In Gods Name

Remember, don't study to debate, study to truly find the truth, so on Qiyamah, when you're given the book it is in your right hand.

There is another option: Educate ourselves.

Bismillah, “Whoever would like his rizq (provision) to be increased and his life to be extended, should uphold the ties of kinship.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2067) and Muslim (2557). 27 - أبو علي الأشعري، عن محمد بن عبد الجبار، عن صفوان بن يحيى، عن العلاء بن رزين، عن محمد بن مسلم، عن أبي جعفر (عليه السلام) قال: قل 27. Abu Ali al-Ash’ari has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Jabbar from Safwan ibn Yahya from al-‘Ala’ ibn Razin from Muhammad ibn Muslim from abu Ja’far ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following: “Say, ‘O Lord, increase my sustenance, prolong my life, forgive my sins and make me of those whom You employ to support Your religion and do not replace me by others.’” Al-Kāfi - Volume 2, Concise Supplications for Worldly Needs and the Hereafter, Hadith #27 https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/2/2/60/27

This is the kind of logical and theological gymnastics that anyone of any belief can use to defend anything. I mean this in a good way brother, you've crystallised your beliefs and you're now defending them at all costs. Rather than being objective and looking for truth. I was in two minds whether to post this, because having a mindset like this might make one very reactive when given advice and even less open to truth. But my responsibility is to clearly convey the reality as I see it.

My working theory: The issue of Tadlees is further compounded in Shia Islam compared to Sunni Islam. In Sunni Islam, a Muddalis may infrequently omit a third party or intermediary he heard a particular narration from. However, in Shia Islam, a frequent Muddalis likely compiled their collections from works of Ahadith from previous scholars which they obtained without directly verifying those works themselves all the time, and the unknown middle man getting them the book may not have been of a veracity to obtain the reliable version of a particular famous book, at a time we know many books of the companions of the Imams would be interpolated. Therefore unlike in Sunni Islam, where a narrator may well know who he is narrating a hadith from and omits them int he chain, a muhaddith like Ibn Mahbub might have used intermediaries that are servants, slaves, unknown individuals, who themselves may not have been reliable and may have obtained unreliable copies which were interpolated. Having a reliable narrator between the Muhhadith and the companion of the Imam is more pressing in Shia Islam, because the intermediary has two roles: 1. Not be an interpolator himself, or a liar, or a fabricator 2. Reliably obtain such a book without being fooled by the Ghulaat spreading false copies of such a work Why did Ibn Mahbub omit so many of his intermediaries? Were they of low rank and was he concerned his chain of narrators would be less illustrious with the Fuqaha? Either-way, I personally am very skeptical of any narration that emerges from the chain of narrators originating in any works compiled by Ibn Mahbub.

Part three: Ibn Mahboub narrating from Muqaatil b Sulayman Credit to Nader Zavri: http://www.revivingalislam.com/2011/01/hadeeth-is-daeef-weak-names-of-prophets.html Ibn Mahboub allegedly narrates from Muqaatil b. Sulayman, who died in the year 150AH. Ibn Mahboub was born in the year 150AH. This adds to another narrator Ibn Mahboub could not have directly heard from him, yet does not disclose the intermediary between him and the narrator he is said to have heard from.

Part two: Ibn Mahboub narrating directly from Malik b Attiya Credit to brothers on this thread who did the research [ Brother Cake]: "From an isnad point of view, this hadith cannot be proven to be sahih as it cannot be proven that Ibn Mahbub received this hadith directly from Malik bin Atiyya. In support of this: Ibn Mahbub has narrated from Malik through his intermediary*, Ali bin Ri'ab. For example: Al-Kafi, volume 7, page 202: [1] عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنِ ابْنِ رِئَابٍ عَنْ مَالِكِ بْنِ عَطِيَّةَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ بَيْنَا أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ع فِي مَلَإٍ مِنْ أَصْحَابِهِ إِذْ أَتَاهُ رَجُلٌ فَقَال‏ Also, the only other trustworthy narrator who definitely heard from Malik, in the Four Books, is Ali bin al-Hakam (who seems to be Ibn Mahbub's senior). And, he is not listed by anyone as being a companion of the 7th Imam and he has no narrations from the 7th Imam (at least in the Four Books), so it cannot be proven that he reached Imam al-Kadhim's [a] Imamate. Tusi lists Malik as a companion of Imams 4, 5, 6 and and we know that it is reported that Ibn Mahbub was born in 149AH. Therefore, Malik may have been an older companion of Imam as-Sadiq [a], who did not reach the Imamate of al-Kadhim [a] and hence Ibn Mahbub was unable to hear from him. And even if he reached the Imamate of the 7th Imam, he only reached, say, the first couple of years, as Zurara did (approximately)"

