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In the Name of God بسم الله

Abu Nur

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Posts posted by Abu Nur

  1. 4 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

    kafir is one who Rejects Allah, his prophet or his book

    One who doesn’t follow the prophet when he knows the prophets words

    Good, we agree. Shaytan became kafir for disobeying God and still he have faith for God. 

    4 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

    You are the one who rejects some hadiths and accepts the one you like, so do I. So what’s the big deal????

    You have been here very unclear of what your stance is. Reading by your previous posts it make people think that you think hadiths have less importance in our belief or that Quran is enough for us. 

    It is not enough, because part of the obedience is prophet words so we need Hadiths also. And they are no less important. 

    I don't care what hadiths you accept, but it is essential to believe in them. 

  2. 11 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

    There are TONS of verses where Allah says 

    “Say O Prophet” 

    So yes we could learn from Muhammad JUST from the Quran, but we have more knowledge with the Hadith. NOT denying. 



    A Kafir is one who Rejects/Denies Allah as the One lord and Muhammad as his final prophet.


    There is sufficient information in the Quran about how the prophet acted, and what the prophet did, and what we should do as Muslims. ENOUGH to please allah

    the hadith just HELPS, In SOME cases. 

    Allah has made clear he is not trying to make life hard for us, in the Quran. 

    Don't make something important to sound like less important. Disobeying God and Prophet Muhammad (saws) and rejecting their sayings is Kufur. So Hadiths are very important and part of the Obedience of God and Prophet. I clearly distinguish that God words are Qur'an and the rest are the Prophet, and we can not reject the Prophet words either because of the Obeying is wajib.


    But back to my example, it won’t make sense if a person doesn’t have access to the hadiths but only had the QURAN, he wouldn’t be a believer, nor be able to please his lord. Allah doesn’t make life hard, even IF this person prayed the wrong way but still managed to pray to Allah according how he believed was correct from following the Quran, I believe Allah would have mercy on him, and accept his Salat. 

    Imagine if the person have only access to Hadiths only. Then his belief will be judged based on the knowledge of Hadiths and his faith. But most of the case is that we have access to both of them and we need to follow both of them.

  3. 24 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

    The Quran says (at various places) obey Allah and obey His messenger. 

    Without hadith you can't obey the messenger because you don't know what he instructed. 

    Quran is God words, so what is the words of our Prophet so we can learn to what exactly we need to obey. They are exactly the hadiths. It means there are such an essential laws and beliefs uttered by the prophet that we must believe in it or else we become kafir and these words are not found in Quran. 

  4. Quote

    If God is a communicating and speaking God - If that is part of his character then he can not stop communicating or he would cease to be who he is.  There could never have been a time when communication or "The Word of God" was not intigral to God's very being.

    No, his action is based on His intention, If He intended not to speak, He does not cease to be Communicator, or The One Who Talk to His slave.

  5. Quote

    Kalimatullah are integral to God - it is clear in the Injil that when Jesus the Messiah is refered to as "The Word of God" we are seeing an explination of the integral nature of Jesus the Messiah and the One God, creator and sustaniner (by His Word) of the universe. The Trustworthy Injil John Chapter 1 says

    Kalimatullah in the manner of Jesus was that God Created Jesus directly by the Word BE! The same way with Adam. Your interpretation is not acceptable by Qur'an either, so yes you are here describing what Christians believe.

  6. Quote

    That’s fine, humans will be humans. 
    where is the proof?

    The proof is logical following by what God have taught us about Himself. In this issue God says that He Is the First and Eternal, this itself tells that to be the first, It must be that He was Only Him alone without creation in existence and nothingness expect God. This itself tell that it is impossible that God have always created. Being Creator does not mean that He need to act as Creator (there is no need, but He wills whatever He wills with His Intention). Nor when He act first time to create the creations follows that He became a Creator (Astagfurullah).

  7. 15 minutes ago, Cool said:

    Salam Brother, 

    Yes there is a difference in meaning obviously when applied to any servant. But even in the absolute sense, the name remains name, the difference of ism & musamma will be there. Ism either in its absolute meaning, would be used to point to The Absolute One. And that ism in no way become the ذات. 

    What I am arguing is that the "very being" of Imam is the ism of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and are therefore a proof of Him. Like Jesus mentioned in Quran as Kalimatullah, are His "words" could become Him in anyway? There would remain difference between His كلام or كلمة and His ذات. 


    Salaam Aleikum Brother, you are very right. May God bless you.

  8. Quote

    Keep lost!!!! The Prophet & Imam in themselves, their very being, are the ism of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), nothing else. 

    As it is said that:

    الاسم دليل على المسمى، وعلم على المسمى

    (The name is evidence of the named, and knowledge of the named)

    Prophet & Imam, being the name of God, are His proof. 

