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In the Name of God بسم الله

Ibn Abu Talib

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About Ibn Abu Talib

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  • Birthday 11/21/1986

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  1. salam happy birthday to you

  2. In other words, you have no idea what the numbers of the traditions are since your shia website has not provided any. Look at the first tradition above, Ali(ra) clearly declared Abu Bakr(ra)'s superiority. As for the second hadith, you still need to take into mind the first one. Ali(ra) thought he had a right to rule, and he also told Abu Bakr(ra) that he should have consulted him about the matter which means he(ali(ra)) was not present during the incident, hence, had no idea about the electoral process. Who said Abu Bakr(ra) was humilitated? Of course not. That is why he nominated two sahabas for the leadership, but was himself chosen. Context here is irrelevant. You have no solid refutations for the hadith concerning the lady. The best you could say was "Maybe she wanted water". And the Muslims carried out the order by choosing Abu Bakr(ra) We are talking about Imam Ali(ra) not his sons. But if it was his exclusive right to lead the Muslims as deviant shiahs say, don't you think he would fought for it? Look closely at what Imam Ali(ra) said If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief." Now why would someone who was infallible, had his rights taken away from "apostates" would agree to obey a chief other than him? Please, you are the one who cannot even provide the numbers to the traiditons. And I stick to what I responded earlier. If you don'w want to agree with the lady hadith, then tell me why did the Prophet(pbuh) tell the Muslims to copy Abu Bakr and Umar(ra) after his death? Are you infallibe? Do you know what will happen in the future? Your Imams know, and since Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is the leader of all Imams, he surely had known that Abu Bakr would hurt Fatimah. Yet, he chose him as an ally and not only deviated from the Quran, but misled the ummah into thinking that Abu Bakr was a pious Muslim. Look what your brother poiuyt said in this thread http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=83903 You can follow the apostates to hell "sunni" and "Ahlul Sunnah Waljamma" were terms created by the biggest apostate humanity has seen: mavia (PPEKLA). People should hang their heads in shame for following ideology under then banner of a name created (BIDAT) by an apostate kuffaar lanati swine lover. Obviously if Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar(ra) and co were apostates and Kaffir, they would go to Hell. Your argument fails MS :D Yes, they were capable of making mistakes. But we don't believe they apostacized. Don't you understand the verses? Allah is chiding the Prophet(pbuh) for not paying much attention to those who fear Allah. It does not get any clearer than that. Yes or no, did the infallible shia Prophet(pbuh) marry Aisha(ra) knowing she would apostacize in the future? Was that from a Sunni book? Who is the author? Ali (ra) said to the Kharijites: "With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf." Who are the majority Muslims? Shias who account for 10% of the Muslim population?
  3. It has been so many days, and Mehdi soldier is still unable to provide the exact tradition.
  4. No, I insist you post the hadith numbers. Are you just blindly copying and pasting from shia sites? What fabrication? Ali(ra) thought he had a right to rule, but he didnt say that he was exclusively the successor of the Prophet(pbuh). Otherwise, he would have fought for it just like he fought Muawiyah. But if you say the second hadith is wrong, even then you cannot insist that Ali(ra) was the rightful successor of the Prophet(pbuh) because he told those who came to elect him after Uthman(ra)'s murder "Leave me and seek some one else. We are facing a matter which has (several) faces and colours, which neither hearts can stand nor intelligence can accept. Clouds are hovering over the sky, and faces are not discernible. You should know that if I respond to you I would lead you as I know and would not care about whatever one may say or abuse. If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief." He also said "By Allah, I had no liking for the caliphate nor any interest in government, but you yourselves invited me to it and prepared me for it." Imam Ali(ra) may not have been aware of it. As I have said earlier, he would fought for the leadership if it was his exlusive right to succeed the Prophet(pbuh). I have presented you with Imam Ali(ra)'s own words about the Caliphate. Go explain that. Again with the copy and pastings. Give me the hadith numbers All you have done so far is copy and past from shia websites which do not even