Part one: Ibn Mahbub narrating from Abu Hamzah at-Thumali: Ibn Mahbub died born 149AH, and died 224AH: Abu Hamzah at-Thumali on the other hand, who Ibn Mahbub narrates copiously from was born 82AH and died 150AH Therefore it should be patently clear that Ibn Mahbub could not have directly heard from or taken from Abu Hamzah at-Thumali, but rather, the books Ibn Mahbub took from that contained the Ahadith of Abu Hamzah at-Thumali must have been from an intermediary source. I need to again stress, Ibn Mahbub is a major Muhaddith, and his Ahadith span into the thousands. A hidden disconnection from him and those who he cites from but does not cite the hidden intermediaries brings about major concerns of who exactly these intermediaries were, and whether these middle-men obtained reliable copies, or if they themselves were not corrupted. Indeed, very early giants in Shia Ahadith, such as Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Isa initially refused to narrate anything from Ibn Mahbub, because of their concern he was directly narrating from Abu Hamzah at-Thumali: https://eshia.ir/feqh/archive/text/javaheri/feqh/37/380819/ (قال الكشي عن نصْر بن الصباح: ما كان احمد بن حمد بن عيسى يروي عن ابن محبوب من اجل ان اصحابنا يتّهمون ابن محبوب في روايته عن ابي حمزة الثمالي ثم تاب ورجع عن هذا القول[1] ) Al Kashi reports that Ahmad b. Muhammad B. Isa refused to narrate anything from Ibn Mahbub, because he would narrate from Abu Hamzah at-Thumali. However, he later retracted his view, and the article itself goes onto justifying how this is a permissible but frowned upon Tadlees. However, Sunnis themselves categorise those who performed Tadlees into those who did it frequently, and those who did it infrequently. In this case, if it can be proven Ibn Mahbub narrated copiously from narrators he did not meet or could have taken directly from, or if it was highly likely there was a middle person between him and the person he took from i.e. an intermediary who provided him the work of the late scholar or Muhaddith, this would introduce unknowns into a large percentage of such a narrators chain. I argue that Ibn Mahbub, if he was reliable in himself, was a frequent Mudallis. This is just one of those examples, and I want to cite many more.

