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Logic1234

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  1. Salam; At least you now have known the position of your scholars on Taqaiyyah of Prophets from that ridiculous post of mine. Thank you!
  2. Salam! After listening to first 30 minutes of this lecture, I have taken out following points from his lecture. Since Kamanpoori then went into discussing narrations, so I thought to discuss that part separately. Here are his key arguments in his first 30 minutes lecture: 1. Accusation of taqiayyah (in deen & aqeedah) came most notably by ghulat. 2. Quran only permits taqaiyyah for civilians e.g., verses 2:45, 3:28, 2:195, 16;106 etc. 3. The statement of Imams didn’t agree with the concepts which were coined later like ilm ul ghayb, divine appointment, infallibility etc. 4. It is an accusation that Imams deceive people by telling lies out of taqiyyah because they are not supposed to do the taqiyyah at all. Example verse 33:39. Imams & scholars also comes under this verse as well as other verses 2:159-160 are evidence that even the scholars cannot do taqaiyyah. 5. Feeling or experiencing fear is OK but to act on that fear & conceal guidance is a sin. I am going to address all these points in my response Insha Allah. Let me first start with presenting the similarity of these ideas with what I have heard from the nawasibs. Ibn Taimiyyah for instance, came with the following ideas: Taqiyyah can only be done in front of the Kuffar, not before a Muslim (even against tyrant Muslim Rulers) Whilst practicing Taqiyyah, one cannot tell a ‘LIE’ but must remain silent. Here is what Ibn Taimiyyah wrote in the commentary of verse 3:28: The verse (3:28) is not only an exception but also a restricted exception. Not only is it forbidden to be used against Muslims but it prohibits lying to others. What it means is that if you oppose certain conduct and you are in a situation where condemnation would endanger Islam or the Muslim community you can keep silent but must avoid lying. 1. Ibn Taymiyah, Minhaj, Vol. 1 p. 213 2. Ibn Kathir, Tafseer of verse 3:28 This is just one example of gross misunderstanding of the term taqaiyyah. Not only Quran refutes these conjectures but hadith as well. Lets see what verse 3:28 is saying: 3:28) Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. (Yusuf Ali) One can see that the conjectures coined through this blessed verse are false, there are no verses in Quran which mentions these conditions. Then there are no sayings or practice of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that stipulates these conditions. It is an open challenge for all to bring the evidence from Quran or from Hadith in support of these two conditions. Having said that, I am beginning to address the points raised in the lecture by Kamanpoori. The very first point I need to start with is the usul set by Kamanpoori i.e., the taqaiyyah is only permissible for common people. Prophets, Imams & Scholars are forbidden to practice taqaiyyah. I will try to refute this “usul” so that each & every point I have noted above can be refuted. Kamanpoori referred couple of verses in support of his claim. 33:39) (It is the practice of those) who preach the Messages of Allah, and fear Him, and fear none but Allah. And enough is Allah to call (men) to account. (Yusuf Ali) Interestingly, this is the exact argument presented by a Mufti of Sipah e Sahaba Pakistan. By referring this verse, Kamanpoori asserted that since Prophets and Imams have no fear that’s why they cannot/don’t practice Taqiyyah. Lets first see two logical positions with respect to the fear of life: Fearing ones life, when one loves this world. Such a person literally fears every tyrant, who can take away his life. Fearing ones life, for the sake of Allah. That means to save ones life, rather than foolishly giving it away since this brings no benefit to Islam. Such a person only fears Allah in the real sense and is not afraid of tyrant Kings/Rulers. We believe that Imam Ali (عليه السلام) never practiced Taqiyyah due to a fear of Umar Ibn Khattab or all those who fled battlefields. No, certainly not. But he practiced Taqiyyah, when it was not in the interest of Islam to start fighting to get his ‘right’ back. Our belief is also this that not even a single believer (Momin) is allowed to practice Taqiyyah due to fear of his life in literal sense. It is Haram. i.e. we practice Taqiyyah, when our lives are in danger, while we believe that our lives are “Ammanah” of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), who doesn’t want us to foolishly lose our lives. It is like suicide, which is Haram. But Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) orders us that in situations, where giving away one’s life serves no benefit to Islam and endangers a Muslim’s life and property, then it’s obligatory to hide the truth or to a lie and in this regard, the story of the people of Kahf best proves this. Now since Kamanpoori divided the believers into groups, we must see some verses which he failed to cite in his first 30 minutes of lecture. 72:13) ‘And as for us, since we have listened to the Guidance, we have accepted it: and any who believes in his Lord has no fear, either of a short (account) or of any injustice. Note the point “any who believes in his Lord has no fear (faman yo’min berabbehe fala yukhaf). And now look at the following verse too: 10:62) Lo! verily the friends of Allah are (those) on whom fear (cometh) not, nor do they grieve? In his lecture, Kamanpoori said it is perfectly normal to feel or experience fear. He gave the example of Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) experiencing fear but the above verse categorically states that the Awliya of Allah do not fear nor do they grieve. Now prophet Musa's (عليه السلام) fear was not because of the magic of magicians which could have cost his beloved life, but it was because he feared that his death would bring a great loss to the interests of Allah’s religion. Unfortunately, the literal minds of these reformists are unable to understand the differences between literal and figurative expressions. So Kamapoori believes that Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) feared the magicians and that’s why he stated that feeling or experiencing fear is OK but to act on that fear and conceal guidance is sin. This experiencing fear itself goes against the verse 33:39 which he himself quoted as well as the verse 10:62. Now coming to the question, did any Prophet practiced taqaiyyah? The very first example came in mind is of our Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). This is a fact that can be found in all and all the classical works of Ahle Sunnah/Shi’a or non Muslim Scholars. For example, Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti records: Ibn Abbas said: ‘The messenger of Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) remained concealed for years, showed nothing of what Allah revealed on Him, till Allah revealed {Therefore declare openly what you are bidden}which means show your matter in Makka because Allah perished those who mock at you and mock at Quran, and they were five persons. (Tafseer Dur al-Manthur, Volume 5 page 100 Surah 15 Verse 94) Although the revelations had already begun onto Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) but concerns from certain people made him to remain conceal for few years. If that was not Taqqiyah then what was it? The second example is of Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) who practiced taqaiyyah and told a lie. One can read the story of how Ibrahim (عليه السلام) broke the idols in Shia/Sunni tafseer books. “Once, it was the time of annual festival in the town and according to their custom, Namrud, the King, went out of town with all his people to celebrate the day. Prophet Ibrahim did not accompany them but stayed behind. “ According to Ibn Kathir, Ibrahim (عليه السلام) lied to people: “When the people of Ibrahim went out to celebrate their festival, they passed by him and said, `O Ibrahim, are you not coming out with us’ He said, `I am sick.’ [While he was not actually sick]‘” Ibrahim (عليه السلام) also, when at night, saw the stars and said: ‘This is my lord’(6:76), Imam Fakhruddin Razi under its commentary records: “He peace be upon him was ordered to do Dawah for Allah, his status was of one who is forced to say kufr and it is known that when someone is forced it is permissible to say kufr, Allah almighty said ‘{not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith}’ if it is permissible to say kufr for saving one person, surely it is worthier to say kufr to save a group of rational people”. The third example is of Prophet Musa (عليه السلام) who practiced taqaiyyah for years. Once Firon accused Musa (عليه السلام) for being amongst the Kafireen (disbelievers) yet Musa (عليه السلام) did not negate it and the Sunni scholars have commented that it was not the case since Musa (عليه السلام) had been leading life among them in Taqiyyah. We read in Quran: [Shakir 26:18-19] (Firon) said: Did we not bring you up as a child among us, and you tarried among us for (many) years of your life? And you did (that) deed of yours which you did, and you are one of the ungrateful. Most relevantly, Imam Fakhruddin Razi states: “He (Firon) slandered or misunderstood His (عليه السلام) matter, because he (عليه السلام) was living amongst them under Taqiyyah, surely kufr is not possible to be committed by prophets.” Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti also records in Tafseer Durre Manthur, Volume 6 page 402: When the Coptic informed that Musa killed a man, Pharaoh issued an order: ‘Find Musa and kill him as he has murdered one of our people’. The people who were searching for Musa said: ‘Let us search for him in the streets because Musa is not good at recognizing the streets.’ When Musa was in the street a man came and told Musa-‘The Chiefs are taking counsel together about thee, to slay thee: so get thee away, for I do give thee sincere advice…He therefore got away therefrom, looking about, in a state of fear. He prayed O my Lord! save me from people given to wrong-doing.’ When he was in the streets. An angel came to him riding on a horse with a spear. When Musa saw him, he came forward and prostrated to him. The (angel) said: ‘Do not prostrate to me, but follow me’. Hence, he followed him and he directed him to Midian. Next example is Prophet Ya’qub’s (عليه السلام) advise to Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) to adopt taqaiyyah by keeping his dream secret from his brothers. “Relate not your vision to your brothers, lest they should arrange a plot against you.” and Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) did so. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has evidenced in his glorious book that when a Prophet fears becoming the victim of the evil machinations of others, he is permitted to adopt Taqiyyah. In this regards we have one Prophet ordering it, and the other acting upon it. I think these evidences from Quran are sufficient to puncture the arguments of Kamanpoori. Instead of leaning towards the nasibi arguments, It would be far better for him to try to learn what is the actual Imamiyyah doctrine of taqaiyyah. His point about ilm ul ghayb, infallibility and divine appointment, tafweed etc need separate threads. What Kamanpoori said about these points was in reference to the belief of ghulat, so it is not my intention to discuss the position of 12er Imami shias on these subjects or it will further make this post lengthy. Wassalam,
  3. This means that probability emerges from reality. For instance, Existence is a reality, a necessary thing but that becomes possible at some point. Our journey is from uncertainty (possibility) to certainty (reality). Happening has nothing to do with certainty rather consciousness has something to do with certainty. For instance, are you certain that your life will continue to the next hour? Continuation of life to the next hour is what you understand as "happening". So unless "Consciousness" is not there, there will be no certainty whatsoever. So lets suppose, you are uncertain about the continuation of your life for the next hour, and you died after an hour. How would you become certain that you are dead? What would be the worth of someone's certainty if you remain uncertain about yourself? You must have died in certainty because one name of death is certainty. And that is only possible if you witness your own death and see your dead body too after your death. Means your consciousness must be there to become certain of your death. While your statement "everything happens with certainty" demands the continuous presence of consciousness everywhere, where something is happening. If there is no possibility, can the reality be ever known?
