Mohamad_ali

Salam, I am skeptical of even the most authentic hadith books, let alone books that there is significant concern regarding their authenticity. My understanding is that this is not an authentic Hadith Book, they don't even know who the original author is. I am hesitant to even ref such books, because even if part of what they say is true, the lies are the reason they have been created. There are many truths in Bukhari, Muslim & Ahmad - the issue and is the scattering of lies. These lies did not come out of a vacuum & neither did the "controversial" hadith in this book. I would avoid it. https://iqraonline.net/dalail-al-imama-a-fabricated-shii-text-attributed-to-muhammad-b-jarar-al-tabari/ https://en.wikishia.net/view/Dala'il_al-imama_(book) The hadiths selected are those that are deemed more reliable from the book. However, this is not a "sahih" book - gradings will not be provided, and some non-sahih hadiths may be included. - http://www.imamiyya.com/hadith/kamal-deen The intent & purpose of my post was to highlight the manner with which we can deal with conflict within the Umma. There are many examples from both the prophetﷺ & the Immams (عليه السلام) that highlight this. During the Tabuk mission when an attempt was made on the prophets life - he did not call out by name those who tried to kill him. Why? Immam Ali (عليه السلام) and the example above, Immam Hassan (عليه السلام) dealing with MooWowWeWeHa(la) & Immam Hussein (عليه السلام) and his conduct in Karbala - why when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) was on their side did they not "fight"? Because the fight is for Islam - the goal is Islam - the purpose is Islam. If you can see the victory in Karbala then you can see the victory in all these acts. The conduct of all these events is the example for us to follow. That is after-all everything that we shi'a are about - the best example, the best imman is adherence to the way of the prophet (his sunna) and the conduct of the immams (عليه السلام). If we just want victory in this world then your best examples are AbuBakr, Ummar - who loved worldly power, Mooweweha(la) - the curser from the cursed tree & Khalid bin Waleed who killed for pleasure even muslims. The right path is the one that draws people to islam.

There have to be more than this - the Sunni books are full of black magic, lewd behavior, contradictions ... there must be Hadith that are accepted that just seem wrong in our books. I have a view that all books outside the Quran contain fabrications to a degree - some more than others. I just cant see how the powers on both sides of the sectarian divide (i mean political powers) didnt use the scholars & imams of their time (like they use the ones in our times) to change, adjust & manipulate information. Back then, hadith was how you changed how people saw the Quran. Thoughts?

The Tenants of faith are the same for Sunni & Shi'a, sect division is not what this forum is about. There are differences in practice but the principles are the same. There is not God but Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Mohamad is his Last Messenger ﷺ There will be a day of Judgement And we Shia have the belief that after the Prophet ﷺ there are 12 Infallible Imams from the AhlAlBayt (عليه السلام)

Salam, Seyed Fadalallah was a very special personality to me. I am lebanese and his simple approach to complex issues made islam accessible. That said I think there where 2 things that I could not reconcile and that moved me away from him to sistani. I am not a purest - but I believe in principles and logic that underpin all of Islam. 1. His interpretation of Sura Ab'bassa - in his opinion it was the Prophet ﷺ that A'bbas and that is completely inconsistent with my understanding of the nature of the prophetic mission, their character and how they are presented in the Quran. This was the primary reason I changed. 2. His ruling that all food from the ocean is halal - this creates inconsistencies - a snake or snail from the ocean is halal but from land it is not. Can't reconcile that logically. Thats not to say he is wrong its that I can not reconcile it logically. His position with respect to lady Fatima (عليه السلام) is not that much of a stretch for me, I can understand why people would question events like this. But this is not a foundational belief of islam. Anyone who tries to make it out to be is perverting the truth. And before you come at me with Ali(عليه السلام) and calipha, that is not dependent on just Hadith - it is clear from the Quran and is supported by Sunni & Shi'a hadith from many sources. Salam

I think we have to remind people that the Quran did not come to believers. That many of the great figures in islam started of as opponents. The Prophets ﷺ did not come to the righteous or monotheists, they came to the sinners. I am reminded of a story of a man who chained himself to the column in the mosque in Medina at the time of the prophet ﷺ. When asked why he said he had committed the worst of sins, and he wanted to die there. The prophet asked him, what have you do and he wouldn't say - it was that bad. To cut a long story short, the prophet asked his is you sin greater than the measure of the universe - and he said yes. Then he asked him is it greater that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) mercy? And to that he said no. He asked for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgiveness and the Prophet ﷺ confirmed that it was given. Islam is a mercy, If we remember the Mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) when we talk to people and are humbled by it ourselves we would treat the near and far very different.