Bismillah, Salam. One of the unique aspects of Shia compilation of Ahadith is that when you read a chain of narrators, often it is a narrator citing from the book of the person he is claiming to take from most of the time, who may have lent the book to him directly or he may have obtained this book through an intermediary source. For example, if Elon Musk narrates from Bill Gates, who Narrated from Steve Jobs who narrated from Winston Churchill, imagine if each individual lent the other their book of Ahadith which they copied from. However, at times, the life-times did not overlap, or at times, individuals were infants when the other had passed way For example, Steve Jobs own lifespan did not overlap with Winston Churchill. Sunnis use this as an attacking point for Shia efforts to preserve Hadith heritage from the Ahlulbayt, in that the books themselves could have been corrupted and infiltrated, and at times, individuals narrating from another individual could not possibly have met them, or were infants and could not have directly heard or taken from that book, and therefore there are intermediaries or unknown narrators in the chain who the individual did not cite. This hidden intermediary , and the practice of not naming the intermediary is known as Tadlees, and the person who performs Tadlees is regarded as a Muddlis. Sometimes, reliable and truthful narrators of Ahadith often engaged in Tadlees, and this is present even in Sunni works, where the Muddaliseen as categorised into how often they performed it. Those who were frequent in Tadlees would often not have their traditions accepted unless they directly stated they heard it from the person they are citing. In our own Shia works, there is one narrator who I have noticed has a number of Ahadith which are if I can respectfully phrase it, strange in content, which is not enough to discount them of course, but often he narrates from people he could not have met , or he was barely an infant during the time the life-times overlapped. ibn Mahbub is one such major Muhaddith, who had large works of Ahadith, but would often not name his intermediary source of the books of Hadith of earlier scholars or companions of the Imams. This introduces unknown individuals who had procured those books. We do not know who these unknown , unnamed, individuals are, and whether they obtained a legitimate and non-infiltrated copy of such a book I do not create this thread to cause doubt, but to do the opposite. Often Ahadith causes people to doubt, because it is graded authentic, whereas even major scholars of Hadith like Behboudi themselves do not agree with the gradings you find in Mirat al-Uqul. I swear by Allah, my only intention is to pursue truth, and to accurately and fairly present what I deem to be truth and to not distort Shia scholarship, but to only present this to be taken to legitimate scholars for further clarification. Anything good of what I do is from Allah, the Almighty. Any evil is from myself and from the accursed Shaytaan. What is the use of this? If an Individual was not careful in who he took from, a lot of khurafaat can creep into the books attributed to compiling sayings from the Prophet and and from the Ahlulbayt For example, here are some Ahadith from Ibn Mahbub: مُحَمَّدٌ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ جَمِيلِ بْنِ صَالِحٍ عَنْ أَبَانِ بْنِ تَغْلِبَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ (عليه السلام) قَالَ سَأَلْتُهُ عَنِ الْأَرْضِ عَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ هِيَ قَالَ هِيَ عَلَى حُوتٍ قُلْتُ فَالْحُوتُ عَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ هُوَ قَالَ عَلَى الْمَاءِ قُلْتُ فَالْمَاءُ عَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ هُوَ قَالَ عَلَى صَخْرَةٍ قُلْتُ فَعَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ الصَّخْرَةُ قَالَ عَلَى قَرْنِ ثَوْرٍ أَمْلَسَ قُلْتُ فَعَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ الثَّوْرُ قَالَ عَلَى الثَّرَى قُلْتُ فَعَلَى أَيِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ الثَّرَى فَقَالَ هَيْهَاتَ عِنْدَ ذَلِكَ ضَلَّ عِلْمُ الْعُلَمَاءِ . 55. Muhammad, from Ahmad, from Ibn Mahboub, from Jameel Bin Saleh, from Aban Bin Tabligh has narrated the following: Abu Abdullah (asws) said, ‘I asked him (asws) about the earth, which thing does it rest upon? He (asws) said: ‘It is upon the whale’. I said, ‘So the whale, which thing does it rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘Upon the water’. I said, ‘So the water, upon which thing does is rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘Upon a rock’. I said, ‘So upon which thing does the rock rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘Upon the horns of a bull’ I said, ‘So upon which thing does the bull rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘Upon the mist’. I said, ‘So upon which thing does the mist rest upon?’ He (asws) said: ‘This is how far knowledge of scholars is permitted (to reveal) and beyond this is straying’. Al-Kāfi - Volume 8, The hadith of ‘on what is the whale’, Hadith #1 https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/55/1 عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ مَالِكِ بْنِ عَطِيَّةَ عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ خَالِدٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ اللَّهِ (عليه السلام) عَنِ الْحَرِّ وَ الْبَرْدِ مِمَّا يَكُونَانِ فَقَالَ لِي يَا أَبَا أَيُّوبَ إِنَّ الْمِرِّيخَ كَوْكَبٌ حَارٌّ وَ زُحَلَ كَوْكَبٌ بَارِدٌ فَإِذَا بَدَأَ الْمِرِّيخُ فِي الِارْتِفَاعِ انْحَطَّ زُحَلُ وَ ذَلِكَ فِي الرَّبِيعِ فَلَا يَزَالَانِ كَذَلِكَ كُلَّمَا ارْتَفَعَ الْمِرِّيخُ دَرَجَةً انْحَطَّ زُحَلُ دَرَجَةً ثَلَاثَةَ أَشْهُرٍ حَتَّى يَنْتَهِيَ الْمِرِّيخُ فِي الِارْتِفَاعِ وَ يَنْتَهِيَ زُحَلُ فِي الْهُبُوطِ فَيَجْلُوَ الْمِرِّيخُ فَلِذَلِكَ يَشْتَدُّ الْحَرُّ فَإِذَا كَانَ فِي آخِرِ الصَّيْفِ وَ أَوَّلِ الْخَرِيفِ بَدَأَ زُحَلُ فِي الِارْتِفَاعِ وَ بَدَأَ الْمِرِّيخُ فِي الْهُبُوطِ فَلَا يَزَالَانِ كَذَلِكَ كُلَّمَا ارْتَفَعَ زُحَلُ دَرَجَةً انْحَطَّ الْمِرِّيخُ دَرَجَةً حَتَّى يَنْتَهِيَ الْمِرِّيخُ فِي الْهُبُوطِ وَ يَنْتَهِيَ زُحَلُ فِي الِارْتِفَاعِ فَيَجْلُوَ زُحَلُ وَ ذَلِكَ فِي أَوَّلِ الشِّتَاءِ وَ آخِرِ الْخَرِيفِ فَلِذَلِكَ يَشْتَدُّ الْبَرْدُ وَ كُلَّمَا ارْتَفَعَ هَذَا هَبَطَ هَذَا وَ كُلَّمَا هَبَطَ هَذَا ارْتَفَعَ هَذَا فَإِذَا كَانَ فِي الصَّيْفِ يَوْمٌ بَارِدٌ فَالْفِعْلُ فِي ذَلِكَ لِلْقَمَرِ وَ إِذَا كَانَ فِي الشِّتَاءِ يَوْمٌ حَارٌّ فَالْفِعْلُ فِي ذَلِكَ لِلشَّمْسِ هَذَا تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ وَ أَنَا عَبْدُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ. 474. Ali Bin Ibrahim, from his father, from Ibn Mahboub, from Malik Bin Atiyya, from Suleyman Bin Khalid who said: I asked Abu Abdullah (asws) about the heat and the cold, from what do they emanate?’ O Abu Ayyub! Mars is a hot planet and Saturn is a cold planet. So if Mars begins to rise, the Saturn goes lower, and that is in the spring. So they do not stop being like that. Every time Mars rises a level, Saturn falls for three months until the Mars ends up high and Saturn ends up in the decline. For the Mars that is its hottest time. So when it is at the end of the summer and the beginning of the autumn, Saturn begins to ascend and the Mars begins to descend. So these two do not stop being like that. Every time Saturn rises a level, Mars declines a level, and that is at the beginning of the winter and at the end of the summer. So that is its coldest time. Every time this one rises, this one comes down, and every time this one comes down, this one rises. So if there is a cold day in the summer, so that is the action of the Moon, and if there is a hot day in the winter, so that action is due to the Sun. “[36:38] that is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knowing” and I (asws) am the servant of the Lord (azwj) of the Worlds’. Al-Kāfi - Volume 8, Saturn is a cold planet, Hadith #1 https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/8/1/474/1

