Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

Dave follower of The Way

Advanced Member
  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Dave follower of The Way

  1. The Prophet in the Hebrew Scriptures says about the suffering of the coming one 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. Later he explains that this suffering was part of God's plan 10 Yet it was the Lord’s (God's) will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied. There is even an allusion here to the fact that the death of Jesus the Messiah was not the end. He have length of days and see the light of life even though he was going to be crushed, suffer and become an offering.
  2. Thinking about the suffering and martyrdom of Jesus the Messiah causes us to remember a poem the Prophet king David wrote 1000 years before Jesus the Messiah come. He was writing about his own rejection by people of his time, but much of what he says is reflected in the suffering and rejection of Jesus the Messiah. It is interesting that the rejection and murder of the prophets is a common theme in the Qur'an. Here is part of Pslam (zebur) 22 12 Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. 13 Roaring lions that tear their prey open their mouths wide against me. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted within me. 15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. 16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. 17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. 18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.
  3. thank you for these lovely stories of your prophet. It shows him as a loving family man with good relationships with his grandchildren. Something we can all aspire to. I can see how Husayn can be from your prophet - a blood line, but I can't see how he could be from his grandchild. Could you explain that to me?
  4. I have had a look at some of the posts about the 12th Imam and the Sun behind the clouds and his occultation. As a follower of Jesus, I couldn't but help to think about the going away of Jesus the Messiah. HIs ascension was witnessed by a large group of people. See Lukes account in Acts chapter 1 7 He said to them: ‘It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.’ 9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 ‘Men of Galilee,’ they said, ‘why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.’ Jesus went into the clouds - a common analogy in Jewish thought of the time of God's presence. Where is Jesus the Messiah since his ascension? He is in God's presence sitting in a place of authority waiting to return. When Jesus the Messiah talked about his 'going away' he comforted his followers. There is a long discourse in John chapters 14, 15 and 16, where Jesus the Messiah talks about many things and one of them is his "going away" - here are a few verses: John 1425 ‘All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. 28 ‘You heard me say, “I am going away and I am coming back to you.” If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. John 16 5 but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, “Where are you going?” 6 Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. Jesus the Messiah says that his "going away" is good for his followers. He will go away and send the Holy Spirit to guide and support his followers. He will also send his peace so they will be able to live in a troubled world at peace and without fear. When Jesus the Messiah was on earth his was limited to being in one place at one time - like all of us. But his going away would mean that his spirit, the Holy Spirit. the Spirit of Truth would come to all Jesus' followers in every place and every time. It is true, Jesus the Messiah's going away means that now, today, each follower of Jesus has Jesus living in them through the Holy Spirit. Our ways and thoughts and actions can be controled and guided by Jesus himself! He went away, but we don't need to ask what is he doing. Each of his followers knows the answer to that question because he is living in them and they live in him.
  5. The writters of the Stories of Jesus the Messiah were writing at a time when crucifixion was so common place that they didn't have to describe the process or the pain and shame it caused. Mark 15 recounts the event 24 And they crucified him. Dividing up his clothes, they cast lots to see what each would get. 25 It was nine in the morning when they crucified him. 26 The written notice of the charge against him read: the king of the jews. 27 They crucified two rebels with him, one on his right and one on his left. Here is another response as I thought about the suffering of the Messiah.
  6. The suffering of Jesus the Messiah was not just on the cross but also in his unjust trial. The Roman soldiers mocked him Matthew 27 27 Then the governor’s soldiers took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers round him. 28 They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, 29 and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand. Then they knelt in front of him and mocked him. ‘Hail, king of the Jews!’ they said. 30 They spat on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. 31 After they had mocked him, they took off the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him. And John 19 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. 2 The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe 3 and went up to him again and again, saying, ‘Hail, king of the Jews!’ And they slapped him in the face. 4 Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews gathered there, ‘Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him.’ 5 When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, ‘Here is the man!’ I painted this picture in respone to these verses
  7. Could you give me the reference for this quote? If the 'I' and the 'me' is God, this is putting Hussain almost as equal with God. It would seem that you are introducing a kind of bi diety.