provide accurate references. Come up with something original. Authentic information is contained in the siha sitta, not history books. Besides, I have already told you that Tabari included fabricated traditions in his book. If that lamention thing is authentic, it would have been there in the sihah sitta and earliest biographies of the Prophet(pbuh) by Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham. And where is the reference? That website you put does not mention any. Is that from a sunni book? If so, which one? You are not convinced because you have no solid refuations for it. As for the other traditions, Imam Ali(ra) contradicts your own faith by showing his reluctancy for the caliphate. But the verse says not to choose disbelievers as friends/allies/patrons. What do you mean by he chose them because what they tend to be? You did not understand my question at all. I said According to your beliefs, Prophet(pbuh) was leader of the Imams. He sided with "apostates" Abu Bakr and Umar to fight the infidels, even though he knew they were going to Hell. Therefore, he went against the teaching of the Quran by taking disbelievers as auliyah(supporters/allies/friends). Do you agree with me? And according to your books "By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly" (Usool al Kafi, p. 185) Since the Prophet is the leader of the Imams, he knew the fate of Abu Bakr and Umar by listening to them. Therefore, he clearly went against the Quranic teaching by choosing disbelievers for friends. Didnt Imam Baqir supposedly say that Satan pledged alliance to Abu Bakr? According to Shiite scholar Al killini, the Companions of the prophet (may Peace Be Upon Him) had all turned disbeleivers after his death except three. He wrote "All the people rejected Islam after the death of the Prophet except three. I said "And who are these?" He said, "Al Miqudad ibn Awsad, Abu Dharr Al Ghifari and Salman the Persian. Heavenly mercy be on them all." (Osul Al Kafi; p: 655.) Obviously disbelievers will go to Hell. hence, you lied when you said that shiahs don't know the fate of Abu Bakr and Umar(ra) Yes, and it is recorded in Sahi Muslim that there will be 12 hypocrites. Qays reported: I said to Ammar: What is your opinion about that which you have done in case (of your siding with Ali)? Is it your personal opinion or something you got from Allah's Apostle? Ammar said: We have got nothing from Allah's Apostle which people at large did not get, but Hudhayfah told me that Allah`s Apostle (peace be upon him) had especially told him amongst his Companion, that there are twelve hypocrites out of whom eight would not get into Paradise, until a camel would be able to pass through the needle hole. The ulcer would be itself sufficient (to kill) eight. (So far as four are concerned, I do not remember what Shu'bah said about them.) And two died during the time of the Prophet We went along with Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) to visit a person suffering from fever. When I placed my hand upon him, I said: By Allah, I have never seen, till this day, a person running higher temperature than he. Thereupon Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) turning his face to his companions, said: May I not inform you of a severer temperature than this which these two persons would run on the Day of Resurrection? And they were two hypocrites riding upon the camel turning their back towards (the Muslims). They cannot be Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and so on since the Prophet(pbuh) guaranteed them Paradise. Don't you know how to read, or are you misquoting me on purpose. Where did I ever say that the companions were infallible? If he was a Quraishy pagan, why would Allah say 8 But as for him who cometh unto thee with earnest purpose 9 And hath fear, 10 From him thou art distracted. Clearly, Allah has described the blind old man as one who fears Allah. If you don't agree with that, you are being irrational. Your argument contradicts your beliefs. Look at this closely The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them" (Ibid, p. 260.) Since according to your kind, the Prophet(pbuh) had knowledge of the future, he married a woman knowing that she would apostacize after his death, thus, contradicting the Quran. Well, he did marry a woman who he knew(according to your logic) would apostacize in the future.
  5. Interesting But where does the second tradition say that he admitted fabricating the entire or part of the tradition? Infact, he related to the audience what the Prophet(pbuh) said, after which he added his commentary said. He made it clear that the commentary was from him. That is not dishonesty. As for the third, maybe he was doing it because of some, I don't know, problem. Afterall, he thought he was alone. However he did tell the people who were with him that the Prophet performed the ablution in another way.