If this is Muhammad ibn Khalid al-Barqi, despite him being a Thiqa narrator in himself as per many, there are major question marks of this individual. 17 - محمد بن خالد، البرقي بن عبد الرحمان بن محمد بن علي، أبو عبد الله، مولى جرير بن عبد الله. حديثه يعرف وينكر. يروي عن الضعفاء كثيرا ويعتمد المراسيل. Muḥammad b. Khālid al-Barqī b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān b. Muḥammad b. ʿAlī, Abū ʿAbdillāh, client of Jarīr b. ʿAbdullāh. His ḥadīth are recognized and denied. He narrates a lot from the weak (narrators) and relies on the mursal traditions. Kitāb al-Ḍuʿafāʾ, Muḥammad b. Khālid al-Barqī b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān b. Muḥammad b. ʿAlī, Abū ʿAbdillāh, Hadith #1 https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/17/20/17/1

Bismillah, Salam. In two authentic narrations in al-Kafi, the Imams are claimed to have said that angels descend on them, leave their fluff, and they use this fluff to amuse their children. However, any particles of angels is still part of the angel, and is it not the case that angels are of the un-seen realm, and not the physical realm we see here - and that even so, nobody but a Prophet of God can see an angel? If an angels wind, or part of the wing, or fluff from a wing is broken this is still part of the angel is it not? How can such a matter of the unseen be visualised, as surely no part of an angel can be seen? Is the difference between Imamah and Prophethood as per al-Kafi's and al-Kulayni's view not that Imams can hear and not see Prophets (as per his claim and compilation)? Any argument or claim I make, I will reference with the Arabic, the English, and a reliable direct source you can verify 2ـ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ خَالِدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْقَاسِمِ عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ أَبِي الْعَلاءِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ قَالَ يَا حُسَيْنُ وَضَرَبَ بِيَدِهِ إِلَى مَسَاوِرَ فِي الْبَيْتِ مَسَاوِرُ طَالَ مَا اتَّكَتْ عَلَيْهَا الْمَلائِكَةُ وَرُبَّمَا الْتَقَطْنَا مِنْ زَغَبِهَا. 2. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Muhammad ibn Khalid from Muhammad ibn al-Qasim from al-Husayn ibn abu al-‘Ala’ who has said the following. “Once Abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) said, ‘O Husayn, tapping his hand on a cushion in the house, saying, ‘Cushions on which for a long time angels have been leaning and perhaps we pick up some of their fluff around.” Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Angels come to the Houses of the Imams, Step on their Furnishings and Bring them News, Hadith #2 https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/1/4/97/2 3ـ مُحَمَّدٌ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي مَالِكُ بْنُ عَطِيَّةَ الاحْمَسِيُّ عَنْ أَبِي حَمْزَةَ الثُّمَالِيِّ قَالَ دَخَلْتُ عَلَى عَلِيِّ بن الحسين (عَلَيْهما السَّلام) فَاحْتُبِسْتُ فِي الدَّارِ سَاعَةً ثُمَّ دَخَلْتُ الْبَيْتَ وَهُوَ يَلْتَقِطُ شَيْئاً وَأَدْخَلَ يَدَهُ مِنْ وَرَاءِ السِّتْرِ فَنَاوَلَهُ مَنْ كَانَ فِي الْبَيْتِ فَقُلْتُ جُعِلْتُ فِدَاكَ هَذَا الَّذِي أَرَاكَ تَلْتَقِطُهُ أَيُّ شَيْ‏ءٍ هُوَ فَقَالَ فَضْلَةٌ مِنْ زَغَبِ الْمَلائِكَةِ نَجْمَعُهُ إِذَا خَلَّوْنَا نَجْعَلُهُ سَيْحاً لاوْلادِنَا فَقُلْتُ جُعِلْتُ فِدَاكَ وَإِنَّهُمْ لَيَأْتُونَكُمْ فَقَالَ يَا أَبَا حَمْزَةَ إِنَّهُمْ لَيُزَاحِمُونَّا عَلَى تُكَأَتِنَا. 3. Muhammad has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al-Hakam who hassaaid that Malik ibn ‘Atiyya al-Ahmasi narrated to him from abu Hamza al-Thumali who has said the following. “Once I went to see Ali ibn al-Husayn ((عليه السلام).) and I became confounded in the room for an hour then I went inside the house while he was picking up things and would give to someone behind the curtain. I then said, may Allah take my soul in service for your cause, What was that thing that I saw you picking up?” The Imam ((عليه السلام).) said, “The fuzz from the angels when they come to meet us and we use it amuse our children.” I then said, may Allah take my soul in service for your cause, do they they come to you?” The Imam ((عليه السلام).) said, “O abu Hamza, they become crowded over our furnishings.” Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Angels come to the Houses of the Imams, Step on their Furnishings and Bring them News, Hadith #3 https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/1/4/97/3

I did a basic search of whether there may be a pre-islamic influence, either in the Sabi' , Judaic, Christian, Bedouin, Greek , ancient Pagan et al influence that may have led to such a Hadith or belief system being circulated in Baghad/Kufa/Iraq during the time period al-Kafi was compiled. I found this interesting research paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/379616900_A_Tale_of_Two_Cities_JabarsaJabalqa_and_Their_Metamorphoses Abstract: Although the twin cities at the west and east edges of the world, Jābarā (Jābar, Jābalā, Jāburā) and Jābalqā (Jābalq, Jābarqā), are somehow common-place in Islamicate cosmographies throughout the medieval period, surprisingly little research exists on them. The main lines of the legend, as formulated by the medieval traditionalists and cosmographers, are as follows: there are two cities at the uttermost east and west parts of the inhabited world, where the sun rises and sets. The inhabitants suffer from the extreme heat and the noise made by the sun in its rising and setting; they have to hide in caves and make their own noise to be protected. In the various versions of the story, some elements lack or differ; the cities are often connected with other legends related to the edge of the world, such as Dhū l-Qarnayn, the Gog and Magog/Yājūj and Mājūj, Mummad’s night journey, the remnants of the Ād tribe, and so forth. The paper traces the origins of the legend, its formation and various formulations during the Islamic Middle Ages, the significant change it underwent in the late medieval Illuminationist (ishrāqī) philosophy, and finally its survival and fading away to a status of folktale utopia in Ottoman literature and scholarshi Interesting part of the conclusion: "Being not an Arabist, I would not dare to reach any conclusions regarding the gene-alogy of the Jābarā/Jābalqa legend throughout the tafsīr and sīra literature. It is, however, clear that the basic story incorporated elements from the Hellenistic tra-ditions built around Alexander the Great, as well as from various Graeco-Roman Indica, as distilled through the Syriac versions of Alexander Romance. In the Islamic period, these legends (most probably blended with elements from Arabic mythol-ogy) found their way in Quranic exegesis, universal histories, and geographical literature; the two cities took their names, in three or four versions (not to count the Syriac or Hebrew names given), and their features, including a possible connection with the lost Tribes of Israel, had been crystallized by the 10th century CE." I wonder whether with the translation of a lot of the Hellenistic work which flooded the Muslim world around the period al-Kafi was compiled, played an influence given in my own research of al-Kafi, there appears to be strong adoption of these ideas and I wonder whether such beliefs were reverse engineered to the Imams, or whether some of the myths maybe came from revelation of earlier Prophets and through Chinese whispers were distorted into their present form?