Without getting deep, the practice has been seen as primarily a Shia practice in the past because the Shia had to hide their beliefs because the authorities sought them out and persecuted them. In most islamic societies Sunni are the majority and do not have to hide their beliefs because they were in power. In Saudi Arabia to this day it is believed that upto 15% of the population are Shia and they are persecuted heavily - to the extent that The branch of Imam Mohamed Bin Saud University in Fairfax, Virginia instructs its students that Shia Islam is a Jewish conspiracy They want Shia to pop their heads up so they can take them off, it basically as simple as that.

Why would you want to lower the Prophet ﷺ to the level of a regular? Why would this even be raised as an issue? Because in order to elevate the "Sahaba" you have to bring the Prophet ﷺ down - they can't reach his level no matter how much you try and change history. Now follow, in order that you can put the Umma in the hands of fallible men, you have to make infallibility laughable. In order that the "purafied" are discarded and made like other men you have to lower the esteem of the prophet ﷺ and his pure family (عليه السلام). Now in another thread we have proven to brother " Sunni Muslim" that infallibility is essential to the point that he proved it himself. Salam

Not true, prophets do perform it. The Rasoull ﷺ did not reveal his religion openly except to a very small group of people. This is not unusual among prophets ﷺ. But again I suspect this topic is like other topics you have initiated, you receive clear proofs but refuse to accept them. It can be frustrating, but I feel that it is a blessing. Instead of feeling like i'm being baited I thank you for refining our arguments and ensuring that the members of this community have a strong understanding of what it is and how to explain it.

There is a concerted effort to push a political agenda that radicalizes people, typically these people are vulnerable because of their circumstances. The biggest political threat to the "Arab World" is Iran. This is not actually true, Iran hasn't made any threats, its a US/Western agenda because they need to keep Iran under check to maintain the regional dominance of Israel. And though Israel has some awesome military power, unless it uses its nukes or get the USA to intervene it does not have the capacity to defeat Iran. This is further complicated by Hezballah and Hamas in Israelis back yard. So they needed to create division within the muslim community, how best to do that than creating tension between the sects. (despite what some might think the USA and Europe don't love Israel, they just love what it can do for them to maintain control of the "oil" supply). Look at how well funded the idiot Habib is in the UK. That movement has representatives in Australia who have been spewing hate and intolerance between Muslims for over a decade. This is an agenda to keep us divided. The Difference is those radical "Shia" are called out by Iran, major Shia scholars and even Nasrallah said they are British agents. On the other side the Sunni groups have found comfort in the hearts of Sunni leaders, not because they are bringing back a pure Islam, but because they are good at radicalizing enough people to support the broader agenda. They found young Syrian men with spoons and womens underwear in their pockets in Syrian because they were promised virgins and lunch with the prophet ﷺ. Its radicalism beyond reason - they recruited people from all over the world because they appeal to their emotional weakness. And today you have the social media battles - which are more dangerous that the real battles. They are influencing the minds of millions of young people all over the world. The number of Sunni and Shia repeating ignorant racist bigoted tropes is scary - without ever having met someone from the other group. The answer is always to present Islam as it was presented by The Prophet ﷺ and AhlAlBayt (عليه السلام). The only war we have to win is that of Iman - with that will come worldly rewards, but more importantly the rewards of the heavens. Salam . Just look at what Hezbollah was able to do in 2006. (as they see it). They are Shia. You see people today feeling nostalgic for Saddam, they are trying to recast him as a good muslim (sunni) who was toppled by those evil Shia (it was them in collaboration with the USA and Israel). And man do they wish he was still there.

He has a first rate eduction, he has no need for cursing, he has become more cunning in his insinuations. He went from saying "we are one umma and should respect each other even when we disagree" to "if you get offended by the TRUTH then thats your problem" its subtle but its still sharp. He was and made excuses for Habib who is a first rate clown, and at best an agent for some political purpose. The only purpose was to create fitna and he was well funded. 15 million, where did that come from? Our history is not centered around Abu Bakr, Ummar or the tragedies that befell the AhlAlBayt. If you believe thats our history you are mistaken. Our history is the demonstration of faith that our imams (عليه السلام) and Fatima (sa) showed. It is the patients of Ali(عليه السلام) and his support of Islam, before any desire for worldly recognition, it is the intellect of Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) to use the political structures to show the umma, even today, the wickedness of Muawiyah (la), it is the sacrifice imam Hussein (عليه السلام) was willing to make for the cause of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and his endurance at every point. It is the enduring activism of imam Ali ibn Hussein (عليه السلام) to never retreat from Allah even in the face of hardship, It is the intellectual power of the remaining imams (عليه السلام) to preserve islam for us. We are Shia't Ali (عليه السلام) we are not an offshoot or byproduct of hardship, we are the benefactors of Mohammad ﷺ and his pure family. Thats the strength of our beliefs, ISLAM. Lets not become like those whom we oppose. We don't need to bend the truth, it doesn't bend it breaks. Racist Tropes it was and its clear. We are not suppose to be hiding from the world and not telling the story of Islam, I am all for that. Within our own Shia community there are disagreements. Why would there not be among our sunni brothers and sisters. But do we highlight those or do we find our similarities and strengthen our bonds as muslims, while at the same time respecting our differences. We have a compelling narrative that is better aligned with Sunni beliefs than they know, we cant make them listen if we push them away. The Prophet ﷺ did not say kill the unbelievers or hide from them, his entire mission was to educate them and show them the truth behind Islam. If we are not doing the same then we are failing the sacrafice of Ahl AlBayt(عليه السلام).