  6. Tijani did not mention the number of the traditions either. Sigh.....why must I repeat myself? Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "I do not know how long I shall remain among you, so copy those two who will remain after I am gone: AbuBakr and Umar." In another tradition, the Rasul(saw) described both Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar(ra) as trustworthy. Indeed, it was due to their leadership that Islam was strong and spread wide. The Prophet(pbuh) never told the lady to go to both Abu bakr(ra) and Umar(ra). And I never said it was enforcement of the companions being his successors. The context of the tradition is irrelevant. If the Prophet(pbuh) wanted her to consult Abu Bakr on secular matters, he would have said so. Instead, the Messenger told her to go to Abu Bakr(ra) if she found him dead, implying Abu Bakr was worthy both as a religious leader. But if you want a straight tradition where the Prophet(pbuh) told the Muslims to elect Abu Bakr as leader, here is one It was narrated that Ibn Mas’ood said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Take as your leaders those who come after me, Abu Bakr and ‘Umar.’” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3805; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani). The hadith where Fatimah(ra) was displeased with Abu Bakr(ra) is 5.546. But in the same tradition, Ali(ra) tells Abu bakr(ra) "We know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the good what Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us in the question of the rule and we thought that we have got a right in it because of our near relationship to Allah's Apostle." And what happened next Thereupon Abu Bakr's eyes flowed with tears. And when Abu Bakr spoke, he said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is to keep good relations with the relatives of Allah's Apostle is dearer to me than to keep good relations with my own relatives. But as for the trouble which arose between me and you about his property, I will do my best to spend it according to what is good, and will not leave any rule or regulation which I saw Allah's Apostle following, in disposing of it, but I will follow." On that 'Ali said to Abu Bakr, "I promise to give you the oath of allegiance in this afternoon." As for point number two, the Rasul(pbuh) was alive when he was saying that. And he also said that Abu Bakr(ra) will go to Paradise. Ali(ra) acknowledged the Caliph's superiority and gave him the pledge. Fatimah(ra) may have been wrong. Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection. It is not a fabricated tradition, that's merely your assertion. Read the tradition carefully, it says that he wanted to avoid the punishment before meeting Allah(swt). Perhaps he was talking about the punishment/torture in the grave. Where is the tradition that says she presented "evidence" from the Quran? Those were the Prophet's own words, not mine. Where is the tradition where Fatimah(ra) swears at Abu Bakr(ra) in the sihah sitta? Where is the lamentation of Abu Bakr(ra) in the sihah sitta? I have answered your question. I have shown traditions where the Prophet(pbuh) told a lady to go to Abu Bakr(ra) if she found him dead, that Muslims should copy and take as leaders Abu Bakr and Umar, that Abu Bakr led the prayers when Messenger was sick, Ali(ra) acknowledging the superiority of Abu Bakr(ra), and so on. Here are my questions 1.If you believe the Prophet(pbuh) is infallible, he would clearly go against these Quranic teachings by choosing Abu bakr(ra) and Umar(ra) as his friends O ye who believe! Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you? (4:144) Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying. (3: 28) 2. "By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly" (Usool al Kafi, p. 185) According to your beliefs, Prophet(pbuh) was leader of the Imams. He sided with "apostates" Abu Bakr and Umar to fight the infidels, even though he knew they were going to Hell. Therefore, he went against the teaching of the Quran by taking disbelievers as auliyah(supporters/allies/friends). Do you agree with me? 3. "The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them" (Ibid, p. 260.) Since Prophet(pbuh) is the leader of Imams, he too had knoweldge of the past and future. Therefore, he deliberately turned away the bilnd man even though he knew that person would come to him. Why did the Messenger(pbuh) gain the anger of Allah by doing that? Also, he knew Abu Bakr(ra) and Umar(ra) would "apostacize" after his death. But he still chose to take them as his friends (he even married their daughters), hence going against the teaching of the Quran by siding with disbelievers. 4. Surely, the Prophet(pbuh) knew that Aisha(ra) would apostacize. Yet, he married her which goes against the teaching of the Quran Vile women are for vile men, and vile men for vile women. (24:26)
