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In the Name of God بسم الله

Panzerwaffe

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  1. Completely Agree
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    oh brother but they are the "true shias" or "theological shias" thats what the 12er imami response is
    in reality ali had loyal and disloyal followers and from neutral ( i.e non imami sources) their sectarian orientation is unclear.We can determine from historical works who were loyal or disloyal to ali but that does not in anyway mean they neccesarily believed in the 12er imami doctrine of imamate.
    Abu Musa ashari WITH ali at siffin? which PRIMARY SOURCE did you find that in ?
    abu musa was clearly neutral ONLY reason why ali retained him intially as governer of kufa was because Al Ashtar thought he was a good guy.He was dismissed later by ali.Abu Musa was appointed arbitrator by Ashath b qays ( who btw i dont like in anyway whose daughter was married to Hasan b ali ) since he was primarily interested in protecting interests of kufan ashraf.Ali only gave in to ashath's demand to keep the coalition against muawiyah viable it was a big blunder many advised against it including ibn abbas , adi b hatim and ahnaf b qays.
    So Ashath b qays might be a supporter of ali at siffin but abu musa clearly isnt he never fought for ali
  2. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    quite aware of it just as there are varaitions in the list of who attended aqabah or badr
    2
    there is letter from ali to shurayh appointing him the vanguard of his troops, i have no confusrion regarding followers of ali apart from the confusion which is inherent in our historical sources
    was AlAshtar theologically an alid ? who was and who wasnt a theologically an alid is there a list somewhere ?
    why forget hujr ? shuryah tried to help muslims sons but under the situation it wasnt enough
    marwan was trying to kill talha a opponent of uthman.perspnal motive
    i agree sunni is a second century product too
    quite aware of it but their opponents havent produced works of their calibre on this subject, hinds name all groups in article
    are you qualified to handle primary ( which mostly are secondary sources in reality ) ?
  3. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    wrong conclusion, i relied on historicAL RESEARCHES OF OTHERS BTW is it a sin to change ur aqeedah if u find overwhelming evidence against it ?
    sadly u only honor worldly success, he dosent seem to care about it.
    3
    so would u benefit from this "additional information" if it comes from non-imami 12er sources ? or do u blindly follow ur own scholars ?,
    did imams leave a book for u ? if not how are their hadith authenticated ? does it involve a complicated science of ilm-e-rijal ? knowledge of geneology and history ? but u rely on non-infallible sources for that dont u ?
  4. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    when did i make that claim ?
    i was pointing out the inaccuracies of his statements just like you crticize Al-Asi even though you might not be close to his knowledge or experience