  4. Why you have placed three things in your question? Is there any difference between "you" & "nafs" in your mind?
  5. I want to know what is the surprise for you here? The secret birth of Imam of our time or his occultation? As for his secret birth, this should be not a surprise for those who are attached with Quran and history. Ibn Atheer al Jazari whilst writing on the life of Prophet Ibrahim ((عليه السلام)): دخلت السنة التي ذكروا حبس نمرود الحبالى عنده إلا أم ابراهيم فإنه لم يعلم بحبلها لأنه لم يظهر عليها أثره، فذبح كل غلام ولد في ذلك الوقت، فلما وجدت أم ابراهيم الطلق خرجت ليلا الى مغارة وكانت قريبة منها فولدت “In the year that the Courtiers had referred to, Nimrod ordered that intelligence be kept upon all pregnant women, but no information was ascertained on the mother of Prophet Ibrahim ((عليه السلام)), as they had no knowledge that she was pregnant, she portrayed no [outward] signs of pregnancy. At that time whichever boy was born was executed by Nimrod, when the mother of Ibrahim (عليه السلام) began to feel labour pains, she went into a cave at night, that was nearby and Ibrahim was born…” Tareekh Kamil, Volume 1 page 31 We also know that, during the time that Prophet Musa ((عليه السلام)) was born, Pharoah saw a dream, and his courtiers also advised him that a child would be born from the Banu Isra'il, a child that would end his reign. Applying the policy of Nimrod, Pharoah issued an edict that all new born babies were to be killed. Furthermore, spies would enter homes and touch the stomachs of women to determine whether on not they were pregnant. If a woman was pregnant, the order was to murder the unborn child. Yet Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made the pregnancy of the mother of Musa (عليه السلام) a secret, so much so that her midwife had no knowledge of this pregnancy. On this issue the comments of Ibn Kathir are of interest: فلما حملت أم موسى به، عليه السلام، لم يظهر عليها مخايل الحمل كغيرها، ولم تفطن لها الدايات “When the mother of Musa (عليه السلام) fell pregnant, she did not portray the signs of pregnancy that are present in other women, and the midwives were unable to ascertain that she was pregnant”. Tafseer Ibn Katheer Volume 3 page 380, Surah Qasas, Verse 7
  6. This is exactly what nawasibs say. I am surprised to see you are using the same argument. So lets first settle the case of Ja'far al-kadhab (assuming that it might be your source): "So the ark floated with them on the waves, towering like mountains. And noah called out to his son, who had separated himself from the rest: “O my son! Embark with us, and be not with the Unbelievers!” The son replied: “I will betake myself to some mountain. It will save me from the water.” Noah said: “This day nothing can save from the Command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy!” And the waves came between them, and the son was overwhelmed in the flood. Then the word came forth: “O earth! Swallow up thy water, and withhold thy rain!’ And the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: “Away with those who do wrong!” And Noah called upon his Lord, and said: “O my Lord! Surely my son is from my family! (ahli), and Thy promise is true. And thou art the Justest of Judges.” He [Allah] said: “O Noah: He is not of thine family; for his conduct is unrighteous.” (11:42-46) These verses establish that the mere fact of possessing a physical lineage to a Prophet does not establish infallibility, or that one has been purified in the same way as that Prophet. As such, Ja’far al-Kadhab’s lineage to the Prophet (s) means nothing here. A person may have such lineage and be thoroughly evil, and Ja’far al-Kadhab was one such person. The fact that he did not know about the birth of Imam al-Mehdi (عليه السلام) does not indicate that Imam al-Mehdi (عليه السلام) was not born; rather, it is a sign that, because of Jafar’s impiety, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) kept this birth a secret from Ja’far, as He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) kept it a secret from the ruling Abbasid dynasty. Factors such as the lack of knowledge, the character of pathetic people, and the ill intentions of the ruling class, lead to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) keeping the birth of his representative a secret. Usul-e-Kafi carries a tradition on this: To the ruler, Imam Abu Muhammad ((عليه السلام)) died without bearing a son. He distributed the Imam’s (as)’s property, and the people who did not deserve it, took it. The ruler is looking for him, every where people are running around asking for him. No one should be associated with them, or tell them anything. The name you are asking, if told, the search would become easier. Therefore, be afraid of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and don’t ask about the name of the Imam (عليه السلام). Usul alKafi, Volume 1 page 330 Shaykh Majlesi decalred it Sahih in Mirat al-Uqool, Volume 4 page 5 Though with a weak chain, there is another tradition which states: Ali-bin-Qais narrates from a military policeman that even I have seen Seema (slave of Jafar) in Serman Rai; he broke the door of Imam Hasan AlAskari’s (as)’s house. A man appeared from inside with an axe in his hand. The man asked Seema, what are you doing at my house? Seema replied Jafar thinks that your father (عليه السلام) died without giving birth to any children, but if this house was yours, then I should return. Saying that, Seema left the house. Ali-bin-Qais says that immediately after this, one of the servants came to us, and I asked him about this. He asked me, ‘who told you about this?’ to which I replied that a military police man told me, the servant replied, pretty soon, nothing shall remain secret from anyone. Usul alKafi, Volume 1 pages 331-332 These two narrations contradict the narration that is used by Nawasibs, and proves that individuals such as Ja’far al-Kadhab are liars and deceivers. This narration’s serve as evidence that Jafar’s narration was wrong, since he was a puppet in the hands of the Abbasid rulers and wanted to divide the Shi’a.
  7. Imam al-Sajjad ((عليه السلام)) said:

    “The light of the Imam in the hearts of the faithful is more brilliant than that of the brilliant day star.”
    Al-Kafi, vol. 1, p. 276.

  8. Imam al-Sajjad ((عليه السلام)) said: “The light of the Imam in the hearts of the faithful is more brilliant than that of the brilliant day star.” Al-Kafi, vol. 1, p. 276.
  9. I can see assumptions all over this one. a) Satan was a Jinn-e-Kamil. b) He was very near to God. These are totally wrong. If he would have attained the "Kamal" (Perfection), he would have not made the mistake of disobeying God's command. Does worship (a mere exercise) has anything to do with purification? Munafiqeen worship throughout their lives, Khawarij were famous for their abundance of prayers & fastings. Why God has allowed Prophets & Imams to guide us? Is it like giving an exam? Where are the examiner? Are there angels watching on you that if you tried to cheat, they will through you out of the examination hall? So if this life is test, but test of what? a) Are you true in your words or not. Do you really mean what you testify? "O God! we worship only you" Are you really true in this statement? "There is no one worthy of worship except Allah", Do we remained steadfast with this claim? b) There may be different ways to do an act. Which one of us has performed act in a best manner & Which one of us has performed best of the deeds! You know most of the misguided ones assumes themselves as they are the guided ones. No body wants misguidance here. Everyone wants guidance whether it is guidance from Truth Almighty or guidance from Falsehood (Shaytan). And it has been clearly pointed out by God that look Satan is your clear enemy! so take him as your enemy. Don't take him as your guide. He has provided the door of repentance for everyone to return to Him, to take back Him as guide whenever one realizes that he has wronged himself. So Hurr (عليه السلام) was from among the forces of Yazid before the night of Ashura. He realized, repented and finally taken God as his guide by strongly grasping the urwatul wuthqa. I don't want to get involved in that story. بَلِ اللّهُ يُزَكِّي مَن يَشَاء If you just focus on the outcome, you will get the guidance. What happened in the end? God chosed him & taught Adam (عليه السلام) the words, for repentance, guided him. 20:121 Then they both ate of it, so their evil inclinations became manifest to them, and they both began to cover themselves with leaves of the garden, and Adam disobeyed his Lord, so his life became evil (to him). 20:122 Then his Lord chose him, so He turned to him and guided (him) 2:37 Thereupon Adam received words [of guidance] from his Sustainer, and He accepted his repentance: for, verily, He alone is the-Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace. What is the purpose of creating mankind? To worship God in true letter & spirit. Satan (every lie & every falsehood) fits into the purpose of creation for two main reasons: a) To provide for mankind teachings, guidance & repentance as you have seen from the case of Prophet Adam (عليه السلام). b) The following verses as shared by brother earlier on this thread. We would not know whether we are truthful or not, if there is no Satan.
  10. Why we only need to follow A Mujtahid? Why not we follow many mujtahideen at the same time? Or why not we take opinions from many scholars & act on the one which looks good to us?
  11. Perhaps you can explain to me the difference between "Taoubah" & "Toubatan Nasooha".
  12. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) grant us the toufeeq of "Toubatan Nasooha". ( تَوْبَةً نَصُوحًا)
  13. Stoning to death itself is another ijtihad. He deemed mut'ah as zina.
  14. Hadith of Sahih Muslim is quoted above Can you read his words: فَلَنْ أُوتَى بِرَجُلٍ نَكَحَ امْرَأَةً إِلَى أَجَلٍ إِلاَّ رَجَمْتُهُ بِالْحِجَارَةِ And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (Mut'a), I would stone him (to death). Both the texts are taken from your source i.e., https://muflihun.com/muslim/7/2801
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