  7. Mehdi soldier, I will reply tomorrow, Inshallah. Sorry for the delay
  8. Please, use your commonsense. There are many editions of Bukhari, Muslim, and so on, published by various organizations. Do you think all these have the same page numbers? I have not asked you for Ibn Tayimmah's work. I simply requested the number of the shahi bukahri hadith which you posted earlier. And please, you should be the last person to talk about hypocrisy. Do not forget the fact that you still have not shown the actual tradition where Umar is called a fence. And I did show tht Prophet(pbuh) told the Muslims to copy Abu Bakr and Umar(ra) after his death. I also showed that the Prophet(pbuh) told a certain lady to go to Abu bakr if she finds him dead. I also quoted from Najhul Balagha where Imam Ali(ra) showed his reluctancy for the caliphate. Instead of refuting the traditions constructively, you say, for example in the case of the tradition of the lady, that she perhaps wanted water. You are a liar. I never said Ali(ra) hated Fathimah(ra). Infact, here is the actual quote I made prior to this post Hence, it cannot go two ways. If Abu bakr(Ra) hurt Fathimah's feelings, then he hurt Allah's Messenger. However, Ali(Ra) said Abu bakr(ra) was the best man after Muhammad(pbuh). If Ali(ra) pertains to Muhammad(pbuh), and he thinks Abu Bakr was a great companion, then indeed he did not hurt Allah's Messenger. I am not a Shia that I should lie for the benefit of my religion. Infact, the Prophet(pbuh) told us The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "If you guarantee me six things on your part I shall guarantee you Paradise. Speak the truth when you talk, keep a promise when you make it, when you are trusted with something fulfil your trust, avoid sexual immorality, lower your eyes, and restrain your hands from injustice." If you don't believe in our traditions, why do you quote from it in the first place? You don't believe in our traditions. And now you want to discuss it. And Ali(ra) praying for Umar, calling him the second best companion carries no weight? Umar(ra) may have said those words out of fear. I do not see it as a contradiction since the Prophet(pbuh), in one of his supplications, said When it was evening Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) used to supplicate: "We entered upon evening and the whole Kingdom of Allah also entered upon evening and praise is due to Allah. There is no god but Allah, the One Who has no partner with Him." Hasan said that Zubayd reported to him that he memorised it from Ibrahim in these very words: "His is the Sovereignty and Praise is due to Him, and He is Potent over everything. O Allah, I beg of Thee the good of this night and I seek refuge in Thee from the evil of this night and the evil which follows it. O Allah, I seek refuge in Thee from sloth, from the evil of vanity. O Allah, I seek refuge in Thee from torment in the Hell-Fire and from torment in the grave." Allah's apostle knew that Allah has destined for him Paradise. Yet, out of fear and devotion for Allah, he uttered those words. Why can't we apply the same for Umar? Excuse?? I simply wanted the number of the traditions. Unless you cannot find them, then you are the one who's trying to run away. Because none of those people are divine. I think brother Akwa put it straight when he said This world is a trial, we are meant to encounter fitna and to struggle. I have showed a tradition where the Prophet(pbuh) told Aisha(ra) to distribute the money he had in possession. Infact, he said "What would Allah's Prophet think if he were to meet Allah, who is Great and Glorious, while possessing these?" From that, it can be logically deduced that a Prophet(pbuh) leaves no inheritance except as charity. You do realize that you have not answered the 4 questions I posed in one of my rebuttals.
