Debate follower

Wa ‘alaykum salaam. I glad you didn’t add ‘successor’ too. Does the above really make sense????? So, can we say that Imam Reza (may Allah have mercy on him) succeeded Abbasid King even though he had passed away from Abbasid King? You have used the word King – So, was Imam Reza (may Allah have mercy on him) was meant to succeed as a King? And he had agreed to that? Please be kind to point out the relevant verse of the Blessed Qur’an indicating the appointment of Hz. Haroon (peace be upon him) as successor to Hz. Musa (peace be upon him). Why need for replacement? Was he not up to the job? Yes, that’ your opinion and you have full right to have that opinion.

Assalama alaykum my dear brother Ashvazdanghe Did you even attempt to read what I wrote? Or better still, read what you replied? In Fact Hz. Haroon (peace be upon him) was appointed as an assistant/helper to Hz. Musa (peace be upon him)! deceased successor? You can stretch it as you like to fit it as you wish.

^ a small correction - he never took back his claim to prophet hood.* He also claimed he was the mahdi, and a reappearance (buruz) of the Prophet Muhammad (peace blessing be upon him) but in different body, also that he was Jesus Christ (second coming ) and the Hindu god Krishna returned to earth. * About 5% breakaway sect believe that he took back his claim of prophet hood.

Wa 'alaykum salaam. The word mawla can mean many things but LEADER! It certainly can certainly mean friend as well Guardian or Counsellor besides other meanings. Let's see what Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) interprets it as: Sermon 92: Leave me and find someone else ... When people decided to swear allegiance at Amir al-mu'minin's hand after the murder of ‘Uthman, he said: “Leave me and seek someone else. We are facing a matter which has (several) faces and colours, which neither hearts can stand nor intelligence can accept. Clouds are hovering over the sky, and faces are not discernible. You should know that if I respond to you, I would lead you as I know and would not listen to the utterance of any speaker or the reproof of any reprover. If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would abdicate I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief.” Sermon 92 Nahul Balagha 1) Would any one who is Divinely appointed as a successor relinquish/abdicate this position to follow anybody people chose!!!!!! 2) Would say: "I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs." Then advise that: "I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief" Mawla can mean Counsellor ,Advisor, Guardian, Protector etc. I have yet see it mean a Leader! Nice try, though.

Brother Muslim2010 has blundered here BIG TIME claiming that the Blessed Qur’an: 1) Confirms that Hz. Haroon (peace be with him) as successor of Hz. Musa (peace be with him) - This is completely wrong as Hz. Haroon (peace be with him) NEVER succeeded Hz. Musa (peace be with him) as Hz. Haroon (peace be with him) died earlier with while Hz. Musa (peace be with him) being alive – so no succession occurred!!!!!! Allah Almighty can NEVER say that in the Blessed Qur’an – Allah Almighty knows the future. How can Allah Almighty state this when HE KNOWS THAT HAROON WILL PASS AWAY BEFORE MUSA!!!!!!!!!!! The fact is Yehoshua Bin Nun Tribe of Ephraim succeeded Hz. Musa (peace be with him)!!!!!! 2) Verse 90 of Surah Ta-Ha NEVER confirms or attests that “Children of Israel should follow Haroon in succession to Mosa” وَلَقَدۡ قَالَ لَهُمۡ هَـٰرُونُ مِن قَبۡلُ یَـٰقَوۡمِ إِنَّمَا فُتِنتُم بِهِۦۖ وَإِنَّ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنُ فَٱتَّبِعُونِی وَأَطِیعُوۤا۟ أَمۡرِی ۝٩٠ walaqad qāla lahum hārūnu min qablu yāqawmi innamā futintum bihi wa-inna rabbakumu l-raḥmānu fa-ittabiʿūnī wa-aṭīʿū amr Aaron had already warned them beforehand, “O my people! You are only being tested by this, for indeed your ˹one true˺ Lord is the Most Compassionate. So follow me and obey my orders.” The above ayah relates to time when Hz. Musa (peace be with him) had gone for 40 days/nights to receive the Commands from Allah Almighty on Mount Tor. Hz. Musa (peace be with him) had left Hz. Haroon (peace be with him) as his deputy while he was away. Since he was appointed as a deputy Hz. Haroon (peace be with him) is asking the people follow him and his orders and not of those who were up to mischief!!!!! Just as the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) on this expedition to Tabuk had left Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) behind as his deputy!!! Nothing to do with succession to the blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) after his passing away!!

Assalama alaykum - just a feedback as Sunni stance was put forward.