    so modern day academic methods are the ultimate test of veracity of sources ? would you be willing to test your aqeedahs according to the theories based on decades of research done by likes of Madelung, Kohlberg, Donner, Poonawalla etc or would you take Nakhswani's word against theirs ? or Martin hinds for that matter !
  5. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    i refered to hinds work so you could have a start but i dont completely rely on it for myself , can you name the PRIMARY sources of islamic history ? esp pertaining to uthmans opponents the topic at hand
    thats not unique most PHD thesis incorporate that no matter what field you are in,i will be interested in his conclusions about important events rather than details of methodology since there is nothing "new " here, these sources have been debated upon by generations of scholars
  6. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    his thesis is debunking the fanciful picture that aisha bewley has painted of muawiyah, as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.
    being a historian or religious scholar is not my profession, I have my own and Alhumdillah I perform in it very well.My beef with guys like nakhswani is that they knowingly hide the truth and twist the facts to suit their sectarian agenda, in this lecture he is trying to say as if no supporters of ali were involved in the uprising and revolt/killing of uthman.Thats simply not true any objective historian will tell u
    read the "murder of the caliph uthman" by Martin Hinds for starters( and he quotes exclusively muslim and mostly pro-shiite sources in it )if u want primary sources did up what Baladhuri , waqidi, abu mikhanaf and others have said about it.More original sources like manuscripts are beyond my reach they are mostly in museaums.But a lot of that is not incorporated in traditional curriculam either whether university or otherwise.Many original works of historians are LOST anyway e.g abu mikhnaf, ibn kalbi , waqidid their primary works are mostly lost
  7. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    ,
    hadith and history are different issues , maghazi and history cannot be studied from hadith alone thats a commonly accepted principal
    not really he is one of the 4 who broke into the chamber of uthman and he is listed as a leader of certain egyptian groups
    ibn hamiq is a sahabi and prominent before his killing
    shurayh is at the arbitration with ALi in siffin, and he NEVER sanctioned killing of hujr infact he tried to stop their killing after his signature was forged by ibn ziyad
    so thats what i said, there is no dispute here
    so what he raised by uthman bottomline is that he supported ali and was an opponent of uthman, he was an egyptian and the friends with muhammad b abibakr
    secondly have u heard of abdullah b masadi al farazi ? he was raised by ali but he hated ali and supported muawiyah
    i never said he was a supporter of ali.
    that practice was common in those days that does not mean he was a imami shia, since his opponents said they were followers of uthman.If his oppenents were like present day sunnis why didnt they acknowlwedge themselves as followers of abubakr or umar first before uthman ?
  8. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    all these lines but just bunch of fluff , i can see your frustration as u cant answer my questions
    nakhswani is "recognized historian" what piece of academic historical work has he produced
    regarding your question of original sources anyone can have access to original sources, the books that i refer to are considered primary sources today of biographies since their sources are now not availible
    i have heard these twisted theories and series of half-truths several times before plz answer the questions that I raised
    if u want to go into the genesis of the various factions of shia thats a seperate discussion.
  9. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    ur delibrately trying to avoid talking about the issues i raised in my earlier posts
  10. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    ^ refer to post #25
    for refs see biography of ibn abihudhayfa/ibnhamiq/ in Usdul Ghaba and Al-Isaba
    and events around murder of uthman and its participants listed in Tabari, muhammad b abibakrs role is wellknown in it
    for shurayah b hanis loyalty to ali see the events around arbitration at siffin in Tabari or Minqari waqat sifffin
    He mentions Abul Hasan Mazani as killer of uthman,its true but I wasnt able to locate any of his participation in the later civil war
    but Rifa'a b Rifea Zuraqi another Badri is one of those who assaulted the house of ibn affan and he is listed in all his biographies as a participant in all wars of ali on his side
    should we begin to name the opponents of uthman who were in ali's army
  11. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    ^ when somebody lies so blatantly as nakhswani does then they hide the truth and propogate falsehood, what respect cud we have for such people ?
  12. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    ur reply has nothing to do with the topic at hand, think for moment before u shoot from the hip
    he does sing at the end of his lectures trying to pretend as if hes mourning
  13. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    nakhswani twists the fact
    muhammad b abihudhayfa a killer of uthman cousin of muawiyah but he was in the army of ali b abitalib
    similarly one of the "theological shias" according to him amr b hamiq, is a known opponent and killer of uthman
    shuryah b hani who he says abandoned sons of ibn aqeel ! was a known companion of ali, he is said to have protested and opposed killing of hujr b adi
    cheap sensationalism thats what garners supports
    yes, but almost exclusively Tabeeen, even many of them are highly regarded in sunni rijal works like Al-Ashtar, Zayd b Suhan.
    why does nakhswani sings towards the end of his lectures ? its kinda childish and idiotic
    jazakallah Tawwabun were momineen and indeed are in heaven
  14. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    how do u know that ? did anyone from shia of ali fight against or curse abubakr/umar ?
  15. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    there were many opponents of uthman so can we assume all of them were "shia of ali" ?
    the quotes u have given only prove that those who killed hussain were uthmani and those who were with hussian didnt have a good opinion of uthman this was exactly the difference between shia of ali and shia of uthman who were participants of the first civil war
  16. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    what is the historical proof that "shia al-khasa" were following a different fiqah than other "shias" or even other followers e.g of yazid
    i am not interested in who killed hussain b ali
  17. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    ^ these are names of the people who were loyal to hussain b ali
    thats not my question, the question is what is the proof that these people held the same beleifs as 12er imamis of today
  18. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from TryHard in Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?   
    like who ? can u name some and what evidence is there that their beliefs were different
  19. My Prayers
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from Ashvazdanghe in A question for men   
    i prefer someone who has a good job, cooking and cleaning is so OVERRATED 
    and I'm a minimalist so I can feed and clean myself 
    with kids yes both partners can take turns, i love taking care of kids too
  20. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from Ashvazdanghe in Ayatollah's Five Volumes Book on Truthful Companions   
    I will be very interested in this too please share more information 
     
    what did he say about abu ayub ?
  21. Haha
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from Ashvazdanghe in If Shias were the majority   
    When in your timeline does shiaism becomes majority sect ? 
     
    Interesting thread 
  22. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to islamicmusic in Ayatollah's Five Volumes Book on Truthful Companions   
    Salam. I was watching this TV program called سمت خدا Samt-e Khoda (the city of God), the most watched show in Iran, which interviews with scholars every week.
    The episode I saw was with Dr. Raefi in Fatima Masumeh Shrine
    https://www.telewebion.com/episode/2526872
    Dr. Raefi says; if you ask (Iranian) people in the street, you will see that they won't be able to name more than twenty companions of the Prophet. This is sad. So, I will talk about companions of the Prophet in this series. And then he talks about Abu Ayyoub Al-Ansari.
    And he says there are not many books in Persian written by Iranian scholars about the companions, except a few.
    He mentions a book written by Ayatollah Jafar Sobhani on Companions of the Truthful Prophet.
    And he also mentions a five volumes book on the truthful companions written by Ayatollah Alemi, whom Rahbar Seyyed Ali Khamenei praised and shared condolence message on his death.
    Any chance we can find these books by Ayatollah Alemi and Ayatollah Jafar Sobhani in English?
  23. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from notme in Being wealthy   
    true to an extent 
    but accumulation of any sort is not justified as long as there are poor in such huge numbers in this world, so there is some injustice that is occurring by which we accumulate wealth whether we know it or not 
  24. Like
    Panzerwaffe got a reaction from notme in From Tent City Skid Row, CA To the Ghettos of Detroit, MI, USA   
    no we destroyed ralph naders and bernie's careers by a resounding majority 
    we in america hate all revolution, we HATE socialism while not understanding what it means and while demanding all its benefits
    the problem is the "educated" middle class which sees imaginary social evils and lives in a self righteous bubble and does not know how the world works 
    wealthy will always be evil but whose votes keep them in power ?
    I really wish we can rehabilitate the image of socialism in america, putting the "social" in SS checks many of us love to receive 
  25. Like
    Panzerwaffe reacted to notme in Thoughts 2021   
    Nothing will get better if we continue the same! We have to make the world better, inshallah. 
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