  8. I'm not sure where this fits into the life of Jesus the Messiah. Karbala is quite a distance from Palestine where Jesus spent his ministry. Yes it is good to share the life of a person we love. Recognising the extent of his love for us makes me overflow with thankfulness and rejoicing. How do I see his love demonstrated it is in his self humbling and self giving even to the point of suffering, death and martyrdom. Mark 10 Shows us that Jesus the Messiah saw his humiliation, servant atitude and death as a means to an end. whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.’ The death of Jesus the Messiah paid a price, a ransom, so we could be free from the clutches of fear, death and the evil one. His love was so vast, sometimes I wonder what my love is in return.
  9. This is a really useful comment you have made. I appreciate you reaching out to me in this way, may you be blessed as you seek my blessing. Your comment shows that the understanding of Injil and Gospel or New Testament is different in Muslim theology and Christian theology. Christians have never seen 'The Gospel' as a book or message given to Jesus to pass on to his followers, in the way the Qur'an is explained in Muslim understanding to have been 'given' or 'passed down'. The reason is that Jesus the Messiah, himself, is the Word of God. He came down among us from God as the living presence of the message and action of God among people. Looking at Jesus the Messiah his miraculas birth, his life and teaching, his sacrificial death and powerful resurrection culminating in his assencion to heaven with a promise of his return as Judge in Power, all these things are God's message to us. All these things demonstarte God's action of love to redeem and rescue a lost humanity. A man was walking in the deasert and fell down a dry well. The more he tried to get out the more desparate he became. Suddenly there was a noise above him and a man looked down. "I can see you need help" he said. and threw down a book to him - 'How to escape from dry wells' However, the more he read the book and tried to do the ideas the more he realised that he couldn't do the things in the book and his situation got worse. Some time passed and he heard another noise. This time three people looked down at him. We can see you need help they said together. One of us is very strong, another is very gentle and the other very brave. The brave one tied a rope around his waist and the strong one and the gentle one lowered him into the hole. When the brave one reached the man he tied the rope around the man and the strong one and the gentle one lifted him out. Just then the sand around the hole fell in and the brave one was buried and died. The gentle one and the strong one started to dig and after some time they lifted the body of the brave one out. The gentle one breathed into him and the dead body became alive! What rejoicing there was that the man had been rescued and the three friends were reunited.
  10. Hasani - Thank you for this insight and for your careful links with the 'original' and the 'new'. Yes Jesus the Messiah spoke Aramaic (and most probably Greek and Hebrew too) The translation you have posted has many similarities in ideas and concepts to the text we use in English today. It is clear that any translation misses out on the richness of the original language. It is not just Aramaic and Arabic which have many depths of meaning. All languages are hard to translate. I would suggest that although Jesus may have taught the prayer in Aramaic the writers of the Injil wanted as many people as possible to understand the prayer and the teaching of Jesus the Messiah. So, they translated it into Greek which was the language of the people. Translation is really important Because God wants to speak to us in our heart language - no language is 'God's language', rather all languages are gifts from God to be used for his praise and glory. So as we end the prayer with a song of praise, which most probably was added later, we can know God rejoices to hear our worship in our mother tongue. For to God belongs the kingdom, all power, and glory, now and forever more!
  11. The prophet in the Hebrew Bible thought about the representive who would suffer and saw this person as going forward to receive the ultimate sacrifice. Isaiah 504 The Sovereign Lord has given me a well-instructed tongue, to know the word that sustains the weary. He wakens me morning by morning, wakens my ear to listen like one being instructed. 5 The Sovereign Lord has opened my ears; I have not been rebellious, I have not turned away. 6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting. 7 Because the Sovereign Lord helps me, I will not be disgraced. Therefore have I set my face like flint, and I know I will not be put to shame. We see here how there is a willingness to accept the forthcoming suffering, knowing that God would ultimatly honour this willing sacrifice. It is interesting that as Luke tells the story of Jesus the Messiah going to Jerusalem for the last time he uses this phrase Luke 9 51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem. It is as if Luke is drawing a parallel between these two passages.
  12. https://saednews.com/en/post/imam-hussain-the-blood-of-allah-and-his-uprising The story of the last days of Hussain reflect a recognition of his forthcoming fate and martyrdom.
  13. There are places in the Hebrew Bible where Suffering is seen as one person suffering in the place of others. Isaiah 534 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. This passage describes a representative suffering and experiencing pain and affliction for the sake of others. Notice how many times the word "our" is used. God puts the sins of those who have left the straight path on this representative. Instead of the sheep becoming the sacrifice this representative is wounded for the straying sheep. They can then receive peace and healing.