In my inter-action with Shias and reading some of their literature I understand your statement other way around. Shias primarily concentrate on Imamate and then refer to the blessed Prophet’s (peace and blessings be upon him) life events to make it relevant to the concept of Imamate. Yes, I would agree you 100% the Sunni religious education is not history-centric rather concentrates solely on Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Bear in mind history has many versions. Each ‘group’ interprets or sees history through their biased lens. There is real history of real events. Then interpretations are given by each side of what they think happened putting on their own spin. Each side can interpret the facts to suit their narratives. History is written by the winners, goes the old saying. But that’s not entirely true. The losers also write their version of what happened, with a different spin. And to self-console themselves they tend exaggerate their history. There is a good book on this topic. I suggest you read it - ‘Any Version of History is just a (hi)STORY’ written by Saeed Mubarak

Assalama alaykum As an outsider (Sunni) looking in, I find article very appropriate and to the point. I have never found the life of the blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) central to Shi’ism. It always plays a secondary role. Most it gets mentioned is around incident of Ghadir Khumm or other situations which enhance Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib’s (may Allah be pleased with him) status. The most who get mentioned or heard about loud and clear are Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib, Imam Hussein, Imam Mahdi, Lady Fatimah az-Zahra, and other Imams (may Allah be pleased with all listed). Case in point, if one looks at the top of Shiachat page, on the left-hand side corner – it clearly says Ali! Either this most definitely refers to Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) or the boss of Shiachat (I read this somewhere here). The blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is definitely side-lined. Assalama alaykum brother Cool, the word ‘Mawla’ is not that difficult to understand. The blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was always very precise/explicit/unambiguous in the words he uttered (let’s not get into debate about ‘Mawla’. It’s been done with and will be done time after time – each sticking to his version).

Read these golden words of advice from very articulate resident doctor on Shiachat at least seven times very slowly get the wisdom in these words. If you marry a woman who life has not given decent opportunities and promise her and do give her a comfortable life and companionship. You will earn her gratitude and respect. She should and will reciprocate in kind. And if Allah Almighty blesses you with children, this will change your life. Being a father is a great feeling and a fulfilment of life. And your parents will be so happy to have grandchildren to love and cherish, and as they say ‘pass on the family name’. May Allah Almighty make everything easy and ‘sweet’ for you.

In Sha Allah you WILL WIN. Don't be too alone by yourself and keep busy. Shaytaan the cursed always attacks when the mind in not in use. There is saying in English: "idle mind is devil's workshop"

I had done my search on SC before my post for your kind information. That’s the reason I posted nearly 10 hours after your post. The last discussion on this was in 2015. In fact, it was brother Abu Nur who had told the OP that this is also in Shia literature. Let any fair-minded person read the above. They will definitely conclude that you were having a dig and implying Sunni’s have ‘objectionable’ narrations in their books. And the second sentence confirms the mood you were in. If you were not aware that this narration is in Shia literature too, then your dig gets acceptable as a banter within debate. But by you knowing that this is also in Shia narrations, that too, attributed to the great Imam as-Sadiq (may Allah have mercy on him), your challenge implied as if this is only Sunni narration. This was unfair, smacks of unfair tactics. What if he didn’t know that it is also in your books. Surely, you would have played this around him upsetting his debate. Tactics, tactics – games people play. Now, you are patronising! I didn’t mean that you making fun of Sunnis on the general. At that point you were having a dig. Similarly, you have a lot of stupid stuff in your hadith literature which you won’t touch with a barge pole. And I would feel silly to ask you if you believed in it. It would me more embarrassing for me ask you if you believed it, well knowing that the same material in ‘my’ own books! Get the gist? Of course, I can take that. Diagram? Surely, provided that you are good at drawing. There is a saying: “When you have dug yourself in a hole, stop digging.

No brother, Sunni Fiqh. Ishmail Ali As-Shukur and I are Sunnis discussing Sunni Fiqh on Shia Site

To start with, you didn’t know that this material was in your own books attributed to the good Imam as-Sadiq (may Allah have Mercy on him) supported by two eminent scholars!!!! So had a dig at ‘other side’s expense. I am not saying that you are wiggling out of what you believe. That’s not the issue. Maybe I am in same boat as you. You were trying to have a (good) laugh at Sunni’s expense but just found that you have scored own goal!!! Even brother Abu Nur, who normally is very staid got into the ‘mood’. By saying “if”, are trying to wiggle out that you were not trying make of fun of Sunnis - Meow, meow... I don’t have to prove that you believe this narration to be true, your stance already showed what you believe. It’s okay, things do happen and now done and dusted. Cheer up Wa 'alaykum brother Cool - I hope all's well with you and your very dear family. In sha Allah I'll respond later. Tired zzz

The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course 285 Al-Baqarah There is NO mention of belief in IMAMS/IMAMATE! – a core Belief in Shia Islam. And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger will be in the company of those blessed by Allah: the prophets, the people of truth, the martyrs, and the righteous—what honourable company! 69 An-Nisa There is NO mention of belief in IMAMS/IMAMATE! – a core Belief in Shia Islam.

So, it got into your books on the authority of Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (may Allah have Mercy on him) and and prominent Shia scholars agreed to it by Shia(il)logic!!!! I know it hurts to score an own goal Now you are trying to wiggle out from this. Now that you have scored it, enjoy it. You over smartly tried to throw a pie on others but it landed on your own face. Just tasted it. Have you ever seen them hitting their heads!