The Shīʿa say that the Imāms are superior to the Prophets, and here is the famous saying of Khomeinī among you: “Our Imāms hold a station which neither a close angel nor a sent Prophet can attain.” Answer: “We have made it clear in our Qur’ānic exegesis and in our juristic responses that it is not established for us that the Imāms are superior to the Prophets; rather, prophethood occupies the highest rank. This is our creed and our scholarly judgment.” Link https://sayedfadlullah.com/sub_category/50/283

Bismillah, Salam. In a Saheeh narration, Imam al-Hasan is said to have claimed the following: 5ـ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَمُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحَسَنِ عَنْ يَعْقُوبَ بْنِ يَزِيدَ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ رِجَالِهِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ إِنَّ لله مَدِينَتَيْنِ إِحْدَاهُمَا بِالْمَشْرِقِ وَالاخْرَى بِالْمَغْرِبِ عَلَيْهِمَا سُورٌ مِنْ حَدِيدٍ وَعَلَى كُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا أَلْفُ أَلْفِ مِصْرَاعٍ وَفِيهَا سَبْعُونَ أَلْفَ أَلْفِ لُغَةٍ يَتَكَلَّمُ كُلُّ لُغَةٍ بِخِلافِ لُغَةِ صَاحِبِهَا وَأَنَا أَعْرِفُ جَمِيعَ اللُّغَاتِ وَمَا فِيهِمَا وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا وَمَا عَلَيْهِمَا حُجَّةٌ غَيْرِي وَغَيْرُ الْحُسَيْنِ أَخِي. 5. Ahmad ibn Muhammad and Muhammad ibn Yahya have narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Hassan from Ya‘qub ibn Yazid from Ibn Abi ‘Umayr from his people from Abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) who has said the following: “Al-Hassan ((عليه السلام).) has said, ‘Allah has two cities. One is in the east and the other is in the west. They have a boundary around them that is made of iron and each one has a million doors. Seven thousand different languages exist therein and I know all those languages and all that is in and between them, and there is no one Hujjah (Leader with Divine Authority) except me and al-Husayn ((عليه السلام).) my brother.'" Al-Kāfi - Volume 1, The Birth of al-Hassan ibn Ali ((عليه السلام).), Hadith #5 https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/1/4/115/5 __ Does anyone know where these cities are?

Bismillah, Salam. The best way to honour the Ahlulbayt is to be the foremost in your understanding of Tawheed and the noble Quran. Memorise it, recite it, master the Arabic language. Call to the path of the Ahlulbayt without words, be at your physical peak, be eloquent, be patient, when they insult you, respond with kindness, with wisdom. Paralyse them with a response of pure Hikmah and one who is connected to Allah. Remember, even if they do not change their ways, you are doing the above for Allah, you win no matter what if Allah accepts your efforts. ---- However , i want you to consider their view, why they have their thoughts. It's true, the Prophet saw never prayed on a Turbah nor did his companions. It was a later invention. However, you can try to pray on other permissible items, and relay to them it is only a Fiqh difference on praying from that which is non-edible and comes from the earth, and this can be hundreds of things, maybe thousands of things.