Cherub786

I have read the holy Quran, I never came across anything that speaks of God as “He is all” “He is nothing” “There is nothing personal about Him” On the contrary, the conception of God taught in the Quran is an intensely personal being, actively involved in human affairs, having personal relationships with various human individuals and even collective relationships with entire nations of people. He exhibits a variety of what we call “emotions” like happiness, fury, jealousy, forbearance, and so forth.

ان شاء الله عز وجل If I am blessed with advance age I fully intend to lead an active life. Presently, mainstream culture celebrates youth way too much. Old people seem to be hiding, they need to come out and lead. They should have the wisdom and the experience. Islam teaches us to respect elders not because they sit around all day doing nothing, but because they are active members, rather leaders, of the community. They don’t let age prevent them from preaching and leading dynamic lives. If there is a social crisis or moral evils prevalent, they should be at the forefront battling it with their fiery words. How many of our Prophets, Saints and other heroes were elderly people, especially advanced in age? Why should only young people have that fire within them to do something great in life?

Where is this taught in the Quran?

You also said So in my subsequent posts I quoted Islamically sound arguments to justify my theology that God is a person and is a personal God, thereby refuting your allegation that my views about God don’t sound Islamic. At any rate, do you at least admit that in Islamic theology God is a person and is a personal God?

Exactly. God is a an individual, a being, therefore, He is a shakhs. How does that refute anything?

My English isn’t poor, rather you have no clue how to read and understand a dictionary. A word in a dictionary sometimes has multiple definitions, such as the word “person”. There can be a primary, secondary even tertiary meaning of the same word. So “a man, woman, or child” is only one of the possible definitions of “person”, it is by no means the only definition. For example, on dictionary.com you have the philosophical definition of person: “a self-conscious or rational being”. According to this definition, God according to Islam is a person, because He is a “self-conscious being”.

That’s exactly what I’m saying, Muslims aren’t free in Europe, especially the countries you mentioned (Netherlands, France, Belgium, Slavic countries). But the one country in Europe where Muslims are relatively free to practice their religion is Great Britain. There are no bans on hijab, niqab or burqa in Britain, mosques are flourishing, political parties actively try to reach out to Muslims instead of treating them like pariahs, there is a huge Halal meat industry, no calls to ban infant male circumcision or animal sacrifice on Eid al-Qurban. So the best places for Muslims to live in the West are North America and Great Britain. New Zealand too, but I'm not entirely sure about Australia. In short, all the Anglo countries are the best places for Muslim minorities.

وعليك السلام It depends on which specific age range we are talking about. Elderly is a broad category, but usually means age of retirement (65) and over. Most people in the beginning phase of being elderly are still physically able to lead an active life, yet they choose to retire and relax. That is surely their right, but as the topic of this thread indicates, how can it be said they are living fulfilling lives? And living an active life doesn’t necessarily mean living a physically demanding life. You can still be active in society, fight for some cause, be part of a movement, and so forth, without having to strain yourself physically. Most of the strain will probably be mental, but there are plenty of elderly people who prove that an active life is possible at that age. How can we determine whether a specific elder contributed the same amount of service to society that he is receiving after retirement? IMHO, most of these elders are receiving more than what they contributed. The baby boomers are a massive generation. In the West, there is a demographic imbalance which is putting undue strain on younger generations, which don’t have the same financial security as the baby boomers. If you look at social security for the retiring baby boomers, it has been guaranteed for them and is a massive burden on younger taxpayers who probably won’t receive the same kind of benefits by the time they are old enough to retire. The baby boomers exercise disproportionate political influence, their political and economic interests are the priorities of the ruling class, since they are demographically larger and vote in droves compared to younger people. You speak as though work is a bad thing. Why shouldn’t people work until they die? Obviously, the older you are the less physically demanding tasks you should be expected to perform. But I for one would like to see these 80 year olds get out of bed every morning on time, put on their clothes and go to work. Perhaps many of them shouldn’t be driving but they can take the bus. Heck, working and being active may even increase their longevity. Yes, and like I said, old people can still lead active and meaningful lives without the physical strain. I wish more of them would. If they don’t want to work at a job and make money, thus not being a burden on the rest of taxpaying society, then at least the religious among them should offer a lot more worship. Islam does teach that the older you get and the more free time you have, the more you should prepare for the Afterlife through worship. Islam definitely frowns upon old people just watching TV all day or reading the newspaper. You’re going to die soon, you more than anyone else need to prepare to meet your Maker, if you aren’t motivated to go to the mosque, recite the Quran more, offer more nawafil, etc., then that is very bad. Worship isn’t that physically demanding either. If an old person can’t pray standing then Allah has made it easy by allowing them to pray sitting, even seated on a chair if they can’t sit on the ground. But I want to see more old Muslim men at the mosque, they should be dominating the mosque, why aren't they? And I also want to see more old people, if they refuse to work at a job, to at least be part of some religious, political or social movement. I don’t agree with most of today’s social and political movements. But why are all these protests, political movements, people courting arrest out of civil disobedience, etc., 99% young people? Where are the elders? The elders in the 1960s were very active in the Civil Rights movement. They had character. You had people in their 80s and 90s going to prison for a cause they believed in. Now where are the old people going to jail for a political or religious cause? Just walking their dog because they’re lonely? You’re lonely because you don’t do anything meaningful, why would anyone want to spend time with you?

Isn’t this what you said: I just refuted you and have decisively proven that according to Islam God is necessarily a person. I would argue belief in God’s personhood is the most fundamental concept of Islamic theology.

This is explicit proof that Islam teaches Allah is a person شخص وَلاَ شَخْصَ أَغْيَرُ مِنَ اللَّهِ وَلاَ شَخْصَ أَحَبُّ إِلَيْهِ الْعُذْرُ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ بَعَثَ اللَّهُ الْمُرْسَلِينَ مُبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنْذِرِينَ وَلاَ شَخْصَ أَحَبُّ إِلَيْهِ الْمِدْحَةُ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الْجَنَّةَ No person is more jealous of his honor than Allah, and no person is more fond of accepting an excuse than Allah, on account of which He has sent Messengers, announcers of glad tidings and warners; and no person is more fond of praise than Allah on account of which Allah has promised Paradise (Sahih Muslim) In this blessed Hadith, the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم affirmed the shakhsiyyah or personhood of Allah three times.

Qiyaas is an exercise of the aql. So that doesn’t really make sense.

Does he reject the caliphates of sayyidina Abi Bakr, Umar and Uthman رضى الله عنهم? And does he bear enmity to them and consider them usurpers? If the answer is yes, then he surely isn’t a Sunni.

Since you revere Cambridge, let me quote the Cambridge dictionary. It says that person is “used when describing someone’s character” for example “she’s an extremely kind person”. Now I suppose you will deny God has a character. “Person” is also a grammatical construct: “used in grammar to describe the verbs and pronouns that refer to the different people in a conversation. The first person ("I" or "we") refers to the person speaking, the second person ("you") refers to the person being spoken to and the third person ("he", "she", "it", or "they") refers to another person or thing being spoken about or described:” Now this definition is very good, because it adds the fact that in third person what is being referred to or spoken about is not necessarily always a person but a “thing” too. For example, if I’m speaking about a rock, which isn’t a person, “it is very hard”. But according to Cambridge dictionary, first and second person can only refer to a person. Now if we read the Quran, God speaks in the first person plenty of times, and God is spoken to in the second person plenty of times. That is decisive proof, according to Cambridge, that God is a person. A non-person doesn’t say “I” and a non-person is not addressed as “you”.

Merciful, loving, generous, patient, vengeful, jealous, happy, willing and so forth, these are all expressed qualities of God which can lead to only one conclusion, He is a person. By ascribing these qualities to God, it is obvious Islam conceives of Him as a person. So on what basis did you deny that Islam teaches God is a person?

Please explain in light of the Islamic worldview (not your personal theology or lack thereof) how or why God is not a person. If by tashbih you mean God's immanence, as the clip from Murad is using that term, then I have no issue with it, but we avoid the term "tashbih" because it literally means resemblance. God is both transcendent and immanent. These are reflected in His Names al-Batin and al-Zahir respectively. That God is a person and is personal is part of His immanence.