Rather it shows their hatred towards Ahlebait & voilation of basic rights of Ahlebait by caliphs of Muslimeen.
    Then, i don't remember the book but i saw a narration that all of this had happened and people thought Imam Ali (عليه السلام) had married his daughter to Umar. But reality was Imam Ali (عليه السلام) had asked a female Jin to appear as Umme Kulthum and actually she was married off to Umar. and when Umar died, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) took that jin back home, let her go and Umme Kulthum (عليه السلام) appeared again. In all these events, she was hidden at home by Imam Ali (عليه السلام). I've forgot the name of book but this is actually a hadith of Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام).
  15. Completely Agree
    Panzerwaffe reacted to AbdusSibtayn in We Shias love 12,000 Sahaba, Ridhwanullah Alayhim   
    Not to forget 'Amr ibn Wathilah 'Abu Tufayl' (رضي الله عنه), the OG 'Rafidi' sahabi, who has been all but erased from history. He lived till Mukhtar (رضي الله عنه) 's time and participated in his uprising. 
    There are other companions like the Ibn Hunayf brothers (ra.a.), who were front-liners at both Jamal and Siffin I believe, Abdullah ibn Afif al-Azdi (رضي الله عنه), who disrupted ibn Ziyad (la)'s victory speech in the central mosque at Kufa after Karbala and challenged him (they murdered him afterwards in an ambush on his house), and Sulayman ibn Surad al- Khaza'i (رضي الله عنه) , a founder-member of the Tawwabun movement. 
    All forgotten names, even among us, the Shi'a. 
  16. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to AbdusSibtayn in Sahal ibne Saad   
    Wasn't he one among those who interrupted Yazid (la)at his court when he began to hit Hussain (عليه السلام) 's  lips with his stick? 
    I had heard a Sunni speaker (Engineer Mirza to be specific) say that he was counted among Ali (عليه السلام) 's Shi'a in Sham. 
    I haven't heard much about him either. Maybe he is another victim of our collective amnesia, and the details about his life and activities have been lost like so much of the rest of history. 
  17. Thanks
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from kadhim in Islamophobia In The West   
    Real Islamophobia or muslim oppression is in the Muslim world and maybe parts of India , burma etc
    in the west ( aka NATO Australia etc) you feel most free to practice your religion as a Muslim 
  18. Thanks
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from kadhim in Muslim Slave Trade   
    Sanctioned by Sharia?
    Slavery & Islam
    By Jonathan A C Brown
    Oneworld 430pp £30order from our bookshop
    A few years ago, Jonathan A C Brown was the subject of one of those Twitter storms that have become such a familiar feature of the modern media age. A lecture he gave on the topic of this book, suggesting that Islamic forms of slavery were considerably more benign than Western ones, went viral, helped on its way by several right-wing news outlets. To some, it provided evidence of the kind of cultural relativism that is supposed to pervade the modern academy. At a time when ISIS was committing atrocities against the Yazidis of Iraq, here, it was said, was a professor of Islamic studies at Georgetown University ‘defending slavery’.
    Slavery & Islam is Brown’s answer to his critics. It is, he says, a book for people who want to understand ‘how Muslims conceptualized, practiced and eventually abolished slavery’ through history and an exploration of the dilemmas faced by Muslims today, navigating between a religious tradition that is bound up in a veneration of the past and present-day understandings of profound moral failings in that very same past.
    Brown shows why it is not simply a piece of Orientalism to speak of ‘Islamic slavery’, though the phrase has frequently been used by Orientalists. The term covers a very profound variety of experiences. At first glance, it may even seem crude to suggest that there is any commonality of experience between, say, the Turkish slave soldiers of the Abbasid caliphs or the powerful eunuchs of the Ottoman sultans and the individuals transported in chains across the Sahara to be sold in Cairo’s slave markets. We can, however, legitimately speak of it because the Islamic tradition itself identities a specific category of slavery, known by the Arabic term riqq. It is embedded in the Koran, the Hadith and the writings of the main Islamic legal authorities, and shaped how people who identified as Muslim thought of and practised slavery, whether they were in Tangier, Delhi or Belgrade.
    It also seems plausible to argue that the framework provided by this tradition encouraged a less dreadful system of slavery than the one with which we associate that term in the West. Brown notes that, while there is nothing in the Islamic scriptures and the interpretations of them stating that slavery qua slavery is morally wrong, both the Koran and the Hadith are nonetheless replete with exhortations to the generous treatment of slaves and condemnations of those who mistreat them. A well-known hadith records Muhammad reproaching one of his companions for cursing a slave, reminding him, ‘Your slaves are your brothers, whom God has put under your control’, and detailing the range of responsibilities he owed his slaves. Obligations upon slave owners and ‘rights’ enjoyed by slaves were later codified in the vast corpus of sharia law; Brown shows how we can find them being enforced, as often as not in slaves’ favour, by Islamic judges from the 9th to the 19th centuries.
    Slavery & Islam also brings out what its author calls an ‘impulse toward emancipation’ embedded in the scriptures. The freeing of slaves is repeatedly identified as a ready means of extirpating sin (a grand kind of ‘Hail Mary’), though in times past this had the unfortunate side effect of ensuring that the demand for new slaves stayed high and the barbaric trans-Sahara slave trade was maintained. Nevertheless, by the standards of its time, the treatment of slaves under sharia law was advanced: more than a thousand years after it had taken shape, it could still bear favourable comparison with the system of plantation slavery in the American South.