  14. Yes, Thank you for this! It is interesting how this story can be read from a Shia perspective. I wonder in the Shia narative who the Vineyard owner is? The traditional understanding by the followers of Jesus is that the Vineyard Owner is God who sends the prophets, who are rejected and he eventually sends his "Son" who is killed.
  15. Jesus the Messiah told a story about suffering and martyrdom. This story is recounted in all three of the Synoptic Gospels giving it great authority. After Jesus the Messiah told this story the religious leaders were angry because they understood he was telling the story about them. I wonder what we make of this story? Here is the way Mark recounted the story. (Mark chapter 12) Jesus then began to speak to them in parables: ‘A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall round it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 2 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3 But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4 Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. 5 He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. 6 ‘He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, “They will respect my son.” 7 ‘But the tenants said to one another, “This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.” 8 So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard. 9 ‘What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.
  16. Greetings to my Muslim brothers and sisters at the start of this month of Muharrem. This month, as Shia Muslim people, you will be thinking of suffering and martyrdom. These are crucial topics for people of faith. There is much in the Hebrew Bible about the coming suffering one. Also, when we look at the teaching of Jesus the Messiah, we see him giving teaching about the role of sacrifice and suffering in God’s plan. In the next few days, I would like to share something of my understanding of the Suffering of Jesus the Messiah. Thank you for the privilege to share with you, my Muslim friends, my perspective. Here is something Jesus the Messiah said John 1513 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. And Paul reflecting on these words said Romans 56 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
  17. The book of Daniel was writen hundreds of years before Jesus the Messiah lived on earth. The verses I have quoted are found, as I have posted them, in the Hebrew Bibles published by Jewish people who would not endorse my understanding of who Jesus the Messiah is. As I think of "The Son of Man" coming in the clouds the prophesy about the End Times (OP) comes to mind. Found in Injil Revelation chapter 1 To him (Jesus) who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father – to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. 7 ‘Look, he (Jesus) is coming with the clouds,’ and ‘every eye will see him, even those who pierced him’; and all peoples on earth ‘will mourn because of him.’ So shall it be! Amen.
  18. This is so interesting! You have understood the role of God's Spirit in helping us to live a godly life. Who is the Spirit from God? Is it a created being? Is it separate from God? Let's ask a question. What is it that gives a human life? - It is the spirit within us that gives life to the flesh and bones we call our body. When the spirit of a person leaves the body they die. So when we talk about the Spirit of God we are talking about the very essence of God. A spirit from God would be just like us a falable created being, but the Spirit of God is God himeslf in all his power and holiness. What a privilage to have this resource available in us to help us resist temptaion and live righteously.
  19. Again you are exhibiting your ignorance of the scolarship around the original texts of the New Testament. Many scolars are now of the opinion that the books of the New Testament were writen very close to the events they describe and the life, death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah. The desruction of Jerusalem in 70CE is an important historical date and by studying the documents of the New Testament it is clear that the vast majority of them were written before this event. That means within 40 years of the events recorded and within the life time of eye witnesses of the life of Jesus the Messiah. These writings give us an accurate picture of what Jesus the Messiah said and did and how his early followers understood his teaching and life in the light of his death and resurrection. I hope you will take the time to read this teaching in the New Testament thoughtfully and consider the truth there.
  20. HI there - I have heard your comments many times before. However, they are a great insult to the painstaking and careful work of the translators of the New Testament down the centuries. We have in our possesion, and available to translators, over 5,000 documents with part or all of the New Testament in Greek, the original language it was writen in, some of them going back to the 2nd Century CE, within 100 years of the first writing. From what you have written I can see you have no knowledge of the translation process of the New Testament, nor of how or when it was written. Although I may find the Qur'an in English hard to understand, I would never insult the translators. Their job is hard and complex and through their skill I can understand something of the original Arabic. The Injil was originally written in Greek because the writers wanted God's words and the life and teaching of Jesus the Messiah to be understood by the common people right accross the known world. This desire for God's word to be freely understood and available to people across the world in their own language is an ongoing process with the New Testament or parts of it translated into well over 3,000 languages. These translations take much time and effort, of a skillfull and well trained group of people, including native speakers, producing a trustworthy translation that reliably passes on the meaning of the original Greek texts. This enables many people to read and understand God's word for themselves.