    I just want to make one clear thing about this. Imams (عليه السلام) using these names are only for demonstrating their status and state and also as you said His proof. For example Imam Ali (عليه السلام) calling himself "The First", means that he is the first male Muslim who accepted the Prophet Muhammad (saws) message, not God's name The First (Awwalu). For Imams (عليه السلام) the names are very different in meaning than God names that are referring to God as Absolute.


  9. 1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

    the Quran is what it is, a holy book delivered to us from Allah.

    These are same people who believe that actions of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is eternal (or that He is acting eternaly) , that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) must have always creating and talking. 

  10. 41 minutes ago, Cool said:

    It is said that:

    الاسم دليل على المسمى، وعلم على المسمى

    (The name is evidence of the named, and knowledge of the named)

    Ibn Taimiyyah struggled to get rid of this matter lol, let me share his statement:

    لأن أسماء الله من كلامه، وكلام الله غير مخلوق، بل هو المتكلم به، وهو المسمى لنفسه بما فيه من الأسماء

    (Because the names of God are from His words, and the words of God are not created. Rather, he is the one who speaks with them, and he is the one who names himself with the names that are in it)

    So that means for them Holy Quran is not created thing. The stance of Ahlul Sunnah is mentioned below:

    يعتقد أهل السنة والجماعة أن القرآن الكريم كلام الله غير مخلوق، فقد روي عن الإمام أحمد بن حنبل أنه قال: والقرآن كلام الله، ليس بمخلوق، فمن زعم أن القرآن مخلوق فهو جهمي كافر، ومن زعم أن القرآن كلام الله عز وجل ووقف ولم يقل مخلوق ولا غير مخلوق: فهو أخبث من الأول، ومن زعم أن ألفاظنا بالقرآن وتلاوتنا له مخلوقة والقرآن كلام الله فهو جهمي، ومن لم يكفر هؤلاء القوم كلهم فهو مثلهم

    (Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jama’ah believe that the Noble Qur’an is the word of God and is not created, for it was narrated on the authority of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal that he said: The Qur’an is the word of God, not created, so whoever claims that the Qur’an is created is an unbeliever. Whoever claims that the Qur’an is the word of God Almighty and stops and does not say created or uncreated, then he is more wicked than the first. And whoever claims that our utterances of the Qur’an and our recitation of it are created and that the Qur’an is the word of God is a Jahmee, and whoever does not declare all of these people to be a disbeliever is like them.) 

    So interestingly, if you see the ahadith of Imams with us, explaining this matter, you would see that we are more than the Kafir according to the clauses put forth by Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal (ومن زعم أن القرآن كلام الله عز وجل ووقف ولم يقل مخلوق ولا غير مخلوق: فهو أخبث من الأول) just because we limit ourselves to the statement that Quran is Kalam Allah. 

    And if we believe that the words of God are created, then we are Kafir.. 

    I am wondering if we ever get rid of these titles, Kafir Mushrik, Zindeeq, Rafidah etc.. lol

    Very annoying how fallible human can judge other human and the rest follow with his judgment. 

  11. 6 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

    As for the trinity, it's really simple. Don't fall down into the rabbit hole of speculation that some try to crawl into. 

    This is according to the Bible

    Adam: 'One God'

    Noah: 'One God'

    Abraham: 'One God'

    Moses: 'One God'

    David: 'One God'

    Jesus: 'One God'

    Muhammad: 'One God'

    (peace be upon all of them)

    Paul, many years after the Death of Jesus, 

    'Three gods, Jesus is one of them'

    So who should I believe , Paul or all the Prophets of God. I'll take the word of the Prophets over Paul (some dude who made his living as a hired assasin)

    It's that simple. 

    They believe in one God, but the problem becomes with the Essence of God. There is two problems with the trinity. First, If trinity could ever be right first the Father,the son and the Spirit must be all same and one, but the trinity says the Father is not the son, nor the Spirit is the Father.

    Second the nature of the Spirit and the son is problematic because they believe they are God, but they also have the  attributes of increasing and decreasing, ascending descending, limiting to space and time.

  12. If we all say but we do take the Sunnah from him, then how could we claim this and have different way of prayers from each other, different way of doing wudhu, different timing of sawm, different laws, different beliefs about God nature? Do you think Imam Ali (عليه السلام) did them all together or he only did one and the correct ones?

  13. Salaam aleikum,

    Why it is not enough that for every Muslim we should all take the Sunnah of Prophet from Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and from the family and companions of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) who knew him best. You will have then same salat, sawm, same laws, same belief about the tawhid of God etc.

    Imam Ali (عليه السلام) is the best judge and judge in Islam need to know most of the knowledge about Islam. When two differ then the judge is the one who will solve the matter by giving the right answer.


  14. 5 hours ago, Nad_M said:

    This is a post-mosaic development meant at consoling the exiled Jews. There is no notion of a messianic salvific figure anywhere in the 5 books of Moses.

    Btw, what do you say about those verses in Hebrew bible (in late Jewish scriptures) that talks about the prophecy of Messiah will come and at that time every nations shall come toward the jews and hold them saying that you were the right ones and God is with you? 

    Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.  Zechariah 8:23

  15. 15 hours ago, realizm said:

    I do not confuse them. In biblical logic, prophets of Bani Israel were very often associated with the king, be it in good terms or bad terms. As like Nabi Yusuf (عليه السلام), Daniel (عليه السلام), Yahia (عليه السلام) etc. That was a particularity amongst the Religion of Israelites. 

    And the reason I emphasize the period between Isa and Muhammad (sawas) is because from what we know, Allah's order (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to go from an exclusive to an universal religion changed after nabi Isa. 

    Jews believe that there were about 1 million jewish prophets and most of them they do not know. What it means is that most of these prophets were non-apparent and only few of them were apparent.

  16. 7 hours ago, tek91 said:

    Ok no problem.

    I do not see how your logic applies to God.. He cant do this or cant do that. This limits him or that limits him...

    Who are we as his creations to say what limits God?

    Did not God speak through a burning bush, a donkey, show his backside to prophet Moses and other things in the torah and tanach?

    Who are we to say God could not send his Word down to Earth to exist as a man for a time while being in heaven above at the same time?

    Did God make laws of nature for us or are we using the laws of nature to bind him by?

    I'm showing that it is a paradox, contradiction. God does not change, it implies that His attributes can not reduce or increase. Do you understand? 

    You are the one who limits God, not me. Do you really think that God can low Himself from eternity to finite? Do you not see how absurd it is?

    If God is Spirit then it will fall for this limitation making him to change.

    7 hours ago, tek91 said:

    Did not God speak through a burning bush, a donkey, show his backside to prophet Moses and other things in the torah and tanach?

    Yes, but God is not the burning bush, nor the voice, nor the Spirit, all of these are medium being used, a creations of God to pass the message and they are not God Himself.

  17. 3 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

    What makes you think it's referring to the Swedish, Finnish, Poles, Irish, Greeks & Romans? If you believe my interpretation is from Mars then your interpretation must be from a parallel universe.

    Jesus and His followers were Jews, so they are included in Jewish Nation so it surely is not referring to them. Nor Christians are nation either. Nor is rejected stone referring to Jesus because then it will contradict his saying by saying that the the kingdom of God will take away from the Jews, and giving to rejected stone. Rejected stone can not be a Jew. And rejected stone is someone that is referred to past. The only nation is left are the brothers of the Jews Ishmael and his descendents.

    If the Christians want to believe it refers to them then let it be, I really don't know what fruit they can bring forth when they don't have any sharia. The Jews followed sharia, Prophet Jesus followed sharia, early Christians followed the sharia, Muslims followed the sharia, but only Paul and his followers rejected it and followed the opposite of it.

    What is the point of the words 

    Matthew 5:17 (“Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”

     “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).

  18. 18 hours ago, tek91 said:

    Your talking about Tovia Singer who you brought before and said that he thinks you worship the same God?

    You do know that in the debate between him and Dr. Michael Brown he said his belief of the quran the hindu books and NT is the same that they bring jewish people away from torah and a relationship with God. 

    Again Yeshua was not a creation Yeshua came down from heaven? 

    A creation means something that was brought into existence.

    Would it not be better to understand what we believe before saying things?

    For instance if I come here to dialogue and say shias love hadiths? And you tell me your wrong and I keep saying no you love hadiths.

    I really do not have enough time to discussion because it will take too long time and right now I do not have much time. I have already told you is that it is not that I do not understand your believe, but I disagree with it because as I have told you before is that it limits God to attribute of creation, space and time. It reduce His infinity nature to finite from unchanging to change. I really can not see any benefit to discuss, because it always leads to repetitive. 

  19. 6 hours ago, tek91 said:

    Of course if your muslim and dont study the gospels and torah/tanach you would come to that conclusion .. But like I told you we dont believe God is a man...

    Actually that statement I quoted is from Rabbi who have studied the tanach very well. And I agree what he says, because I believe Christians limit God without them realizing it.


    Please understand Yeshua did not start existing when he was born... Think of it as his body being tabernacle God used when The Word of God CHOSE to come down. 

    Yeshua taught God is a Spirit and to worship him in spirit and truth.

    It is not that I don't understand your part, but I reject it for the reason that you are limiting God to creation attributes. This is again the same whole conversation that we have before and I do not want to repeat it. 

  20. 6 hours ago, Andrew Israel said:

    If Jesus (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) were to come back today would you start worshipping him?  If yes, your committing idolatry.  Worshipping a man instead of God goes against the entire Old Testament.

    They made God as Image of man, while God made a man as his own image. Similar with Hinduism and old pagans beliefs.

  21. Quote

    They said, ‘You are no other than human beings like us, and the All-beneficent has not sent down anything, and you are only lying.’ (15) 

    Yes, human being with Human Essence. But His intellect is perfected, and his heart is pure, reaching to the greatest state of the human being who do not sin and thus infallible.

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