    If the book had confined itself to these subjects, it would have done a valuable service. But this modest scholarly core serves as the launch pad for an extravagant and wearisome expedition into contemporary social criticism, the philosophy of knowledge and Foucauldian discourse analysis. The main purpose is to suggest that, since we in ‘the West’ do not agree on what slavery really is, we cannot be confident that we have in fact abolished it, rather than simply defined it in such a way as to suit the needs of the present capitalist order. As such, we should refrain from ever projecting Western conceptions of slavery onto foreign spaces and, especially, using them as the ‘building blocks of … discourses’ designed to ‘boost our own moral standing’.
    The chapters in which this argument is developed provide an exercise in the continuum fallacy, supported by an eclecticism of evidence that is, frankly, extraordinary. In a parody of the Socratic method, Brown sets about trying to knock down the efforts of the great thinkers in the Western philosophical tradition to define slavery. Against Aristotle, Plato and the Emperor Hadrian, he sets quotations from Fight Club and The Matrix, an episode of Sherlock and a report he saw on CNN. Against Burke and Sir William Blackstone, he invokes a comment some guy made on his Facebook page. He dismisses the most broadly accepted definition of slavery as the legal status of owning a human being as property, common to both Western practice and the sharia, by offering quite ludicrously trivial remarks on how divorce proceedings in US courts reveal that people in the West ‘own’ each other, sort of. By way of proof, he offers a reference to a comment made by Russell Crowe, playing a corrupt New York City mayor, in the 2013 blockbuster film Broken City: ‘I own you.’
    Brown tells us that his objective is to shatter the pretensions and lay bare the neuroses of the ‘global West’. But whatever one is to make of all this, it has little to do with the subject on which the author is really qualified to write – about which his readers may justifiably have expected to read. In one chapter of almost sixty pages, Islam appears on just five of them.
    Slavery & Islam hints at some of the great questions that are still outstanding in this field: for example, how far a philosophical system that, at least in theory, sanctions enslavement on the basis of faith can accept universalist conceptions, such as the equality of man, that have become central to Western secular rights traditions. This is, to be sure, fraught intellectual terrain, but others have managed to tread it, including Henri Lauzière in his writings on Salafism, and Noah Salomon and Wael Hallaq in their writings on Islamic statehood. Jonathan Brown was attacked by pundits; this was his chance to provide a scholar’s reply. Instead, he has given us three hundred pages of amateur epistemology and callow whataboutery. Will a real Islamic scholar please stand up?
    I watched his lecture on Sahaba over 15 yrs ago and knew this guy was a charlatan just promoted by his media savvy wife 
    a ideological prostitute who would jump on any bandwagon as long as it suited his agenda
    his approach is basically “ if I’m a self hating white westerner l can dazzle all these self doubting insecure brown Muslims and really propel my career ahead of much more serious nuanced scholars “
    only thing going for him is that he is very good looking 
  19. Completely Agree
    Panzerwaffe reacted to Muhammed Ali in Muslim Slave Trade   
    His manners are really bad. 
    I don't know anything about his views on slavery.
  20. Completely Agree
    Panzerwaffe reacted to King in Muslim Slave Trade   
    Jonathan Brown has got to be the most overrated Muslim Western scholar out there. In his essays he just rambles on all kinds of tangents, offering very little of substance. Unfortunately he comes off quite arrogant as well.  It's sad that the Muslim community lacks quality scholarship in the West. 
  21. Completely Agree
    Panzerwaffe reacted to Ali_Hussain in Muslim Slave Trade   
    Yeah sure, highlighting the Islamic recommendations on how slaves should be treated isn't a bad idea, but the kind of person who is debating this with you will be going off the principle that ownership of a human being is always bad, no matter how well they are treated.
    Also I'm pretty sure slavery didn't get phased out due to Islamic regulations, the Europeans put pressure on the Arabs to stop doing it.
  22. Thanks
    Panzerwaffe reacted to Ali_Hussain in Muslim Slave Trade   
    He has multiple lectures about slavery as well, I've watched a couple, they are on YouTube. I think that Daniel Haqiqatjou has also dealt with the issue.
    One thing that you should avoid is the hypocrisy of many of the liberal Muslims who think that Westerners today should be held accountable for the slave trade, but that we in the Muslims community for some reason should not. Even though being a slave in the Muslim world was often no joke.
  23. Completely Agree
    Panzerwaffe reacted to 83838 in Pandemonium: A Sourcebook on the Tragedy of Husayn   
    i'm curious... there is no abu mikhnaf on the list?
  24. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to kadhim in Islamophobia In The West   
    Islamophobia is virtually non-existent in reality in point of fact. Pure, unadulterated, irrational haters are few and far between and the label "Islamophobe" is largely an invention, a rhetorical sledgehammer to make people who disagree with us be silent, for fear of being perceived as "racist" or "politically incorrect."
    The correct way to characterize the situation is "disgust at Muslims." Disgust for the murderous inhumanity of the minority. Disgust at the constant whining, at the outrage and insistence on taking offense in the face of the most trivial actions by Westerners and the general silence in the face of brutalities committed by our own people.
    Disgust at the general lack of meaningful contribution of Muslims today to global civilization as a whole and to the particular societies in which they live. Disgust at Muslims' insistence on putting the blame for all their problems everywhere except within themselves.
    The solution? Muslims take responsibility for themselves and collectively advance themselves by a few centuries in worldview and join the modern world with a commitment to contributing to it. Anything short of that is playing games.
  25. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to Photi in Islamophobia In The West   
    I think people in the west are most afraid of Islam's lack of human rights awareness.  until that changes, there will always be Islamophobia.  
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