  21. Prayer is very easy. As a follower of Jesus the Messiah I understand prayer as a conversation with God. Just talk to God in your own words and language. Open your heart to him. Say thank you for what he has done. Worship him for his greatness. Tell him the things on your heart: joys, sorrows, questions. Then wait in silence he will come and meet you. Each day, I where ever I am, at any time, I talk to God and know his help and presence. This is what Jesus the Messiah taught about prayer (Matthew Chapter 7) 7 ‘Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 ‘Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
  22. Hi there @layman- I looked up Muttaqi/Muttaqun a pious and righteous person who fears Allah much (abstains from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allah has forbidden) and loves Allah much (performs all kinds of good deeds which Allah and his Messenger (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) have ordained) This is quite a challenge for anyone! A righteous person defined as Fearing Allah - by not doing bad things, and Loving Allah - by doing good things Which comes first? Understanding the Qur'an and so becoming righteous, or being righteous and so being able to understand the Qur'an? This statement means that the vast majority of people who read the Qur'an have no hope of understanding it. You are saying that unless I look at the Tafsir of Ahle bait, I am unable to understand or benefit from the Qur'an. This is making God's 'Revelation' inaccessable. Thanks @Cool What you have written seems quite a hard possition to be in. Here is God's book but its meaning is hiden from us. Is this what God would want? Again I want to suggest that When God speaks, he speaks so we will understand. He wants to communicate with us. God has spoken through his written word - the Hebrew Bible and the Trustworthy Injil. He has also spoken through his living Word - Jesus the Messiah. In addition he speaks today through his powerful Holy Spirit who comes to us and helps us to understand. When I read the Bible, I ask God for his help to understand. I know that God wants me to hear and obey so he is not going to speak in secret or in a way that we can not understand. See this word from God proclaimed by the Prophet Isaiah in chapter 45 18 For this is what the Lord says – he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited – he says: ‘I am the Lord, and there is no other. 19 I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob’s descendants, “Seek me in vain.” I, the Lord, speak the truth; I declare what is right. If we read the Bible seeking God and his way, he will speak to us. With the help of God's Holy Spirit we will be able to understand his truth and follow the Right Path.
  23. Hi there my Friend Thanks for all your comments and the information you have given about end times and the role of nations intoday's world. I want to comment about the suggestion you make. You suggest that Jesus the Messiah is either "The Son of Man" or "The Son of God". You also say that "the Son of Man" is different from Jesus the Messiah. A person can have two titles but still be the same person. So I can see no reason why Jesus the Messiah can not be both "The Son of Man" and "The Son of God". It is clear when you read the life events of Jesus the Messiah, as recorded by faithful people in the Trustworthy Injil, that Jesus used the title "Son of Man" to refer to himself many times. All four accounts recount Jesus the Messiah using thes words. They are a reference to a vision the prophet Daniel saw 13 ‘In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days (God) and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshipped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Jesus the Messiah was linking himself with this person who would have all authority and reign forever. When Jesus the Messiah calls himself "The Son of Man" he is inviting us to be among those who recognise his authority and worship him.
  24. God is not concerned about the elequence of our words, he is concerned about the atitude of our heart. Jesus the Messiah tells a story about a man who prays with elequent words and a man who just asks God for mercy because he recognises his sin https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NIVUK Jesus the Messiah says the man who recognises his sin will be heard. Jesus the Messiah also talks about how to pray. He tells us to beware that we don't use lots of words and repeat phrases. (The Trustworthy Injil Matthew chapter 6) 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. I think you recognise that because you go on to say that God knows our thoughts. God puts no condition on repentence, He is looking for a heart that is sorry for the sin and shame. When someone turns to God from their sin he doesn't leave them empty. He sends his Holy Spirit to come and live inside the person. This means that after repentence God is there through Jesus the Messiah to help us resist temptation and to move forward. 2 Corinthians Chapter 517 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, that person is a new creation, the old has gone, the new is here! Jesus the Messiah offers forgivness and new life. When we repented did we ask to live in Jesus the Christ and for him to live in us? Thank you for your prayers - may the blessings and peace of God be with you too.
  • Create New...