  9. It does not disprove or negate Umar(ra)'s place in Paradise as promised by the Prophet(pbuh). Infact, it showed his fear of Allah even more. If you were implying infidelty on Umar(ra)'s part with the tradition, then you are wrong since Abdullah said We have been powerful since 'Umar embraced Islam. I earlier quoted a tradition where Ali Ibn Abu Talib(ra) was praying for Umar(ra) saying that he would be kept with Abu Bakr(ra) and Muhammad(pbuh). Hence, Umar(ra) feared to meet his Lord, or he feared that he might be taken into account for the sins he commited prior to his reversion. Whatever the case is, there are many traditions by the Prophet(pbuh) declaring Umar(Ra) to be an inhabitant of Paradise. And if you weigh those tradition with the one above, I turn out to be correct. What is the number of the hadith above? I do not have Imam Tayimma's works. Hence, I cannot verify your claims. However, I am aware of Tabair's work. He told us in the introduction that he has not verified the traditions he inserted in his works, and it is the job of the later people to check the authenticity of his reports. In other words, he included both authentic and inauthentic traditions. Let us take into consideration this tradition Allah's messenger (peace be upon him) said of Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan and al-Husayn, "I am war to him who makes war on them and peace to him who makes peace with them." I went in with my paternal aunt to visit Aisha and asked who was dearest to Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him). When she replied that it was Fatimah she was asked who was dearest among men and she replied that it was her husband. The Prophet(pbuh) also said "Ali pertains to me and I pertain to him" Hence, it cannot go two ways. If Abu bakr(Ra) hurt Fathimah's feelings, then he hurt Allah's Messenger. However, Ali(Ra) said Abu bakr(ra) was the best man after Muhammad(pbuh). If Ali(ra) pertains to Muhammad(pbuh), and he thinks Abu Bakr was a great companion, then indeed he did not hurt Allah's Messenger. As for the land, let us take a look at this During the illness of Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) she had six or seven dinars holding to him which he ordered her(Aisha) to distribute, but she was kept busy ministering to his suffering. He asked her what had happened to the six or seven dinars, and when she replied she had done nothing about them because she had been kept busy ministering to his suffering, he called for them, and placing them in his hand he said, "What would Allah's Prophet think if he were to meet Allah, who is Great and Glorious, while possessing these?" Ahmad transmitted it. I think it is clear that the Prophet(pbuh) did not leave anything but as sadaqah. You have not answered the questions I posed to you
  10. Mehdi soldier, I was busy for the past few days. Inshallah, I will respond to your post in detail tomorrow. Sorry for the delay[ quote name=mehdi soldier' date='May 14 2006, 01:06 PM' post='1104809] 4. The testimony of the Shaykhan against themselves In a chapter entitled "The virtues of Umar ibn al-Khattab", al-Bukhari wrote in his book: "When Umar was stabbed he felt great pain and Ibn Abbas wanted to comfort him, so he said to him, "O Commander of the Believers, you accompanied the Messenger of Allah and you were a good companion to him, and when he left you, he was very pleased with you. Then you accompanied Abu Bakr, and you were a good companion to him, and when he left you, he was pleased with you. Then you accompanied their companions and you were a good companion to them, and if you left them, they would remember you well." He said, "As for the companionship of the Messenger of Allah and his satisfaction with me, that is a gift that Allah- the Most High - has granted to me. As for the companionship of Abu Bakr and his satisfaction with me, that is a gift that Allah - Glory be to Him - has granted to me. But the reason you see me in pain is for you and your companions. By Allah, if I had all the gold on earth I would use it to ransom myself from the torture of Allah - Glory and Majesty be to Him - before I saw Him. [36] [36] Sahih, Bukhari, vol 2 p 201 He has also been quoted as saying the following, "I wish I was my family's sheep. They would have fattened me up to the maximum. When they were visited by friends, they would have killed me and roasted part of me, and made qadid (meat cut into strips and dried) from the other part of it, then they would have eaten me, and lastly, they would have relieved me with their bowle evacuation ... I wish I had been all that, rather than a human being." [37] [37] Minhaj as Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyya, vol 3 p 131 Hilyat al Awliya, Ibn Abi Nuaym, vol 1 p 52 Abu Bakr apparently said a similar thing to the above. He looked at a bird on a tree, then said, "Well done bird ... You eat the fruits, you stand on the trees and you are not accountable to anybody nor indeed can anybody punish you. I wish I was a tree by the road, and that a camel would come along and eat me. then relieve me with his bowel evacuation ... I wish that I had been all that, rather than a human being." [38] [38]Tarikh, Tabari, p 41 al Riyadh al Nadira, vol 1 p 134 Kanz al Ummal, p 361 Minhaj as Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyya, vol 3 p 120 He also said, I wish that my mother had not given birth to me ... I wish I was a straw in the mud. [39] These are some texts that I used just as examples and not for any specific reason. [39] Tarikh, Tabari, p 41 al Riyadh al Nadira, Tatabri, vol 1 p 134 Kanz al Ummal, p 361 Minhaj as Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyya, vol 3 p 120 And this is the Book of Allah which gives the good news to the worshippers of Allah who believe in Him: "Now surely the friends of Allah - they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve. Those who believe and fear (Allah). They shall have good news in this world's life and in the Hereafter, there is no changing in the words of Allah; that is the great achievement" (Holy Qur'an 10:62-64). Allah also says: "(As for) those who say, our Lord is Allah, then continue in the right way, the angels descend upon them, saying, "Fear not, nor be grieved, and receive good news of the garden which you were promised. We are your guardians in this world's life and in the Hereafter, and you shall have therein what your souls desire and you shall have therein what you ask for. An entertainment by the Forgiving, the Merciful" (Holy Our'an 41:30-32). How could the two Shaykhs. Abu Bakr and Umar, wish that they were not from the human race, which Allah honoured and put it above all His creation? Even the ordinary believer, who keeps on the straight path during his lifetime, receives the angels to tell him about his place in heaven, and that he should not fear the torture of Allah, nor be depressed about his legacy in life, and that he has the good news while he is in this life before reaching the life Hereafter. Then how could the great Companions, who are the best of creation after the Messenger of Allah (so we have been taught), wish they were excrement or a hair or a straw when the angels had given them the good news that they would go to heaven? They could not have wished to have all the gold on earth to ransom themselves from the torture of Allah before meeting Him. Allah - the Most High - said: "And if every soul that has done injustice had all that is in the earth, it would offer it for ransom, and they will manifestly regret when they see the chastisement and the matter shall be decided between them with justice and they shall not be dealt unjustly" (Holy Quran 10:54). Allah also said: "And had those who are unjust all that is in the earth and the like of with it, they would certainly offer it as ransom (to be saved) from the evil of the punishment on the day of resurrection; and what they never thought of shall become plain to them from Allah. And the evil (consequences) of what they wrought shall become plain to them, and the very thing they mocked at shall beset them" (Holy Qur'an 39:47-48). I wish sincerely that these Qur'anic verses did not involve great Companions like Abu Bakr al-Siddiq and Umar al-Faruq ... But I often pause when I read these texts so that I can look at some interesting aspects of their relations with the Messenger of Allah (saw), and how that relation went through many turmoils. They disobeyed his orders and refused him his wishes, even in the last moments of his blessed and honourable life, which made him so angry that he ordered them all to leave his house and to leave him. I also recall the chain of events that took place after the death of the Messenger of Allah, and the hurt and lack of recognition that afflicted his daughter al-Zahra. The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Fatimah is part of me, he who angers her angers me" [40]. [40] Sahih, Bukhari, vol 2 p 206 Fatimah said to Abu Bakr and Umar: I ask you in the name of Allah - the Most High - did you not hear the Messenger of Allah (saw) saying, "The satisfaction of Fatimah is my satisfaction, and the anger of Fatimah is my anger, he who loves my daughter Fatimah loves me, and he who satisfies Fatimah satisfies me, and he who angers Fatimah angers me?" They said, "Yes, we heard it from the Messenger of Allah (saw)." Then she said, "Therefore, I testify before Allah and the angels that you have angered me and did not please me, and if I meet the Prophet I will complain to him about you."[41] [41] al Imamah Was Siyasah, Ibn Qutaybah, vol 1 p 20 Muhammad Baqir as Sadr, Fadak in History, p 92 concernin the saqifa "election",its not an argument,its historically reality, the links below will take you through the controversy or rather the wrestlin durin the preceedings in the saqifa : http://www.al-islam.org/restatement/51.htm http://www26.brinkster.com/sdolshah1/notfk.htm and concernin the lady,i gave you an example.i didnt say she did wanted water and rasul (pbuh) ordered her to get from abu bakr and umar .i gave you an example that that could be a possibilty .so i requested that you give us the context.otherwise if the context is not known then those hadiths are fabricated because its a sunni accepted notion that rasul never left a successor.and its odd that he would do by tellin a lady while not tellin the rest of the ummah.the hadith is too narrowly accepted if its context is not provided. and i dont believe in sunni hadiths books and am not a hypocrite.the compilers of those books could be the hypocrites.i did not compiled those books that contain contradictory hadiths that give sunnis the room for cherry pickin.so why are you blamin me?whos now the hypocrite?
  11. It's been many days. Still, no sign of the actual tradition
  12. Where in the tradition is Umar's name even mentioned?
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