He seems to be leaning more and more in that direction (Habib) - this is a new thing for him, I have always liked his perspective and still watch many of his fact based lectures. I changed dramatically when he endorsed "Lady of Heaven". The racist tropes and incitement is not whats needed, its inconsistent with the values we hold as Shia, and is inconsistent with the message of Islam and the mission of our prophet and Imams . There is this view forming among the Shia that we need "tougher" figures - and I fear this is going to end up exactly like the Sunni view of the three caliphs, Khalid Bin Walid, Ummar ibn al-ass and others where they need a makeover to make them fit a narrative. I prefer my pious, god fearing imams than make believe super heros.

I can't see that he was afraid once he was the leader, his actions are not driven by what the people will do or how they will act. He is driven by morality and consciousness of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). When we look at this is historical perspective we tend to taint them with "our historical view". Sunni see the actions of Ali(عليه السلام) as proving he was ok with the Caliphs and supported them (its clear he wasn't). We make excuses for our behavior by trying to justify it through his, we can't. Sometimes it is exactly what it is, he dignified her position as the prophets ﷺ wife, he gave us a model for future behavior and he is consistent in that behavior throughout his life. The Ali(عليه السلام) that many of our Shia want is not who Ali(عليه السلام) is. This is a man who was preoccupied with Allah (عليه السلام) not this world, he wasn't this huge powerhouse of a man - he was humble and soft spoken, an intellectual, a simple farmer who was there for islam whenever Islam needed it - it didn't matter if that was advising Ummar on Islamic rulings or maintaining the peace after Siffin. He said many times, his ability was nithing but the will of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). That Ali(عليه السلام) is the man I see. A'isha is inconsequential in this event, its him and his character.

Salam, I completely understand where you're coming from. And yes, I agree with you that she holds a dignified position as the Prophets ﷺ wife, and as a matter of respect for him we maintain the dignity of that position. I think that dignity is a private and public display - if Imam Ali (عليه السلام) can dignify her position then we can too. More broadly, as a community, I think we just need to let these people go. A'isha is inconsequential if not for Imam Ali (عليه السلام), MooAweehaha(la) the same ... the idea that they will continue to get in the way of this umma finding some common ground is detestable to me. Their impact is still being felt, and in order to finally destroy them we need to let them go to the grave yard of history. When a sunni asks me about A'isha I tell him the truth, she deserves the dignity of being the prophets ﷺ wife, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best. The Umyadd's are the cursed tree - I dont even mention them. I generally think its pointless to curse or insult - doesn't change their position with respect to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), he knows best and it doesn't change history.

You have no logical reason for your comment. It is a premeditated answer. You asked a question for which you don’t have the capacity to receive an answer. That is not to say that this topic or conversation is not a good one, I appreciate it for having given me and deeper insight into my own beliefs. What I mean to say is thank you, there is hassana for me in this. As for the answer to your question, you are fortunate because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) only judges us in accordance to our understanding. That you can’t comprehend the answer is hassana for you. If you do comprehend that may Allah open your heart to the truth. Salam

This is from WikiShia: Distortion of the Story By gossiping about this marriage, hypocrites and polytheists affronted the Prophet (s). In order to damage the Prophet's reputation, some hypocrites gossiped that the Prophet's desire for Zaynab caused the separation between Zayd and her.[24]24 They narrated various incoherent and sometimes contradictory stories in this regard. Some exegetes of the Qur'an mentioned these stories in their commentaries on the 37th verse of Quran 33.[25].[26] Studying the accounts about this event indicates that the first/seventh century exegetes, most probably made up these accounts based on the story of David and Uriya in the Old Testament.[27] Ibn Hajar pointed that some narrators of these accounts are unreliable.[28] However, Bosworth has explained the story of the Prophet's marriage to Zaynab based on these biased accounts.[29] Your struggling to find anything worthwhile. We, Shia't Ali (عليه السلام) have already addressed this one beautifully so non muslims can't take advantage of the Prophets ﷺ . If you have more I'd be more than happy to see them. Simply because in the process of studying them I am educated about the events and characteristics of the Prophets ﷺ life and it helps paint a clearer picture for me. This brother strengthens my Iman and further cements my believe that "imamah is essential" - I am on the right path Nshallah. For that I thank you - "be like a rose that gives its fragrance even to the hand that crush it" Ali Ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام)