Dave follower of The Way

The Prophet in the Hebrew Scriptures says about the suffering of the coming one 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. Later he explains that this suffering was part of God's plan 10 Yet it was the Lord’s (God's) will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied. There is even an allusion here to the fact that the death of Jesus the Messiah was not the end. He have length of days and see the light of life even though he was going to be crushed, suffer and become an offering.

Thinking about the suffering and martyrdom of Jesus the Messiah causes us to remember a poem the Prophet king David wrote 1000 years before Jesus the Messiah come. He was writing about his own rejection by people of his time, but much of what he says is reflected in the suffering and rejection of Jesus the Messiah. It is interesting that the rejection and murder of the prophets is a common theme in the Qur'an. Here is part of Pslam (zebur) 22 12 Many bulls surround me; strong bulls of Bashan encircle me. 13 Roaring lions that tear their prey open their mouths wide against me. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted within me. 15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. 16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. 17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. 18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.

thank you for these lovely stories of your prophet. It shows him as a loving family man with good relationships with his grandchildren. Something we can all aspire to. I can see how Husayn can be from your prophet - a blood line, but I can't see how he could be from his grandchild. Could you explain that to me?

I have had a look at some of the posts about the 12th Imam and the Sun behind the clouds and his occultation. As a follower of Jesus, I couldn't but help to think about the going away of Jesus the Messiah. HIs ascension was witnessed by a large group of people. See Lukes account in Acts chapter 1 7 He said to them: ‘It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.’ 9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 ‘Men of Galilee,’ they said, ‘why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.’ Jesus went into the clouds - a common analogy in Jewish thought of the time of God's presence. Where is Jesus the Messiah since his ascension? He is in God's presence sitting in a place of authority waiting to return. When Jesus the Messiah talked about his 'going away' he comforted his followers. There is a long discourse in John chapters 14, 15 and 16, where Jesus the Messiah talks about many things and one of them is his "going away" - here are a few verses: John 1425 ‘All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. 28 ‘You heard me say, “I am going away and I am coming back to you.” If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. John 16 5 but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, “Where are you going?” 6 Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. Jesus the Messiah says that his "going away" is good for his followers. He will go away and send the Holy Spirit to guide and support his followers. He will also send his peace so they will be able to live in a troubled world at peace and without fear. When Jesus the Messiah was on earth his was limited to being in one place at one time - like all of us. But his going away would mean that his spirit, the Holy Spirit. the Spirit of Truth would come to all Jesus' followers in every place and every time. It is true, Jesus the Messiah's going away means that now, today, each follower of Jesus has Jesus living in them through the Holy Spirit. Our ways and thoughts and actions can be controled and guided by Jesus himself! He went away, but we don't need to ask what is he doing. Each of his followers knows the answer to that question because he is living in them and they live in him.

The writters of the Stories of Jesus the Messiah were writing at a time when crucifixion was so common place that they didn't have to describe the process or the pain and shame it caused. Mark 15 recounts the event 24 And they crucified him. Dividing up his clothes, they cast lots to see what each would get. 25 It was nine in the morning when they crucified him. 26 The written notice of the charge against him read: the king of the jews. 27 They crucified two rebels with him, one on his right and one on his left. Here is another response as I thought about the suffering of the Messiah.

The suffering of Jesus the Messiah was not just on the cross but also in his unjust trial. The Roman soldiers mocked him Matthew 27 27 Then the governor’s soldiers took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers round him. 28 They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, 29 and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand. Then they knelt in front of him and mocked him. ‘Hail, king of the Jews!’ they said. 30 They spat on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. 31 After they had mocked him, they took off the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him. And John 19 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. 2 The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe 3 and went up to him again and again, saying, ‘Hail, king of the Jews!’ And they slapped him in the face. 4 Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews gathered there, ‘Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him.’ 5 When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, ‘Here is the man!’ I painted this picture in respone to these verses

Could you give me the reference for this quote? If the 'I' and the 'me' is God, this is putting Hussain almost as equal with God. It would seem that you are introducing a kind of bi diety.

I'm not sure where this fits into the life of Jesus the Messiah. Karbala is quite a distance from Palestine where Jesus spent his ministry. Yes it is good to share the life of a person we love. Recognising the extent of his love for us makes me overflow with thankfulness and rejoicing. How do I see his love demonstrated it is in his self humbling and self giving even to the point of suffering, death and martyrdom. Mark 10 Shows us that Jesus the Messiah saw his humiliation, servant atitude and death as a means to an end. whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.’ The death of Jesus the Messiah paid a price, a ransom, so we could be free from the clutches of fear, death and the evil one. His love was so vast, sometimes I wonder what my love is in return.

Thanks for this - I will read it and the other artical.

This is a really useful comment you have made. I appreciate you reaching out to me in this way, may you be blessed as you seek my blessing. Your comment shows that the understanding of Injil and Gospel or New Testament is different in Muslim theology and Christian theology. Christians have never seen 'The Gospel' as a book or message given to Jesus to pass on to his followers, in the way the Qur'an is explained in Muslim understanding to have been 'given' or 'passed down'. The reason is that Jesus the Messiah, himself, is the Word of God. He came down among us from God as the living presence of the message and action of God among people. Looking at Jesus the Messiah his miraculas birth, his life and teaching, his sacrificial death and powerful resurrection culminating in his assencion to heaven with a promise of his return as Judge in Power, all these things are God's message to us. All these things demonstarte God's action of love to redeem and rescue a lost humanity. A man was walking in the deasert and fell down a dry well. The more he tried to get out the more desparate he became. Suddenly there was a noise above him and a man looked down. "I can see you need help" he said. and threw down a book to him - 'How to escape from dry wells' However, the more he read the book and tried to do the ideas the more he realised that he couldn't do the things in the book and his situation got worse. Some time passed and he heard another noise. This time three people looked down at him. We can see you need help they said together. One of us is very strong, another is very gentle and the other very brave. The brave one tied a rope around his waist and the strong one and the gentle one lowered him into the hole. When the brave one reached the man he tied the rope around the man and the strong one and the gentle one lifted him out. Just then the sand around the hole fell in and the brave one was buried and died. The gentle one and the strong one started to dig and after some time they lifted the body of the brave one out. The gentle one breathed into him and the dead body became alive! What rejoicing there was that the man had been rescued and the three friends were reunited.

Hasani - Thank you for this insight and for your careful links with the 'original' and the 'new'. Yes Jesus the Messiah spoke Aramaic (and most probably Greek and Hebrew too) The translation you have posted has many similarities in ideas and concepts to the text we use in English today. It is clear that any translation misses out on the richness of the original language. It is not just Aramaic and Arabic which have many depths of meaning. All languages are hard to translate. I would suggest that although Jesus may have taught the prayer in Aramaic the writers of the Injil wanted as many people as possible to understand the prayer and the teaching of Jesus the Messiah. So, they translated it into Greek which was the language of the people. Translation is really important Because God wants to speak to us in our heart language - no language is 'God's language', rather all languages are gifts from God to be used for his praise and glory. So as we end the prayer with a song of praise, which most probably was added later, we can know God rejoices to hear our worship in our mother tongue. For to God belongs the kingdom, all power, and glory, now and forever more!

The prophet in the Hebrew Bible thought about the representive who would suffer and saw this person as going forward to receive the ultimate sacrifice. Isaiah 504 The Sovereign Lord has given me a well-instructed tongue, to know the word that sustains the weary. He wakens me morning by morning, wakens my ear to listen like one being instructed. 5 The Sovereign Lord has opened my ears; I have not been rebellious, I have not turned away. 6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting. 7 Because the Sovereign Lord helps me, I will not be disgraced. Therefore have I set my face like flint, and I know I will not be put to shame. We see here how there is a willingness to accept the forthcoming suffering, knowing that God would ultimatly honour this willing sacrifice. It is interesting that as Luke tells the story of Jesus the Messiah going to Jerusalem for the last time he uses this phrase Luke 9 51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem. It is as if Luke is drawing a parallel between these two passages.

https://saednews.com/en/post/imam-hussain-the-blood-of-allah-and-his-uprising The story of the last days of Hussain reflect a recognition of his forthcoming fate and martyrdom.

There are places in the Hebrew Bible where Suffering is seen as one person suffering in the place of others. Isaiah 534 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. This passage describes a representative suffering and experiencing pain and affliction for the sake of others. Notice how many times the word "our" is used. God puts the sins of those who have left the straight path on this representative. Instead of the sheep becoming the sacrifice this representative is wounded for the straying sheep. They can then receive peace and healing.

Yes, Thank you for this! It is interesting how this story can be read from a Shia perspective. I wonder in the Shia narative who the Vineyard owner is? The traditional understanding by the followers of Jesus is that the Vineyard Owner is God who sends the prophets, who are rejected and he eventually sends his "Son" who is killed.